The SI Sports Centre - DISCUSSION THREAD

[aderow]

Offside trap. To use or not to use....

[Cleon]

Offside trap. To use or not to use....

Are you playing really high up and attacking? If so then yeah it could be useful just make sure you have a defence who has high decisions, teamwork, anticipation, positioning and concentration to get the best out it.

[aderow]

Are you playing really high up and attacking? If so then yeah it could be useful just make sure you have a defence who has high decisions, teamwork, anticipation, positioning and concentration to get the best out it.

I try not to play but it seems that since I have switched to this style of play, it has pushed me higher up the pitch.

[Cleon]

I try not to play but it seems that since I have switched to this style of play, it has pushed me higher up the pitch.

How are your results now? Are they still the same or have they picked up?

[Kingbogo]

Was reading the thread and was inspired by the WM tactic. I gave up downloading tactics a few years ago, would try and make my own. Read forums get ideas and try and adapt them. It was always in FML when i tried to have tactics that were different to the ones that everyone used, and was fairly successful

So far on fm12 (first save is always Aberdeen) Aberdeen 2 seasons, struggled to make an impact there (442), will try again after the transfer patch, had a dodgy season with Aston Villa (451), then 4 and a half seasons with Malaga - great save loved that one (4231) have also started a Sampdoria and a Dortmund save.

After reading the thread, and the WM tactic was inspird to try it out. So i started a Chelsea save, mostly i figured i would have the attacking options and a bit of depth and would only require minimal investment. I have based it on the system you highlighted with Santos with the 2CM's and 2 DM's. have only played a few games in pre-season so still tweaking. One that was made lampard play a bit better was changing him to a advanced playmaker (att) but will see how it lasts. Have bought Affaley in for 1.7m and was excellent his first game on the right. May experiment with switching wingers. Again the usual tweaks with long shots etc, reduce some crossing. Will continue to tweak, just need to decide who will be my first choice striker.

[Cleon]

Was reading the thread and was inspired by the WM tactic. I gave up downloading tactics a few years ago, would try and make my own. Read forums get ideas and try and adapt them. It was always in FML when i tried to have tactics that were different to the ones that everyone used, and was fairly successful

So far on fm12 (first save is always Aberdeen) Aberdeen 2 seasons, struggled to make an impact there (442), will try again after the transfer patch, had a dodgy season with Aston Villa (451), then 4 and a half seasons with Malaga - great save loved that one (4231) have also started a Sampdoria and a Dortmund save.

After reading the thread, and the WM tactic was inspird to try it out. So i started a Chelsea save, mostly i figured i would have the attacking options and a bit of depth and would only require minimal investment. I have based it on the system you highlighted with Santos with the 2CM's and 2 DM's. have only played a few games in pre-season so still tweaking. One that was made lampard play a bit better was changing him to a advanced playmaker (att) but will see how it lasts. Have bought Affaley in for 1.7m and was excellent his first game on the right. May experiment with switching wingers. Again the usual tweaks with long shots etc, reduce some crossing. Will continue to tweak, just need to decide who will be my first choice striker.

I hope it goes well, keep me updated

[Cleon]

Grrr I keep seeing new ideas and I'm looking at trying to dominate possession without taking anything away from the attack. So I've been playing for the last few hours with this shape;

Don't worry I'll still be posting about the 3-1-2-3-1 and its defence. But I just got side tracked and started playing with this shape and I now love it

[Steve Odom]

Grrr I keep seeing new ideas and I'm looking at trying to dominate possession without taking anything away from the attack. So I've been playing for the last few hours with this shape;

Don't worry I'll still be posting about the 3-1-2-3-1 and its defence. But I just got side tracked and started playing with this shape and I now love it

It does create a great defensive shape in my opinion. Are you going to update both? Because I really am intersted how this works out.

[Cleon]

It does create a great defensive shape in my opinion. Are you going to update both? Because I really am intersted how this works out.

I guess I could yeah, it wouldn't be too confusing for people? I guess not because it's actually evolved from the W-M and the 3-1-2-3-1. It's basically the W-M with the 2 outer strikers and the AMC's pushed back.

