Replicating Milan’s Pioli

[ThomasHK1979]

Does anyone know if there have been made a similar thread as the amazing one @Rashididid on FC Bayern? That thread was one of the best and most helpful I’ve ever seen.

 

[gennamitico]

milan pioli tactic is basically pass to leao or hernandez and hope for something 

[ThomasHK1979]

1 minute ago, gennamitico said:

milan pioli tactic is basically pass to leao or hernandez and hope for something 

Absolutely not.

[DarJ]

55 minutes ago, gennamitico said:

milan pioli tactic is basically pass to leao or hernandez and hope for something 

You sound like you didn’t watch any of the games

[DarJ]

So this is all theory.

starting from the back they like to play out with one of the double pivots (Tonali or Kessie) dropping deep to receive the ball. The GK’s (Maignan) distribution is really good so sometimes when they are under pressure or when there’s space, he launches the ball either towards the wing where Leao is or to the striker (Giroud/Zlatan). Calabria’s starting position (RB) is usually slightly deeper than that of Hernandez (LB). Theo Hernandez loves to run with the ball and because Leao playing in front of him likes to start very wide, you’ll see Hernandez driving through the middle a lot.

on the wings, Leao likes to receive the ball deep and dribble past players to either cut in and cross or shoot. On the right hand side, Salemakers is more of a winger and the position he takes depends on what’s around him so will usually start wide and when the ball is in his side, the team will shift to that side and if he decides to hold width, Calabria makes runs insides while Tonali will usually cover for him on the right. 
The attacking midfielder has more of a free role, he drops deep to receive the ball, shift side to side to create overloads. 
The striker role is interesting because depending on who is playing there the team changes how they play. When Zlatan plays, he’s more of a DLF, he comes deep and helps in buildup drawing out defenders but when Giroud plays, they don’t use him much in build up but in the final third providing crosses for him.

pressing wise they like to press from the front, they are one of the leading pressing teams in Serie A especially in the final third and if you watched the last game against Sassuolo all 3 goals came from them pressing.

[Rashidi]

Seeing as Milan is one of my favourite teams in Serie A I could do one very soon

[gennamitico]

4 ore fa, DarJ ha scritto:

You sound like you didn’t watch any of the games

I was joking obviously…..or maybe not. I’m an Inter fan so you can find a bit of malice there. I really like their pressing style and their solidity in defence but it is not a mistery that leao and hernandez made the fortunes of Milan to win the serie A title

[Rashidi]

Pioli has used both the 4231 and the 433 this season, the challenge is getting those wingbacks high up the pitch and occasionally turning Tonali into a beast in the final third. Milan gets most of its dangerous attacks going when Calabria and Hernandez do their crazy runs. Hernandez is comfortable doing inside runs whenever Leao holds up the ball, and then Leao has to be able to bust a gut and keep up with the speed merchant.

Against teams like Genoa with the ball they tend to be a bit more open, without the ball there are more spaces which is understandable. Against sides like Atalanta, you see both the attacking fervour and the occasional craziness.  I am referring to the 3-2 win. 

Now as far as the wider wingers are concerned, they WILL ALWAYS look to cover for the mad dashery of the wingbacks. So if Hernandez goes on his fleet footed punch up the pitch. Leao will give him a head start before he starts running after him. At times it does look a bit comical, but its very effective against good sides like Atalanta.

Their press is entirely based on triggers which is easy to achieve on FM.

The striker role depends.. so a simple cut and paste wont do it has to work for both teams. And when Giroud plays he leads the press as well. When he presses the others just close angles. Pioli has worked some magic on AC Milan, last season they were looking good with their 4231, but I felt they would do better with the 433. Pioli has been influenced by Klopp to some extent with how he gets the fullbacks to do runs into dangerous areas. So yeah definitely coming out with a tactic. The video might go out tomorrow if I can pull it off.  I know I have a tactic like that lying around in my dropbox folder. I was messing with one earlier this season for AC. The video will be the same like the recent one where I did Crafting a 3412, where i explain the transitions, the roles and how they come together. For Milan I plan to give more stats to see if we can get the same kind of numbers.

