The SI Sports Centre - DISCUSSION THREAD

[mitjamvp]

hey everyone. Although my post count is quite low compared to others i have been FM fanatic for quite a while now (since 05).

After long term games with Atletico Madrid, Nk Krka, Napoli and Lechia Gdansk on previous FM games i decided to pick VFL Osnabruck on the latest edition. Why? I dont know. I just prefer to build teams rather then using world class clubs. In the past i have been doing both: downloading brilliant tactics from this forum, tweaking them and making my own aswell. In this game i am trying to create tactic that woud not only allow me to get results but would also let my team play creative and spectacular football. Since day one at the club i wanted to use 3 defenders but i also didnt want to play with just one striker as it never gave me the right results. I brought Osnabruck from german third division to being german Bundesliga champions, also winning the Europa League on one ocasion. Still my tactic is far from perfect.

season / scored / conceded:

1 (3rd division) ?

2 (2nd division) 74 / 46 (finished second, 1st placed Gladbach 85 /36)

3 (Bundesliga) 72 / 56 (finished 3rd, simmilar amount of goals scored, quite good achievement with a very simmilar attacking players, Bayern 80/30)

4. (Bundesliga) 94/46 (1st, Yaya Sanogo and Aboubakar - main reason for so many goals, 2nd placed Bayern 82/28)

5. (Bundesliga) 77/46 (1st, Bayern 3rd 62/30)

all those 5 seasons i used the same formation, i tweaked a bit wingers instructions, but the rest of it was mostly the same. Strategy: Defensive - to keep our ball possesion as high as possible. Less then 5% of the teams (in europe and all german leagues) have had more ball possesion then my team. Since the start of this season i started using overload as it seems players chase the ball and opponents more energetic. Weird reason

Tactic:

Players roles:

GK - sweeper keeper - Ter Stegen - he may concede lots of goals but if it wasnt for him we surely wouldnt be where we are. Probably he is the main reason why we dont concede even more. Irrerplacable. He is set to sweeper keeper because i play with a very high defensive line.

DC - limited defender-defend -Stefan Bell - great player, who i never found being talked about on this or any other forum. Surely one of top 5 young german defenders. tall, strong, and has reasonable pace. Highl reccomended to everyone. Why LD - to be honest i dont know how else to really set him. He does well in his role but he probably could do better. Theres always room for improvement. If i change his instructions i should then also change fullbacks.

DL/R - FB-defend - Jagos Vukovic, Dennis Vreven(Regen) - both players whos stats dont look like they should be playing for german champions but they are actually great. Jagos joined our team while we were in second division and became our most consistent performer.

MCL - advanced playmaker attack - Tolga Cigerci - not a bad player at all but i still think i could find a better role for him, Creates chances but seems to take too many long shots.

MC - CM support - David Ilic (regen) - great player for the money i spent on him. Good ball passer, creative and has a good off the ball movement. When i searched for a player like him, search filter only found Xavi (eventhough Xavi is much better player).

MRC - BWM defend - Johannes Geis/Kara -Geis is originally a rightback but i really wanted him to play in the midfield as he doesnt really lack in any aspect of the game. Good defensively, his passing is good, his strength and pace are ok aswell.. Kara is a bit different as he is really strong player who can outjump anyone. He lacks a bit acceleration though. Probably the best role for these 2 would be in DM (Kara as an anchorman and Geis as a DM or deep lying playmaker but theres no way i can make it work. If i dont pla with 3 cms there just not enough pressure on the opponent in the midfield and they start with their through balls to pacy strikers.

AMR/AML - W-support - Di Maria/Sturridge/Reus - all three great players. Although they are set as wingers they cut inside as it seems that if they play as true old fashioned wingers they play too wide and dont help the midfield at all.

STR - Target man - Support - Vincent Aboubakar - physically brilliant striker with all his attributes 14+ (only jumping and stamina 14, everything else 16+) I chose TM role as his work rate and teamwork are 15/16. Composure 16, finishing 15 - what else would i need from a striker.

STL - Poacher - Yaya Sanogo - physically even better then above, fast as hell, teams top goalscorer, lacks a bit consistency. Compared to his partner up-front more selfish but he does play much closer to the goal. He is there to bang em in.

My problem seems to be same as with other managers who use 3 at the back (2 as fullbacks). How to defend against counter attacks, how to prevent through balls and how to defend against very fast teams.

One of solutions was to keep the ball as much as possible. It worked but still i hate it when i need tons of chances to score 1 goal when opponents gets a chance with every through ball they make.

I would love some help if anyone is that kind.

If you need some more informations just ask, college exams arent that important.

[Cleon]

Nice to see you having a go at creating your own tactic especially one with 3 at the back

My problem seems to be same as with other managers who use 3 at the back (2 as fullbacks). How to defend against counter attacks, how to prevent through balls and how to defend against very fast teams.

One of solutions was to keep the ball as much as possible. It worked but still i hate it when i need tons of chances to score 1 goal when opponents gets a chance with every through ball they make.

I would love some help if anyone is that kind.

If you need some more informations just ask, college exams arent that important.

First things first;

As you play defensive then you'll get more pressure as you have everyone behind the ball majority of the time. So as you'll be deep in your own half if you do lose possession then the opposition are always going to already have the ball in a dangerous area that can hurt your team. This is also another reason why you seem to need more than 1 chance to score yet the opposition always look dangerous. You're on the back foot always and while you have a lot of possession it's all in your own half so your team need high composure, workrate, determination and concentration. The mentals you need to play defensive are quite high as they need to be focused constantly.

If you want to score more then you'll need to create more good chances and have men committed to go forward and help with attacks.

I see that you've changed though now to Overload which is the same as gung'ho. As soon as you get the ball you look to go forward with the ball and will create more chances but a lot of them will be rubbish and poor chances due to the quality as the play is all rushed.

To get a back 3 to work like you want then you have to make sure the midfield fill the gaps between fullbacks and centrebacks. That's why I use either 1 or 2 DMC's. If they don't have protection of somekind then the centreback will get exposed due to the gap between him and the fullbacks. The midfield is crucial here for stopping quick attacks and winning the ball back. However if the DC doesn't have cover then this will always be a problem due to the shape you play, it's the downside of the shape.

Do you watch games in full? Do you have any screenshots of how your players are positioned and the oppositions when you get hit with a quick counter attack?

[Cleon]

Ok, I hope these images work the way I hope

Tactic Overview

Team Instructions

I have everything set to defaults, sometimes changing the role depending on the player in question but that's the way I would set up. I did have the AML with an attack duty but changed it to Support and I've now went 4 without defeat, albeit against easier opposition than Barca, Atletico Madrid and Sevilla so I'm not sure if the minor tactical tweak really done much.

PKM's below of 3 games I was disappointed with the performance of, defeats against Atletico Madrid and Athletic Bilbao and a draw away to Sporting where I felt we could have done better

Atletico Madrid - Home

Sporting - Away

Athletic Bilbao - Home

I've not forgot about this just not had time to fire FM up yet

[mitjamvp]

Nice to see you having a go at creating your own tactic especially one with 3 at the back

First things first;

As you play defensive then you'll get more pressure as you have everyone behind the ball majority of the time. So as you'll be deep in your own half if you do lose possession then the opposition are always going to already have the ball in a dangerous area that can hurt your team. This is also another reason why you seem to need more than 1 chance to score yet the opposition always look dangerous. You're on the back foot always and while you have a lot of possession it's all in your own half so your team need high composure, workrate, determination and concentration. The mentals you need to play defensive are quite high as they need to be focused constantly.