[Steve Odom]

I guess I could yeah, it wouldn't be too confusing for people? I guess not because it's actually evolved from the W-M and the 3-1-2-3-1. It's basically the W-M with the 2 outer strikers and the AMC's pushed back.

If you give them appropriate headers, then I see no reason why it should be confusing. It would be harder for you, but then again, it's up to you. My opinion? I would use the 32221, not the 31231 in my saves.

[Cleon]

If you give them appropriate headers, then I see no reason why it should be confusing. It would be harder for you, but then again, it's up to you. My opinion? I would use the 32221, not the 31231 in my saves.

Luckily I'm at the end of the season so I think I will use the 32221 for the last 2 games then use it for a full season. And sure I'll add a section to the thread about it at first chance I get

[Steve Odom]

Luckily I'm at the end of the season so I think I will use the 32221 for the last 2 games then use it for a full season. And sure I'll add a section to the thread about it at first chance I get

I am looking forward to it. I consider it a tactical invention wich might become the new 4231 in real life, as popular as it is effective. Your midfield would become extremely strong, while not giving away defensive strength. You're even potent in attack in a lot of different ways. This will be one we'll have to keep an eye on!

[Cleon]

I am looking forward to it. I consider it a tactical invention wich might become the new 4231 in real life, as popular as it is effective. Your midfield would become extremely strong, while not giving away defensive strength. You're even potent in attack in a lot of different ways. This will be one we'll have to keep an eye on!

I ended up using it by mistake. It was world cup year in my save and I had my full first team and subs called up for international duty. I think I had a total of 39 players away. Which mean't I had to use my youths and I didn't have a AMC. So I decided to use an extra DMC as my defensive was weak due to usin 16 year olds.

[Steve Odom]

I ended up using it by mistake. It was world cup year in my save and I had my full first team and subs called up for international duty. I think I had a total of 39 players away. Which mean't I had to use my youths and I didn't have a AMC. So I decided to use an extra DMC as my defensive was weak due to usin 16 year olds.

The big question here is: "How did it work out?"

[Cleon]

The big question here is: "How did it work out?"

It was 17 games ago now and I think I've won 16 drawn 1. But I was having simliar results before but I don't know, I just seem to retain possession more natural now.

[Steve Odom]

It was 17 games ago now and I think I've won 16 drawn 1. But I was having simliar results before but I don't know, I just seem to retain possession more natural now.

Sounds logical to me, more defensive width means more passing options, you're probably sacrificing some attacking bite along the way, but every formations has it's strengths and weaknesses.

[LlamaZA]

Hmm

Interesting look formation there Cleon. I've theorised an almost inverse formation to that with 3 DCs, 2 WBs, 2 MCs, 2 AMCs, and a striker. Problem is the complete lack of WBs in the game. Unlike you I have an abundance of AMs so your version wouldn't work for me But I can see where it would be strong, and possibly act as a 'big European night' alternative to the 31231.

[Cleon]

Hmm

Interesting look formation there Cleon. I've theorised an almost inverse formation to that with 3 DCs, 2 WBs, 2 MCs, 2 AMCs, and a striker. Problem is the complete lack of WBs in the game. Unlike you I have an abundance of AMs so your version wouldn't work for me But I can see where it would be strong, and possibly act as a 'big European night' alternative to the 31231.

I have about 10 natural AMC's its just they were all away on International duty haha. But what I've been doing is retraining to MC's and they score bucket loads. Mt DLP has scored 19 in 42 games which isn't bad considering he's still 18 and was only supposed to be a back up player. But he's made the position his own for next season.

Do you have the Brazilian leagues loaded? thousands of good wingbacks out there.

The formation you describe I had one simliar on FM10 but that used AML/AMR instead of AMC's. Funny though as I was actually reading the thread this morning http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/170052-The-Project-Syrup-amp-Honey-Revisited-A-strategy-for-playing-FM10

How do you find the 3 flat DC's working? I don't think they work properly as they don't go out wide to cut off the threat.

[aderow]

How are your results now? Are they still the same or have they picked up?

Like I said before. The defense has been good. My offense is doing its job as well so things are going great

[dz47]

Will be interested to follow how the new formation works for you Cleon. My Over 35’s team uses this formation IRL!

