Data Hub Analysis

[Alekos]

Hello guys

I have decided to take a closer look in data hub trying to address some problems for my team...First of all I have to say that I am not sure if I read them right...

Even though the team is performing well above the average team in the League in my opinion I concede more goals than expected and many shots and from the data hub the main problem that I have found is the that we infrequently win the ball and we are the bottom in this category even that our possession and passing is good...

I attach the graphs and my team formation in order to be more specific 

Any help or any guide to study will be much appreciated!!

Edited December 3, 2023 by Alekos

[Poison]

I think it's a players issue, Palacios,Sporar, Bernard all don't have aggression (though Palacios has extreme work rate), so I guess this is it. I'd try switching to 433, bring Mancini next to Arao and Bernard left and make Arao a BWM-su, the role fits him and he will be breaking attacks higher up the pitch.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Poison

[Cloud9]

46 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Hello guys

I have decided to take a closer look in data hub trying to address some problems for my team...First of all I have to say that I am not sure if I read them right...

Even though the team is performing well above the average team in the League in my opinion I concede more goals than expected and many shots and from the data hub the main problem that I have found is the that we infrequently win the ball and we are the bottom in this category even that our possession and passing is good...

I attach the graphs and my team formation in order to be more specific 

Any help or any guide to study will be much appreciated!!

Two wingbacks on attack in a back 4 is defensive suicide. 

[dzek]

@Alekos πήρες την κούπα αδερφέ;

[chvrches]

I don’t know what your possession numbers look like but usually teams that have high avg possession don’t win the ball back as much simply because they have the ball so often. Can’t win the ball back if you already have the ball.

[Alekos]

17 hours ago, Poison said:

I think it's a players issue, Palacios,Sporar, Bernard all don't have aggression (though Palacios has extreme work rate), so I guess this is it. I'd try switching to 433, bring Mancini next to Arao and Bernard left and make Arao a BWM-su, the role fits him and he will be breaking attacks higher up the pitch.

Maybe it's a players issue but still the stats are a bit weird as you can see in the following sheets...

16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Two wingbacks on attack in a back 4 is defensive suicide. 

Changed them to support nothing really changed

16 hours ago, dzek said:

@Alekos πήρες την κούπα αδερφέ;

Όχι ακόμα λόγο του θέματος που δεν μπορώ να ανακτήσω κατοχή και μου κάνουν ένα κάρο σουτ και τα τρώω

10 hours ago, chvrches said:

I don’t know what your possession numbers look like but usually teams that have high avg possession don’t win the ball back as much simply because they have the ball so often. Can’t win the ball back if you already have the ball.

Not the case as you can see in the attached screenshots...AEK is 3rd in average possession and top on winning it back...

 

So we are TOP in possession and pass completion ratio and last at winning it back and this is a big problem because the opposition makes so many chances against us and scores lots of goals... I cannot even hold a clean sheet....

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Alekos

[Poison]

@Alekos Another thing to try is to narrow the width and use much shorter passing, I see you lose possession sometimes, maybe check "run at defense" too so that the players will pass less and try to get past their opponents, you have good players for this.

[Alekos]

On 04/12/2023 at 16:34, Poison said:

@Alekos Another thing to try is to narrow the width and use much shorter passing, I see you lose possession sometimes, maybe check "run at defense" too so that the players will pass less and try to get past their opponents, you have good players for this.

OK i changed my formation to 433 and I applied the above, I dominate possession even more but how is it possible to get so many chances and goals against me??

Something I don't understand...In real life with those numbers in possession is very rare to concede so many chances and goals in every single game....

[dannyfc]

I'm also struggling on the possession won and can't seem to move the dial. Tried counter-press, high defensive line, high closing down, but we're always amongst the worst in the team league. 

 

[Poison]

1 hour ago, Alekos said:

Something I don't understand...In real life with those numbers in possession is very rare to concede so many chances and goals in every single game....

That is not entirely true, some teams can consistently create chances with very few possession (Ligue 1 for example comes to mind). But  if you feel it's constant, maybe report it as a bug here and the SI team will check it out.

[Cloud9]

3 hours ago, Alekos said:

OK i changed my formation to 433 and I applied the above, I dominate possession even more but how is it possible to get so many chances and goals against me??

At the moment your tactic is all in on containing the opposition (double pivot in the CM strata, two wingbacks going forward, step up more, counter press etc.). A TI like prevent short GK distribution is counter productive for what you're trying to do. Once the opposition turnover possession they're easily in on goal and that's showing in the numbers.

Height on the DM or playing the pivot in the DM strata helps to reduce counters with a pressing style significantly. You need specific player profiles to be defensively resolute w/an approach like this.