If you want to score more then you'll need to create more good chances and have men committed to go forward and help with attacks.

I see that you've changed though now to Overload which is the same as gung'ho. As soon as you get the ball you look to go forward with the ball and will create more chances but a lot of them will be rubbish and poor chances due to the quality as the play is all rushed.

To get a back 3 to work like you want then you have to make sure the midfield fill the gaps between fullbacks and centrebacks. That's why I use either 1 or 2 DMC's. If they don't have protection of somekind then the centreback will get exposed due to the gap between him and the fullbacks. The midfield is crucial here for stopping quick attacks and winning the ball back. However if the DC doesn't have cover then this will always be a problem due to the shape you play, it's the downside of the shape.

Do you watch games in full? Do you have any screenshots of how your players are positioned and the oppositions when you get hit with a quick counter attack?

quick SS..and i do watch games in full mode, just not every single one. I guess i should

after a great chance for us, goal for them....

[spur80]

Pfft posting Wednesday results in a die hard Blades thread eh?

As for the players closing down the same player, it might be a slight mentality clash which is making people play in the same kind of space. When you lose possession or from a restart or somehing pause the game and have a look at your players position, it'll give you a better idea.

You seem to be having some high scoring games I'm glad you like the attacking side of the tactic

Heh, I'm not from UK or a fan of Sheff. W ;-)

I just finished my second season and for a long time there was no doubt I would be champion of the championship (Won by 17 pts) Next, season in the Premier League.

I'm still struggling with the set up with the 4 main defensive players (FB's, DC and the DMC) to get them play like I want them too. What is your thought of changing the FB's to DC's? I would rather have space on the flanks than in the center.

In a way I'm trying to get my FB's to play like DC's, maybe it's possible to get your DC's to play more like FB's. I need to develop the 3-1-2-3-1 tactic to be more robust, since I will really be the underdog in all the games in the premier league since

the quality of my squad is at best mid table in the championship.

[Cleon]

quick SS..and i do watch games in full mode, just not every single one. I guess i should

after a great chance for us, goal for them....

Have you read the last few posts I did in the main thread where I went 3-0 down? I think you might find you need to do something simliar to what I did as you have far too many people going forward. You central players are way to advanced so when the ball is cleared your DC is already out numbered.

[Cleon]

Heh, I'm not from UK or a fan of Sheff. W ;-)

I just finished my second season and for a long time there was no doubt I would be champion of the championship (Won by 17 pts) Next, season in the Premier League.

I'm still struggling with the set up with the 4 main defensive players (FB's, DC and the DMC) to get them play like I want them too. What is your thought of changing the FB's to DC's? I would rather have space on the flanks than in the center.

In a way I'm trying to get my FB's to play like DC's, maybe it's possible to get your DC's to play more like FB's. I need to develop the 3-1-2-3-1 tactic to be more robust, since I will really be the underdog in all the games in the premier league since

the quality of my squad is at best mid table in the championship.

I'm not a fan of 3 DC's as I don't think it works properly. But if you think it'll be better for you then give it a go and see if it's any better. That would mean changing your DMC though as his responsibility wouldn't be to protect the back 3 anymore. Instead he'd have to move into the channels more and protect the wings instead.

Have you considered using the other shape I posted? Then you'd have 2 dmc's. It's the 3-2-2-2-1 formation.

[spur80]

I'm not a fan of 3 DC's as I don't think it works properly. But if you think it'll be better for you then give it a go and see if it's any better. That would mean changing your DMC though as his responsibility wouldn't be to protect the back 3 anymore. Instead he'd have to move into the channels more and protect the wings instead.

Have you considered using the other shape I posted? Then you'd have 2 dmc's. It's the 3-2-2-2-1 formation.

Ye, I think I will try this one too. I think your formation with the two dmc's would be easier to adapt to my current squad, so I let you know how it goes when I get past the pre-season :-)

[pndc]

A great post

How many are you scoring compared to goals been conceded?

I'm now only outscoring my opponents 3-2 on average which is way worse than before. It might just have been sheer luck that I was not conceding more before, but my alterations have not really worked. I'm now six points behind the first in the league at a bad 6th place.

My changes

First of all, I have kept "More Roaming", because I like the way my front roams about. This does not matter for my defensive players, so they still stick to position. Win.

Second, I've changed creative freedom from More Expressive to More Disciplined to ensure that my back four stays in position.

Third, my DMC has been changed from a DM to a DLP and now Anchorman to ensure that he won't move out of position. Hopefully this won't take too much of his quality forward passes. If that becomes a problem I might just manually make him pump though balls. I've manually pushed mentality a bit more down.

It's not major changes, so I'll keep an eye on the positioning of my full backs and my DMC. Hopefully this has changed so that I now have more defensive stability in transition play...

Defensive line is kept standard so that I can focus on the above changes first changes first.

How the changes played out

The changes has not worked. At all. I just lost a game 1-3 and drew another 3-3 after being 3-1 up. Before that another draw where I dominated but let in a last minute corner.

Full backs not being in position has cost me three out of the six goals. Dropping closing down and mentality on my DMC has not really helped protecting the backline either.

Whenever I attack down left/(right), the full back on the opposite side of the attack stays back better now, which is good. However when attacking down the left, my left full back moves up, and thus my DC is overloaded with two strikers, one going wide to receive clearances.

When my LB is exposed, it's then just a matter of my DC going out to mark the free stiker running for the ball. My RB and DMC moves with the other striker, but comes to close to goal leaving space for the striker to drop back into. It has happened twice now: The striker moves all the way towards goal, steps a few steps back and finds himself in a large area of space. This is due to my DMC having dropped mentality, so he drops all the way goal side of the striker. It's insanely hard to strike the right balance.

I've played control at home and the opponents have parked the bus, so I've pushed the defense up to keep my players closer together, but the DC can't really go beyond the halfway line 'cause then the strikers will be onside.

Space between my defenders (channels) have cost me another two goals. To be fair though, my DC and LB had miserable games. Curiously, in both games the opponents scored hattricks against me.

I'd be nice if someone who has managed to get the balance right would look at the PKM's from the two matches. You might notice a thing or two that I do wrong.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21378583/Crici%C3%BAma+v+Americana.pkm

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21378584/Crici%C3%BAma+v+Figueirense.pkm

[aderow]

First off, I'd just like to say that I finished off the season on a high after completing the treble. Beat liverpool 2-0 in the fa cup final and then barca 3-2 in the champions league final.

Attack-wise, my team has been fine.

Defensively, though, I have faced some issues that hopefully I will be able to sort out during this off-season.

The biggest issue would be how high my team pushes up the pitch. I have 2 very forward thinking FBs in Evra and Rafael so to counter this I have switched them to 'defend'. I have not limited their runs because I would like for them to get forward but only occasionally. I'm also going to lower my defensive line even further.

I think that everyone who plays with a CB, 2 FBs, and a DM will face the issue of trying to plug up the gaps that will appear seemingly everywhere. Tight man marking has been working well for me in regards to the full backs. The space that was constantly being exploited by opposition teams during the close of the season was the space that developed between the CB and DM.

Now I was perplexed by this gap constantly opening up because my CB's mentality is actually a couple clicks higher than the DM's. In order to remedy this gap, I'm going to try lowering the mentality of the DM. Also, i'm going to stop playing Lucio at DM. (That guy needs to decide if he's a defender or a striker ffs )

I was actually thinking of going back to flat 4 back line but I've decided to keep this going and see how my team (mainly my defense) does after a full off-season with it.

And ironically, the new head coach of my favorite Japanese side seems to like 3 back formations a whole lot...