[raphael.sanni]

I just wanted to ask how do you guys set up three at the back away from home, and how to defend against a 4-4-2, im having alot of trouble defending against fast breaks and my players cannot seem to finish the chances created,.

[Cleon]

I just wanted to ask how do you guys set up three at the back away from home, and how to defend against a 4-4-2, im having alot of trouble defending against fast breaks and my players cannot seem to finish the chances created,.

I play the same way as I do at home. How have you got the back 3 set up? The same as me or 3dc's? I have my right back and left back man mark both the strikers. This allows the DC to not feel as pressured during a game and allows the fullbacks to track back and do the hard work. The DC then becomes the player how is floating around pick up knock ons, flick'ons etc.

If you're getting caught out on fast breaks I presume you are playing attacking and have the d-line pushed up? You could reduce both so that if you do lose possession you're not hit on the counter as often. Or make it so that you have players back in the right areas should this happen.

[raphael.sanni]

I play the same way as I do at home. How have you got the back 3 set up? The same as me or 3dc's? I have my right back and left back man mark both the strikers. This allows the DC to not feel as pressured during a game and allows the fullbacks to track back and do the hard work. The DC then becomes the player how is floating around pick up knock ons, flick'ons etc.

If you're getting caught out on fast breaks I presume you are playing attacking and have the d-line pushed up? You could reduce both so that if you do lose possession you're not hit on the counter as often. Or make it so that you have players back in the right areas should this happen.

I also play the same as you however my d line was set to normal, but im mostly hit on the break for corners free kicks, however how can i dominate possession, and also how can i supress the threat of the opposition full back and wide midfielders

[Cleon]

I also play the same as you however my d line was set to normal, but im mostly hit on the break for corners free kicks, however how can i dominate possession, and also how can i supress the threat of the opposition full back and wide midfielders

Well the answer to fullbacks and widemidfielders is explained on the last page or so of this thread. Man mark them with your wide players. If you're getting hit on counter from corners and freekicks then you're over commiting men forward when you have them. Try settings the setpieces up properly based on player positions and areas that your likely to countered from.

[raphael.sanni]

Well the answer to fullbacks and widemidfielders is explained on the last page or so of this thread. Man mark them with your wide players. If you're getting hit on counter from corners and freekicks then you're over commiting men forward when you have them. Try settings the setpieces up properly based on player positions and areas that your likely to countered from.

Thanks for the help cleon, but last question

How do you set up away from home, without losing possession, and being bombarded by opposition pressing

[Cleon]

Thanks for the help cleon, but last question

How do you set up away from home, without losing possession, and being bombarded by opposition pressing

If your tactic is good enough to begin with it should play the same home or away regardless. Possession is soo overrated you only have to look at the 900+ passes thread. Yeah they have a lot of passes but they only just manage to win games 1-0 or draw. Because they take the focus away from attack and pass the ball around in useless areas of the pitch. While it's true that the opposition can't score if you have the ball, it's also true you won't score if 99% of that possession is inside your own half.

If the opposition are pressing you high then they should be leaving massive holes for you to exploit somewhere on the pitch. Do you watch games on full? Do you try and take advanatge of the gaps? Do you try and exploit the weakness of the formation you are playing against? Every single formation no matter who the opposition are has problems against another formation. So your own tactic will cause the opposition a lot of problems if you set it up right. The easiest way to releave pressure from your own side is to attack them and push them back and make em defend.

[LlamaZA]

Just want to share a story of my first game of the new season with Chelsea, it's not worth a thread on its own and I think it fits somewhere in here.

As shown above I have created two tactics that should be easily switched between in games depending on my opposition, a standard 4231 and the new-age 31231 (I'm still training up my perfect DC/DM's but for now Luiz and Matacchio (spelling?) are doing as DMs).

So my first game was against Newcastle, according to my scout they generally play 442, so I decided to start the game with a back 4 so that I'm not over run in the centre.

As it turns out they started with a 352 formation (3 flat bands), so still a double striker formation. I was slightly worried about losing the midfield battle, but took solace that I should dominate them on the wings. The ML/R ended up playing very deep to mark my wings so it was effectively a 532/352 hybrid.

