[FM20] Voltaço

[karanhsingh]

@_Ben_ et al - sorry if this is out of place but wanted some advice. I seem to have landed a little gem in my youth intake - 15 years old, 2 star CA, 4-5 star PA. Lot of big clubs have been putting in offers for him. 

Issue is he has 6 for determination along with unambitious personality. His media handling style is level headed which I think means at least decent professionalism.

What is the best way to develop someone like this, leave him in the U19s with a hard training regime, or promote and get him mentored right away? I am leaning towards the former as I am not sure he should be training with the senior players at such a young age.

[_Ben_]

New Signings

Rolling back the years to bring some Brazilians back home...

[OlivierL]

1 hour ago, _Ben_ said:

In the first few posts, I've outlined the personalities and media handling styles that I am after in this save.

Yes saw that post , i thinks that my top six are the six best personalities concerning prof. I'm going to splits the rest and give priority to good Prof - Det - Amb ranges.

[karanhsingh]

What do you guys think of setting up the attributes with the below multiplying factors position wise?

I want to maintain this for my game. I divided outfield players into 6 broad positions - DC, WB, DM, AM, Wingers and Forwards. Each attribute then gets multiplied be the corresponding factor, totaled and then an average is taken, which finally is adjusted for weaker foot rating like Ben does. 

Would love some feedback as I am setting it up for my new save now.

[OlivierL]

1 hour ago, karanhsingh said:

What do you guys think of setting up the attributes with the below multiplying factors position wise?

I want to maintain this for my game. I divided outfield players into 6 broad positions - DC, WB, DM, AM, Wingers and Forwards. Each attribute then gets multiplied be the corresponding factor, totaled and then an average is taken, which finally is adjusted for weaker foot rating like Ben does. 

Would love some feedback as I am setting it up for my new save now.

U can use this, what do u mean with the corresponding factor ? what FM is suggesting is more important for that role/position/duty ?

[karanhsingh]

1 minute ago, OlivierL said:

U can use this, what do u mean with the corresponding factor ? what FM is suggesting is more important for that role/position/duty ?

Well I looked at that but mostly I came up with it myself... you can see the numbers used for each attribute / position, goes from 0 to 1.5

[OlivierL]

One more question @_Ben_ or someone else (maybe u explained , sorry). If a player is a Model Citizen , he has 14-20 as determination. Does that mean he'll have at least 14 as determination attribute ?  and he can get till 20 if he is developed correctly ?

I'm thinking about doing something with this :

15 / 20 - 14 / 20 and 12 / 20 looks great for Model Citizen but if u look to the Prof - Det and amb hidden stats only( most important for youth development)  then I could calculate an average of how much 15/20 , 14/20 and 12/20 is... and so on.  This means that e.g. an 11 - 17 as prof stat (personality Spirited) must be calculated differently as a 14-20

Is it fair to say that Prof - Det and Ambition are the most important 'hidden' stats for player development at young age?

And Pressure, Temperament , Loyality and Sportmanship are hidden stats that are more linked to playing games and developing at an older age ?

Or am i wrong ?

Edited June 10, 2020 by OlivierL

[OlivierL]

2 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

Well I looked at that but mostly I came up with it myself... you can see the numbers used for each attribute / position, goes from 0 to 1.5

That is what i did.. my center backs don't have to score 16 out of 20 on all the Central defender attributes.. i select them because they have to fit how i want to play.

 

[_Ben_]

Debut

Just 16 years and 21 days old...

[_Ben_]

June/July 2027

We are doing an excellent job of turning defeat into a draw and masking the rare poor performance by still collecting a point.

We started well with a good win over bottom of the table Botafogo-PB (not to be confused with Serie A Botafogo) which was capped with the Valdinei screamer I made a gif of. We were awful against both Chape and Santa Cruz and gaining two points was very useful for morale. The CSA game was a worry for me, as they were top at the time but we played well and deserved more than just a point. Since then, we've dug deep and held our nerve.

I don't know if this is quite promotion form, yet. but I guess I'd be really disappointed if we lost just once and didn't go up. We play Goias next so that will be a really honest test for our promotion credentials.

