I'll send an SAS to the world

[Ifail]

wait so fls or cfs What support role you mean dfs?

[Jambo98]

I decided to keep trying with "SAS"..........sorta

With 7 games to go in that seaoson i posted stats on, i was watching a game on extended. Twice in the opening 14 mins i observed Sturridge (who was by then playing as DLF(s), shoot from miles out, despite having lots of space to run into, and great passing options.

As the second one sailed over the bar, i muttered to myself that if he did that again, he was coming off. 7 mins later, same scenario, he blasts it wide from 25 yards. Immediately hooked for Aspas, and spends the rest of the season on the bench not playing a minute. He picked up an injury in training litterally before the last match, and out for 4 months so likely cant even punt him in the summer!

So my "SAS" is now "Suarez and Stevan" - Signed Jovetic on loan and i really like his attributes and PPMs. Need to figure out his best role along with Suarez, but i am sticking with a front 2 and trying to get 50 goals from them!

Also sticking with a Enganche in behind, in teams against "non top 4" sides its deadly, i blow them away. Need to figure out how to play the big 4, as tey completely destroyed me with my Sweeper/Complete Wing backs/Enganche/Front 2 set up. Really want to keep the front 2, so can see the Enganche moving back to a CM slot as an AP(s).

Also, Mignolet is horrid. I signed Diego Alves in January as i was so fed up of him. managed to eventually punt him in the summer for about £4million.

[Ackter]

I gave up after the Suarez injury.

[juventinu]

Can you make a striker score in FM 2014? Sure? It will not blow your mind, but he will score. Can you make 2 strikers score? Not really, at least I can't. Can you make Sturiddge score? No, no, a thousand times no. My God he is atrociuos, the long shots ppm kills him, I mean, he is a freacking cancer for this ME.

[Ackter]

Sturridge was league top scorer for me before Suarez got injured.

[Jambo98]

I still hope i can make 2 strikers score. I would settle for 50 with 30 from Suarez, 20 from Jovetic. Just depends if i can get his role right. So far its 7 between then in 6 games so off to a decent start

[Jambo98]

Inability to convert one v one chances is absolutely killing me at the moment. Just watched Suarez get through on the keeper 4 times in one game and convert none of them. In an average 90mins i would say my players miss at least 2.5 one on one with the keeper chances. I can create the chances nicely with my tactic, but even with world class strikers, cant seem to covert them.

Anyone had luck with specific PPMs helping? Ive tried "rounds the keeper" a few times but never seen it once pulled off in the ME which is a sad reflection!

[Ackter]

Places shots is fantastic.

[Jambo98]

Jovetic has that and has missed a couple for me, but no where near as many as Suarez. Its a bit annoying when some of the best strikers in the world miss so many one v one chances but i suppose its balanced against the fact that teams shouldnt really get as a many chances like that as i do.

Going to swap Jovetic and Suarez so Jovetic places as my AF(a) and gets the main one v ones, perhaps he can finish those and Suarez can conjure up other goal types from a support role.

[juventinu]

Sturridge was league top scorer for me before Suarez got injured.

.

I don't believe you:)

[Ackter]

I don't really care.

[juventinu]

I don't really care.

You answered

I was being ironic m8. I'm sure he did. Any info on role/instructions?

[jeid2000]

Sturridge finished first season as top scorer for me with Suarez second and they've continued that into season 2.

[jase19]

I've always had an issue with the 4-3-1-2 tactic or Diamond 4-4-2. Regardless of the club, my assistant always complains about being overrun in midfield and I tend to go on streaks of winning/losing, instead of being consistent.

[deserter]

Its a bit annoying when some of the best strikers in the world miss so many one v one chances but i suppose its balanced against the fact that teams shouldnt really get as a many chances like that as i do.

Luis Suarez was scoring once every 94 minutes for Ajax, but then had a "bad" spell. His minutes per goal ratio almost doubled for two seasons, then last season it got to 124 minutes, and this season it's finally back to 84 minutes.

I distinctly remember him missing a lot of easy chances in his first 1½ seasons at Liverpool and you would wonder how on earth had he scored so much in Holland if he's such an average finisher? He himself at the time said that he was just very lucky at Ajax to score so much.

Would it have been completely unfathomable for Suarez to go back to scoring once every two games this season?

[Jambo98]

Luis Suarez was scoring once every 94 minutes for Ajax, but then had a "bad" spell. His minutes per goal ratio almost doubled for two seasons, then last season it got to 124 minutes, and this season it's finally back to 84 minutes.

I distinctly remember him missing a lot of easy chances in his first 1½ seasons at Liverpool and you would wonder how on earth had he scored so much in Holland if he's such an average finisher? He himself at the time said that he was just very lucky at Ajax to score so much.

Would it have been completely unfathomable for Suarez to go back to scoring once every two games this season?

Not sure i understand your point to be honest?

If its in relation to what i said it wasnt about how many Suarez scores in the game. Its the fact that he on average was missing at least 2 clear one v one opportunities per game. Is it unthinkable for him to miss a few of these? Not at all. Is it unthinkable for him to miss 2 per game - Yes. Its barely thinkable for Emile Heskey to miss that many....