As I'm watching the game I notice their striker pulling deep (so probably playing as a DLF(s) or some such), thus he is picking up the space between my DC's and MC's, Luiz was doing a good job of coming off his line to pick up the player but he was always doing it reactively (i.e. as the ball was played to the DLF). I reacted by switching to the 31231, now Luiz was closing down the space the DLF was taking advantage of perfectly, he was always there and in the way.

In the course of all this I took a 3-0 lead, and Newcastle seemed to react by playing a flat 532 formation, but now the DLF had pushed forward and wasn't dropping deep at all. I recall watching the game and seeing two strikers on top of my DC, obviously I reacted by reverting back to my 4231 formation in order to match up to them in that position.

I think Cleon would've reacted differently to me in this situation, but I find that having multiple formations with versatile players allows me to react in a much more direct way to the game as it unfolds.

In contrast. in the Charity Shield game against Spurs (who played their standard 4411) I switched between 4231 and 31231 either with Luiz specific marking the AMC in the 4231 or zonal in the 31231. This was done just to see the relative differences on defence between them. With the specific marking Luiz stayed deep on attack and pushed up on defence which is almost how Mascherano plays the position for Barcelona. This would only work if there was a player in the AMC slot.

[Cleon]

Just want to share a story of my first game of the new season with Chelsea, it's not worth a thread on its own and I think it fits somewhere in here.

As shown above I have created two tactics that should be easily switched between in games depending on my opposition, a standard 4231 and the new-age 31231 (I'm still training up my perfect DC/DM's but for now Luiz and Matacchio (spelling?) are doing as DMs).

So my first game was against Newcastle, according to my scout they generally play 442, so I decided to start the game with a back 4 so that I'm not over run in the centre.

As it turns out they started with a 352 formation (3 flat bands), so still a double striker formation. I was slightly worried about losing the midfield battle, but took solace that I should dominate them on the wings. The ML/R ended up playing very deep to mark my wings so it was effectively a 532/352 hybrid.

As I'm watching the game I notice their striker pulling deep (so probably playing as a DLF(s) or some such), thus he is picking up the space between my DC's and MC's, Luiz was doing a good job of coming off his line to pick up the player but he was always doing it reactively (i.e. as the ball was played to the DLF). I reacted by switching to the 31231, now Luiz was closing down the space the DLF was taking advantage of perfectly, he was always there and in the way.

In the course of all this I took a 3-0 lead, and Newcastle seemed to react by playing a flat 532 formation, but now the DLF had pushed forward and wasn't dropping deep at all. I recall watching the game and seeing two strikers on top of my DC, obviously I reacted by reverting back to my 4231 formation in order to match up to them in that position.

I think Cleon would've reacted differently to me in this situation, but I find that having multiple formations with versatile players allows me to react in a much more direct way to the game as it unfolds.

In contrast. in the Charity Shield game against Spurs (who played their standard 4411) I switched between 4231 and 31231 either with Luiz specific marking the AMC in the 4231 or zonal in the 31231. This was done just to see the relative differences on defence between them. With the specific marking Luiz stayed deep on attack and pushed up on defence which is almost how Mascherano plays the position for Barcelona. This would only work if there was a player in the AMC slot.

I would have dealt with it different but that's because our playing styles differ drastically. I respond to the player rather than the formation which seems to be your style. Both styles work great it's just a case of finding the method you prefer. I think your post is great at highlighting a different approach than mine and showing how how we both react to in game situations. But go about correcting things at the different end of the spectrum. Our approaches couldn't be more different yet end results and what we achieve would have a simliar outcome

[raphael.sanni]

Erm, is anyone else having problem with passing in defence, im in a champion league game currently and the pass completion is at 57%, anyone got some tips to help me out, as i prefer my team to build moves from the back.

[Cleon]

Erm, is anyone else having problem with passing in defence, im in a champion league game currently and the pass completion is at 57%, anyone got some tips to help me out, as i prefer my team to build moves from the back.

Use the analysis tab and look at the passes your defenders do and why there getting so low. Remember that your keeper is on the defence passing stats so if he's hoofing it upfield then the % will naturally be lower.