[_Ben_]

Player Development: Marcio Ricardo

Quoted from his initial post:

"As I'm still very much in the experimental phase of player development within this save - I feel that it's necessary to have some 'dummy data' and by that, players who I don't necessarily feel will be good enough to make the first team and/or make a good profit for the club. Marcio Ricardo, a youngster from my recent intake is very much that type of player"

But I might be wrong...

The left is the screenshot from that post (May 2026) and the right is now (August 2027).

He's not complete - certainly not but he is looking a more and more decent player every time. I can talk about his shortcomings all I want - his heading (and his height of 5'11") and strength is poor and his technique, passing and anticipation is not really as strong as I'd want it to be. However, I really see him as a stopper: someone who steps ahead of the defensive line to win the ball back, avoiding those long balls. He's good good decisions, is pretty quick off the mark and can concentrate well, putting himself in the right position and when the time comes, he's excellent in the tackle and very brave. From there - I foresee that he can just lay off a simple ball to the midfielders and get back on with his game.
 

I found that rotating his individual focuses every three months was just too quick - so I left it on Aerial (Heading and Bravery). I got some decent results for Heading but I found that it was taking time away from the rest of his training - so moved him back to the normal schedule, as seen below, with a focus on passing. This was, his Heading is worked on due to him being a defender and I can focus on those ball playing attributes, to make his outlet as good as it can be.

 

[_Ben_]

August/September 2027

We have overcome a tough August with an unbeaten September and hold a place within the promotion slots now. We sometimes seem really tight at the back butt hen can really quickly switch to looking like we'll conceded whenever! Plenty of goals going forward though, which is a great thing - considering the difficulties I've had over the years and saves.

 

[_Ben_]

Youth Development update

I'm going to try and condense the amount of screenshots from Excel for this part - so here is a list of all three year groups that I have monitored. You can see from the below graphic the overall developments:

Some interesting thoughts - particularly how the third cohort saw much higher progress across the three years than the first two but how the last three intakes have really had people who have started with excellent progress, which coincides with my backroom revamp.

It is Magrao, an average full back who has made the most progress and now sits atop the best developers:

There is a clear rule starting to be seen on this, in terms of necessary things to help players develop. That is further backed up when looking at the overview, based on personalities.

Edited June 11, 2020 by _Ben_

[_Ben_]

2027 Youth Intake

Joao Fernando. Christian. Joabson.

---

We are starting to get through some more positive personalities and media handling styles, as you can see with the increase in ticks on my analysis.

I'm excited for this cohort! I'll get some faces added for the top three that I posted and start looking at how I want to develop them.

[_Ben_]

Potential

Just to build on the above - I have sorted all my players by potential and this is what my staff think:

I completely disagree that Magrao will ever make a solid player given his attribute balance but they seem to think highly of young Joao!

[OlivierL]

8 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

Potential

Just to build on the above - I have sorted all my players by potential and this is what my staff think:

I completely disagree that Magrao will ever make a solid player given his attribute balance but they seem to think highly of young Joao!

Joao looks great !

[_Ben_]

55 minutes ago, OlivierL said:

Joao looks great !

He does - I've given him his face and there is a Ronaldo-esque on that I was tempted to give but he's just not the same type of striker, so I'll save it! I've got a post about my development plans for him too.

[_Ben_]

Player Development: Joao Fernando

In my face pack, there is a face that reminds me a lot of a young Ronaldo, but I'll be saving that for a pacy striker, and Joao is not that. So, instead, both of my strikers, Maicon and he, will be sharing the same blonde hair dye for the foreseeable future.

He is listed as Driven and Level-headed:

• Determination 18-20, Ambition 12-20
• Professionalism 13-20, Loyalty 12-20

Out of the three highly desirable attributes for development - he's certainly Determined and has at least average professionalism and ambition. I will be able to see how he interacts with the rest of the squad to try and get some more clues about this, going forward.

As a striker, he's already quite well rounded:

When I look at your stereotypical tall striker, and I'll take Erling Haaland here and look at his octagon, you'll see a heart shape - strong in all areas except for defending. For a man boy of 6'4", I want some more physical prowess but know that it'll grow over time as he does. I also think he lacks a little bit in the way of finishing, as you'll see in his attributes.