There can be little doubt that Suarez has improved as a player over the last 18 months. His finishing has improved without doubt. He is more composed in front of goal and possibly most important, he is getting far better service this season which probably changes your mental approach when you do get a chance.

I would actually say that adding Coutinho to any team would add 5 goals a season to that teams main striker. He is that good in the final 3rd:brock:

[Torskus77]

Not sure i understand your point to be honest?

If its in relation to what i said it wasnt about how many Suarez scores in the game. Its the fact that he on average was missing at least 2 clear one v one opportunities per game. Is it unthinkable for him to miss a few of these? Not at all. Is it unthinkable for him to miss 2 per game - Yes. Its barely thinkable for Emile Heskey to miss that many....

There can be little doubt that Suarez has improved as a player over the last 18 months. His finishing has improved without doubt. He is more composed in front of goal and possibly most important, he is getting far better service this season which probably changes your mental approach when you do get a chance.

I would actually say that adding Coutinho to any team would add 5 goals a season to that teams main striker. He is that good in the final 3rd:brock:

I'm not certain what the other guys ramble was about either to be honest.

However I think you would be surprised at the goal per ccc ratio even with the best strikers in the world. They miss more than they score, the hardest skill is getting in the positions in the first place.

[Ackter]

With the exception of Messi, who's insane, it tends to be around 20-30% conversion rate for the very best finishers.

[Jambo98]

Depends what you class as conversation rate - most are done on "chances" to "goals".

I am talking specifically about being put through one on one with the keeper. For starters, most strikers likely do not get anything like one a game of those type of chance. Maybe one ever 2 - 3 games for most strikers.

[Ackter]

It's pretty much the same ratio. Someone posted the stats in GD recently.

[Jambo98]

Really? So Suarez or Aguero miss 4 out 5 chances when put through clean on the keeper? Not seeing that, and i watch a lot of football........

[Ackter]

1 goal in 3ish tends to be for the very top strikers.

[Jambo98]

Be interested to see those stats, since all the stats i see are around conversion % and scoring %.

Also, a fair difference between 1 in 3 and 1 in 5. Suarez would have to be classed as "very top" - pretty clear cut for the top 4 at the moment i should think. Messi, Ronaldo, Aguero and Suarez. They are "tier 1" strikers. Falcao and Diego Costa might have been close but both fallen away, and Ibrahimovic and Lewandowski there or there abouts.

[Ackter]

Messi is in tier 1 on his own tbh. His %s are way ahead of everyone else.

[Jambo98]

Also worth noting that i understand SI have admitted one v ones are not right, and are looking at this. I read a comment in GD from one of the SI team pretty much alluding to this and the issues with too many corners in the game.

Anyhow, after digressing, i think im also giving up on the "SAS challenge". Not enjoying this ME one bit if im honest. Not able to make teams or players perform in the way i want, despite many hours trying.

Im sure someone can make 2 strikers work well, just not me. Likewise cant make Enganche do as it says on the tin sadly.........

[deserter]

My point was that this season's Suarez form would have been hard to predict. He hasn't been one of the top finishers until now. At least that's how I see it.

So I wouldn't expect the researchers to up his finishing, composure, free kicks, long shots and whatnot before he has proven himself. You can't do that proactively.

You should then see this years FM Suarez as a representation of the real Suarez of the past couple of seasons, not the phenomenal Suarez we have seen recently, thus it's unrealistic to expect FM Suarez to score like he has in real life. I'm sure that he'll be better at it in the next edition though.

[thebadger1976]

1 goal in 3ish tends to be for the very top strikers.

Hang on, are you actually claiming that a typical world class striker will miss ~67% of one-on-ones with the keeper, or have I misunderstood?

I thought it was widely accepted (possibly even admitted) that SI nerfed the strikers in this game so they score less? This is the first time I've seen someone claim that my top quality striker's penchant for smashing the ball into the keeper's midriff when clean through is an accurate portrayal of real-life football at the highest level.

[Torskus77]

Hang on, are you actually claiming that a typical world class striker will miss ~67% of one-on-ones with the keeper, or have I misunderstood?

I thought it was widely accepted (possibly even admitted) that SI nerfed the strikers in this game so they score less? This is the first time I've seen someone claim that my top quality striker's penchant for smashing the ball into the keeper's midriff when clean through is an accurate portrayal of real-life football at the highest level.

I'd imagine it to be about right, there are stats for pretty much everything nowadays, so I guess with a bit of googling you could actually find out.

[Torskus77]

Done a quick look, without going to far in to it, 1 in 3 seems a bit generous to be honest.

[Ackter]

If you want clinical, you need to be Frank Lampard. Scores 80%~ of his best chances* (couldn't find stats from 1 on 1s, just from "unmissable" positions).

Now that would be a great tactical experiment, trying to recreate how he plays.

*2012/13 season

[thebadger1976]

There's a conspicuous lack of linkage to any of the stats that are meant to back up this claim. Are the stats that people are looking at based on actually one-on-ones, where the striker is clean through with only the goalie to beat? I'm happy to be proved wrong, but I have a feeling that they probably relate to just 'good chances' or something.