[Kingbogo]

Well 6 games into the league with Chelsea and the WM tactic, and it is going well. 6 wins from 6 , 22 goals scored 7 conceded. Biggest match was against Man City, won 2-1. They scored on a break just before half time. They played a 4231 with 3 amc's rather than wingers, so after they broke like that i got fullbacks to mark AMLC/AMRC allready had a a DM on the central AMC and my wingers on their fullbacks. I seemed to dominate but Man City dangerous on break. Champ league game against Napoli was my toughest match, a tight 2-1 win away, scored winner in injury time.

Overall i really like it so far, but i find i tend to ride my luck at times defensively, having good players really helps, fullbacks especially. The times i almost get caught out are when a fullback launches a big diagonal ball up to the striker and lands between full back and centre back, or a rotate my backup LB in he gets caught out and makes mistakes. It is great counter attacking. I really like it when it works out of defence and you see this 'box' dominate and pass through the midfield up to the striker. My winger tends to get a few offsides, and inside forward hasn't scored yet but not too worried as so far most games i have scored 4.

Pre-season i had a couple of tough matches, Dortmund and Atlethico. A 4321 narrow and a 343, draw and a loss (loss came about more to being down to 10 men for 40 mins). More tweaking involved when playing agaisnt non standard or less popular formations. Enjoying playing a different formation to usual

[Cleon]

Well 6 games into the league with Chelsea and the WM tactic, and it is going well. 6 wins from 6 , 22 goals scored 7 conceded. Biggest match was against Man City, won 2-1. They scored on a break just before half time. They played a 4231 with 3 amc's rather than wingers, so after they broke like that i got fullbacks to mark AMLC/AMRC allready had a a DM on the central AMC and my wingers on their fullbacks. I seemed to dominate but Man City dangerous on break. Champ league game against Napoli was my toughest match, a tight 2-1 win away, scored winner in injury time.

Overall i really like it so far, but i find i tend to ride my luck at times defensively, having good players really helps, fullbacks especially. The times i almost get caught out are when a fullback launches a big diagonal ball up to the striker and lands between full back and centre back, or a rotate my backup LB in he gets caught out and makes mistakes. It is great counter attacking. I really like it when it works out of defence and you see this 'box' dominate and pass through the midfield up to the striker. My winger tends to get a few offsides, and inside forward hasn't scored yet but not too worried as so far most games i have scored 4.

Pre-season i had a couple of tough matches, Dortmund and Atlethico. A 4321 narrow and a 343, draw and a loss (loss came about more to being down to 10 men for 40 mins). More tweaking involved when playing agaisnt non standard or less popular formations. Enjoying playing a different formation to usual

I'm glad it seems to be working for you.

Out of all the formations posted though the W-M should be one of the better ones defensivley due to the 2 DMC's. Do you use man marking to cut off the threat of the oppositions attacking players?

[Fabian Jonsson]

I'm planing on setting something similar to your new tactic, Cleon, up for the second season in the Premier Leauge with my Charlton team. I finished a decent 10th the first season up, so I've been able to strengthen the squad some during the summer. I bought several DM/MCs that are of very high calibre (very close to top team starting material), so I want a tactic that enables me to slot in as many of them as possible. What I don't have is many good wingers though. I have several players capable of playing in the AMR/L positions, but they are not natural there (at least not most of them), and I haven't really been getting much out of them. I was therefor thinking about trying out a 3-2-2-1-2 with the two strikers moving out towards the flanks in posession and the AMC (maybe set as IF/A) seeking to spearhead the attack. Hopefully, all that movement can open up some space for my new and very talented playmaker.

Having played with these kinds of tactics for a while now, Cleon, do you spot potential problems defensively with this setup?

[Cleon]

I'm planing on setting something similar to your new tactic, Cleon, up for the second season in the Premier Leauge with my Charlton team. I finished a decent 10th the first season up, so I've been able to strengthen the squad some during the summer. I bought several DM/MCs that are of very high calibre (very close to top team starting material), so I want a tactic that enables me to slot in as many of them as possible. What I don't have is many good wingers though. I have several players capable of playing in the AMR/L positions, but they are not natural there (at least not most of them), and I haven't really been getting much out of them. I was therefor thinking about trying out a 3-2-2-1-2 with the two strikers moving out towards the flanks in posession and the AMC (maybe set as IF/A) seeking to spearhead the attack. Hopefully, all that movement can open up some space for my new and very talented playmaker.

