Possession tactic roles

[Mik_Fe]

Hi everyone!!

Does anyone can help me to find best role for 433 possession based?

I take a look at discussion of Johnny Ace about 433..

My idea for now is:

SK-S

WB-S (both)

CD-D (both)

DM-D (or DLP-D??)

CM-S (or RPM or DLP-S???)

AP- S or AT??

IF-S (both)

DLP-A (or CF-A??)

 

Please, take me some idea to create this tactic.. and if anyone test this type of tactic, tell me some advice! 

thank you so much guys!!!

[CJ_Randell]

I'd be reluctant to have 3 play making roles in midfield. 

It's common to break the midfield roles into a Sitter, a Runner and a Creator. 

So maybe the DM-De, CM-Su and AP-Su/At 

You may want to consider have a BPD at the back if you have a capable player, so there are more players on the pitch who can't break the lines with passes, you don't need possession for the sake of it. 

Edited January 15 by CJ_Randell
Spelling Error

[Johnny Ace]

Basically, roles that look to dribble more and take risky passes are more likely to turnover possession, so you have to try & strike a balance across the team. You want players offering an offensive threat and breaking lines but not too many of them 

[coach vahid]

Il y a 3 heures, Johnny Ace a dit :

Basically, roles that look to dribble more and take risky passes are more likely to turnover possession, so you have to try & strike a balance across the team. You want players offering an offensive threat and breaking lines but not too many of them 

I would like to know if you can share some setup for this situation. If i remember correctly, this is not your prefered football in the game.

[Mik_Fe]

8 ore fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

roles that look to dribble more and take risky passes are more likely to turnover possession

what do you mean Johnny?

I understaind your idea that I need some players whit risk passes, but not too much, correst? in theory i can put one BPD ( like advice by @CJ_Randell ) one in the midfield like AP and  2 minimun into attack (like IF and forward), I understanid your comment?

But with your experience, which are the best combination of roles, i see the combination of role (pdf file) but i dont find answers... for this reason i put some roles in my theory idea..

[Johnny Ace]

6 hours ago, coach vahid said:

I would like to know if you can share some setup for this situation. If i remember correctly, this is not your prefered football in the game.

Yeah, I'm not fussed about possession, though I'm sure I did in the 4-3-3 DM thread, I'll have a look but any 4-3-3 with FBs over WBs is a good start  

 

1 hour ago, Mik_Fe said:

what do you mean Johnny?

I understaind your idea that I need some players whit risk passes, but not too much, correst? in theory i can put one BPD ( like advice by @CJ_Randell ) one in the midfield like AP and  2 minimun into attack (like IF and forward), I understanid your comment?

But with your experience, which are the best combination of roles, i see the combination of role (pdf file) but i dont find answers... for this reason i put some roles in my theory idea..

Exactly, think about it, 3 playmakers in midfield all looking to play risky passes into space, both wingbacks looking to dribble frequently, they can easily mispass or get tackled 

[NineCloudNine]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Exactly, think about it, 3 playmakers in midfield all looking to play risky passes into space, both wingbacks looking to dribble frequently, they can easily mispass or get tackled 

IIRC didn't Trent A-A have the most posession conceded and the most chances created for any defender at one point? Those jaw-dropping high-risk passes win games but too many players trying them - especially if they aren't as good as him at it - just means handing the ball over.

[Mik_Fe]

1 ora fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

FBs over WBs is a good start 

FB better than WB? because the first dont have go forward correct?

 

1 ora fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

both wingbacks looking to dribble frequently

why dribble frequently? he dont have dribble more in PI

 

1 ora fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

they can easily mispass or get tackled

they, do you mean WB or playmakers? beacuse in my idea the WB have PI dont risk passes..

I see that there are some people that knows a lot of this thread, does someone advice me some roles idea to start this project?

because i write my idea but at now i dont understand a lot

Edited January 15 by Mik_Fe

[Johnny Ace]

27 minutes ago, Mik_Fe said:

FB better than WB? because the first dont have go forward correct?