[pndc]

Cleon,

I'm currently rewatching your Sheff. Utd - Arsenal PKM and noticed that you also seem to be vulnerable to fast counters. Take this screen for example.

If you lose the ball to at tackle, then a long ball down Arsenal's right wing (or left for that matter) will put you in a very dangerous situation. These are the types of situations I concede most of my goals from. It's amazing that you were not punished by this, as it happened a lot to me.

I also noticed that your LCM (Doyle) is dropping deep very nicely. I suppose he is set to defend. Is that your CM or your BWM or did you change role since then?

[Pozzati]

What would people like to see next? Is there a particular shape or anything?

How about a fluid 4-3-1-2 like AC Milan? Or like AS Roma, but that's a bit more different as the strikers are fairly wide and the attacking midfielder also can become a deeplying striker and is a bit like Barcelona.

AC Milan:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/26/milan-1-1-juventus-tactics/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/15/milan-4-0-arsenal-tactics/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/01/15/milan-0-1-inter-inter-sit-deep-and-counter/

AS Roma:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/12/14/luis-enrique-roma-tactics-barcelona/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/10/16/lazio-2-1-roma-rome-derby-tactics/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/09/17/inter-0-0-roma-tactics/

Many interesting roles in these tactics.

[Cleon]

Cleon,

I'm currently rewatching your Sheff. Utd - Arsenal PKM and noticed that you also seem to be vulnerable to fast counters. Take this screen for example.

If you lose the ball to at tackle, then a long ball down Arsenal's right wing (or left for that matter) will put you in a very dangerous situation. These are the types of situations I concede most of my goals from. It's amazing that you were not punished by this, as it happened a lot to me.

I also noticed that your LCM (Doyle) is dropping deep very nicely. I suppose he is set to defend. Is that your CM or your BWM or did you change role since then?

Remember that I am in League One and Arsenal in the premiership. So I could never match them man for man and I was always going to be vulnerable to fast attacks. I can;t stop that due to the huge gulf in teams. I had 2 choices in this game, either go defensive and risk losing and inviting too much pressure on to my back line who wouldn't have been able to with stand it for 90 minutes. Or just play my normal game and give it a real go. Of course I know its risky but it was a game I had no pressure in as my side wasn't expected to get a win.

Against sides equal to me then the problems you posted don't exist as my team can cope.

My LMC is BWM on defend.

[Cleon]

First off, I'd just like to say that I finished off the season on a high after completing the treble. Beat liverpool 2-0 in the fa cup final and then barca 3-2 in the champions league final.

Attack-wise, my team has been fine.

Defensively, though, I have faced some issues that hopefully I will be able to sort out during this off-season.

The biggest issue would be how high my team pushes up the pitch. I have 2 very forward thinking FBs in Evra and Rafael so to counter this I have switched them to 'defend'. I have not limited their runs because I would like for them to get forward but only occasionally. I'm also going to lower my defensive line even further.

I think that everyone who plays with a CB, 2 FBs, and a DM will face the issue of trying to plug up the gaps that will appear seemingly everywhere. Tight man marking has been working well for me in regards to the full backs. The space that was constantly being exploited by opposition teams during the close of the season was the space that developed between the CB and DM.

Now I was perplexed by this gap constantly opening up because my CB's mentality is actually a couple clicks higher than the DM's. In order to remedy this gap, I'm going to try lowering the mentality of the DM. Also, i'm going to stop playing Lucio at DM. (That guy needs to decide if he's a defender or a striker ffs )

I was actually thinking of going back to flat 4 back line but I've decided to keep this going and see how my team (mainly my defense) does after a full off-season with it.

And ironically, the new head coach of my favorite Japanese side seems to like 3 back formations a whole lot...

You thought about using the 3-2-2-2-1 instead for added defensive stability? After all that's why I changed and decided to use it due to international calls-ups. And I've never looked back since.

[TwinsFan86]

Cleon, I'm hoping to having a to have enough time to write up about my own version of the 3-2-2-1 that I've been working on. I had spent a couple days thinking about how I could improve my formation after getting shredded at Emirates by Arsenal (4-1, Andre Ayew wreaked havoc from his MC position in their 451/433 hybrid). I had told the DM to drop deeper and mark Van Persie which turned out to be a huge mistake because Ayew had a very attacking role and he had a ton of space to work in behind Van Persie (one of my MC's had been told to mark Ayew, but he wasn't doing a very good job of it). Naturally, I set about to try and learn from mistakes and think about what could be done differently. I wanted to try something with 2 DM's, but still be able to be lethal on the attack. I was picturing a 3-2-2-1 in my head with DM's, MR/L as support wingers, 2 AMC's (one AM support, and the other a Trequarista) with an Advanced Forward by himself up top. The next day I got on the forums only to discover, much to my surprise, you had also switched to a 3-2-2-1 that was slightly different. I've had some pretty good results so far, and hopefully I will have time this evening to sit down and write more about it, including my return game against Arsenal (still didn't go completely as planned, but I didn't lose so it was a little better).

[Cleon]

Cleon, I'm hoping to having a to have enough time to write up about my own version of the 3-2-2-1 that I've been working on. I had spent a couple days thinking about how I could improve my formation after getting shredded at Emirates by Arsenal (4-1, Andre Ayew wreaked havoc from his MC position in their 451/433 hybrid). I had told the DM to drop deeper and mark Van Persie which turned out to be a huge mistake because Ayew had a very attacking role and he had a ton of space to work in behind Van Persie (one of my MC's had been told to mark Ayew, but he wasn't doing a very good job of it). Naturally, I set about to try and learn from mistakes and think about what could be done differently. I wanted to try something with 2 DM's, but still be able to be lethal on the attack. I was picturing a 3-2-2-1 in my head with DM's, MR/L as support wingers, 2 AMC's (one AM support, and the other a Trequarista) with an Advanced Forward by himself up top. The next day I got on the forums only to discover, much to my surprise, you had also switched to a 3-2-2-1 that was slightly different. I've had some pretty good results so far, and hopefully I will have time this evening to sit down and write more about it, including my return game against Arsenal (still didn't go completely as planned, but I didn't lose so it was a little better).

The version you want to use with ML/Mr's is incredible defensivley. I'd even go as far as saying the most solid formation on FM by far.

I'm looking forward to reading your post on how you've set up and see what results you get

[mitjamvp]

So i read everything again from the beggining. I did some minor changes in the tactic but didnt really think of changing formation yet. Match number one with new Cleons knowledge.

Vs Frankfurt at home - the have worse team then mine is but they still arent a bad side. Midtable in the league, they use a 4-2-3-1 formation with 2 DMs. after 15 minutes i knew it wont go like this. Yet again opponent used their counter-attacks to be danger for my goal. They had 3 shots in first 10 minutes. So then i decided to listen to Cleons advice and use a DM. I wasnt really sure which player to put there - Cigerci as deeplying playmaker or Geis as defensive midfielder. I went for Cigerci as i still think i need a player in the MC spot who would tackle and mark opponents MCs. Soon after that we scored for the first time. Diving header by Sturridge. Couple of minutes later, Reus fell in the box and we got a penalty. Di Maria scored and was substituted immediately after it. in the 20th minute or so. Since we are making changes lets make it big. So i brought in AMC who would on one side make us play with just one striker but will on the other side allow us to use Reus (who was moved to AML as IF) and Sturridge (AMR IF).

So the formation switched from 3-3-2-2 to 3-1-2-3-1. Attacking - Rigid.

I used my MC to man mark their AMC and my AMC to man mark their DMRC who seemed to be the centre of creation for their team. That meant that while defending we had their AMC and creative DMC marked, + we also had a player behind the midfielders for extra protection (DM-dlp) and a BWMid who dealt with players who wandered into his space and helped other 2 mids.

ALso when i lowered MCs and BWMs mentality it made it even easier for our inside forwards to cut inside as they had lots of space.

The only thing that bothered me was at the end of the match when they played more defensive but still left 4 of their players upfront. They started with long passes to the flanks that might have been a bit dangerous for us.

Tolga Cigerci was brilliant for us as he finished with 40 completed passes out of 43 tries from a DM-DLP position.

Marco Reus did amazing as a left sided Inside Forward, making 2 assists, and being fouled in the box.

I told my Inside Forwards to man mark their fullbacks and they really had an awful game - in both : defence and offence. Their attacking minded players werent giving much trouble either. Unfortunately i couldnt really stop their creative DM Ramon but most of hiss passes were short to nearest player. He wasnt really dangerous.

First time since i am using 3 defenders tactic that opponent didnt have a clear cut chance. They only had 6 shots - 5 of them were from a distance. Much better pass complection - and not just in defence as it was before.

Opponents chances.

Formation etc,...

I am not really sure what role to use for AMC..I have players who be kind of second strikers, inside forward, and i have players who would be more creative like Att mids or advanced playmaker.. What do you think? another sweet problem is where to use Kara in this formation..

[TwinsFan86]

The version you want to use with ML/Mr's is incredible defensivley. I'd even go as far as saying the most solid formation on FM by far.

I'm looking forward to reading your post on how you've set up and see what results you get

The Arsenal game in particular was weird. I got off to a good start, but failed to convert a couple early chances. I'll have to look at the build up to it again, but there was a quick pass up to the AMR at about halfway line that caught Evra a little far forward, but it looked like he recovered quickly and was gonna be back in position to make a tackle, or at the least force him wide with ball, but Smalling made an absolutely horrific decision and left Van Persie completely unmarked to close down Bendtner (who didn't need to be closed down). A quick pass up to Persie and it was 1-0 13 minutes in. A quick look at Smalling's instructions showed that I had forgotten to change his closing down to "Own Area" instead of "Own Half". So it was a horrible decision, but partially my fault as well.

Their second goal was kind of fluky, they had gotten a free kick to the right of my area (right side of their formation). Arshavin took the kick very quickly and up to Denilson, who was outside the area and not marked for some reason (need to look at my defending free kicks and try to discover why), he blasted a shot which ricocheted not once but twice off of different Arsenal players and went in. (first ricochet would have been wide, but the 2nd one put it back in the goal). Now I really have to evaluate, down 2-0 with 5 minutes to half time. A bad decision led to the first goal and I've already fixed that problem, 2nd goal was a fluke, I decided to stick with my game plan. I was controlling possession, just not converting my chances ( Arsenal had really parked the bus, by this point so their penalty area was pretty congested, in hindsight I probably should have tried dropping deeper to get a bit more space). Anyways, a goal right before halftime, and another about the 55th minute led to a 2-2 draw that I wasn't terribly disappointed with.

[Karnage94]

I've not forgot about this just not had time to fire FM up yet

I haven't had a chance since I posted that to really elaborate on what was said, maybe give an insight as to why I chose what I chose tacticaly. And even now I don't have a lot of time to throw something together. I did get another 3 games in, all 3 wins. 2-1 away against fierce rivals Las Palmas that was a fantastic derby to watch with both sides creating chances in a very even game.

Next was a 1-0 win at home against Espanyol in the cup with a complete opposite to the Las Palmas game. This was one very dull affair, especially in the first half but I knew that if I didn't concede, my away goal in the 1-1 draw in the first leg would see me through, so I was honestly quite happy that they weren't even creating chances despite my own inability to do so either, and as they started to push forward for a winner, they left more gaps for exploitation. I didn't need to change anything tactically as the opposition made things rather easy by giving me more space whilst still being poor in the final third.

The last game I played was a 5-0 thumping of Levante who in the wake of the game sacked their manager . Levante played with 3 at the back and a flat 3 man midfield with wing backs, which suited my deep 4-2-3-1 very nicely. I played more defensively aware wingers to track the wing backs with specific man marking as best they could and used my most attacking full backs and let them romp forward. I also played wider and faster than normal to try and burst my way past their 3 centre backs, none of which were blessed with pace. My band of 3 tore Levante to shreds from simply being in a lot of room and against a low morale side that weren't blessed with talent. It was a fun game to watch

This is all well and good but this is against sides I should be getting some sort of result from. Apart from the Valencia game, my games against better opposition have really not been good. If I try and hold back I end up absorbing too much pressure for my defence to take, if I push forward I leave myself with too many gaps and if I play something in between, I get a mix of both.

That was a longer post than I intended but I guess that's not a bad thing

[TwinsFan86]

Here are my team instructions and positions of my 3-2-2-2-1. I created it to be stable defensively first, but when I get the ball, I want to spread out in space and get it forward pretty quickly, so Balanced Control strategy, with More Direct passing you can see puts my width and tempo both at 15 (Wide and Quick 2nd notch), while my defensive line is still normal. I really like the principles behind Man Marking over Zonal Marking, and specific man marking opposition threats. The wingers mark opposition fullbacks very well, and I have a lot of options for marking different formations without affecting my overall shape that much. The 2 DM's both stay back fairly well, with the DLP being the creative outlet for the back line and being the one responsible for getting the ball up to the trequarista.

I had to think for awhile on what I wanted the 2 AM's to be setup as. I eventually settled on AM/s and Treq because theoretically there should be plenty of space for both of them. I really felt that keeping it simple with Advanced Forward would be best for the striker position. I normally really like poacher's and I usually lean towards that type of striker, but with a Treq playing behind him, I wanted a player that could close down and pressure opposing CB's, so advanced forward seemed like the best option and it has worked well so far. Basically the job of all 3 of them is to pull a defender out of position and create a hole in the defense to be exploited. So far I've seen some pretty scoring from both the striker position and the Treq position actually which is about what I expected. I've used it in 9 games so far, scoring 24 and allowing 9 (4 of those against Man City and Arsenal, so just 5 in the other 7 games). Granted, this includes the initial adjustment period as we learna new tactic and I'm still doing some tweaking to get it right, so I expect that to drastically improve in the future.

I shied away from these types of formation in the past, but I've really learned a lot about tactics and football in general trying to apply these types of formations to FM.As an added bonus, I can read Zonal Marking and actually have a clue what he's talking about now, as opposed to a few months ago where I wouldn't have had a clue.

[Cleon]

How about a fluid 4-3-1-2 like AC Milan? Or like AS Roma, but that's a bit more different as the strikers are fairly wide and the attacking midfielder also can become a deeplying striker and is a bit like Barcelona.

AC Milan:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/26/milan-1-1-juventus-tactics/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/15/milan-4-0-arsenal-tactics/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/01/15/milan-0-1-inter-inter-sit-deep-and-counter/

AS Roma:

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/12/14/luis-enrique-roma-tactics-barcelona/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/10/16/lazio-2-1-roma-rome-derby-tactics/

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/09/17/inter-0-0-roma-tactics/

Many interesting roles in these tactics.

Maybe but there is already a thread on this shape appeared in last few days, I like to do something no-one else is. But that's always an option

[Cleon]

So i read everything again from the beggining. I did some minor changes in the tactic but didnt really think of changing formation yet. Match number one with new Cleons knowledge.

Vs Frankfurt at home - the have worse team then mine is but they still arent a bad side. Midtable in the league, they use a 4-2-3-1 formation with 2 DMs. after 15 minutes i knew it wont go like this. Yet again opponent used their counter-attacks to be danger for my goal. They had 3 shots in first 10 minutes. So then i decided to listen to Cleons advice and use a DM. I wasnt really sure which player to put there - Cigerci as deeplying playmaker or Geis as defensive midfielder. I went for Cigerci as i still think i need a player in the MC spot who would tackle and mark opponents MCs. Soon after that we scored for the first time. Diving header by Sturridge. Couple of minutes later, Reus fell in the box and we got a penalty. Di Maria scored and was substituted immediately after it. in the 20th minute or so. Since we are making changes lets make it big. So i brought in AMC who would on one side make us play with just one striker but will on the other side allow us to use Reus (who was moved to AML as IF) and Sturridge (AMR IF).

So you saw weaknesses and decided to exploit it? Nice work

I used my MC to man mark their AMC and my AMC to man mark their DMRC who seemed to be the centre of creation for their team. That meant that while defending we had their AMC and creative DMC marked, + we also had a player behind the midfielders for extra protection (DM-dlp) and a BWMid who dealt with players who wandered into his space and helped other 2 mids.

ALso when i lowered MCs and BWMs mentality it made it even easier for our inside forwards to cut inside as they had lots of space.

Excellent you seem to have got the hang of this by trying to restrict their supply.

The only thing that bothered me was at the end of the match when they played more defensive but still left 4 of their players upfront. They started with long passes to the flanks that might have been a bit dangerous for us.

Did they change shape?

I told my Inside Forwards to man mark their fullbacks and they really had an awful game - in both : defence and offence. Their attacking minded players werent giving much trouble either. Unfortunately i couldnt really stop their creative DM Ramon but most of hiss passes were short to nearest player. He wasnt really dangerous.

Because you marked them you actually made them more defensive naturally as you didn't allow them to get forward un pressured. So you managed to push them back if at anytime you can do this it takes away a massive part of their attacking game.

It's nice to see that all opponents shots were from outside the box. This tells you that they found it hard to go through you as you was strong at the back and held your shape.

I am not really sure what role to use for AMC..I have players who be kind of second strikers, inside forward, and i have players who would be more creative like Att mids or advanced playmaker.. What do you think? another sweet problem is where to use Kara in this formation..

Well you already use 2 inside forwards you don't need a 3rd. Personally I'd just start off and use a normal Attackin Midfielder and see how it plays out for a few games and then change it based on what's happening.

[Cleon]

The Arsenal game in particular was weird. I got off to a good start, but failed to convert a couple early chances. I'll have to look at the build up to it again, but there was a quick pass up to the AMR at about halfway line that caught Evra a little far forward, but it looked like he recovered quickly and was gonna be back in position to make a tackle, or at the least force him wide with ball, but Smalling made an absolutely horrific decision and left Van Persie completely unmarked to close down Bendtner (who didn't need to be closed down). A quick pass up to Persie and it was 1-0 13 minutes in. A quick look at Smalling's instructions showed that I had forgotten to change his closing down to "Own Area" instead of "Own Half". So it was a horrible decision, but partially my fault as well.

So Smalling decided to go and try and cover the 'threat'? You using man marking or zonal? I'm guessing zonal if he left RVP unmarked?

Their second goal was kind of fluky, they had gotten a free kick to the right of my area (right side of their formation). Arshavin took the kick very quickly and up to Denilson, who was outside the area and not marked for some reason (need to look at my defending free kicks and try to discover why), he blasted a shot which ricocheted not once but twice off of different Arsenal players and went in. (first ricochet would have been wide, but the 2nd one put it back in the goal). Now I really have to evaluate, down 2-0 with 5 minutes to half time. A bad decision led to the first goal and I've already fixed that problem, 2nd goal was a fluke, I decided to stick with my game plan. I was controlling possession, just not converting my chances ( Arsenal had really parked the bus, by this point so their penalty area was pretty congested, in hindsight I probably should have tried dropping deeper to get a bit more space). Anyways, a goal right before halftime, and another about the 55th minute led to a 2-2 draw that I wasn't terribly disappointed with.

Nice, so you managed to pull back a result after been 2-0 down which is always good. Plus you was paying attention and you knew exactly how and why you was losing. If you wasn't paying attention do you think you'd have still got the same result?

You deffo worked though to get the result and pull it back level, nice work

[Cleon]

I haven't had a chance since I posted that to really elaborate on what was said, maybe give an insight as to why I chose what I chose tacticaly. And even now I don't have a lot of time to throw something together. I did get another 3 games in, all 3 wins. 2-1 away against fierce rivals Las Palmas that was a fantastic derby to watch with both sides creating chances in a very even game.

No worries I've not had much time either, my playing time seems to be edged more towards the weekend. I will deffo give you feedback on the PKM's though first chance I get. Hopefully before the weekend but if for some reason not it'll deffo be over the weekend

Next was a 1-0 win at home against Espanyol in the cup with a complete opposite to the Las Palmas game. This was one very dull affair, especially in the first half but I knew that if I didn't concede, my away goal in the 1-1 draw in the first leg would see me through, so I was honestly quite happy that they weren't even creating chances despite my own inability to do so either, and as they started to push forward for a winner, they left more gaps for exploitation. I didn't need to change anything tactically as the opposition made things rather easy by giving me more space whilst still being poor in the final third.

The last game I played was a 5-0 thumping of Levante who in the wake of the game sacked their manager . Levante played with 3 at the back and a flat 3 man midfield with wing backs, which suited my deep 4-2-3-1 very nicely. I played more defensively aware wingers to track the wing backs with specific man marking as best they could and used my most attacking full backs and let them romp forward. I also played wider and faster than normal to try and burst my way past their 3 centre backs, none of which were blessed with pace. My band of 3 tore Levante to shreds from simply being in a lot of room and against a low morale side that weren't blessed with talent. It was a fun game to watch

This is all well and good but this is against sides I should be getting some sort of result from. Apart from the Valencia game, my games against better opposition have really not been good. If I try and hold back I end up absorbing too much pressure for my defence to take, if I push forward I leave myself with too many gaps and if I play something in between, I get a mix of both.

That was a longer post than I intended but I guess that's not a bad thing

Against the bigger sides have you tried to control the game using a control strategy or start off using the standard one?

[Cleon]

Here are my team instructions and positions of my 3-2-2-2-1. I created it to be stable defensively first, but when I get the ball, I want to spread out in space and get it forward pretty quickly, so Balanced Control strategy, with More Direct passing you can see puts my width and tempo both at 15 (Wide and Quick 2nd notch), while my defensive line is still normal. I really like the principles behind Man Marking over Zonal Marking, and specific man marking opposition threats. The wingers mark opposition fullbacks very well, and I have a lot of options for marking different formations without affecting my overall shape that much. The 2 DM's both stay back fairly well, with the DLP being the creative outlet for the back line and being the one responsible for getting the ball up to the trequarista.

You might want to keep an eye on the width over a few games to ensure it's not too wide. You might find that the opposition have a bit of space should you lose the ball and they counter you quickly.

I had to think for awhile on what I wanted the 2 AM's to be setup as. I eventually settled on AM/s and Treq because theoretically there should be plenty of space for both of them.

Against a DMC though one of them might be marked out of the game, so keep an eye on that.

I really felt that keeping it simple with Advanced Forward would be best for the striker position. I normally really like poacher's and I usually lean towards that type of striker, but with a Treq playing behind him, I wanted a player that could close down and pressure opposing CB's, so advanced forward seemed like the best option and it has worked well so far. Basically

If you find the AF isn't working or is too advanced then looking at using a DLF with Attack duty might be a better idea. It might be an idea to use this against trickier sides who don't give you much space or are hard to break down. I'd even go as far as using a support for a DLF if you can't break them down. Due to you using 2 AMC it would mean he'd look to play them in a lot more which is great to stretch the opposition and create space from running from deep.

I've used it in 9 games so far, scoring 24 and allowing 9 (4 of those against Man City and Arsenal, so just 5 in the other 7 games). Granted, this includes the initial adjustment period as we learna new tactic and I'm still doing some tweaking to get it right, so I expect that to drastically improve in the future.

That's not bad at all especially as you're not fluid in it yet.

I shied away from these types of formation in the past, but I've really learned a lot about tactics and football in general trying to apply these types of formations to FM.As an added bonus, I can read Zonal Marking and actually have a clue what he's talking about now, as opposed to a few months ago where I wouldn't have had a clue.

I like posts like this as it makes all the effort I put into threads worth while. Knowing that it has helped someones games and made them think slightly different to how they normally do.

I do actually think though that you understand more about how the game works and tactics the more unusual or less conventional the shape you try and implement is. As you have to think about what you are doing and why.

Full credit to you though for trying something different and sticking with it even when things were against you

[TwinsFan86]

So Smalling decided to go and try and cover the 'threat'? You using man marking or zonal? I'm guessing zonal if he left RVP unmarked?

Nice, so you managed to pull back a result after been 2-0 down which is always good. Plus you was paying attention and you knew exactly how and why you was losing. If you wasn't paying attention do you think you'd have still got the same result?

You deffo worked though to get the result and pull it back level, nice work

I am using man marking (but Smalling wasn't assigned any specific marking, just general man marking) which is why I was so upset with him for leaving Van Persie to close down a player that didn't appear to really need closing down.

I definitely don't think I would have gotten the same result without paying attention. I made a minor change to my DC and stuck to my game plan and it worked. I was pretty excited, to be honest.

[Cleon]

I am using man marking (but Smalling wasn't assigned any specific marking, just general man marking) which is why I was so upset with him for leaving Van Persie to close down a player that didn't appear to really need closing down.

I definitely don't think I would have gotten the same result without paying attention. I made a minor change to my DC and stuck to my game plan and it worked. I was pretty excited, to be honest.

Feels good when you turn a game around no wonder you enjoyed it. Even when you try and it still doesn't go in your favour you atleast feel like you've tried to turn the game around. I know paying attnetion isn't everyones cup of tea but I'm a firm beliver in the 'more you put into the more you get out of it' kind of person.

How do you view games now? Just bits of it or full matches?

[TwinsFan86]

Feels good when you turn a game around no wonder you enjoyed it. Even when you try and it still doesn't go in your favour you atleast feel like you've tried to turn the game around. I know paying attnetion isn't everyones cup of tea but I'm a firm beliver in the 'more you put into the more you get out of it' kind of person.

How do you view games now? Just bits of it or full matches?

I've always watched in full, although when I initially started playing with FM05 I didn't always know what was going on. I never really could get a good handle on the sliders. It was really with FM11 (my first experience with the Tactics Creator, I skipped FM09 and 10) that I really begun to feel comfortable with understanding tactics and trying to achieve specific goals. The 3D match engine also had a lot to do with that, too I think. Instead of a bunch of jumbled dots where I wasn't sure who was supposed to be doing what, I actually had people to look at and I could tell if they were out of position or not doing something I wanted them to do.

[mitjamvp]

Did they change shape?

Not really they just started playing more agressive on my players. I lowered my defensive line and went for control tactic so from then on most of my passes were made in the defence waiting for them to attack us and then my defenders passed the ball forward to my midfielders. Probably one of the reasons was also subbing in a very young left back with not much experience. I guess with this this tactic you need players who are used to it.

Because you marked them you actually made them more defensive naturally as you didn't allow them to get forward un pressured. So you managed to push them back if at anytime you can do this it takes away a massive part of their attacking game.

Yea, i even think opponents fullbacks give us the most problems. Their long passes to no one usually end up in a chance for them. Now the keeper has no choice then to kick the ball far away from the goal where hopefully my defenders get it.

It's nice to see that all opponents shots were from outside the box. This tells you that they found it hard to go through you as you was strong at the back and held your shape.

Yea true. The next 2 matches were again at home. Probably i should have make our defensive line play deeper against Nurnberg as almost all of their players were packed in the box near the end of the game. Should have make them come at us.

Thise were the 2 matches since. I dominated in both of them, i beat Nurnberg 1:0 when Geis scored a long shot in 86th minute. They have one of the best right backs in the leauge so Reus didnt really have an easy job going forward but he neutralized him defensively. They did however have 2 great chances, one of them immediately after our goal as their goalkeeper kicked the ball almost into our box but ter Stegen solved that problem.

The other win was again Brondby. Great win against not so great opponent but it was nice to see how much less dangerous they were since the last time we met.

All the matches i played were against not really top opponents, but Liverpool away game is getting near so we shall see what will happen.

half time against Nurnberg

full time stats against Brondby

Well you already use 2 inside forwards you don't need a 3rd. Personally I'd just start off and use a normal Attackin Midfielder and see how it plays out for a few games and then change it based on what's happening.

Yea..i will probably use this guy,good thing is he is young so i can develop him into better AMC. If not i will just go for Leonardo Bittencourt. I cant really buy worlds superstars.

[Karnage94]

No worries I've not had much time either, my playing time seems to be edged more towards the weekend. I will deffo give you feedback on the PKM's though first chance I get. Hopefully before the weekend but if for some reason not it'll deffo be over the weekend

Against the bigger sides have you tried to control the game using a control strategy or start off using the standard one?

Thanks Cleon

Against the bigger sides I start like I do almost any other, a standard strategy. I tend to get over run, unable to build attacks and sustain possession so I tend to go more defensive and try and hold out for a result rather than going for it. I do play differently against a team like Barcelona where I know if I stop them passing then they will struggle, so for that I play a Control strategy and press the life out of them. It worked to some extent in the game. They only broke through late in the second half and scored two quick identical goals with shots across the keeper after my left back got caught out twice. I had chances myself so I guess I should be more aggressive against the bigger sides. I have Real Madrid next away from home, probably the game I least look forward to this season. But hopefully an aggressive approach will serve me well

EDIT:- I lost 1-0 against Real. Conceded from a corner with the goal coming from Higuain. Prevented them from getting into good goal scoring positions but they still racked up 32 shots. I couldn't hold onto the ball long enough before Real closed down. 2 very good chances fell our way, one from Alustiza whose right foot is only good for standing on. He is miserable on his right and screwed a 1 v 1 well wide. The other came from my sub striker Immobile, who missed a header from 5 yards out, heading it directly across goal, which surprised me since he is good in the air however I think my team talk for him wasn't right as he was seen as nervous thought his time on the field. But I know now in future that he isn't great for forcing motivation out of. I did really go for it, closing down all over the pitch but it wasn't to be

[mitjamvp]

We managed to beat Bayern. We were the better side in the match itself but its hard to not concede when opponent has players like Ideye, Tevez, Kroos, Muller, Schweinsteiger and Robben in the midfield and attack.

We also had our first choice MC injured, aswell as Reus (AML-IF) and our best defender Jagos Vukovic. All of them were replaced by youngsters. Yet again we managed to stop them from having any clear cut chances.

The goals they scored were cause by lack of concentration. First one was scored after opponents throw in, i guess i have to fix that. Second one was scored after my goalkeepers mistake as the striker took the ball away from him.

