Tactical Shape

[soft tofu]

Hello everyone. I've been seeing a lot of team playing with a back three. Rather than starting with three centre back, they play with a back four with one of the full back staying deep and playing like a centre back eg Bayern Munich, Manchester City and Tottenham under Mourinho. I'm not sure if the ME allows you to do it though. Note that Bayern and Spurs uses 4-2-3-1 as their base formation while City uses 4-3-3.

I would start with 4-3-3 and get into 3-2-5 with my right fullback playing like a centre back.

 

The 3-2-5 shape I want to have.

I'll be starting with this tactic and see where I need to change. If anyone have any suggestion I'm happy to listen to it.

Edited August 2, 2021 by soft tofu

[jeerinho]

You can experiment with Sit Narrower (enabled by default on IWB roles) on the rightback and Stay Wider on the left centreback.

[Jack722]

I'd be interested to see how you get on.

I've tried something like this before (inspired by Italy at the Euros) and wasn't very happy with my results. I felt that the back three was too lopsided with a FBd, and the right winger in the AMR position doesn't actually hug the touchline all the way into the attacking phase. They look to support the striker more by tucking in narrow. Wingers in a 4141 or 442 stay wider in the attack, but then this affects the pressing shape.

[soft tofu]

29 minutes ago, jeerinho said:

You can experiment with Sit Narrower (enabled by default on IWB roles) on the rightback and Stay Wider on the left centreback.

I've had a tactic with an IWB before but when using a traditional wingback, they still bomb on the flank quite a lot and aren't really deep when in possession. When I used a natural midfielder who can also play as right back, I do get less flank movement but still not as defensively positioned as I wanted.

23 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

I'd be interested to see how you get on.

I've tried something like this before (inspired by Italy at the Euros) and wasn't very happy with my results. I felt that the back three was too lopsided with a FBd, and the right winger in the AMR position doesn't actually hug the touchline all the way into the attacking phase. They look to support the striker more by tucking in narrow. Wingers in a 4141 or 442 stay wider in the attack, but then this affects the pressing shape.

I've tried a 4-1-4-1 before. Two wingers on attack and a false nine. Although wingers tend to stay wider more, they're a bit selfish. Not crossing when there're players in the box which is why I'm starting to use them less. Italy is also one reason why I'm trying to make this 3-2-5 to work again.

Edited August 2, 2021 by soft tofu

[soft tofu]

First match using this tactic. Changed AMR to Inverted Winger.

Pretty good although the fullback is far too wide.

[soft tofu]

Tried a 4-4-2 Asymmetrical from 

He used WB-De with stay narrow.

Forgot to give stay wider PI to CBR but keep in mind that at this point all my RB have stay back at all time trait.

 

[soft tofu]

Changed the tactic again.

Really surprised how well this tactic turns out.

As you can see, the CBL didn't sit that wide at least in this average position. During highlight, he does go to half space but RB aren't that narrow still. For this game I played an RB that don't have stay back at all time trait.

[jeerinho]

Something also you can try is what I call "shifting the centre". DMC --> DMCR. STC --> STCR. Focus passing to the right. Overload the right. It leaves plenty of space on the left for your DL to attack.

[soft tofu]

9 hours ago, jeerinho said:

Something also you can try is what I call "shifting the centre". DMC --> DMCR. STC --> STCR. Focus passing to the right. Overload the right. It leaves plenty of space on the left for your DL to attack.

To be honest I'm not a fan of asymmetrical formation. Not that it's not effective but it hurts my eyes. But I'll give it a try. That will create a natural overload on the right creating more space on the left.

[soft tofu]

Made another change. Gotta say that WB-De seems to be better than FB-De or maybe it's just bias. From the previous tactic, both DLP-Su and BWM-Su push higher camping in front of the penalty box. It does give more option in front but it leaves space in front of the defense. So comes in DLP-De and BWM-De. I want those two to be double pivot.

And looks good in possession.

RB plays like a CB but when team's pushing he join occassionally. Not that bad I guess. But when out of possession, the two pivot became a bit too deep.

[RDF Tactics]

This thread looks like fun!!

[soft tofu]

29 minutes ago, RDF Tactics said:

This thread looks like fun!!

Woah. Is this the same RDF on Youtube? Love your tactics.

[soft tofu]

Maybe I'll ditch 4-3-3 and use 4-4-2 instead. I feel like 4-4-2 is more defensively solid.

Trying this with Derby, The idea is still the same. One fullback stays deep and narrow while the other provide the width. Both wingers will push forward. MR is instructed to stay wider while ML stay narrower. Both instructed to go further forward. Hopefully they will occupy the AMCL and AMR space respectively. Striker is on the right slot as I want him to drop a little deeper and occupy the AMCR spot then the SS can use the space behind. DLP already came with hold position and CM have been given hold position as well. CBL have stay wider like the other tactics. With this 4-4-2 rather than pressing high, I want a mid block that can limit the opponent but will counter press if ball is lost.