FB's tuck inside too which help the team keep the ball

27 minutes ago, Mik_Fe said:

why dribble frequently? he dont have dribble more in PI

No, but they dribble, stay wide and get forward more than FBs 

27 minutes ago, Mik_Fe said:

 

 do you mean WB or playmakers? beacuse in my idea the WB have PI dont risk passes..

 

Playmakers play risky passes

27 minutes ago, Mik_Fe said:

I see that there are some people that knows a lot of this thread, does someone advice me some roles idea to start this project?

because i write my idea but at now i dont understand a lot

 

I did one here

Could easily be a DLF(A) or CF(A) up front

[cmonreds]

If I understand you correctly you are looking for some "fixed" combination of roles that suits possession tactics? If so I think you are approaching it from the wrong end. My opinion is that the ME and tactics creator is more flexible than just to look for certain roles and combinations that is suited for possession tactics. Like @Johnny Ace and @NineCloudNine mentions it is all about how you delegate/allocate the risk taking. Risk is neccessary, but it has both an upside (what you can gain and why you take the risk) as well as a downside where you can be punished for taking the risk.

For possession tactics you should be considerate with the risk you take. It is common to play with a high press and DL, this make your team vulnerable with the available space behind your defensive line. The more risk you take the more likely that you will loose the ball and the opposition exploiting this space. Also for possession tactics pressing when out of possession is equally important. The roles/PI's you assign in your tactic should cover both these aspects. There are different ways to delegate/allocate risk taking for possession tactics. You can reduce/limit risk for 9 players and let 2 players take a lot of risk, or you can even it out and let most of your players take medium risk with PI's on mixed for dribbling/passing/crossing/shooting. Also passing length and forward runs is risk taking. How many players in total taking these risks in your tactic is what you should consider.

[Mik_Fe]

I see your post, in your opinion is the same if the creative player is into midfield? I mean invert RPM and BWM, I put DM-S and RPM into midefield.. or do you think that the creative player needs to be into the central of the pitch?

I know what you mean, about risk.. now i understand, thanks for the comment of @cmonreds

[cmonreds]

23 minutes ago, Mik_Fe said:

I see your post, in your opinion is the same if the creative player is into midfield? I mean invert RPM and BWM, I put DM-S and RPM into midefield.. or do you think that the creative player needs to be into the central of the pitch?

I know what you mean, about risk.. now i understand, thanks for the comment of @cmonreds

What are the PI's of the CM, BWM and RPM ? I like the team fluidity 

Are you aiming for a 2-2ish rest defence (RD) ? 

Edited January 15 by cmonreds

[Mik_Fe]

it s not mine 

Johnny made

[Mik_Fe]

I try to make some advice in my tactic creation, and i need to tell that your advice are more efficent.. like we don t lose the ball in the final third, beacuse we press high and we cant lose the ball when we are in possession.. so, i put only 2/3 roles with risk passes(bpd,rpm and if, maybe if but i can put iw with different pi than other iw), the forward is a pf with take less risk, the same dm-s.. fb without go forward help to build up the offensive phase, his pi is to stay wider, try to put him to support the phase in all construction.. with this modifies i see the possession like 60/65% in every 6 games that i ve play..

the duo Cm-so and Rpm is fantastic.. cover the pitch and drop off to receive the ball (rpm has direct passes with risk, is the creator).. i like this setup for now..

[ibrahim.akbyk]

1 saat önce, Mik_Fe said:

I try to make some advice in my tactic creation, and i need to tell that your advice are more efficent.. like we don t lose the ball in the final third, beacuse we press high and we cant lose the ball when we are in possession.. so, i put only 2/3 roles with risk passes(bpd,rpm and if, maybe if but i can put iw with different pi than other iw), the forward is a pf with take less risk, the same dm-s.. fb without go forward help to build up the offensive phase, his pi is to stay wider, try to put him to support the phase in all construction.. with this modifies i see the possession like 60/65% in every 6 games that i ve play..

the duo Cm-so and Rpm is fantastic.. cover the pitch and drop off to receive the ball (rpm has direct passes with risk, is the creator).. i like this setup for now..

SK/BPD/RPM is a very very good set-up against high press. FBs and CD could keep possession in a safety way and you have a bwm to disturb oppositions play and an opportunity to win second balls along with CM. I like the set-up. If there is one thing could be thinking about, it would be sacrificing wide. Sometimes, you could be forced against deeper sides. I would consider a MEZ with right foot instead of CM, and a winger with right foot instead of IW on the left side. That way, mez could go wide with ball on the right side and winger could stay wide and then come inside on the left side and you could achieve more wide option in these kind of games.

Edited January 16 by ibrahim.akbyk

[Johnny Ace]

Fantastic @Mik_Fe, now you have your base tactic 

[Mik_Fe]

Milan is the last match with my old tactic... With Spezia is the first with this new setup.. look what a result!! 5 gol conceded in 10 matches (Ceccano is a friendly).. great.. the balance of risk it was the key of this success, we keep possession in the final third better and we dont give the possibilities of counter at the opponent.. great.. I continue with this test.. thanks guys, you open my eyes

[coach vahid]

il y a 27 minutes, Mik_Fe a dit :

Milan is the last match with my old tactic... With Spezia is the first with this new setup.. look what a result!! 5 gol conceded in 10 matches (Ceccano is a friendly).. great.. the balance of risk it was the key of this success, we keep possession in the final third better and we dont give the possibilities of counter at the opponent.. great.. I continue with this test.. thanks guys, you open my eyes

Can you show your set up  with your team ? With TIs and PIs...

[Mik_Fe]

yes!

 

 

This is the setup at this moment and in the last 7 matches (8 if we considering friendly)

 

[Mik_Fe]

The players..

 

[kingjericho]

if it works for you, good. but I don't get why people insist on overloading every position with player instructions and also claim to be inexperienced at creating tactics. just use the simple roles and duties and start from the base presets. it works  

[Mik_Fe]

i never tell "i'm not a tactic expert" 

I want only some advice because sometimes i lost myself in a glass of water.. and I need to reopen mind and eyes...

Edited January 16 by Mik_Fe

[ThomasHK1979]

On 14/01/2024 at 23:01, Mik_Fe said:

Hi everyone!!

Does anyone can help me to find best role for 433 possession based?

I take a look at discussion of Johnny Ace about 433..

My idea for now is:

SK-S

WB-S (both)

CD-D (both)

DM-D (or DLP-D??)

CM-S (or RPM or DLP-S???)

AP- S or AT??

IF-S (both)

DLP-A (or CF-A??)

 

Please, take me some idea to create this tactic.. and if anyone test this type of tactic, tell me some advice! 

thank you so much guys!!!

This works extremely well for me. 
 

SK-S

IFB-D (both)

BPD-D (left)

Libero-D (right)

RPM

CM-A (right)

B2B (Left)

AMR Winger-S

AML Winger-A

AF or CF-A

[sovy666]

Il 16/1/2024 in 22:13 , Mik_Fe ha scritto:

i never tell "i'm not a tactic expert" 

I want only some advice because sometimes i lost myself in a glass of water.. and I need to reopen mind and eyes...

Although we could speak in Italian (I think) let's keep it English for everyone.
I would like to know what you try to do if the tactic doesn't click. For example to try to score at the end of a match or if you want to protect a lead or if you can't keep the ball as usual. Do you keep the faith or do you tweak something?
This is one of the aspects that I fail to focus on despite at least 20 years of playing experience and would like to see more often in posts in which tactics are presented.

[Aoyao]

On 16/01/2024 at 02:04, Johnny Ace said:

Yeah, I'm not fussed about possession, though I'm sure I did in the 4-3-3 DM thread, I'll have a look but any 4-3-3 with FBs over WBs is a good start  

 

Exactly, think about it, 3 playmakers in midfield all looking to play risky passes into space, both wingbacks looking to dribble frequently, they can easily mispass or get tackled 

When to tweak tempo in the game?

[Aoyao]

On 17/01/2024 at 04:42, Mik_Fe said:

yes!

 

 

This is the setup at this moment and in the last 7 matches (8 if we considering friendly)

 

Why do you set more direct pass in the PI?