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dafuge's FM08 small club to big club challenge

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Loaning is and always has been a big part of LLM since before feeder clubs/parent clubs were even thought of. Plus it still doesn't solve the problem of your board getting you a parent club :/

As Dafuge has said, the parent club isn't the unrealistic bit, it's the players they send and while you may have no choice about a parent club you can reject the loan transfers.

And I agree, loans can be necessary when wage budgets are tight and you have a transfer of budget £0 but if they are unrealistic then maybe no loans is the simplest option that can be proved with screenshots.

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I'm quite happy with loaning players in general, it's when you get loaned a £1m rated striker who scores you 40 goals and gets you promoted that I don't like.

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I'm quite happy with loaning players in general, it's when you get loaned a £1m rated striker who scores you 40 goals and gets you promoted that I don't like.

Possibly set limitations on the value of a player that can be loaned (although time remaining on a contract may skew this). If it is workable though you could have a list of leagues and the max value of a loanee player for each (BSS/BSN Max value 100k, BSP Max Value 250k etc) with screenshots on the day of the transfer as proof. All very laborious...here's hoping SI have made this a non-problem ;)

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Guest roberto922

TBH that's complicating things, IMO one of the most attractive parts of this challenge is that it's simple to do but hard to complete, if you start adding rules and regulatons all over the shop it would damage the enjoyment which HAS to be the most important factor.

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TBH that's complicating things, IMO one of the most attractive parts of this challenge is that it's simple to do but hard to complete, if you start adding rules and regulatons all over the shop it would damage the enjoyment which HAS to be the most important factor.

Exactly. To make things simple it might be best to not have any rules on it, but have a guideline which people can choose to follow if they wish.

I'm hoping that with the demo we can all test it out and decide if it is needed at all.

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TBH that's complicating things, IMO one of the most attractive parts of this challenge is that it's simple to do but hard to complete, if you start adding rules and regulatons all over the shop it would damage the enjoyment which HAS to be the most important factor.

I agree. I'm just throwing ideas around but ideally none of them will be needed. We're only discussing it because of a flaw in the FM08 loan signing implementation so with a bit of luck it won't even be an issue in FM09.

I could also see the lack of loans actually damaging the success of the challenge. We all know that in any of these challenges the first season or 2 can be extremely frustrating as you just try to get 11 bodies on the pitch so the ease of loaning good players in FM08 probably got a lot of people past those early seasons. Once you're a few seasons in its much tougher to abandon a save.

BUT, if there are no easy loans in FM09 a lot more could give up early on.

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Guest roberto922

Yeah that's best IMO, if people want to follow the guidelines (I won't be getting a prem side as a parent club this time) it'll just make it more of an achievement and gives them more braggin rights, whereas the people that decide to get a top parent club and exploit other things won't have achieved as much but it'll still have been fun for them.

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Guest roberto922

Well I am, I think we'd need the opinions of the other regulars like NepentheZ etc.

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TBH I don't see what's bad about players making the most of what's given to them, if you're offered a choice of Arsenal, Leeds or Charlton as a feeder club you're gonna go for Arsenal, why would you go for the lesser version? It's like being offered a choice between a Sega Megadrive or a PS3.

Megadrive everytime obviously ;)

I did actually choose a megadrive over a 360 a couple of Christmases ago. I was waiting for the PS3 to come out :p

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I'm quite happy with loaning players in general, it's when you get loaned a £1m rated striker who scores you 40 goals and gets you promoted that I don't like.

Just to be finicky, does this mean that if we sign a player not on loan that scores 40+ goals, you've also don't like that? Value imo means nothing, and is too largely linked to reputation of the club. But I could find a 40+ BSP striker who's valued at no more than £50,000 in a heart beat.

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If he is likely to come to a club of that stature then it's alright isn't?

He's more moaning about the fact that a Prem player wouldn't go on loan to a BSN/BSS club.

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Guest roberto922

Wrexham (BSP) Loaned John Ruddy from Everton and he's played a couple of games for us, why wouldn't an unknown 17 year old go to a BSP side?

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If he is likely to come to a club of that stature then it's alright isn't?

He's more moaning about the fact that a Prem player wouldn't go on loan to a BSN/BSS club.

A prem player wouldn't go anywhere other than a Prem club. IMO, the loaning of 16-20 year olds who are yet proven does actually happen down in the lower leagues. I remember a few years back, Arsenal had a DC called Liam Chilvers, who went on loan to Northampton Town in 2000/2001 season, while they were in Div. 1. He also got loaned out to Notts Co. who again at the time were a Div. 1 club.