A bit of a strange mix right now - can jump, but not a very accurate header and not the fastest but likes to run with the ball. However, he's full of flair, good on the ball and brave so I think he could really become a lone striker. If you look at the development that Maicon made in his physicality, and consider he was never allocated a focus on this, then I could quite easily see Joao have double figures for pace/acceleration and to be reasonably strong. He'll never be a bully of a centre forward but his technicality means that, if I can get him into half spaces or getting into the box and evading his marker, he'll be great.

When he signs his youth deal, I will initially keep him on the standard ST schedule and then choose Shooting (Finishing, Long Shots, Technique) as his first individual focus - with the aim of improving Finishing to ~14+ (if you look at Erick Fernando, you can see what long term impacts it can have).

He'll almost certainly be ready for some minutes in next years Carioca Championship.

[_Ben_]

Personality Change

When he signed, he was 22 and you can't become a Model Professional in game until you are 23. I used Jaja to welcome to the squad and have no proof that he changed his personality but I am aware that welcoming periods can do this. All I know is that he has 20 for Professionalism and is now the third Model Pro at the club:

With the quality of midfield talent that I have coming through, as seen below, there should be no reason why I can't get these players ready to also become Model Pros once they reach the required age:

[karanhsingh]

@_Ben_ how are you managing to change their personalities - are you mentoring from a young age itself?

The older players you bring in to be the mentors - do you play them often so that their squad status goes up quickly? 

[_Ben_]

Training units

Something I've completed forgotten about, until now.

I normally keep the units as they are - dictated by the position on the pitch that they train at. These units are used whenever there is any training schedule that uses different things for attackers, defenders and goalkeepers (so not physical, for example).

I then get really annoyed when my defensive players don't get better on the ball, knowing that they do less ball work than the offensive players. So I'm having a play around!

I've got my centre backs and some of the holding midfielders in here at the moment but I could well use offensive players who need more defensive work to round them. And, as seen below, I've put the offensive wingbacks in with the attackers:

My thoughts/hopes are that they'll spend more time on their offensive skills and develop them. Holding player Dinamite moves into this role so he can become a little more rounded, for example.

I also forgot that I can put reserve and Under 20 players in here, so Joao Fernando will train with the seniors until he is eligible to play, and move to the squad, next year.

[_Ben_]

6 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

@_Ben_ how are you managing to change their personalities - are you mentoring from a young age itself?

The older players you bring in to be the mentors - do you play them often so that their squad status goes up quickly? 

I haven’t been able to get an ‘older player’ as in a marquee player from outside of Brazil with a good personality yet: Fred is Balanced and Teles is Spirited. But Jaja, for example - was brought in as a normal squad player but also has a great personality. He’s been a key player since day 1 but wasn’t brought in as a tutor. 
 

I’ve mentored these from an earlier age than I normally would because my first team is weaker so it is easier to ‘break into.’ Once they are in the first team, they are mentored and personalities are changing when their hidden attributes reach the required thresholds. 

[keeper#1]

14 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

Training units

I also forgot that I can put reserve and Under 20 players in here, so Joao Fernando will train with the seniors until he is eligible to play, and move to the squad, next year.

I forgot the same thing until the start of this season.  Now, I have my entire B team, which is still a part-time team, training with the first team.

[_Ben_]

48 minutes ago, keeper#1 said:

I forgot the same thing until the start of this season.  Now, I have my entire B team, which is still a part-time team, training with the first team.

How have you found it? In theory, this could be massive but I'll have a look over a few years.

[_Ben_]

Cull

I've done so much work into personalities over the course of these saves that I feel confident doing this, even if it is at the detriment of data collection:

Poor personalities. Poor perceived potential. Out of the club.

---

In the past, stars haven't been hugely accurate when the player has a good personality but I'd be happy to be proven wrong with one of these!

 

[keeper#1]

1 hour ago, _Ben_ said:

How have you found it? In theory, this could be massive but I'll have a look over a few years.

It didn't have much of impact this season because my B team is still filled with inferior 2020 and 2021 intake players.  I'll have to look at the development over the next couple of years.  Because of La Liga registration rules, I can only have three non-EU players registered so those good Qataris are going to have play there for a couple of seasons as I try to use those slots for Al-Shammari, my back-up Qatari goalkeeper because he's on a cheap contract, and ideally a South American forward for the third slot.

