Real Life-Tactics success in FM - When?

[Guest El Payaso]

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

Toonrock wasn't talking about AI teams and neither was I.

But I am. For me it's always looking at a bigger picture. As at least for me a somewhat realistic simulation of the real football world is quite important thing in terms of how joyable the save games/the game in general is. 

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, El Payaso said:

But I am. For me it's always looking at a bigger picture. As at least for me a somewhat realistic simulation of the real football world is quite important thing in terms of how joyable the save games/the game in general is. 

Obviously. No one contested this. My post said : It obviously does need looking at. You know this too, El Payaso.

[Guest El Payaso]

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Obviously. No one contested this. My post said : It obviously does need looking at

I bet that they have noticed it within the testers but the question is: do SI see it important? Or is this something that is possible to get more balanced within the ME as for me this once again is a long term issue...

Meanwhile people like @Toonrock are more than welcome to post examples of 3 striker formations in this thread. I think I have covered the 4-4-2 quite well already. 

[Toonrock]

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

@ToonrockI'm in a league where there are 3 strikers fairly often. I'm able to hold my own against them, so it's not like it's impossible to do. It obviously does need looking at, but it's not game over as soon as you face them.

Is there a specific formation you use (that isn´t ´broken´) to cope with those 3 strikers? 

[HUNT3R]

11 hours ago, Toonrock said:

Is there a specific formation you use (that isn´t ´broken´) to cope with those 3 strikers? 

No, because it's more important how I set up in them. I keep 4 back to deal with the 3.

[Rashidi]

3 striker formations are fairly easy to defend against, at least that’s my experience.

[TheresOnlyTwoFilipSebos]

In my Rangers save I had never come up against a 3 striker formation until I faced A.C. Milan in the CL group stages. They came to Ibrox with a flat 3-4-3. Unbeaten and with excellent morale, I assumed I could play the way I normally would (having held, and beat, both Bayern and Real using the same formation and set up) I was absolutely ripped apart. 3-0 down in half an hour, and I couldn't see how to cope with their counter attacks.

It took me til half time (after failed tactical alterations in the first half) to decide to play them at their own game. We eventually won that half 1-0. Still, that first half was the most frustrating half I've ever played.

I've never resorted to using that formation again, due to preferring to play with my own style. But that 3 striker set up definitely causes a LOT of problems in my experience. 

[Atarin]

I've never used 3 up front in FM18 and I'm doing just fine. In fact I rarely deviate from 4-4-2. It was the same with FM17. I know what I like. I keep it simple. I identify problems as games go by and a tiny tweak here and there general fixes most problems. No one is forcing you to play any way that you don't want to play. Downloadable super tactics tend to have these "vogue" formations like 3 at the back (yuk!) or 3 up front (blurgh!) or no strikers at all (huh?). That's fine if you want to fly through a save and over-achieve but it won't satisfy you.

I've said it a million times but I'll say it again. People over complicate this game so much. Understand all of the components (i.e - key player attributes, Formation, Mentality, Shape, Roles, Duties, TIs, PIs, PPMs, OIs) and then keep it simple. Know what your players can and will be prepared to do. Then choose an objective (countering or camping for example), choose a formation to facilitate that (bottom heavy, top heavy, wide, narrow.etc) and then select a Mentality that fits (i.e - the one that has the most logical width, defensive line, closing down, passing directness.etc) and then choose a Shape that achieves stretchedness or compactness that you're looking for. You shouldn't even need PIs or TIs if you've chosen correctly but if you feel you want them to break ever so slightly with the template selected (i.e - Mentality) then make a few (and I do mean only a few) minor adjustments. The same with PIs. If you've chosen the right Roles and Duties then they should be operating optimally anyway but if there is a slight tweak you want to make, then make a slight (slight!) tweak.

If I'm tempted to add an OI, or a PI or a TI I always ask myself would it be better if I just changed Mentality, Shape, Role or Duty. It won't always be the case but usually it is.

My 4-4-2 is absolutely basic. Standard Mentality, Flexible Shape. No funky Roles. Balance of Duties. 3 TIs. No PIs. Never use OIs. And I'm storming the league.

The key is having the right players, with the right attributes, with the right Roles and the right Duties.