[thebadger1976]

If you want clinical, you need to be Frank Lampard. Scores 80%~ of his best chances* (couldn't find stats from 1 on 1s, just from "unmissable" positions).

Now that would be a great tactical experiment, trying to recreate how he plays.

*2012/13 season

Frank Lampard is a top class goalscorer (albeit from midfield), so should arguably fall into the category of the 'very best finishers' you mentioned. So I'm not quite sure how you square his 80% conversion rate with your previous claim that 20-30% is the norm for this calibre of player.

[Ackter]

Most of his goals come from getting on the end of great moves - its his movement that's world class, not his finishing.

[Ackter]

Take Adebayor as an example - every single one of his goals in 2012/13 came from an "unmissable" chance (of which he scored 26% iirc). Any kind of difficulty to the shot and he missed it.

[thebadger1976]

This article says that a top EPL striker converts around 30-35% of their total shots, so the claim that a top player only converts 20-30% of one-on-ones is clearly nonsense.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11662/9024527/striking-stats

[Ackter]

Prove it with stats, then

[thebadger1976]

Most of his goals come from getting on the end of great moves - its his movement that's world class, not his finishing.

I don't mean to be rude, but that sort of argument really sounds like clutching at straws

[thebadger1976]

Prove it with stats, then

I just did? :confused:

[Ackter]

Have a look at his goals. Some come from long shots in great positions, others come from being in the perfect position to score.

[Ackter]

I just did? :confused:

No, you didn't. You made an assumption based on stats for a completely different thing.

[thebadger1976]

No, you didn't. You made an assumption based on stats for a completely different thing.

If a top striker converts around 30% of total shots, it cannot also be true that they only convert 20-30% of shots when clean through against the keeper.

[thebadger1976]

I mean, basically you've already cited evidence in favour of my interpretation with the Lampard thing.

And I'm still yet to see any of these supposed stats in favour of the 20-30% conversion of one-on-ones. What data were people looking at?

[Ackter]

If a top striker converts around 30% of total shots, it cannot also be true that they only convert 20-30% of shots when clean through against the keeper.

Why can't it be true?

[thebadger1976]

Because it would imply they have a greater chance of scoring from a harder position.

[Ackter]

Or the same​ chance

[Cleon]

If you want facts thebadger then for last season in the EPL;

Jay Rodriquez has the best clear cut chance conversion rate (in the below example), as he converted 46% of his clear cut chances in the 2012/2013 season. Victor Anichebe and Djibril Cisse have both converted 33% of their clear cut chances, Hugo Rodallega has converted 30% of his clear cut chances and Andy Carroll has converted 25% of his 4 clear cut chances.

http://eplindex.com/33893/worst-strikers-front-goal-1213-stats-analysis.html

If you want more proof though of actual stats 2 minutes searching on Google will give you all the stats you want/need as there is a mediocre/best analysis too and many others for different leagues etc.

[thebadger1976]

Or the same​ chance

Well 20-30% is not the same as 30%. But in any case, this is also highly unlikely, unless you think that it is just as easy to ping the ball in from 30 yards as it is to slot it past the keeper from 5 yards.

[Ackter]

Remember this is an average across all strikers across quite a time span.

Incidentally, there's a lot more of the goal to aim for from 30 yards than there is from 5

[thebadger1976]

Okay, looking at some stats from the same site shows the following clear cut chance conversion rates:

Danny Welbeck: 88%

Jay Rodrigeuz: 86%

Ricky Lambert: 71%

Romelu Lukaku: 63%

http://eplindex.com/47486/clear-cut-finishing-analysis-suarez-aguero-giroud-rooney-compared.html (you can sort by conversion ratio by clicking the column)

There are eight EPL players with clear cut chance conversion rates of 50% or more, and 12 with 40% or more

I think this is enough to rebut the claim that a top finisher only converts 20-30%

Thanks for proving me right lads

[Cleon]

Okay, looking at some stats from the same site shows the following clear cut chance conversion rates:

Danny Welbeck: 88%

Jay Rodrigeuz: 86%

Ricky Lambert: 71%

Romelu Lukaku: 63%

http://eplindex.com/47486/clear-cut-finishing-analysis-suarez-aguero-giroud-rooney-compared.html (you can sort by conversion ratio by clicking the column)

There are eight EPL players with clear cut chance conversion rates of 50% or more, and 12 with 40% or more

I think this is enough to rebut the claim that a top finisher only converts 20-30%

Thanks for proving me right lads

You've not been proved right

Remember that the clear cut chances come from his total chances. So someone can have a 30% all shot conversion rate but have a much higher/lower conversion of his clear chances.

If we take Welbeck for example he has a 33% conversion rate yet has 88% for clear cut chances.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2538583/You-think-Luis-Suarez-sharpest-shooter-Premier-League-Well-doesnt-make-four-heres-why.html

Not a single player in the EPL has over a 40% conversion rate. In fact the highest is Yaya Toure with 37%. But on average the figure is between 20-33% for the EPL as a whole.