[_Ben_]

October/November 2027

A collapse, again.

Santa Cruz. Sao Bento. Remo. Gremio Esportivo Brasil. Games we should have won. Games that would have seen us promoted. Games that we lost due to silly errors, bad selection calls and, not once, in my opinion, by a team with better players and better tactics than ourselves. We can be naive. We are a very young team and maybe that has cost us. 

Next year will be different. 10th. 10th. 5th. Promoted. 

I'm determined to do everything I can to get out of this division next year but also to be in a position whereby we don't re-enter this division in two years time.

Season report, quite rightly, in a separate post...

 

[_Ben_]

2 hours ago, keeper#1 said:

It didn't have much of impact this season because my B team is still filled with inferior 2020 and 2021 intake players.  I'll have to look at the development over the next couple of years.  Because of La Liga registration rules, I can only have three non-EU players registered so those good Qataris are going to have play there for a couple of seasons as I try to use those slots for Al-Shammari, my back-up Qatari goalkeeper because he's on a cheap contract, and ideally a South American forward for the third slot.

I've gone with it as well so I'm going to see what I can do.

I am dreaming of putting all of my players, bar centre backs, into the attacking unit and seeing what results that has in terms of ability to play football...

[OlivierL]

4 hours ago, keeper#1 said:

I forgot the same thing until the start of this season.  Now, I have my entire B team, which is still a part-time team, training with the first team.

Something I did on FM19 but someone suggested that is is not realistic , putting a lot of players in first team unit because the B team players wouldn't train with the first team in real life (maybe once in a week or something).

I'm curious to know if it helps.

Edited June 11, 2020 by OlivierL

[_Ben_]

2027 End of Season

Despite our poor end of season form, I'm really happy with how things are panning out in the grand scheme of things. We've got some really solid players who have performed really well this year:

Geilton won Serie B Young Player with Dinamite his runner up and Maicon won Top Goalscorer - all three of these are academy products and this is exactly what I want this club to stand for. In terms of academy development: Marcio Ricardo has nearly 1800 minutes, Joao Carlos recorded over one thousand, Lorran Pereira Santos just under, Pacheco started seven games and even 16 year old Filipe Marinho featured once he became eligible in mid-June.

What is more - we are scoring goals. Full back Geilton netted nine times and made a further sixteen as his set piece delivery is becoming increasingly important to the board's vision for my playing style, Joao Pedro should have scored more from the IF(a) role wide-left but couldn't repeat the form of Jaderson last year but Andreson stepped up with 15 strikes from his AP(s) role out on the right hand side. Jaja, Dinamite and Fred added six between them - all of them being wonder goals and created a further 18. Basically, goals are not our problem.

Work needs to happen both in the recruitment zone and on the training pitch to ensure that we stay tighter at the back. Nobody wants to win 3-2 when you can win 2-0! Especially when your board also want defensively solid football!

---

Off the field, I have some worries:

We are losing money, and fast. I have spent £2m on the youth setup this year, up £400k from last and, in hindsight, maybe shouldn't have pushed for Junior Coaching upgrades at this time. For comparison, we brought in £1.7m (down £100k from 2026) in TV revenue, and £950k (down £250k from 2026) in gaet receipts, spending the aforementioned £2m on youth as well as a combined £2.5m on player and staff wages (up £100k on last year). 

There are elections coming soon and, with a new President being elected after two terms with my current one, I fear that he'll continue selling over my head to keep this club afloat.

I have sanctioned a £500k sale for Leandro Spadacio and replaced him, for free, with Willian but I think that I'm going to need to find someway to save, or make, funds next year!

---

[_Ben_]

14 minutes ago, OlivierL said:

Something I did on FM19 but someone suggested that is is not realistic , putting a lot of players in first team unit because the B team players wouldn't train with the first team in real life (maybe once in a week or something).

I'm curious to know if it helps.

I agree on the realism - but this is one player who currently can't be registered for the first team but I want him to play Reserve Team football and still experience training with people he'll be training with next year. I would say that it's more realistic than naming him in your first team for a few months but not giving him game time.