Playing against Barnsley who play 523. ML made run behind the defend to score.

[soft tofu]

Pretty happy with how this turns out. We won the ball from our own box. Cleared it to my striker but instead of going forward he passes to the LB. #39(WM-Att) and #38(DLP-Sup) overloaded on the left and the ball get to #47(LCB) who's staying wide. He made a pass to #10(Shadow Striker) who then flick the ball to #40(IW-Att) but he misses the chance. As you see, #43(WB-De) stayed deeper and is actually mirrors LCB position. For this, I changed my Shadow Striker from central to the right side while my DLF in the middle.

Tried this with Manchester City but it was rubbish. Derby had lots of chances but few goals.

Edited August 3, 2021 by soft tofu

[soft tofu]

Pretty happy with how this tactic going. More space for the forward to run into and they're naturally starting deeper. WP occupies no 10 position. DLP and BWM stays outside the box. Got the 3-2-5 shape most of the time. Haven't lost a game in the season so pretty good.

[Fatkidscantjump]

I enjoyed reading your tactical experiments. Are you still trying to crack the 325 code ? I feel like Fm needs some kind of inverted full back role.

[Hilly1979]

48 minutes ago, Fatkidscantjump said:

I enjoyed reading your tactical experiments. Are you still trying to crack the 325 code ? I feel like Fm needs some kind of inverted full back role.

It has…….

[Fatkidscantjump]

il y a 27 minutes, Hilly1979 a dit :

It has…….

That is news to me. I swear the closest thing to it ive seen are iwbs and its nearly impossible to make them behave like a centreback in possession even on defend duty.

Perhaps a more suited term instead of inverted full back would be wide defender, or even half-wingback. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Fatkidscantjump

[soft tofu]

6 hours ago, Fatkidscantjump said:

That is news to me. I swear the closest thing to it ive seen are iwbs and its nearly impossible to make them behave like a centreback in possession even on defend duty.

Perhaps a more suited term instead of inverted full back would be wide defender, or even half-wingback.

I used WBde to get the back three shape. I can't see 325 in goal kick as fullback always start wide but if my team win back possession in their own half, I do occasionally see a back three.

IWBde didn't behave like a CB but more like a DM.

On 03/08/2021 at 23:46, soft tofu said:

Pretty happy with how this turns out. We won the ball from our own box. Cleared it to my striker but instead of going forward he passes to the LB. #39(WM-Att) and #38(DLP-Sup) overloaded on the left and the ball get to #47(LCB) who's staying wide. He made a pass to #10(Shadow Striker) who then flick the ball to #40(IW-Att) but he misses the chance. As you see, #43(WB-De) stayed deeper and is actually mirrors LCB position. For this, I changed my Shadow Striker from central to the right side while my DLF in the middle.

This is the closest 325 that I get as the new tactic with 2 SS is more fast attacking.

[_mxrky]

I've managed to get somewhat close to a 325 with a standard 442 (forgot to add cb to stay wider:

 

 

I use this tactic to get the shape 

[resnuputra]

maybe u could try this one mate with 4-3-3 dm wide.

                 F9

IF-A                    IW-S

        DLP-S Mez- A

                HB

CWB-S CD BPD IWB-S

this should form 3-2-5

         IF     Mez

CWB     F9        IW

        DLP   IWB

CD        HB      BPD

Cheers mate 

[04texag]

On 02/08/2021 at 06:27, soft tofu said:

Hello everyone. I've been seeing a lot of team playing with a back three. Rather than starting with three centre back, they play with a back four with one of the full back staying deep and playing like a centre back eg Bayern Munich, Manchester City and Tottenham under Mourinho. I'm not sure if the ME allows you to do it though. Note that Bayern and Spurs uses 4-2-3-1 as their base formation while City uses 4-3-3.

I would start with 4-3-3 and get into 3-2-5 with my right fullback playing like a centre back.

 

The 3-2-5 shape I want to have.

I'll be starting with this tactic and see where I need to change. If anyone have any suggestion I'm happy to listen to it.

I really like the FB-AU, with hold position. This works well and they will still occasionally get forward when the situation is right for it. Give that a shot. 

[soft tofu]

2 hours ago, 04texag said:

I really like the FB-AU, with hold position. This works well and they will still occasionally get forward when the situation is right for it. Give that a shot. 

I have never really use an automatic duty before and in a support duty they just act like a normal fullback. I'll try.

[soft tofu]

On 15/09/2021 at 22:35, _mxrky said:

I've managed to get somewhat close to a 325 with a standard 442 (forgot to add cb to stay wider:

 

 

I use this tactic to get the shape 

I try to avoid using AF as my CBs tend to pass straight to him. And when I use CM, he always goes into the box which leave the DLP alone so I add hold position to him. I wanted to see one of the winger act like a winger. Crossing from the byline, and the closest thing is WM with crossing from the byline PI. When I use IW, they really take cutting inside to a whole new level. Which I think due to low attributes.