Having played with these kinds of tactics for a while now, Cleon, do you spot potential problems defensively with this setup?

3 defenders with 1 DMC can be tricky to get right and if you don't get it right then there can be massive problems defensivley. But the 3 DC's and 2 DMC's is naturally more stable to begin with and a lot easier to get right. There isn't much of a probelm against formations with this set up as its more solid than a back 4 and you end up with 5 defenders when not in possession.

[Fabian Jonsson]

Cool, will try it out.

I was thinking that I could try and set it up so that the 3 DC's + the anchor becomes a straight four (more or less) and that the remaining DM + MCs + AMC becomes a triangle in front of the defense (thus channeling the opposition out towards the flanks). Is that roughly what you go for (with the ST taking the role of the AMC), or do you use more of a 2-3-1 shape in front of the back four?

[Cleon]

Cool, will try it out.

I was thinking that I could try and set it up so that the 3 DC's + the anchor becomes a straight four (more or less) and that the remaining DM + MCs + AMC becomes a triangle in front of the defense (thus channeling the opposition out towards the flanks). Is that roughly what you go for (with the ST taking the role of the AMC), or do you use more of a 2-3-1 shape in front of the back four?

In possession the tactic is more of a 3-1-2-1-3 due to how attacking I like to be. But without possession it's more of a 4-2-1-2-1

[Fabian Jonsson]

Ah, ok. I'm usually a bit cautious and like slow build-up. Will probably try to get it to work like some sort of 4-3-1-2 in defense, although I think it will be hard to accomplish. If I get some interesting results, I might post them here.

[Cleon]

Ah, ok. I'm usually a bit cautious and like slow build-up. Will probably try to get it to work like some sort of 4-3-1-2 in defense, although I think it will be hard to accomplish. If I get some interesting results, I might post them here.

I normally dominate the game fully. I end up with anywhere from 67% possession to 89% depending on the opposition and how they've set up. I actually do play a slow build up game but when we break, we break in numbers. In Brazil you have to play that way really as most teams have some kind of a back 6 due to playing a flat back 4 and 2 dmc. And a lot of teams have started dropping their MC's deeper aswell so sometimes I have a full team back to try and break down

Even if you don't have interesting results feel free to still post. Maybe someone will be able to offer advice

[Fabian Jonsson]

One final question before I decide whether or not I should go for that setup. You have your fullbacks on defend duty and I suppose you learnt to do that the hard way. Do you think it would be possible to "promote" one of them to a wingback on defend duty? I believe they are more prone to cross the ball, and my left back is pretty good at crossing (and my intended STr is pretty decent in the air). I thought it could work as nice complement to the more through ball oriented play I normally try to do.

[Cleon]

One final question before I decide whether or not I should go for that setup. You have your fullbacks on defend duty and I suppose you learnt to do that the hard way. Do you think it would be possible to "promote" one of them to a wingback on defend duty? I believe they are more prone to cross the ball, and my left back is pretty good at crossing (and my intended STr is pretty decent in the air). I thought it could work as nice complement to the more through ball oriented play I normally try to do.

Yeah it should work fine. Just be wary though that if a fullback is caught out of position it can be costly. My fullbacks can cross good too but I'd rather them just defend and that play is focused through the midfield rather than the channels. But I see no reason why it wouldn't work for you

[Fabian Jonsson]

Cool. I might end up setting him as fullback as a default setting and switch to wingback if/when I believe it could be usefull to have his crosses, but it's nice to know I at least have the option.

[ramie]

Great thread here, been slowly reading most posts. One quick question (I'm currently using your Santos V-M tactic as a base), the only real problem I'm having is that the movement of my front three is limited. They rarely dribble, and I have a talent dribbler, great PPM's and good finisher. Is there any tweaks I could use to get him running past players?