Pace in the backline helps as well. Your current center back partnership is slow as (10,12 + 13,13) and every attacking lineup can run past you with that. Both wingbacks are going forward so they won't be in position to defend counter attacks and the SK has no physical presence to sweep up behind them. He's also got Aerial Reach 12 which is its own disaster. Again, there's no safety net for when they beat your press and once they've actually got the ball all they have to do is poke it into space and you're done.

If you want to set out to continue controlling games w/ the current set of players, move your Defensive line back to standard or at least have one of the quicker fullbacks sit back. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Cloud9

[Andros]

what type of shots are the opposition getting off?  Are they lots of counter attacks (my 1st thought looking at your tactic) or are they coming from another method?

[Alekos]

On 05/12/2023 at 22:30, Cloud9 said:

At the moment your tactic is all in on containing the opposition (double pivot in the CM strata, two wingbacks going forward, step up more, counter press etc.). A TI like prevent short GK distribution is counter productive for what you're trying to do. Once the opposition turnover possession they're easily in on goal and that's showing in the numbers.

Height on the DM or playing the pivot in the DM strata helps to reduce counters with a pressing style significantly. You need specific player profiles to be defensively resolute w/an approach like this.

Pace in the backline helps as well. Your current center back partnership is slow as (10,12 + 13,13) and every attacking lineup can run past you with that. Both wingbacks are going forward so they won't be in position to defend counter attacks and the SK has no physical presence to sweep up behind them. He's also got Aerial Reach 12 which is its own disaster. Again, there's no safety net for when they beat your press and once they've actually got the ball all they have to do is poke it into space and you're done.

If you want to set out to continue controlling games w/ the current set of players, move your Defensive line back to standard or at least have one of the quicker fullbacks sit back. 

I tried this but now even I do not concede many goals(but still) I also score less too...I have only the right WB on attack a DM on Defend a BWM(R) on Defend and a DLP(L) on support

On 06/12/2023 at 01:59, Andros said:

what type of shots are the opposition getting off?  Are they lots of counter attacks (my 1st thought looking at your tactic) or are they coming from another method?

Yes many are from counter attacks and the rest are from throw ins or corners...My players rarely do mistakes but when the ball is lost we cannot get it back unless the opponent finishes the attacking movement....

Edited December 7, 2023 by Alekos

[Andros]

4 hours ago, Alekos said:

 

Yes many are from counter attacks and the rest are from throw ins or corners...My players rarely do mistakes but when the ball is lost we cannot get it back unless the opponent finishes the attacking movement....

Ok, so looking at your tactic, it kind of reminds me of liverpool before they changed this year.  Imagine Trent and Robinson bombing forward while van Dijk and Konate and left on their own, with a really high line.  If they don't get their offside trap right, then the opposition will look to get the ball forward as quickly as possibly to take advantage of the empty FB positions and if the CBs dont do a good job, then if 1 of the CBs are beaten, they have a clear run to goal.

 

Cloud9 has given good advice on how to deal with this, and he is much better at tactics than i am!

[Hilly1979]

On 03/12/2023 at 21:28, Cloud9 said:

Two wingbacks on attack in a back 4 is defensive suicide. 

Not if you’ve got players covering for them, can work very well

[DarJ]

On 04/12/2023 at 14:26, Alekos said:

Not the case as you can see in the attached screenshots...AEK is 3rd in average possession and top on winning it back..

I disagree with you because although they are 3rd for average position if you look at the possession graph you lose the ball a lot less compared to them so it makes sense that you don't win the ball back a lot because you usually don't give away he ball

[crusadertsar]

On 08/12/2023 at 02:55, Hilly1979 said:

Not if you’ve got players covering for them, can work very well

Exactly! Especially if you are using a defensively solid DM double pivot. 

[Hilly1979]

24 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Exactly! Especially if you are using a defensively solid DM double pivot. 

Very true, that sort of set up as worked extremely well for me in the past

[Poison]

3 hours ago, DarJ said:

I disagree with you because although they are 3rd for average position if you look at the possession graph you lose the ball a lot less compared to them so it makes sense that you don't win the ball back a lot because you usually don't give away he ball

Pretty sure that's not how this statistic is working...

[Cloud9]

2 hours ago, Hilly1979 said:

Very true, that sort of set up as worked extremely well for me in the past

I am probably more conservative in my approach to the game, but I could never justify running more than a WB(a) + WB(s). Having two players drive to the byline always feels like you're leaving big gaps at the back. 

[Hilly1979]

1 hour ago, Cloud9 said:

I am probably more conservative in my approach to the game, but I could never justify running more than a WB(a) + WB(s). Having two players drive to the byline always feels like you're leaving big gaps at the back. 

Even with both wing backs flying forward you can still keep 4/5 players back covering.

A lot of the time they don’t seem to fly forward at the same time anyway,