I'm hoping that it'll have an impact on other areas - such as goalkeepers. I only tend to have 1 first choice keeper in the first team, so, for him to not train alone, I add the reserve goalkeepers to his unit - this also means my First Team GK coaches work with them, too.

[OlivierL]

5 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

I agree on the realism - but this is one player who currently can't be registered for the first team but I want him to play Reserve Team football and still experience training with people he'll be training with next year. I would say that it's more realistic than naming him in your first team for a few months but not giving him game time.

I'm hoping that it'll have an impact on other areas - such as goalkeepers. I only tend to have 1 first choice keeper in the first team, so, for him to not train alone, I add the reserve goalkeepers to his unit - this also means my First Team GK coaches work with them, too.

That is true, a few players seem ok and not unlogic but 10,20 players. Si should block this but as an exploit or for an experiment, it seems ok .

[_Ben_]

Long Term Thinking

Something I always like to do, especially when I'm preparing for a promotion run, is to look at where we stand in the long term. The below players, I believe, would be good enough to play in the top flight, should we reach it this time next year:

When in their positions, that looks like this:

With Jaja now 32 and his legs fading, I don't think he'll make it - even if he's a good character to have around, Santos and Ricardo are young and untested and will get ripped to shreds by Serie A wingers at this point and  Joao Fernando is a good, dependable, option but probably not good enough. Further down, there is Pacheco, Joao Carlos, Joao Fernando, Filipe Marinho and a host of other youth prospects who have shown promise but they cannot, in their tender years, be trusted to keep us in Serie A - which is the squad that needs building now.

This is my job before the 2028 season kicks off...

[_Ben_]

Strengthening: Part 1

Even though Kenedy will turn 32 in the February after he joins, he's still younger and better than Alex Telles and a step up on poor old Hulk, who has not properly recovered from a serious injury. He'll be a, very offensive, full back and the ex-Chelsea, Getafe and Besiktas player is very very good for this level. Hopefully he'll have enough about him to keep going for three or four years, of which hopefully we'll be in the top flight and his experience will be even more useful.

[_Ben_]

Strengthening: Part 2

Fred just didn't cut it - a Balanced personality and legs that couldn't last 90 minutes in the sweltering Rio heat. Therefore, I have picked up William Rocha Ponce on a free transfer following his Flamengo contract. I'm hoping to work a little bit of magic with the welcoming phase from Andreson and hope he can rub off on him, changing his personality. He provides a little bit of extra defensive mettle in the DM role next to Dinamite and in rotation with the ageing Jaja.

That leaves my 'Best XI' looking something like this:

It's a young squad, with an average age of just 23 but it's not far from modelled in the light that I want it to be. It's maybe slightly light in the centre of defence and it is almost certainly light outside of the first XI but it's a squad that I think could have a crack at this title...

[_Ben_]

Do I have Serie A level players? Quick analysis

I said three posts back that I have players who could play in Serie A, so now I'm actually going to make use of the reason why I turned attribute masking off - a comparison. I've take my best player (or at least one of the three players I am most proud of being among the best, Geilton)

I figured that I could just pick right backs in Serie A who are Star Players/Important Players/Regular Starters - I was left with this shortlist. Here are the results:

I genuinely think that Geilton would be right at home in Serie A. He's lacking a little composure and concentration, but those are two attributes that I believe will be developed over time, remembering that he's only played two seasons of professional football, and didn't feature that much in his first season. 

I look forward to him being a solid player for us for the next few years, at least.

 

[_Ben_]

Carioca State

Our only derby (the do Sul Fluminense Derby) has got off to a good start!

[_Ben_]

Debut

Young Joao Fernando got three minutes to mark another academy player making their debut for the club under my management. The list currently stands at:

• Maicon
• Gilson Camilo
• Eldis Fernando
• Cris
• Maximo Xavier
• Kayky Costa
• Geilton
• Rodrigo Dinamite
• Adam Santiago
• Jefferson Quintanilha
• Joao Carlos
• Pacheco
• Marcio Ricardo
• Lorran Pereira Santos
• Filipe Marinho
• Joao Fernando

The names crossed out denote that they are no longer at the club. I expect that the list will have less players on it as we develop ourselves into a Serie A club over the next few years, hopefully, but we do have the State Championships which are a great chance to blood players against weak opposition, as seen above!

