molemenacer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I haven't posted on here very much since I signed up as I haven't really felt like it but I do read quite a few of the threads. Before I give you my 2 cents, this is in no way a direct attack on anyone or defense of anything, there are bugs in the game and everyone knows it. I am in software development myself and know how hard it is to test for every eventuality that can occur, and having a moan about SI's testing procedures when a lot of people have no idea about the process from idea to development to testing makes me laugh. We have a very thorough testing procedure at the company I work for, but bugs still get through, it is not possible to test for everything possible outcome of every possible decision. This is in no way saying that some of the bugs that have got through maybe should not have, the Italian crash on the 24th of July perhaps should have been picked up, but that would require a tester going through from start to finish of the season and encountering the bug. It is possible that the time the tester did go through the Italian season it did not occur and therefore slipped through. Rather than moaning about it again and again just do not play the Italian leagues until the 2nd patch is out, there are plenty of other leagues that do work. Although this is not ideal it is a workaround until the next patch is released. I am close to finishing my second season and although I have found a few bugs (annoyances) there is nothing that has stopped me playing all together. I can sympathize with people that cannot even get the game to run, but once it is there is nothing that stops you playing it outright, there are no showstopping bugs. I know this has been a long post, but this is the end. When a piece of software is released, if there is a deadline, like Football Manager, then often small bugs are “allowed” to be released with it as long as there are no showstoppers (bugs that stop the software running). After that it comes down to the company as to if they allow high /medium /low bugs to be released. The bugs such as the extra players in the tactics window is a low priority bug and was perhaps allowed to be released with the game as it only occurs some of the time. If you have read this it is my opinion from my experience as a software developer and I would imagine that SI are just as annoyed as a lot of you are and are trying to fix the issues. Some of the abuse they have received on this forum is uncalled for and not really required or helpful. I am all for opinions being voiced, but there is a way to do it without resulting to insults and abuse (not from anyone in particular just my view from all the threads moaning about SI's nerve to release a game with bugs in from so many threads). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tefal Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I haven't posted on here very much since I signed up as I haven't really felt like it but I do read quite a few of the threads. Before I give you my 2 cents, this is in no way a direct attack on anyone or defense of anything, there are bugs in the game and everyone knows it.I am in software development myself and know how hard it is to test for every eventuality that can occur, and having a moan about SI's testing procedures when a lot of people have no idea about the process from idea to development to testing makes me laugh. We have a very thorough testing procedure at the company I work for, but bugs still get through, it is not possible to test for everything possible outcome of every possible decision. This is in no way saying that some of the bugs that have got through maybe should not have, the Italian crash on the 24th of July perhaps should have been picked up, but that would require a tester going through from start to finish of the season and encountering the bug. It is possible that the time the tester did go through the Italian season it did not occur and therefore slipped through. Rather than moaning about it again and again just do not play the Italian leagues until the 2nd patch is out, there are plenty of other leagues that do work. Although this is not ideal it is a workaround until the next patch is released. I am close to finishing my second season and although I have found a few bugs (annoyances) there is nothing that has stopped me playing all together. I can sympathize with people that cannot even get the game to run, but once it is there is nothing that stops you playing it outright, there are no showstopping bugs. I know this has been a long post, but this is the end. When a piece of software is released, if there is a deadline, like Football Manager, then often small bugs are “allowed” to be released with it as long as there are no showstoppers (bugs that stop the software running). After that it comes down to the company as to if they allow high /medium /low bugs to be released. The bugs such as the extra players in the tactics window is a low priority bug and was perhaps allowed to be released with the game as it only occurs some of the time. If you have read this it is my opinion from my experience as a software developer and I would imagine that SI are just as annoyed as a lot of you are and are trying to fix the issues. Some of the abuse they have received on this forum is uncalled for and not really required or helpful. I am all for opinions being voiced, but there is a way to do it without resulting to insults and abuse (not from anyone in particular just my view from all the threads moaning about SI's nerve to release a game with bugs in from so many threads). good post. i'm less than happy about this version of the game for many reasons but always try and keep my critisms civil. in defense of the people that do get a little 'over excited' i think that with such an overly passionate fanbase perhaps you shouldn't be that surprised by an overly passionate response. it happens to the best of us. after a particularly horrible ryanair flight recently i sent them an email saying i would have rather gone with a proper airline and crashed into a mountain half way than made it there safely with ryanair. obviously i didn't mean it but it was a heat of the moment thing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonfun1980 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Si like to get us to test the game for them, saves them money paying people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