[MBarbaric]

15 minuti fa, Atarin ha scritto:

Downloadable super tactics tend to have these "vogue" formations like 3 at the back (yuk!) or 3 up front (blurgh!) or no strikers at all (huh?). That's fine if you want to fly through a save and over-achieve but it won't satisfy you.

but it isn't downloadable tactics Atarin. Tactics with 3 at the back or up front are viable tactics a lot of teams use in real. In Italy it is very common. The issue is, the ME has problems dealing with them. The problem is twofold.

A) three strikers only vaguely contribute to the defensive phase and are able to exploit space on the counter or whatever

B) Paradoxically, these teams still manage to defend relatively effective nevertheless making the above even more effective

Nobody is saying you can't play as you want (to a degree and within limitations) and have success, but the issue is that ME lacks the ability to deal with some standard situations in football. It isn't about your, mine or whoever particular game. It is about the bigger picture and the believable gameworld.

[Toonrock]

12 hours ago, Rashidi said:

3 striker formations are fairly easy to defend against, at least that’s my experience.

Then upload the tactic you use, and let me test it  ...Seems more and more people keep talking about how fairly ´easy´ it is against 3 strikers - ...But seems more and more ´talk the talk, without doing the walk` 

[Toonrock]

16 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

No, because it's more important how I set up in them. I keep 4 back to deal with the 3.

How do you set up then, that magically solves the problem 

[themadsheep2001]

16 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

No, because it's more important how I set up in them. I keep 4 back to deal with the 3.

Interesting. I went for the cut midfield supply off route. Or if they were playing aggressive at home, hit the ball quick and direct to my pacy forwards

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, Toonrock said:

How do you set up then, that magically solves the problem 

There's nothing magical about it. You just pay attention to how the attacks are created and choose an point to disrupt it

[Rashidi]

9 hours ago, Toonrock said:

Then upload the tactic you use, and let me test it  ...Seems more and more people keep talking about how fairly ´easy´ it is against 3 strikers - ...But seems more and more ´talk the talk, without doing the walk` 

You think its purely a tactic, have you seen any of my shows and how I adapt? You can't walk the walk. 

In any game I play I have boys set up to lock down a flank. If I face a 3 man attack, I make sure that at least one side of the pitch is locked down and then I shut down their supply run. That effectively means that I spend some time looking at where they are building up play form? Can you play like this or are you looking for a tactic that you can just blindly stick up? 

Yes my tactics are available for download, you just need to spend a modicum of time trying to find out how to get them. And I am not about to spoon-feed people who just want others to solve their problems for them. There is nothing magical in the way I play, If its tactical help you want then post your issues in the tactical forum, if you think its a bug, post it as a bug. As long as there are people here you are not facing the same issues, their pkms unfortunately for you are always going to show that it can be done.

[Toonrock]

On ‎21‎-‎01‎-‎2018 at 08:41, Rashidi said:

You think its purely a tactic, have you seen any of my shows and how I adapt?

Didn´t know you had videos on YouTube, will try to look them through and see if it could be helpful 

On ‎21‎-‎01‎-‎2018 at 08:41, Rashidi said:

Others to solve their problems for them

No worries, like to make my own tactics, but getting them to work accordingly in a way that I want, is another matter  Can be somewhat difficult sometimes.

Funny to see that you have Ajax-videos in there (from what I could see by first glimps) - I decided last week to make a tactic build on how the old Ajax class of 1995 (and the way they played in the CL-final against Milan) in a 3-4-3 (Where the wingers naturally helps out the team);  Have played some test games, and it works rather good. Always thought it was a admireable way to play (offensive) football 

[Atarin]

On 1/20/2018 at 21:58, themadsheep2001 said:

Interesting. I went for the cut midfield supply off route. Or if they were playing aggressive at home, hit the ball quick and direct to my pacy forwards

I do the same. Its very effective.

[Ji-Sung Park]

On 17.1.2018 at 16:51, themadsheep2001 said:

I'll post it tomorrow. Drop me a message to remind me. It's not a flat 4-1-4-1. Its the lopsided United shape 

Reminder 

I'm trying out some asymmetrical tactics and would love to see this one.

[Toonrock]

On 21/1/2018 at 08:41, Rashidi said:

There is nothing magical in the way I play,

So been watching some of the Ajax season-videos @Rashidi; In several matches, good results obviously comes from you having used the earlier mentioned 3-strikers Fisherman´s friend.

I can see how you can go unbeaten all season (in all matches, totally unrealistic), and ending up winning CL with Ajax