I have lowered mentality to def/normal

Passing on long

run with ball often

run from deep sometime

roam

low CF

Thanks

[Fabian Jonsson]

Oh, another thing, Cleon. Do you have your "DMs in defense" (DM - DM/S and MC - DLP,S) as a screen in front of the back four (i.e. low closing down), or do you have them help the fullbacks out on the flanks? My AMR/Ls usually don't track back enough to help with defense when the opposition overload the flanks...

[Kingbogo]

I'm glad it seems to be working for you.

Out of all the formations posted though the W-M should be one of the better ones defensivley due to the 2 DMC's. Do you use man marking to cut off the threat of the oppositions attacking players?

In pre-match i will assign players to mark opponents depending on formation, my 2 wide forwards mark the fullbacks. i have the DMRC man mark the AMC or ST depending on formation. I found against a 442 using my 2 fullbacks to mark the 2 strikers worked better i then had my DC and 2 DM's to mop up (that was tougher to play against liverpool away playing a 442 than Man City with a 4231 narrow). Again I change things every game i come to, slight changes home/away depending on the strength of opponents. Overall it is coming on, will always require tweaking though

[Cleon]

Great thread here, been slowly reading most posts. One quick question (I'm currently using your Santos V-M tactic as a base), the only real problem I'm having is that the movement of my front three is limited. They rarely dribble, and I have a talent dribbler, great PPM's and good finisher. Is there any tweaks I could use to get him running past players?

I have lowered mentality to def/normal

Passing on long

run with ball often

run from deep sometime

roam

low CF

Thanks

Give him mixed passing, rwb often, rfd often, roam from position and a high CF. My players are the highest dribblers in the league. But the key point is to make sure they get good supply so they can dribble. If your players are lacking in amount of dribbles attempted then ensure he is getting the ball often to begin with.

[Cleon]

Oh, another thing, Cleon. Do you have your "DMs in defense" (DM - DM/S and MC - DLP,S) as a screen in front of the back four (i.e. low closing down), or do you have them help the fullbacks out on the flanks? My AMR/Ls usually don't track back enough to help with defense when the opposition overload the flanks...

Anchor man defend, DMC Support, DLP defend and CM attack. But I will mix things up if things aren't working in a game though. As I watch most games on full I'm quite a reactive manager and make lots of changes during a game if needed.

Well you could get ur wide players to either mark the oppositions wingers or the fullbacks. If they mark the fullbacks it should push them back and make them defend more and cut off a bit of the attacking threat the possess.

[Cleon]

In pre-match i will assign players to mark opponents depending on formation, my 2 wide forwards mark the fullbacks. i have the DMRC man mark the AMC or ST depending on formation. I found against a 442 using my 2 fullbacks to mark the 2 strikers worked better i then had my DC and 2 DM's to mop up (that was tougher to play against liverpool away playing a 442 than Man City with a 4231 narrow). Again I change things every game i come to, slight changes home/away depending on the strength of opponents. Overall it is coming on, will always require tweaking though

That's actually what I do with my fullbacks, have them mark the 2 strikers instead so the DC is unassigned and can mop up any mistakes. It's really the best way of dealing with a front 2. And yes most unconventional formations do need the extra attention to detail as you have to respond to any changes the AI might take.

[ramie]

Give him mixed passing, rwb often, rfd often, roam from position and a high CF. My players are the highest dribblers in the league. But the key point is to make sure they get good supply so they can dribble. If your players are lacking in amount of dribbles attempted then ensure he is getting the ball often to begin with.

Thanks il play around with it. One more, how can I improve the supply he gets? I have him set as target man and to feet already

[Cleon]

Thanks il play around with it. One more, how can I improve the supply he gets? I have him set as target man and to feet already

Make sure he's not too advanced and makes space so he can get involved in the game. For the supply to him make sure he's available for the pass and that players can easily pass to him if needed. You do this by altering mentality and try and get them all playing quite close to each other.

[ramie]

try and get them all playing quite close to each other.

I think you hit the nail on the head there! I was playing quite wide, I'll change that then. I'm now playing him in a AMC role, but I think I'll revert him back to the STC position and give a much lower mentality.Thanks Buddy, I'll report back after a few games.