molemenacer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Si like to get us to test the game for them, saves them money paying people. I would disagree with this as from my experience developers hate to release any code that they know to have a bug in it even if it is a small bug. Very often a change in one area of the program can effect a completely different part of the program that doesn't get retested and therefore a bug will get released. Getting the consumers to test the software is actually less cost effective because it has to go the whole way to release for the bug to be found. If the bug is found in house it can be fixed quicker and cheaper than if it goes to whole way to release and back round again. FACT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmywils Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I haven't posted on here very much since I signed up as I haven't really felt like it but I do read quite a few of the threads. Before I give you my 2 cents, this is in no way a direct attack on anyone or defense of anything, there are bugs in the game and everyone knows it.I am in software development myself and know how hard it is to test for every eventuality that can occur, and having a moan about SI's testing procedures when a lot of people have no idea about the process from idea to development to testing makes me laugh. We have a very thorough testing procedure at the company I work for, but bugs still get through, it is not possible to test for everything possible outcome of every possible decision. This is in no way saying that some of the bugs that have got through maybe should not have, the Italian crash on the 24th of July perhaps should have been picked up, but that would require a tester going through from start to finish of the season and encountering the bug. It is possible that the time the tester did go through the Italian season it did not occur and therefore slipped through. Rather than moaning about it again and again just do not play the Italian leagues until the 2nd patch is out, there are plenty of other leagues that do work. Although this is not ideal it is a workaround until the next patch is released. I am close to finishing my second season and although I have found a few bugs (annoyances) there is nothing that has stopped me playing all together. I can sympathize with people that cannot even get the game to run, but once it is there is nothing that stops you playing it outright, there are no showstopping bugs. I know this has been a long post, but this is the end. When a piece of software is released, if there is a deadline, like Football Manager, then often small bugs are “allowed” to be released with it as long as there are no showstoppers (bugs that stop the software running). After that it comes down to the company as to if they allow high /medium /low bugs to be released. The bugs such as the extra players in the tactics window is a low priority bug and was perhaps allowed to be released with the game as it only occurs some of the time. If you have read this it is my opinion from my experience as a software developer and I would imagine that SI are just as annoyed as a lot of you are and are trying to fix the issues. Some of the abuse they have received on this forum is uncalled for and not really required or helpful. I am all for opinions being voiced, but there is a way to do it without resulting to insults and abuse (not from anyone in particular just my view from all the threads moaning about SI's nerve to release a game with bugs in from so many threads). I think if someone has put all their time, effort (sometimes tears) into a long term save game, and they then find that they cant progress, that is, im afraid a showstopping bug. It stops you from continuing (Talking about Serie C bug incidently). The Polish league bug is another one. It just smacks of incompetence To say 'Just dont run that league' is a cop out and is of no comfort to anyone effected by it. There is really no excuse for this bug to be present in the game. None whatsoever. The fact that someone 'missed it' doesnt speak highly for the individual/team who missed it or for whoever is employing them. Imagine if that had happened in the Premiership or other English league. There would be mass riots!! No matter what happens with the next patch, my view of the whole testing and QA process is very poor. On the whole, the game COULD be very good. I really hope that the 2nd patch does the game justice because otherwise, FM10 will have to pull something pretty special out the bag to make up for it. Having said all that, i will still buy it next year....and the year after etc etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
molemenacer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I think if someone has put all their time, effort (sometimes tears) into a long term save game, and they then find that they cant progress, that is, im afraid a showstopping bug. It stops you from continuing (Talking about Serie C bug incidently). The Polish league bug is another one. It just smacks of incompetenceTo say 'Just dont run that league' is a cop out and is of no comfort to anyone effected by it. There is really no excuse for this bug to be present in the game. None whatsoever. The fact that someone 'missed it' doesnt speak highly for the individual/team who missed it or for whoever is employing them. Imagine if that had happened in the Premiership or other English league. There would be mass riots!! No matter what happens with the next patch, my view of the whole testing and QA process is very poor. On the whole, the game COULD be very good. I really hope that the 2nd patch does the game justice because otherwise, FM10 will have to pull something pretty special out the bag to make up for it. Having said all that, i will still buy it next year....and the year after etc etc In a way i agree with you but if when the game went through testing that particular part of the game there was no problem then what can you do. A small change somewhere else could have been the factor for the inability to continue and you cannot test the whole game and every possible league everytime you make a change. Although this is annoying to anyone in this situation, and i sympathise, hopefully now the bug has been identified it can be solved and those people may be able to continue. Havig spent a lot of time working with testers and customers, i know how annoyed customers can get and i know how picky testers can be, and the ones i have worked with take a lot of pride in their work and seeing this many bugs in something they have signed off will be painful for them. Not running the league is a workaround for now, it is by no means ideal but moaning and getting abusive to the company that makes the product is not neccessary. By all means put your points of view across and you have every right as a consumer to moan, but do it without resulting to insults and abusive language, which has been all over these boards since the release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmywils Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 In a way i agree with you but if when the game went through testing that particular part of the game there was no problem then what can you do. A small change somewhere else could have been the factor for the inability to continue and you cannot test the whole game and every possible league everytime you make a change. Although this is annoying to anyone in this situation, and i sympathise, hopefully now the bug has been identified it can be solved and those people may be able to continue.Havig spent a lot of time working with testers and customers, i know how annoyed customers can get and i know how picky testers can be, and the ones i have worked with take a lot of pride in their work and seeing this many bugs in something they have signed off will be painful for them. Not running the league is a workaround for now, it is by no means ideal but moaning and getting abusive to the company that makes the product is not neccessary. By all means put your