 

Piolis style has changed a bit from last season so I am going to go with the 433 since he has adapted some of Klopps pressing and the way he uses the backs and make those players do those runs|
 

Edit: 433 is the safe choice, but 4231 could be the direction... so undecided. Cos they have used both formations

[kandersson]

Could be a good chance to use the Wide target man role (Leao) as the Maignan-to-Leao long pass has been a recurring and effective play for Milan this year.

[Rashidi]

At least we dont have to worry about a lot of goals :-(

 

[Rashidi]

18 minutes ago, kandersson said:

Could be a good chance to use the Wide target man role (Leao) as the Maignan-to-Leao long pass has been a recurring and effective play for Milan this year.

The moment i used a 4231 and set Leao to a WTM he and Hernandez (IWB(A)) had an instant partnership even before the first kick of the regular season

[Rashidi]

6 hours ago, DarJ said:

they are one of the leading pressing teams in Serie A especially in the final third

Do you have any data for this? I could use it. 

hmm my first version of the tactic is a 4231 it put 7 past Salernitana, which well they are relegation bound, but its still too high.

[DarJ]

5 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Do you have any data for this? I could use it. 

hmm my first version of the tactic is a 4231 it put 7 past Salernitana, which well they are relegation bound, but its still too high.

this is from Fbref

Edited May 25, 2022 by DarJ

[Rashidi]

I found it, they led the league in final third pressure

[Rashidi]

We both went to the same place LOL

[ThomasHK1979]

6 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Seeing as Milan is one of my favourite teams in Serie A I could do one very soon

Yes yes yes🙏🙏🙏

[fraudiola]

lol funny how people actually respond to a Milan tactic post now that they've won something. 

here are some things to think about -

• they love to press high intelligently, especially with rebic (beginning and end of the season). a short passing, low tempo (sometimes way too slow) style when in possession but very quick and direct counters, focus attack down the left through leao and theo, but by relying on the pair so much also caused Milan a lot of trouble where teams just defended that wing hard since they knew Milan's right wing weren't much of a threat with saladmaker and messias lacking end product. 
• giroud played a TM or DLF role while ibra played some sort of hybrid DLF/TM treq(?) role when he was available, knocking ball on from long balls, linking play, dropping extremely deep at times to help build up play. 
• imo with both giroud and ibra dropping deep often plus opposition teams already defending deep and narrow and with most teams in the serie a fielding 3 CBs limited space for the CAM brahim to operate in due to primarily his lack of strength to hold defenders off vs beginning of the season with rebic playing as a PF, making runs behind, pinning back the opposition opening space for brahim to run into with the ball which was when he was in terrific form and people were praising the board for sticking by brahim instead of purchasing a new CAM to replace hakan. this was also evident when he came on as a sub in the 2nd league game against inter where inter weren't just dropping deep and defending narrow like most sides, allowing brahim plenty of space to run into. 
• with brahim's form dipping and pioli seemingly losing faith in him, kessie/krunic were deployed in some key matches as a destroyer in the CAM position for their defensive capabilities to man mark an opposition key player, such as the 2nd game vs inter where krunic marked brozovic out of the game which imo had a heavy impact on inter's tactic and subdued them to an extent. 
• the CBs like to stay much wider now with kalulu and tomori having the speed to get back into position extremely quickly with kessie or isma dropping deep in the vacated space, compared to earlier in the season and last season with kjaer + tomori combination where one acted as a stopper with the other as cover while kessie provided cover on the left for theo. 
• calabria lately stays wide to allow tonali room to make runs forward
• magic mike is amazing with the ball at his feet, has 1 assist i think, launches plenty of long pass counters with some of them leading to goals, and he's quick on his feet to come out. hard to believe they could get such a high upgrade when dollarumma left
• salamander stays out wide and also has an extremely high work rate. as poor as he has been in the final third, his work rate and defensive contribution is undeniable, winning the ball back on multiple occasions 

but some aspects are impossible to recreate in FM.

