Missed Interception - Tactical Flaw or Individual Player Error?

[wwfan]

If that was a reference to me saying I hadn't seen crab movement, I did follow it up by sending a full pkm report to Paul based on the match that was uploaded proving it was happening, so he could fix it. I subsequently did see it occasionally in my matches, but nowhere near to the extent in the uploaded example, which was why I hadn't picked it before.

Not everything is quite as black and white as some like to make out. For example, you claim it is impossible to 'read' the ME or a match, whereas I have very little difficulty doing so. One of us is either lying, which makes no sense, or we simply experience FM from different perspectives and mindsets, which can help explain our contradictory experiences. Simply deciding that my perspective blinds me to blatant errors doesn't make it so. I might hold a different opinion on some, or perhaps my tactical approach makes others less likely to manifest, but that doesn't make me non-critical of the ME. I report ME bugs all the time, whether they be ones I found or ones forwarded to me by others. However, from my perspective, the ME is nowhere near as 'awful' as many of you proclaim. Flawed, yes. Horribly unplayable, no.

As for the OP's question, perhaps 'both' is the best answer.

[Zebedee77]

No problem, tell me what you mean exactly and how to go about it ok?

I am off out for a couple of hours, but will have some time later this afternoon!

Perhaps the easiest to set up is between two Human controlled teams with a save at the last moment before the match begins from which you reload for every test.

Everything should be the same for each test match. Not necessarily the same for both teams, just the same for each team every time eg same players, same instructions, same team talks etc etc.

It's a bit harder to do against the AI (the AI may or may not leave things the same).

Wondering whether the random factor is glitched - so the 'first' match leads to similar results every time (and perhaps at the extremes of what should be possible) but other matches will show greater variation. And if the errors are the problem then a set of 10 test matches is something that will bolster your argument.

[Mitja]

At the end of the day the game should be more difficult and with a better stronger ME this would be the case and there would be little need for levellers, in FM good sides have it far too easy against weaker sides, even players with little technical ability can just waltz through defences and its almost a given that to get anything out of a game, the weaker side need to depend on their opponents strikers missing a boatload of sitters, whilst they take whats usually their only chance of the game.

Its just nowhere near that black and white in real life, sometimes your Chelsea's, Arsenal's and Man Utd's etc, lose because they have played poorly or because they have been outplayed on the day, not just because they missed a bunch of sitters and the opposition took their only chance.

This is just not reflected in FM.

exactly that's the thing that bothers me most. it all comes down to poor ME defensive awarness. 910 was defensivly better eventhough there seemed to be problems with attacking that's why there were too many long shot goals. at least there weren't so many 1 on 1's in the first place and playing defensivly (both human or AI) was reflecting real life much better. but i knew what will happen after these forums went crazy with 'my world class striker only scores 20 goals a season'.

imo if some parts of attacking ME code was slightly improved like crossing, dribbling, balls hitting posts too often...we would have much better ME than this.

[Rupal]

If that was a reference to me saying I hadn't seen crab movement, I did follow it up by sending a full pkm report to Paul based on the match that was uploaded proving it was happening, so he could fix it. I subsequently did see it occasionally in my matches, but nowhere near to the extent in the uploaded example, which was why I hadn't picked it before.

Not everything is quite as black and white as some like to make out. For example, you claim it is impossible to 'read' the ME or a match, whereas I have very little difficulty doing so. One of us is either lying, which makes no sense, or we simply experience FM from different perspectives and mindsets, which can help explain our contradictory experiences. Simply deciding that my perspective blinds me to blatant errors doesn't make it so. I might hold a different opinion on some, or perhaps my tactical approach makes others less likely to manifest, but that doesn't make me non-critical of the ME. I report ME bugs all the time, whether they be ones I found or ones forwarded to me by others. However, from my perspective, the ME is nowhere near as 'awful' as many of you proclaim. Flawed, yes. Horribly unplayable, no.

As for the OP's question, perhaps 'both' is the best answer.

No, it isn't 'unplayable'. It isn't at all good though!

[mlp071]

exactly that's the thing that bothers me most. it all comes down to poor ME defensive awarness. 910 was defensivly better eventhough there seemed to be problems with attacking that's why there were too many long shot goals. at least there weren't so many 1 on 1's in the first place and playing defensivly (both human or AI) was reflecting real life much better. but i knew what will happen after these forums went crazy with 'my world class striker only scores 20 goals a season'.

imo if some parts of attacking ME code was slightly improved like crossing, dribbling, balls hitting posts too often...we would have much better ME than this.

That is exactly my small complain. While i managed to play(decent) decent game defensively(0.7/goals per game conceded), my 1-legged strikers are constantly getting 1 on 1 in alarming numbers, and my midfielders are sending thru balls with precision of Maradona in large numbers.

It's just way to many of those, and it's way to repeatable.It's not unplayable , but defensively game should be improved.

[Wee Aja]

Missed interception is, imo, a bit of both, Hammer1000.

But with FM being so vague, it's difficult to know exactly how to eradicate it (not that it could ever be removed completely, of course).

[This field intentionally l]

Not being religious I take exception to the "deus ex machina" feel to the results I see with this ME. The final straw was beating Arsenal away 3-1 with 0 CCCs to their 9. Its time to stop when you feel cheated even when you win.

[Hammer1000]

Not being religious I take exception to the "deus ex machina" feel to the results I see with this ME. The final straw was beating Arsenal away 3-1 with 0 CCCs to their 9. Its time to stop when you feel cheated even when you win.

Have stopped playing for the time being as i simply cannot watch the matches, its almost like watching a different sport.

I'll have a look at the next patch, but not expecting much, sad to say, but my FM days may be well and truly over by March.

I may even cry.

[Wee Aja]

Have stopped playing for the time being as i simply cannot watch the matches, its almost like watching a different sport.

I'll have a look at the next patch, but not expecting much, sad to say, but my FM days may be well and truly over by March.

I may even cry.

I find that hard to believe

There are problems a-plenty in FM, no doubt, but you and I both know we'll be playing it for years to come.

Just last night I challenged my laptop to a round of boxing.

It lost

[Hammer1000]

I find that hard to believe

There are problems a-plenty in FM, no doubt, but you and I both know we'll be playing it for years to come.

Just last night I challenged my laptop to a round of boxing.

It lost

I'm not trying to be melo dramatic mate, but i seriously cannot watch the games anymore, defending in the ME Human wise is at a massive all time low and i cannot see the next patch making much of a difference.

The whole game has been heading down the toilet for some time now and with no other game of this genre in a position to make SI up the stakes added to the lack of pressure from us, i just dont see how things are going to get better?

[WoIfsong]

This is what i've been saying about the ME all along and why the game is no fun anymore.

How are we supposed to accept that our "strongly gelled side" of "World Class" players with "superb" morale who are not "cocky" and "over confident" before a game, keep making schoolboy errors, whilst poor players in weak squads lacking morale and confidence throughout, keep managing to go 90 minutes against us with nary a mistake?

I have managed from Iran to Brazil and England, from Munich 1860 to Juventus, I am now in year 2021 and I have not seen the above in a single match where I did decent teamtalks (as in as long as there is no "seemed demotivated" result). It does not matter what tactics I use, in fact I now use only one tactic for home and away and it has all sliders on normal except individual mentalities and I've used it for all levels of teams. I've so far kept a career win rate of 77%.

My view is therefore that it is not the tactics, it is not individual player's lack of ability as you claim you have world class players, as I too did when managing Brazil, England and Juventus; but it may well be the teamtalks that demotivated your players.

It is hard to believe but it is true that morale does not translate to motivation (even though in TV view the text purports to) in the ME, a player with superb morale who gets a "seemed demotived" from teamtalks will perform like an amateur.

I am only guessing here but do you happen to use the "we can win" teamtalk a lot? This teamtalk is so bugged in Fm09 that it has a roughly 70% chance of demotivating one or two players.

[WoIfsong]

I use 'Dont Be Complacent' all the time and still manage to keep the lead. It usually makes the players focus somewhat. Only use it when winning against better teams. With a 50% win record over the top 4 teams in the championship this season it seems to work for a team who were supposed to be relegated this season (on paper lol)

"Don't get complacent" is in indeed buffed in Fm09 so that it usually has more positive effects ("gained focus" "seemed motivated") than negative ones. Even if negative ones do happen, they are mostly likely just "angered, seemed confused" which in the current version do not translate to bad performance. However, I've never tried using it for weak teams like you do, thanks for telling me that!

[Wee Aja]

I'm not trying to be melo dramatic mate, but i seriously cannot watch the games anymore, defending in the ME Human wise is at a massive all time low and i cannot see the next patch making much of a difference.

The whole game has been heading down the toilet for some time now and with no other game of this genre in a position to make SI up the stakes added to the lack of pressure from us, i just dont see how things are going to get better?

Don't get me wrong mate, I read your threads all the time and am almost fully in agreement with your points. You do have the curious ability to post in a constructive manner, as opposed to "This game cheats and I've had enough"...

*I'll still buy FM10, FM11, FM12....

[Rupal]

The overpowered nature of the team talks adds to the sense of lack of control which many of us feel. Quite frankly, it's a bad joke that choosing the right one seems to outweigh all the tactical and other input as suggested by WoIfsong. The balance between one's tactical input and the rest of the factors is all wrong.

As far as the ME is concerned, it's simply appalling. I'm sorry, wwfan, it's not just a matter of 'bugs'. Hammer1000 has highlighted the generally awful defending. I'd just like to emphasise again the lack of decent attacking as well. This causes far, far too many goals to come from player error (to return to the start point of this thread). It's just too painful to watch, quite honestly.

The tactical interface is user unfriendly and desperately needs a complete rethink.

The game in general has far too many features which don't work properly.

SI have got away with things for some considerable time because of a lack of competition. I await the new CM with some interest. In the meantime, like Hammer1000, I shall have a look at the new patch. I doubt that it will do much to address matters and so I am also likely to give up on the series.

[Hammer1000]

I have managed from Iran to Brazil and England, from Munich 1860 to Juventus, I am now in year 2021 and I have not seen the above in a single match where I did decent teamtalks (as in as long as there is no "seemed demotivated" result). It does not matter what tactics I use, in fact I now use only one tactic for home and away and it has all sliders on normal except individual mentalities and I've used it for all levels of teams. I've so far kept a career win rate of 77%.

My view is therefore that it is not the tactics, it is not individual player's lack of ability as you claim you have world class players, as I too did when managing Brazil, England and Juventus; but it may well be the teamtalks that demotivated your players.

It is hard to believe but it is true that morale does not translate to motivation (even though in TV view the text purports to) in the ME, a player with superb morale who gets a "seemed demotived" from teamtalks will perform like an amateur.

I am only guessing here but do you happen to use the "we can win" teamtalk a lot? This teamtalk is so bugged in Fm09 that it has a roughly 70% chance of demotivating one or two players.

I dont do teamtalks mate, but i noticed in my earlier Blackpool save that the Ass Man was using it a lot without success(result wise) but i always check the team talk reaction after every game and i have never witnessed much of a problem with demotivation.

In the EPL where i normally play, i find that the Ass Man rarely chooses the "we can win this" teamtalk and again, checking team talk response after every game, there seems to be little or no problem with demotivation.

I appreciate you trying to help, thank you, but i think this goes a lot deeper than team talks.

I have 3 or 4 completely different tactics that i use and am usually very succesful with, so i'm not struggling and asking for tactics here, but i would be interested in trying out the tactic/s you use and getting back to you with some in depth results concerning defensive errors.

Let me know if your interested?

Cheers

[Hammer1000]

Don't get me wrong mate, I read your threads all the time and am almost fully in agreement with your points. You do have the curious ability to post in a constructive manner, as opposed to "This game cheats and I've had enough"...

*I'll still buy FM10, FM11, FM12....

I was'nt having a moan at you mate, i appreciate your support, thank you!

[mlp071]

Human player can get around most of the things that you mentioned.I did by using PI's to channel AI players in certain directions(away from the middle) and tweaking things every time when AI changes players positioning.As a result i don't suffer from majority of defensive lapses that you are listing.Only times those happen are when i make mistake in setting up things by not matching up my defensive players properly or i leave to much space behind my isolated defenders.As the result i am conceding super healthy 0.7 goals per match, and that is after 60+ matches using those adjustments with defensive 4 that have 3 17 y/o players.

I am not seeing any of the things that you are mentioning , except in some rare occasions , since i started doing this.But again, i am also using self made tactics , instead of downloading someone else's , so i know what every player is suppose to do.

What i have noticed is that AI is desperately trying to create mismatch thru the middle and if it doesn't succeed(meaning you are setup properly) it will start rapidly to switch players in weird way , example will place DC to ST position , ST in MC position etc, for brief periods . That usually doesn't last long (2-5 minutes ) but it shows me that AI is incapable of adjusting tactics , and instead it's doing what i have mention.I had games where AI switched players all over the positions at least 15+ times in last 10 minutes of the match.

However, AI is not capable of that and i am creating way to many 1 on 1. I am scoring from those , but having 6+ per game from my side is really way to much.Defensively AI is really bad in 9.2, it was in 9.1 and in any version of FM 08.

From what i can gather , SI made adjustments to make wingers more effective, in '07 they were pretty much good only if you would go inside or cross from deep with them. That in combination with very high defensive line created lot of space that can be very easily exploited by Human player.AI can exploit those also , unless Human doesn't keep up with adjustments.

My conclusion would be that AI is just not capable to cope with utilizing high defensive line, offside traps and covering wings and middle of the pitch at same time effectively in additon to weird ball physics.At same time AI is effective in attack only using one certain approach, and if you stop that it becomes a major issue for it.It's kind of mind boggling that my fairly slow towering striker scored way more goals by outrunning AI defensive line , then from headers. So i would point that out as major reason for unnatural things that happen during the match.