points of view across and you have every right as a consumer to moan, but do it without resulting to insults and abusive language, which has been all over these boards since the release. Well i will agree with you on the abuse. Its too much sometimes and i cringe at some of the emotional posts on here, i really do. I suppose we will never know just how dilligent or slack the testers were with regards to the Italian or Polish league but still, its a shocker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes_83 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Would I ignore it? No I would use my brain and fix it instead of whining like a baby on a forum. Good luck 1) Shut Up2) Shut Up Congratulations you have no issues, well apart from being a complete idiot, others do and it's not their fault. Their computers meet the requirements on the box so therefore they should be able to play the game, if they can't they naturally come on the SI forums to let someone know about it. Let me get this straight, if the game didn't work for you then you would ignore it? By posting their problems or issues with the game on this forum they ARE trying to fix the problem! Unfortunatly it's probably too late to fix the problem you have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAHoward Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I haven't posted on here very much since I signed up as I haven't really felt like it but I do read quite a few of the threads. Before I give you my 2 cents, this is in no way a direct attack on anyone or defense of anything, there are bugs in the game and everyone knows it.I am in software development myself and know how hard it is to test for every eventuality that can occur, and having a moan about SI's testing procedures when a lot of people have no idea about the process from idea to development to testing makes me laugh. We have a very thorough testing procedure at the company I work for, but bugs still get through, it is not possible to test for everything possible outcome of every possible decision. This is in no way saying that some of the bugs that have got through maybe should not have, the Italian crash on the 24th of July perhaps should have been picked up, but that would require a tester going through from start to finish of the season and encountering the bug. It is possible that the time the tester did go through the Italian season it did not occur and therefore slipped through. Rather than moaning about it again and again just do not play the Italian leagues until the 2nd patch is out, there are plenty of other leagues that do work. Although this is not ideal it is a workaround until the next patch is released. I am close to finishing my second season and although I have found a few bugs (annoyances) there is nothing that has stopped me playing all together. I can sympathize with people that cannot even get the game to run, but once it is there is nothing that stops you playing it outright, there are no showstopping bugs. I know this has been a long post, but this is the end. When a piece of software is released, if there is a deadline, like Football Manager, then often small bugs are “allowed” to be released with it as long as there are no showstoppers (bugs that stop the software running). After that it comes down to the company as to if they allow high /medium /low bugs to be released. The bugs such as the extra players in the tactics window is a low priority bug and was perhaps allowed to be released with the game as it only occurs some of the time. If you have read this it is my opinion from my experience as a software developer and I would imagine that SI are just as annoyed as a lot of you are and are trying to fix the issues. Some of the abuse they have received on this forum is uncalled for and not really required or helpful. I am all for opinions being voiced, but there is a way to do it without resulting to insults and abuse (not from anyone in particular just my view from all the threads moaning about SI's nerve to release a game with bugs in from so many threads). to save you time typing. SI has already admitted that they were short on testers this year and there will be more for 10. so testing was not a prority apparently in 09. for such a large loyal fanbase (profit) SI has developed throughout the years there is really no excuse for slack in the testing dept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAHoward Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I would use my brain and fix it instead of whining like a baby i often wonder if this forum is restricted to planet earth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antmanbrooks Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Would I ignore it? No I would use my brain and fix it instead of whining like a baby on a forum. Good luck Everybody stop, we have a solution. Stokes is clearly far superior to the whole of SI and can therefore fix all the bugs the game has. Hire this boy SI, he's a god amonst men. OK you would fix it, go on then please expess with us all how you would fix these bugs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grade Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 LAHoward I also heard that rumor of the testers. But In nowadays, with the crisis that exists, that people are becoming more select on what they purchase, like I'm doing and even now with the countless of games that exists about football sim (Fifa Manager and Championship Manager, of course FM is still number one, but from what i have heard the other are gaining ground), but a lot of people who are not fans, they see these bugs and think twice before buying FM10. SI might lost sales on FM10, because I personally didn't like FM08 and FM09 doesn't have me won over yet. I have to think that spending 50 euros are well spend on FM10, but that is because I'm a fan, but casual gamer, may not buy FM10, because of the bugs that prevent them from playing and enjoy FM09. I read that sales of FM09 was high, but not so much compare to previous FM games sales, now with this bugs I wonder if the sales of FM10 will plunge. Who will hurt the most? SI. So SI needs to figure out things carefully of what will they do for FM10, because the competition is catching up them and they are not at very good moment. I personally feel that FM07 is far better then FM08 and FM09, I personally think that a step backwards, with far better graphics of the 3D (specially the Kits 2D with the 3D issue must be resolved, because I'm of the opinion if something is very tested, but it is something that feels not complete is preferable to delay to the next version), and implement some of the stuff of FM09 (I have some issues, with Match day, subs, and team talks showing up, when you set for your Ass. manager to do them), will be a great step forward and FM10 can be great game like its predecessors (FM05, FM06 and FM07). Of course that is my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tefal Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Would I ignore it? No I would use my brain and fix it instead of whining like a baby on a forum. Good luck i haven't read all of the posts on this thread but this makes you sound like a complete twat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.