I know thats not as bad as BSP / BSS - but I'm sure lots of prem kids have gone down as far as that to get first team footy. Turns out Chilvers was pants, and now plays for Preston.

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Wrexham (BSP) Loaned John Ruddy from Everton and he's played a couple of games for us, why wouldn't an unknown 17 year old go to a BSP side?

Thats my point, :D

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Guest roberto922
But does he go on scoring 40+ Goals though?

No but he kept our defense as solid as a rock for the 3 months he was there.

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Just to be finicky, does this mean that if we sign a player not on loan that scores 40+ goals, you've also don't like that? Value imo means nothing, and is too largely linked to reputation of the club. But I could find a 40+ BSP striker who's valued at no more than £50,000 in a heart beat.

No, not at all, I'm talking about the players who you can sometimes get on loan from parent clubs who don't belong in the BSN/S. You can spot them a mile off as their attributes are streets ahead of the other players in the league. I've not got a problem with players who are of a similar standard to the league (or a little bit better) but Championship quality players shouldn't be playing in the BSN/S.

Players like this (from the Wallace vs Roberts thread)

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Yea I get what you're saying, but my point is, its possible to pick these players up regardless. I have Bullseye and Robert Holmes, who are both come under "Could be a leading star for most Premiership sides" - and I picked them both up as 16 year olds, and they both played in the BSS and BSP for me.

I do agree though, its stupid to have a player of Kenney's caliber loaned out, but its also unrealistic that a 24 year old would drop down that far.

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Guest roberto922

And I have Robert Smith who I picked up as a 16 year old in BSP and he's just led us to the Premiership title so it's the same thing to me.

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Yea I get what you're saying, but my point is, its possible to pick these players up regardless. I have Bullseye and Robert Holmes, who are both come under "Could be a leading star for most Premiership sides" - and I picked them both up as 16 year olds, and they both played in the BSS and BSP for me.

I do agree though, its stupid to have a player of Kenney's caliber loaned out, but its also unrealistic that a 24 year old would drop down that far.

Picking up players who have the potential to be Premier League standard is not a problem, that happens with good scouting, it's the players who are very nearly Premier League standard already coming on loan from parent clubs that I am not happy with.

The reason I'm querying it is because it is unrealistic, players who are that good should not be joining BSN/S teams on loan, they should be going to League 1 or Championship teams as a lot in real life do.

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Guest roberto922

I've just said that John Ruddy, who has played for Everton 2-3 times, went on loan to Wrexham for 3 months and was immense for us so it does happen IRL

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And I have Robert Smith who I picked up as a 16 year old in BSP and he's just led us to the Premiership title so it's the same thing to me.

Brian Taylor did the same for me :cool:

That's completely different though, at the time of signing him he was the right standard for the league you were playing in, he just had the potential to go a lot further.

I'm talking about the players who you can get on loan from your parent club (who you couldn't normally sign or loan) who are good enough to play in League 1 or the Championship already, with the potential to improve. You can't sign players like this any other way while in that league.

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I've just said that John Ruddy, who has played for Everton 2-3 times, went on loan to Wrexham for 3 months and was immense for us so it does happen IRL

Is that this season or a couple of seasons ago?

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Guest roberto922

Last season I think. They were in League Two but he was still too good for us.

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Last season I think. They were in League Two but he was still too good for us.
In September 2006, Ruddy was given another chance on loan. A one-month deal was agreed with Stockport County, which was extended to three months after an impressive performance. Since then he agreed another one month loan with Wrexham in February 2007 but failed to establish a place in the team during his time at the Racecourse Ground and the Red Dragons decided against extending the loan beyond the initial month. On April 21 Ruddy completed an emergency one week loan to League One side Bristol City and helped them move closer to promotion. He is currently out on loan, having a second spell with Stockport County.

His many loan spells mean Ruddy played for eight clubs before he turned 21.

He doesn't sound like the sort of player I'm talking about, I mean the sort of player who turns the club into a one man team during a year long loan.

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Guest roberto922

I don't get people that support us :( I thought he was immense on his first stay :o

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Real London Update - Season 7 (2014/2015)

Just a small update this time around. I don't see the point in a full update with FM09 round the corner, and would rather spend my time getting through the seasons in FM08 :)

League 2 - 2nd place, Promoted.

I was in and around the play off spots for the entirety of the season. A change of tactic with 12 games left saw me get to top spot with 1 game to go, but a home draw against 17th place meant I had to settle for 2nd. Still a dream season, and I'm delighted to be out of League 2 in just 2 seasons.

Manager Profile.

Carl Simons - Basically controlled the team. The midfield he has behind him means he's a 50+ goal a season striker for my club. Top effort.

Manager history

Season 1 - Blue Square South - 8th place

Season 2 - Blue Square South - 12th place

Season 3 - Blue Square South - 2nd place

Season 4 - Blue Square South - 1st place | Promoted to Blue Square Premier

Season 5 - Blue Square Premier - 2nd place | Promoted to Division 2, via play-offs.

Season 6 - Coca-Cola League 2 - 20th place

Season 7 - Coca-Cola League 2 - 2nd place

*Real London were formerly Hendon

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Guest roberto922

Good to see you promoted, proves me right :cool: Good luck with the seasons, I'm in a right old rush to get my challenges done :)

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Guest roberto922

I'm doing this, Wallace vs Roberts and Rancers challenge, I'm only in season 2 with the Asian one though.

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just joined :D

Profile

taken over at Bedford Town. have a slight concern, my team only has 9 players in it, the rest are made up of greyed out players

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Pretty fast for me, but it depends on your processing speed though.:p

It shouldn't take too long even on a computer with average specs.

And welcome to the forums.:)

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Tiverton Town, 2008/2009

Media Prediction: 21st*

Finished: 5th

FA Cup: 3rd Q Round

Setanta Shield: 1st Round

FA Trophy: 2nd Round

Table|Graph

League

The Season started indifferently. Just managed to get 11 'real' players out on the first day, and managed to beat Fisher 2-0 (who struggled all year). Then the expected poor run started. 2 wins from 9 put us where I expected us to be; bottom half. This 5-5 draw with Wimbledon the highlight!!! However, recruiting players was coming along nicely. I was confident that results would pick up. I was right. A 14 game unbeaten run from November to February left us in the top half with an outside chance of the play-offs. A couple of loan signings in March saw us sneak into the play-offs courtesy of a last day of the season 2-1 win at 2nd placed Ebbsfleet.

Semi Final

A convincing 5-2 win at home allowed me, I thought, to be complacent when travelling to the return leg to Dorcester [Although I warned my players against in ;)!]. Playing my 2 young defensive midfielders instead of either of my aging attacking midfielders (which by now included Hadji...took me ages for my scouts to pick him up!) seemed to be working at 80 minutes. I'd dominated the game and although the 1-2 scoreline didn't reflect this, I was happy with a 2 goal cushion on aggregate. Out of nowhere, I conceded...twice! I was shocked...but composed myself...changed a few things...and pulled a late winner out of my A***! 2-4 on the night, and 7-6 on aggregate.

Final

Considering I never expected to be here in the first season, I though I'd go for it. Playing Hadji as a play-maker, I looked to repeat the dominance of the semi with a better attacking result. In reality my small squads legs were gone, and I lost 2-1. The dodgy penalty, sending off and near misses, couldn't hide the fact that Ebbsfleet were far better when they had something to play for. They deserved it, and I'm left to regroup for a proper push next year.

Cups

Barely worth mentioning. First 2 competitions came too soon as I was still trying to get 16 players out every week. Had a little run in the Trophy but hardly worth shouting about.

Summary

I expected mid table obscurity. I had an outside hope of the play-offs but didn't believe in it until about 5 games out (so utilised the loan market). A little disappointed with the final loss, but I feel my team is capable of beating any team I played last year. Next year the aim is promotion.

Squad Stats

Star players

Watkins: One of the Original Five. Had a very good season and won player of the year. Attracting unwanted interest.

Mason: Season loan from Feeder Club, Argyle. Good striker, but injury prone. Now in Luton's Reserves after being released.

Stanford: Another of the Original Five. Was solid at left back, especially after I'd signed competition. Also attracting unwanted interest.

New Players

Ben Gerring: Had him briefly on loan, but got injured. When signed he stated he was looking for a permanent move. When Argyle released him, he got it.

Toby Davies: Found in a Bristol City reserve game. When released I snapped him up as I quite like having a Target Man.

Youth Intake: Fairly standard. My Assistant is a good judge of potential and ability. I can assure that the are all fairly average. May come in useful though.

Club Info | Finances | Profile

*I don't feel the media prediction for the first season is worth noting. I had 5 players when it was made! The team predicted 22nd have 3!

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Guest roberto922

Good luck Adam, good first season Basic Flaw.

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For some reason im not getting my verification code from Dafuges website, so im just gonna start and keep and take my screenshots as needed!

Wish me luck...