[_Ben_]

Wow

I know it's only the State Championships but we have completely dismantled a strong Fluminense side!

[karanhsingh]

On 11/06/2020 at 20:27, _Ben_ said:

Training unit

I also forgot that I can put reserve and Under 20 players in here, so Joao Fernando will train with the seniors until he is eligible to play, and move to the squad, next year.

How do you do this? 

[_Ben_]

1 hour ago, karanhsingh said:

How do you do this? 

In the Units section in Training.

[_Ben_]

Player Sale?

I don't think that I can turn this down, can I?

[karanhsingh]

14 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

In the Units section in Training.

Oh right! But they don't show up in the mentoring options right? 

[karanhsingh]

13 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

Player Sale?

I don't think that I can turn this down, can I?

That's a lot of money! He's got a great name though 

[_Ben_]

2027 Taca Guanabara (Carioca first turn)

Absolutely scintillating stuff! We are clicking and things are moving forward amazingly well. We started with sixteen goals in two games - making the most of every attacking opportunity, playing a free-flowing counter attacking style but also making the most of set pieces and also getting the ball into the box and winning the headers, with 6'6" winger Willian perfecting the art of bullying an opponent at the back post.

We recorded two victories over Serie A sides - the Botafogo performance was more of a grind but we are really good. Scarily good at times.

We face Group B winners Fluminense in the final of this first phase, looking to seal my first 'trophy' in this competition. If we do win, we will play the winner of the Taca Rio (the second turn) to see who wins the overall competition. I never thought that, as a Serie B side, we'd be reaching this level.

I will cover the final in a separate post.

---

Rodrigo Dinamite is fantastic but I had to do this. Not only have we boosted our finances now, we will also get £2.5m in during the next two February's and should be able to use this transfer fee to produce four or five more players of his level. The plan was always to put the growth of the club and the development of more first team players at the top of the priorities and, however much I have got attached to him and however proud I am of his development, the sale had to happen. The only small regret is that I didn't get chance to put in a percentage of his next sale or try to sneak in a loan-back clause.

For comparison - here are the largest ever transfers out of Serie B:

I think it's fairly realistic that I have no chance of keeping him then!

[keeper#1]

4 minutes ago, karanhsingh said:

Oh right! But they don't show up in the mentoring options right? 

They do not which is unfortunate.

[_Ben_]

Taca Guanabara Final

What an occasion this was. We managed to take four thousand fans to the Maracana and lined up with the strongest squad that we could and started really well, with Willian netting after, once again, bullying the right back.

Sadly, we conceded a really soft goal:

It was very much against the run of play and the only shot on target than Fluminense had managed all half. 

The second half continued very much in the same manner, we let them have possession but always looked secure, and, annoyingly, gave up a chance to win the game in the 76th minute when normally dependable Jaja saw his effort well saved.

In the end, we couldn't hold on to our nerve and win on penalties but I'm really proud of our two performances against Fluminense in this opening turn.

[_Ben_]

Player Development: Pacheco

I've been impressed with how this lad has developed and he's been rewarded with some first team football in the state championship this year. More importantly, he's moved from Fairly Determined to Resolute, joining an ever growing group of good personalities within the squad.

His attribute development is also very strong:

I think this is still all about maximising the things that he's good at - rather than trying to make him work hard (and for the team), I think I'd rather make him the best passer I can. I'd like a little increase in his finishing ability, if I can, too.

[Toffle]

Il y a 15 heures, _Ben_ a dit :

The plan was always to put the growth of the club and the development of more first team players at the top of the priorities and, however much I have got attached to him and however proud I am of his development, the sale had to happen.

We'll miss Rodrigo but it's a fantastic sale at this stage! Well done!

[_Ben_]

1 hour ago, Toffle said:

We'll miss Rodrigo but it's a fantastic sale at this stage! Well done!

Tell me about it!

I wasn't looking to sell him but I know that Chinese teams have cash to burn so, as soon as I saw that they were interested, felt that the worst was going to happen. However - there was no derisory bids or countering, just a straight offer of that.

My depth in the DM area is ok though: