I don't know what is happening

[Pmarcos3]

Hi, I am doing a save with FC United of Manchester(I changed the name only), is my fourth season and my first 2 seasons were baaaad, I avoided relegation by some points, but now in the end of the third season I ended up in playoffs(I lost in semi finals). The thing is, I wanted to play a counter attacking football based on the "Art of counter attacking" article, the problem is I don't have the players to make it to play a 4-1-4-1(I don't have LM and RM, I have 2 AML, 2AMR, and my defense suck), so I went with what I had-have: 4-1-2-3(My knowledge tells me it's a 4-3-3 but meh, FM16 says otherwise.

The thing is, when I started winning this third season, I thought that it was because my Counter-Attacking football was actually working, I got scored very little but scored enough(1-0, 2-1), and my theory of it working got even stronger after the middle of the season, when I suppose every team started playing against me defensively so I stopped scoring. I am honest here, the problem when you do a tactic and it doesn't work like you would like, but it still works, makes it harder to fix any problem, I realized after some games watched 50%(I can't end a full game I am sorry), that I wasn't playing a counter attacking football, but more of a possesion one, work slowly into the box and score with a through pass. So, when everything started going wrong(I stop winning, and stopped scoring) I tried to fix the counter attacking problem, and it went horribly wrong, so I surrendered and waited for my tactic to work again, and at least it gave me a playoff semi, which isn't bad for a team fighting for survival. So this post is to know what exactly should be happening, I want you guys to help me, in your mind, what kind of game should my team be playing if I have this:

The lineup:

The Instructions:

I can explain every position, and what I think they do in the counter-attacking system, but it looks like they are not playing like that, I suppose they are playing a little defensively, not attacking by lot, but still having the possesion of the ball and trying to break the other team with low tempo and passes. So what do you think about the tactic...

oh and PI are almost the same, the only difference is I ask the wingers(IF) to shoot whenever they can, and my keeper to go with short passing.

Thanks for the help!

[grimslaa]

I'd initially look more at your team instructions to try and create the counter style you're looking for as some of them will create a possession based style of play by default. For example 'Play Out Of Defense', 'Work Ball Into Box' and 'Prevent Short GK Distribution' suggest that you're looking to keep the ball rather than to break quickly. By this I mean a team looking to play on the counter is unlikely to prevent the opposition GK playing shortly as they want to encourage them to bring the ball forward to create space to exploit (think Juventus away at Bayern in the CL). Additionally, if you want to get the ball forward quickly working the ball in to the box is also counterproductive.

It may be worth you removing some of those instructions and seeing how that effects your play in the next game.

[herne79]

If you want to play counter attacking football, there are 2 important things to consider:

1) Any tactical settings you set will be ignored when a counter attack happens. The AI takes over and temporarily makes your team very attacking to take advantage of the counter. Therefore, any tactical settings you make (such as Team Instructions) will only be used by your team when you are NOT counter attacking - which is actually most of the time.

2) In order to take best advantage of this, and improve the chances of your team creating counter attacks, you need to set your formation and player roles effectively. You DO want teams to come onto you while you sit deep in order to exploit the space they leave behind for a counter. You DON'T want to leave more than one or two of your players in very advanced positions while you are defending, otherwise the opposition won't commit enough men forward for you to spring a counter attack.

That's a very basic overview. If you want to know more, you need to read this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/444680-The-Art-of-Counter-Attacking.

[Pmarcos3]

The problem is that I can't change the formation because my wingers can't play as lm/rm, so maybe focus in the possesion game? that it looks like it's working, and keep the counter mentality, what should I do to get better in the possession game?

(Herne I actually already read that article, and 2 more articles of that guy(The offensive and possession ones)

[HUNT3R]

The problem is that I can't change the formation because my wingers can't play as lm/rm

If you want to pull the wingers back, just do it. I assume you're talking about their positional familiarity when you say they "can't" play there. If they have the attributes to do so, they'll be fine.

[loklokno123]

Try higher tempo /Pass into space

i find that playing Wingers as AMR/AML in FM16 isnt effective, maybe just becoz my system

For Counter Attacking System, i always put them as MR /ML (WM-A) with some PI

just depends on which type CA u are playing, i usually use DLP(S) as Lone Striker as he can be a pivot to supply to teammate

[Dr. Hook]

The problem is that I can't change the formation because my wingers can't play as lm/rm, so maybe focus in the possesion game? that it looks like it's working, and keep the counter mentality, what should I do to get better in the possession game?

(Herne I actually already read that article, and 2 more articles of that guy(The offensive and possession ones)

Well, you sort of need to decide one way or the other. If you want to keep your possession game then why change anything? You had success with it. What do you need to get better with on that? Seems like a playoff spot for a predicted relegation battler is doing very well. If it's counter attacking that you want just for the sake of wanting it then some of the advice here is good. AMs should drop back in the M strata to increase chances of launching a successful counter. Even if the "counterattack" isn't triggered, you want to exploit space going forward. So you'd need to drop the play out of defence PI, as you want your defenders passing more directly to start the attack. As you are using wide men, work ball into the box might hinder you also as it reduces crosses (and hit early crosses can be your friend here). If your wide men can get the ball into some space on a counter, you don't really want them slowing play down and looking for a pass if they can whip it in early to attackers. Besides that you are playing wider, so you want to take full advantage of that.

Also, just so you are aware, a counter mentality, if you don't get the counter attack happening will give you a slower, more patient style. So what was happening to you is that you weren't playing the counter, and so were seeing what you saw, if that makes sense.