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Sorry guys have been away from the site for a few days and have completed 4 seasons since! (Thats what happens when you work nights!!) so here are my updates:

Chelseadaft Ilkeston Season 3 2010/2011 Blue Square Premier. (My default tactic and training challenge inside the Dafuge challenge)

A season of struggle was predicted by the press for Ilkeston and my god it was. Again HAD to use my parent club Derby for loans to stand any chance of survival. Remember im not changing anything about the training or tactics at all, just using oppo instructions. Very hard season, injuries hit me and important stages in the season and my own players that stood out in last seasons title winning season took a while to adjust to the BSN. Anyway fight we did and we managed to stave off relegation only just! Here are the screenies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%203/table3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%203/squad3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%203/transfers3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%203/finances3.jpg

Chelseadaft Ilkeston Season 4 2011/2012 Blue Square Premier/

My Luck ran out. Again utilised the loan signings to try and establish stability in the league but it all went to pot. Cruicial injuries to my loan strikers took its toll and my side went down with a whimper to be fair. Again players that had played for me for 4 seasons now seemed to have consistant nightmares or would either get sent off or injured more often than not and my greyed out youngsters had to come in and try and do a job but it wasn't to be. So we went down. Of course once it was confirmed the press had a field day speculating whether or not i would be offered a new deal, and to my surprise i was! Another 2 year deal which was the only positive thing to come out of this season! Screenies below:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%204/table4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%204/squad4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%204/transfers4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%204/finances4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%204/contract.jpg

Chelseadaft Ilkeston Season 5 2012/2013 Blue Square North.

Just like a Yo-Yo we bounced back from dreadful season and won the league in our first attempt since being back in the division! At the beginning of the season i decided upon a clear out. Out with the deadwood and in with experience and players recommended by my scouts (who had alot to answer for last season!) The two key signings for me on Freebies were two players that gave my side experience and stability that we had lacked in the last two seasons. In came Andy Dawson (York) and Simon Rusk (York). Both were made Captain and Vice-Captain with the latter my number one. It seemed not only to steady the ship but brought alot out of my youngsters. Again, i won't lie, i used the loans from Derby has i have in ever season so far as i had to and the side played some good stuff and scored goals for fun. So we are back to have another crack at the Blue Square National. Here are the screenies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%205/table5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%205/squad5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%205/transfers5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%205/finances5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%205/titlewin5.jpg

Chelseadaft Season 6 2013/2014 Blue Square Premier.

What a start we had to the season. In came three more scout recommended signings along with the loans and we started off all guns blazing. We had amassed 31 points but the beginning of November and the magical 40 point mark didnt seem far off. BUT, as usual the game gets its own back on you. Key injuries took their toll and i had buggered up my loans that i had to play players out of position who then also got injured and my great start was taken away from me. 14 games without a win including only 3 draws hurt the side.

We plummeted down the league. For the first time i can remember since playing the game one of my playes became unhappy with my assistant manager Paul Devlin and due to the fact we had won in so long i decided it was time for change and sacked him. I promoted Kevin Horlock from Coach to assistant manager and brought in Dougie Freedman as Coach. Devlin to this point only had a rating of 3 for motivation, whereas Horlock is on 8 and this had an immediate affect. We managed to stablise above danger and battled for some good wins, this of course happened at the same time key players came back from either suspension or injury and we managed to put a nice run together or good results to maintain our status in the league so i am more than happy. We finished a respectable 15th. Here are the screenies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%206/table6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%206/squad6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%206/transfers6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/chelseadaft/Season%206/finances6.jpg

So considering i am not touching the tactics or the training i am happy with the progress. BUT the big problem i have is that they still won't give me any money from transfers!!!

I would also like to add my point of view to Dafuge about the loan signings from a parent club. In this instance with my game and the way i am playing it i have no choice but to utilise the parent club option (which was already in place before i started the challenge) but i 100% agree with the fact that in some cases loaning a player from a Big Parent club, and i mean Premiership or Championship side to a BSN/BSS side is ridiulous when its blatently obvious they are going to run a mock in the league.

For the new game and challenge i put forward the idea of banning Parent Clubs until YOUR OWN club becomes one and you then utilise your feeder clubs. It does give you an unfair advantage and no matter what anyone else here says in this thread, we all feel a sense of guilt when you do really well in the lower leagues to start with as your loanee bags his 30th goal of the season!.

I think it makes it more realistic. As i still see the odd promotion a season flying about here and there through the lower leagues. Great if you have no parent club and fair play if you haven't, but im sure it wouldnt be as easy as that if you didn't! Thats just my point of view!

My Career so far in the Default Training and Tactic Dafuges Challenge - Ilkeston.

Season 1 08/09 BSN Position 3rd.

Season 2 09/10 BSN Position 1st Promoted

Season 3 10/11 BSP Position 20th.

Season 4 11/12 BSP Position 22nd Relegated

Season 5 12/13 BSN Position 1st Promoted

Season 6 13/14 BSP Position 15th.

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