[aderow]

I've taken into account what you suggest cleon and I've decided to try something new.

I'm trying to make a system around this shape:

First impressions are thus. Iniesta likes getting forward and getting forward quickly. Only thing is that he hasn't tracked back like I want him to.

Pique really really really likes to get forward. That PPM is really starting to become a nuisance. When he isn't charging forward, both he and Busquets stay back and let the full backs get forward. I'd like to see more of Busquets (and occasionally Pique) getting forward and supporting the playmakers.

I've been getting goals from all of the 'front 4'. I'd prefer for Iniesta to stay closer to Xavi as he is getting ahead of Messi a lot at the moment. Messi is my 'main forward' of sorts.

When I watch my team attack, I'm nervous and confused at the same time because I don't knew who and where the danger man is at any given moment. Right now I am creating something that I don't fully understand. Thats not happened in long time for me in FM.

[TwinsFan86]

Just had an interesting game against Chelsea. Won 5-1 with all 5 goals coming from set pieces. 2/3 penalties, 2 corners, and an indirect free kick. My 3-2-2-2-1 may need some work offensively, but it's starting to really be sound defensively. Chelsea only had 4 shots, despite 46% possession. Their only goal came late after Fletcher missed a tackle on Lukaku (Fletcher was playing out of position as the Anchor DM because of injuries, so I'm not too upset). Pretty pleased with just 2 shots on target and no clear chances for Chelsea. By far my most comprehensive performance to date with my new formation.

[sakrai]

Hello everyone, after reading the whole thread I decided to learn how to play FM properly, and oh boy it has been hard.

I'm playing the 3-1-2-1-2-1 formation and there's this problem that I can't solve on my own and it has been super frustrating. After my last game against Valencia I got fed up and decided to ask for help, so here it goes:

Watch my Left FB marked in red, and what happens next:

Instead of marking Jonas (number 7) he goes after Soldado together with Piqué, allowing Jonas all the space he'll ever need, needless to say you know what happens next:

Jonas scores and I get mad feeling like the dumbest player ever.

Do you guys know what I'm doing wrong? Valencia was playing a 4-3-1-2 with 3 MCs and 1 AMC. Everyone is on man mark, LB assigned to STCR and RB assigned to STCL, DM marking the AMC. Those mistakes keep happening and I even managed to almost lose a 7 goal advantage on the second leg on an away game after losing 5-0 to Betis.

How do you set up your back 3? I don't seem to get it right.

[Cleon]

We managed to beat Bayern. We were the better side in the match itself but its hard to not concede when opponent has players like Ideye, Tevez, Kroos, Muller, Schweinsteiger and Robben in the midfield and attack.

We also had our first choice MC injured, aswell as Reus (AML-IF) and our best defender Jagos Vukovic. All of them were replaced by youngsters. Yet again we managed to stop them from having any clear cut chances.

The goals they scored were cause by lack of concentration. First one was scored after opponents throw in, i guess i have to fix that. Second one was scored after my goalkeepers mistake as the striker took the ball away from him.

Still a good result though you must be happy with that? Mistakes do happen though and you'll never be able to cut them out.

[Cleon]

First impressions are thus. Iniesta likes getting forward and getting forward quickly. Only thing is that he hasn't tracked back like I want him to.

Have you asked him to specific man mark the opponents midfielder? That should encourage him to trakc back more, you could even add tight marking as well if you wished.

When I watch my team attack, I'm nervous and confused at the same time because I don't knew who and where the danger man is at any given moment. Right now I am creating something that I don't fully understand. Thats not happened in long time for me in FM.

Is that a good thing or bad thing? How many games have you played with that formation?

[Cleon]

Just had an interesting game against Chelsea. Won 5-1 with all 5 goals coming from set pieces. 2/3 penalties, 2 corners, and an indirect free kick. My 3-2-2-2-1 may need some work offensively, but it's starting to really be sound defensively. Chelsea only had 4 shots, despite 46% possession. Their only goal came late after Fletcher missed a tackle on Lukaku (Fletcher was playing out of position as the Anchor DM because of injuries, so I'm not too upset). Pretty pleased with just 2 shots on target and no clear chances for Chelsea. By far my most comprehensive performance to date with my new formation.

Have you thought about pushing the ML/MR to AMR/AML for the easier games? My AML is my highest scorer of about a goal a game, he's the main striker in my side.

[Cleon]

Jonas scores and I get mad feeling like the dumbest player ever.

Do you guys know what I'm doing wrong? Valencia was playing a 4-3-1-2 with 3 MCs and 1 AMC. Everyone is on man mark, LB assigned to STCR and RB assigned to STCL, DM marking the AMC. Those mistakes keep happening and I even managed to almost lose a 7 goal advantage on the second leg on an away game after losing 5-0 to Betis.

How do you set up your back 3? I don't seem to get it right.

Did you use opposition instructions by any chance? If not then I'm confused not seen anything like that happen before. The only logical reason is you selected the wrong striker to mark somehow. I've checked through some of my games and this doesn't seem to be happening from what I can see. You deffo sure you selected the LB to mark the right striker?

You're using man marking or zonal?

You can tell in your first screenshot that he isn't even marking the person next to him and is going to try and track back the player on the left due to his positioning. That's either down to OI's or wrong specific man marking selected, it must be :confused:

[Romanista1994]

I've taken into account what you suggest cleon and I've decided to try something new.

I'm trying to make a system around this shape:

First impressions are thus. Iniesta likes getting forward and getting forward quickly. Only thing is that he hasn't tracked back like I want him to.

Pique really really really likes to get forward. That PPM is really starting to become a nuisance. When he isn't charging forward, both he and Busquets stay back and let the full backs get forward. I'd like to see more of Busquets (and occasionally Pique) getting forward and supporting the playmakers.

I've been getting goals from all of the 'front 4'. I'd prefer for Iniesta to stay closer to Xavi as he is getting ahead of Messi a lot at the moment. Messi is my 'main forward' of sorts.

When I watch my team attack, I'm nervous and confused at the same time because I don't knew who and where the danger man is at any given moment. Right now I am creating something that I don't fully understand. Thats not happened in long time for me in FM.

That's the exact shape and (mostly) player positioning that I had with Barca in FM10. And I called it the X-formation at the time as well.

I remember the threat from deep being very effective at the time, but we were initially having too many players forward for defensive corners and the two wide players weren't really being threatening. How are those two things in particular going for you?

[aderow]

Have you asked him to specific man mark the opponents midfielder? That should encourage him to trakc back more, you could even add tight marking as well if you wished.

Is that a good thing or bad thing? How many games have you played with that formation?

I haven't tried specific man marking right now. And as for games, so far I've played 4 pre season matches with this tactic. Good or bad thing? I'm not sure yet. Thats the fun of it

That's the exact shape and (mostly) player positioning that I had with Barca in FM10. And I called it the X-formation at the time as well.

I remember the threat from deep being very effective at the time, but we were initially having too many players forward for defensive corners and the two wide players weren't really being threatening. How are those two things in particular going for you?

Ironic that I'm playing FM10 now lol

The deep threat has been quite effective. A little too effective at times. As for the wide forwards, they are scoring regularly so I haven't had an issue with them.

I understand what you're saying though.

EDIT: I spent an amazing amount of time trying to develop a tactic that created as many chances for my 2 wingers as it did for my 2 strikers. I think at the end of the day having 2 players next 2 each other in the middle (either as forwards or as, in this case, attacking mids), you basically crowd out the wingers.

That appears to be what is going on right now as the team get more used to the tactic. I'll keep testing this shape for a couple more matches but I think ultimately I'm gonna move messi back up to FC.

