Failure prevention thread- Sampdoria

[Bunkerossian]

I'm creating a thread which will give readers details in abundance, so as to be able to help me avoid any tactical misconceptions I might have. My chosen team is Sampdoria. Projected to finish 11th, on the 17.3.0 transfer database. Here, I followed Rashidi's advice to pick mid-table teams with expectations that are neither too high, nor containing a certain fight for relegation. The roster looks to have some quality, but is also pretty constricting, with regards to the kinds of football it can pull off.

Roster

Goalkeepers: One very good, and a good backup-both are Goalkeepers-Defend. The third one is nothing special. Distribution-wise, the main GK is great at both Kicking and Throwing. Not Passing though.

Wide Defenders (R). Neither of the two is truly pacey, and the one that is at first glance better (Sala), has poor Tackling, and is slower than Bereszynski. Good Work Rate and some Technical attributes, though.

Wide Defenders (L): Dodo is the best at going forward, but has problems with Tackling and defensive play. Pavlović can cross and tackle, but is slow. Regini defends well, because he is also a CB, but lacks when going forward.

Centre Backs: Škriniar is best and the most intelligent defender. Silvestre is experienced and fairly good, while Šimić needs tutored, but has potential, especially in the air. My Team Report warns of poor Jumping ability in the squad, so Šimić will see playing time. I will spend money to get at least one more CB.

Destructive midfielders: Angelo Palombo is a club legend, and one of the reasons I took this club. I love a solid destroyer, and he is that. Age has killed his physical attributes, but the mentals are insane. I expect to build my defensive plans around him, and a very capable workhorse in Barreto. Sadly, Barreto has many PPM-s which do not fit his stats.

Roamers: Linetty has potential, certainly. Torreira can be used as a RPM, Regista or a more static role, but he can do defensive tasks well, in any case.

Other creative midfielders: the club is loaded with them. Cigarini is best for a deeper role. More forward, Alvarez, Praet, Djuričić and Fernandes are all solid players.

Wide midfielders or forward wing players: A big hole! Sala and Dodo are actually MR and ML respectively, when looking at natural positions. No other natural options exist. Muriel's the only other player I could see being used as a winger (AMR).

Strikers: One solid target man in Budimir, Quagliarella for some creativity, an Advanced Forward (Schick) with room to grow, and the tricky, pacy Muriel who could be a False Nine, maybe? Well stocked here.

The team has several individuals with strong character( LDR and DET). Midfielders are generally very good passers of the ball, and the team has the highest Flair in the league! Heading is catastrophic among the defenders, and good in the strikers. The report says that Aggression is lacking in the team. However, a few players do have that covered. I will seek a CB with good Heading and Marking ASAP.

Formation options

When I looked at the team, and saw all those AMC-s, I thought of a 4-2-3-1 Narrow immediately, as one of the options. The question is, how to distribute roles to the AMC-s, and the striker? Another question is- how to mitigate the lack of width in the team? Can any AMC role help here?

Another possibility is the 4-3-2-1 Narrow. Here, I don't know how to best distribute the side MC roles. If my wide defenders must go forward, would playing static defensive roles make the most sense, or could more tenacious ball winners do the trick too? Keep in mind that Palombo hasn't got the stamina to run all day. I was thinking playing him centrally. It is a top-heavy formation, so would a striker who leads the line be better than one that drops deep?

Lastly, all those strikers mean I have the numbers required to try a 4-3-3 Narrow. The question of the central midfielders is the same as above. The striker placement is sort of defined by the extreme one-footedness of Budimir. If I use him, he will need to be a Target Man or a Defensive Forward on the left. My initial thoughts are to play the more skilled Quagliarella or Muriel on the right in some role that drops deeper, while Schick gets to be the Advanced Forward in the center.

Does anyone see anything wrong with my assessment of the squad, or formation ideas? Anything you wish to suggest? This thread basically serves as a checking tool for my thought process. My attempts to create a good tactic have failed before, and I am trying to root out the cause.

[TheJanitor]

I've I acutally played a bit with Sampdoria, they a fun squad with a lot of potential.

I think a Diamond formation or 4-3-1-2 might fit them the most. There are many options in midfield, but I'd go with Torreira (one of my favorite players this year) at the base, Barreto/Linetty and Fernandes in the middle and Alvarez ahead of them. Quagliarella and Schick can form a nice Creator/Goal-scorer combo, and Budimir and Muriel could form a nice Big/Small combo, though I'd try the former because Schick has great potential and I prefer Quagliarella to Muriel or Budimir. Sala and Dodo are avarege at best, but both seem to be more capable in an attacking role.