[Pmarcos3]

At first I wanted to do a Counter, for the sake of wanting it, but I also want to advance with FC United, so I will go for the possesion game, I will use the tips of the article "The art of possession", I will use a Box to box, and an Adv playmaker in midfield, with a left IF, and a right Adv pm, and let's see what happens... I bought the best goalscorer of last season so i hope I can ascend this season (even though I lost my 4 star Cb amd 4 star Rb).

[Pmarcos3]

Copying the Art of Possesion tips lead me to ruin, I am 17 games without winning, is december I am in last , I tried going back to my previous formation but I am still losing! Help!

I have the third best goalscorer(23) from last season, the fifth with 15 goals of last season in my top 3, but I don't score! I always have the possesion 55-60% always, but I just don't score.

I am playin with AF, IF(aml), w(amr), adv playmaker(atk), central mid support, and ball winning mid defend, with a normal back four...

I am playing the same as the post above, and I tried 10 games of the art of possesion habing between 60-65% everygame but with no goal!

I don't know what to do, 17 matches without winning is just too much...

Thanks if anyone can help

[Jean0987654321]

Copying the Art of Possesion tips lead me to ruin, I am 17 games without winning, is december I am in last , I tried going back to my previous formation but I am still losing! Help!

I have the third best goalscorer(23) from last season, the fifth with 15 goals of last season in my top 3, but I don't score! I always have the possesion 55-60% always, but I just don't score.

I am playin with AF, IF(aml), w(amr), adv playmaker(atk), central mid support, and ball winning mid defend, with a normal back four...

I am playing the same as the post above, and I tried 10 games of the art of possesion habing between 60-65% everygame but with no goal!

I don't know what to do, 17 matches without winning is just too much...

Thanks if anyone can help

Well, mate. Your first mistake is to copy a tactic without considering your players. Cleon did not make the thread so people can just copy/paste a tactic. The tactic in that thread is more or less an idea on how you can create a possession tactic...

[Pmarcos3]

I actually didn't copied it, I adjusted it to my team, I didn't had a roaming PM, so I used a Adv playmaker with atk mentality, and used a dlf and not a false 9, I didn't copied it. I said "Copying the art of possesion tips" I didn't said copying the art of possession tactics. Sorry if You felt I said that... but in fact the tips he said worled in the sense that I had possesion, but my players couldn't score sadly...

[Dr. Hook]

I actually didn't copied it, I adjusted it to my team, I didn't had a roaming PM, so I used a Adv playmaker with atk mentality, and used a dlf and not a false 9, I didn't copied it. I said "Copying the art of possesion tips" I didn't said copying the art of possession tactics. Sorry if You felt I said that... but in fact the tips he said worled in the sense that I had possesion, but my players couldn't score sadly...

So you did achieve possession, but ran into the problem of having possession just for the sake of it, which is a fairly common problem we run into in this forum. You are getting lots of passes around the edges, holding the ball, but no one driving into the box to take a pass or open up space. With the three above I am not surprised. The DLF and F9 are essentially creative roles (the F9 more so) but both drop deep, while the AP is a creator who even with an attack duty will not make a habit of pressing forward to the goal. So, the question is, who in your system is pushing forward and giving you penetration in the area? You need someone or better, a couple of someone's who attack the goal so that your passers have someone to pick out to create chances.

[Draakon]

The problem is that I can't change the formation because my wingers can't play as lm/rm, so maybe focus in the possesion game? that it looks like it's working, and keep the counter mentality, what should I do to get better in the possession game?

(Herne I actually already read that article, and 2 more articles of that guy(The offensive and possession ones)

I play 4-1-2-3 with Ajax and currently we've been great in possession stats after 6 games into the season. Obviously, you have to keep in mind that this is Ajax we're talking about - we've well above other teams in Eredivisie tachnically, especially passing and first touch, so that obviously contributes a lot. You might try to recreate our tactics, and see where it gets you with your team.

GK-defend (short distribution to full-backs)

FBR-attack

DC-defend

DC-defend

FBL-attack

DMC-support (I used regista in this position, but now our best player is more suitable as DM)

BBM-support

AP-attack (close down more, roam from position)

AMR - here I've used different players, and all kinds of orders - W-attack, AP-support, IF-attack, depending on players on your disposal (close down more)

AML - Winger-attack (close down more)

ST - CFs or F9 (close down more)

TI: fairly wide, play out of defense, prevent short GK distribution, look for overlap

Mentality: control, flexible

Throw-ins: short

I played this tactics for a long time, but now tried to switch FB-s to attack and see what happens + add closing down orders to forward players. What I noticed is that we held a lot more possession and opponents had diffiulty getting ball forward. This might be because our FB-s are higher on pitch and we put opponents under pressure instantly, forcing a long ball and easily retain possession from there. Hence we look very well defensively despite fairly attacking formation.

What to keep in mind:

1) If you're stronger team and opponents are defensive, you get possession, but it's difficult to score. You can keep the ball, pass it over the box, but you're playing against parked bus more often than you like. You have to finish those chances you get, to force opponents take more risks, otherwise it might be 0-0 or unfortunate 0-1 for you.

2) With overlapping and wide play, you need to have a player to receive crosses. CF is a good option (if you have such a player). Or you might try combination of Winger and IF on opposing flanks (winger looking for cross, IF going into box to receive it). Playing wiht two IF-s makes middle of the pitch too crowded and your AP lacks space.

3) With possession you get more set pieces. You have to be able to use it. Tall DC-s are must have in corner situations (but also because they have to deal with high balls forward that you opponent plays because your pressure). Good set piece takers are also vital.