• theo runs at where the space is, be it out wide or down the center. he would be what FM's CWB and IWB are but combined. he'll sit narrow and make runs down the center or out wide, sit wide and make overlapping runs or cut in, always looking to draw fouls. you really can't lock him down to one role if you want to be true to theo IRL. 
• calabria is a much more conservative version of theo and he tends to stay wider and if he comes narrow it'll usually be towards the final third, doesn't make flashy runs with the ball like theo 
• in certain games with theo and calabria pushed way up, both CBs go out wide in fullback position with the CMs dropping deep like CBs to provide passing options. (i believe this a game where the other team had 2 men sent off which was why it was very obvious and a bit extreme)
• wingers in the CM strata would suit how Milan's two wide players actually behave. you'll rarely see leao come narrow without the ball unlike how an AML in FM works regardless of duty. he likes to stay out wide and wait for the ball and run at the defender, forcing the defender to open space for him to cut in or run at the byline for a cross or cut back. similar applies to sekemeker who stays wide and even with the ball rarely cuts in unless hes forced to. 
• the way the defense behaves with the ball as mentioned above also can't be replicated in FM. closest you can get is if you play one CM as HB in an asymmetric formation but IRL both/either CMs can drop deep depending on the situation.  

 

I'm no football or FM expert so I'm missing a lot of the finer details but I've pointed out the obvious aspects of how they played this season in my eyes and the downfalls. imo trying to stay as true as possible to the way Milan play IRL in FM would not bode well. 

 

[Johnny Ace]

I haven't watched a minute of Milan this season but reading the descriptions you guy's are putting up is pretty interesting, would love to see it all put together in FM

[ThomasHK1979]

31 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I haven't watched a minute of Milan this season but reading the descriptions you guy's are putting up is pretty interesting, would love to see it all put together in FM

Well I’ve been a Milan fan since 1988 and haven’t missed a single game for years so I’m pretty excited that my beloved club finally gets the attention they deserve🙏

[Johnny Ace]

6 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Well I’ve been a Milan fan since 1988 and haven’t missed a single game for years so I’m pretty excited that my beloved club finally gets the attention they deserve🙏

Have you had a try? You could easily start a Milan save purely to play around with

You could start from the top

Sounds like a DLF for Giroud, they're tricky to get right in a 4-2-3-1 so I'd start with a Complete Forward as they drop off, hold up the ball similar to a DLF or TF, then work backwards

  

[DarJ]

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

he likes to stay out wide and wait for the ball and run at the defender, forcing the defender to open space for him to cut in or run at the byline for a cross or cut back. similar applies to sekemeker who stays wide and even with the ball rarely cuts in unless hes forced to

The wide midfielder role can do this but I’ve not used it in FM 22 yet so I don’t know if how they behave has changed 

[Johnny Ace]

I see @Rashidi 's already on case 

[ThomasHK1979]

He posted this video. 

 

[Johnny Ace]

That's what I was suggesting without posting it here  Looks like he had fun with it 

[ThomasHK1979]

5 hours ago, fraudiola said:

dont agree with some of it but i guess you gotta make concessions to have it work in FM

What would you do different?

 

[eXistenZ]

yeah id definitly switch the central midfield in roles. WTM is also a very odd choice

[ThomasHK1979]

10 hours ago, fraudiola said:

hes got calabria and theo set up the same whereas calabria is nowhere as adventurous nor does he actually sit narrow like theo would. calabria tends to come narrow in the final third, outside the box to offer an extra pass option. calabria has been staying wide with the rise of tonali, to allow tonali space to push forward

i wouldnt classify kessie as a playmaker, certainly not in terms of his capabilities IRL but i guess he has the attributes for it in game, but in IRL bennacer is the actual playmaker, dropping deep, while kessie or tonali plays the more adventurous role. tail end of the season has been kessie + tonali, kessie stays back to covers for theo's runs, break down attacks while tonali played B2B. 

CAM is just a mess IRL so do whatever 

playing leao as WTM is weird, i guess the team always looking to try and play direct passes to him on the counter is the thought behind WTM, to get him to attract the long balls, but the WTM has a built in dribble less PI

and as i said before, AML AMR in FM push towards the center off the ball when in opposition's final third while LM and RM stay wide which is how both wingers behave IRL but thats also one of the reasons Milan have trouble scoring and being stale in the final third IRL which is what you would run into in the game too i believe which is why i understand playing them AML AMR in game. 

distribution - goalkick distribution to CB who play out the back while in transition distribution the keeper looks to throw the ball out quick to theo or a long pass to leao for the counter 

Both the CM roles switch turns to go deep and pick up the ball. I would put Theo on CWBatt or FBatt with more dribbling. And Leao as a IW stay wider with more dribbling. Salad actually comes quite narrow and often works like a 10. I would put AML/AMC/AMR roam from position.