[mitjamvp]

Do you guys know what I'm doing wrong? Valencia was playing a 4-3-1-2 with 3 MCs and 1 AMC. Everyone is on man mark, LB assigned to STCR and RB assigned to STCL, DM marking the AMC. Those mistakes keep happening and I even managed to almost lose a 7 goal advantage on the second leg on an away game after losing 5-0 to Betis.

How do you set up your back 3? I don't seem to get it right.

I prefer using one of my MCs to mark opponents AMC. I dont really want my DM to mark anyone because if the striker is marked by your DC and AMC marked by your DM that means theres a 2 vs 2 situation all the time. Barcelona does have great players but as Cleon said mistakes will happen specially if you play against sides like Valencia which has quite a lot of talent in their team. When 2 on 2 anything can happen. 4-3-1-2 or 4-1-3-2 are the hardest tactics to play against IMO. I just lost to liverpool 1:2 away in CL but one of the reasons was also there great striker partnership Cavani Suarez and physically and mentally brilliant midfield.

When i would play against Valencia i would rather use my AMC to mark their most creative MC and i would use my most creative MC to mark their AMC. Then there are also DM and MC in your team who can help to cover everyone else in the midfield.

My most creative MC has the lowest mentality in my team as i dont want him to go to much forward as i already have AMC there, and it would even restrict Inside Forwards creativity and space.

How high is your defensive line set up? I think you should try lowering it when playing away or against teams who use fast tempo. It will help you attacking wise as you will be able to invite their forwards meaning there will be more room in the midfield and defensively aswell as not every through ball or a defenders missed will result in a chance.

I dont like when my fullbacks mark specific players. I just set them to man mark whoever comes into their zone. I am not sure about it but sometimes when opponents strikers swap positions my fullbacks (if i have them set to mark specific player) just chase them to the other side of the pitch.

What role do you use for your DM? (Busquets) Dlp? or DM?

Oh and i fixed the attacking throw ins problem. From now on my inside forwards take them.

[Cleon]

I've never seen as many people in a thread all attempt something new

[TwinsFan86]

Have you thought about pushing the ML/MR to AMR/AML for the easier games? My AML is my highest scorer of about a goal a game, he's the main striker in my side.

Yeah, I've thought about it. I just was trying to come up with something new on my own instead of copying you.

[Cleon]

Yeah, I've thought about it. I just was trying to come up with something new on my own instead of copying you.

Well you wouldn't be playing same as our general settings and player roles differ. Plus it would be kind of a natural evolution for you rather than copying as you want more focus on attack

[sakrai]

Did you use opposition instructions by any chance? If not then I'm confused not seen anything like that happen before. The only logical reason is you selected the wrong striker to mark somehow. I've checked through some of my games and this doesn't seem to be happening from what I can see. You deffo sure you selected the LB to mark the right striker?

You're using man marking or zonal?

You can tell in your first screenshot that he isn't even marking the person next to him and is going to try and track back the player on the left due to his positioning. That's either down to OI's or wrong specific man marking selected, it must be :confused:

I do not use OIs ever, I'm playing man marking, tight marking and medium tackling. The thing is that Soldado was the right striker but somehow he was the one who got to that long ball. Maybe he switched positions with Jonas? Because I'm sure I instructed the LB to mark the right striker.

How high is your defensive line set up? I think you should try lowering it when playing away or against teams who use fast tempo. It will help you attacking wise as you will be able to invite their forwards meaning there will be more room in the midfield and defensively aswell as not every through ball or a defenders missed will result in a chance.

I dont like when my fullbacks mark specific players. I just set them to man mark whoever comes into their zone. I am not sure about it but sometimes when opponents strikers swap positions my fullbacks (if i have them set to mark specific player) just chase them to the other side of the pitch.

What role do you use for your DM? (Busquets) Dlp? or DM?

Thanks for all the advice . I play with a super high defensive line and my midfield is set up with a DM defend, MCL as DLP defend, MCR as CM support and AMC as AM attack. I'll try your suggestions and keep you guys updated, thanks again.

[Cleon]

I do not use OIs ever, I'm playing man marking, tight marking and medium tackling. The thing is that Soldado was the right striker but somehow he was the one who got to that long ball. Maybe he switched positions with Jonas? Because I'm sure I instructed the LB to mark the right striker.

That is the only other thing it can be, the striker must have swapped places.

[TwinsFan86]

Well you wouldn't be playing same as our general settings and player roles differ. Plus it would be kind of a natural evolution for you rather than copying as you want more focus on attack

Yeah, that is true. I'm ginna have to do some tinkering tonight and see what I come up with.

[sakrai]

I just lost the second leg playing home against Valencia 2-2 on away goals rule.

They played a 4-3-1-2 with 3 MCs and one AMC so I decided to changed the way I use man marking on this game, I set it up as following: my striker on their MC, my AMC on their AMC, my MCR on their MCL and my MCL on their MCR.

My defense didn't had any evident major flaws like last game but it's obvious that changes need to be made, I just don't know what really, I watched this match on full and tried to play reactivity but I am not responding properly to what is going on in the game since I don't know what the right answers are.

Another thing I've noticed is that my right side of the team is not as involved in the game as the left side, the analysis tab shows that my MCR and my right winger have considerably less passes than their mirrors. How can I make everyone on the team get involved in the game? I play wide with passing on shorter, on a quick tempo, should I just play narrower?

[Cleon]

I just lost the second leg playing home against Valencia 2-2 on away goals rule.

They played a 4-3-1-2 with 3 MCs and one AMC so I decided to changed the way I use man marking on this game, I set it up as following: my striker on their MC, my AMC on their AMC, my MCR on their MCL and my MCL on their MCR.

My defense didn't had any evident major flaws like last game but it's obvious that changes need to be made, I just don't know what really, I watched this match on full and tried to play reactivity but I am not responding properly to what is going on in the game since I don't know what the right answers are.

Another thing I've noticed is that my right side of the team is not as involved in the game as the left side, the analysis tab shows that my MCR and my right winger have considerably less passes than their mirrors. How can I make everyone on the team get involved in the game? I play wide with passing on shorter, on a quick tempo, should I just play narrower?

Could be a number of reasons, have you checked some of the other games back to see if its same?

Maybe the right sides were marked and they couldn't be as involved due to the opposition? Maybe they just weren't options for the rest of your team to pass to? Especially if you use short passing and their not positioned unmarked close by, there never really an option then.

Do you use a playmaker?

[sakrai]

Could be a number of reasons, have you checked some of the other games back to see if its same?

Maybe the right sides were marked and they couldn't be as involved due to the opposition? Maybe they just weren't options for the rest of your team to pass to? Especially if you use short passing and their not positioned unmarked close by, there never really an option then.

Do you use a playmaker?

It's been the same for quite some time now and I don't use a playmaker since I'm not 100% sure what it does, my educated guess would be that the other players on the team look to feed him the ball more often. Is that correct?

I tried going from shorter to direct passing and it just happened again on my match against Villareal, on a match I absolutely dominated with 63% possession, 8 CCCs and 17 shots, while they had 1 shot on target due to a freekick near the box, ending the game with a 5-0 score.

My left MC had 53 pass attempts while my right MC had 23, in the other hand my left IF had 20 pass attempts while my right winger had 17.

Here are some screenshots of the passing:

http://www.abload.de/img/barcelonavvillarreala5ukgt.png

http://www.abload.de/img/barcelonavvillarrealapjj2f.png

Maybe CM support for the right MC needs to be changed. While DLP defend for the left one seems to be doing fine.