[Bunkerossian]

14 minutes ago, TheJanitor said:

I've I acutally played a bit with Sampdoria, they a fun squad with a lot of potential.

I think a Diamond formation or 4-3-1-2 might fit them the most. There are many options in midfield, but I'd go with Torreira (one of my favorite players this year) at the base, Barreto/Linetty and Fernandes in the middle and Alvarez ahead of them. Quagliarella and Schick can form a nice Creator/Goal-scorer combo, and Budimir and Muriel could form a nice Big/Small combo, though I'd try the former because Schick has great potential and I prefer Quagliarella to Muriel or Budimir. Sala and Dodo are avarege at best, but both seem to be more capable in an attacking role.

When I had tried a Chievo save, I'd seen Sampdoria play this formation, although I believe some of the players were different. It makes sense as a formation, but I must ask- why Fernandes in the middle 3? Is there a tactical reason?

[TheJanitor]

20 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

When I had tried a Chievo save, I'd seen Sampdoria play this formation, although I believe some of the players were different. It makes sense as a formation, but I must ask- why Fernandes in the middle 3? Is there a tactical reason?

No reason in particular, I just like having a creative player in the middle of the diamond, someone who could drive at the opposition, support the attackers etc. He is one of your better players and so does Alvarez and you want to play your best players.

[Bunkerossian]

Just now, TheJanitor said:

No reason in particular, I just like having a creative player in the middle of the diamond, someone who could drive at the opposition, support the attackers etc. He is one of your better players and so does Alvarez and you want to play your best players.

How did you do regarding goals conceded, with this tactic?

[TheJanitor]

36 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

How did you do regarding goals conceded, with this tactic?

Can't recall the specifics, but it wasn't aweful, that's for sure. I did fairly well in general.

[Bunkerossian]

5 hours ago, TheJanitor said:

Can't recall the specifics, but it wasn't aweful, that's for sure. I did fairly well in general.

I suppose you don't have a leftover save? To me, it seems risky to play so many truly offensive players in a diamond, and yet you pulled it off.

[TheJanitor]

5 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

I suppose you don't have a leftover save? To me, it seems risky to play so many truly offensive players in a diamond, and yet you pulled it off.

Affraid not, but why would it be risky? Fernandes is no Mascherano but he doesn't have be in order to cover his flank, and if he is covered by Linetty and Torreira then he should be fine.

[Bunkerossian]

Just now, TheJanitor said:

Affraid not, but why would it be risky? Fernandes is no Mascherano but he doesn't have be in order to cover his flank, and if he is covered by Linetty and Torreira then he should be fine.

So 12 Tackling is enough for the CM-s in a diamond? I thought those positions are reserved for tough players who need to be defensively proficient.

[TheJanitor]

Not necessarily. When you look at some of the real life examples of teams that played the diamond formation, Milan had Seedorf, Liverpool had Coutinho and Real have Modric. These are all hard-working players, but not "though players who need to be defensively proficient" per se, like their counter-parts Ambrosini, Henderson and Casemiro.

It's all about balance- if Fernandes is covered the right way, no reason for you to be defensively leaking.

[Bunkerossian]

4 minutes ago, TheJanitor said:

Not necessarily. When you look at some of the real life examples of teams that played the diamond formation, Milan had Seedorf, Liverpool had Coutinho and Real have Modric. These are all hard-working players, but not "though players who need to be defensively proficient" per se, like their counter-parts Ambrosini, Henderson and Casemiro.

It's all about balance- if Fernandes is covered the right way, no reason for you to be defensively leaking.

Sala isn't great on the defense, and neither is Dodo. What I have no idea is, should any Team Instructions be used to make this work. What roles did you assign the midfielders?

[TheJanitor]

4 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

Sala isn't great on the defense, and neither is Dodo. What I have no idea is, should any Team Instructions be used to make this work. What roles did you assign the midfielders?

SS/a

AP/a - MC/s

DLP/d

[Bunkerossian]

2 minutes ago, TheJanitor said:

SS/a

AP/a - MC/s

DLP/d

Thanks. I assume the wide defenders are on FB-S or A?

[TheJanitor]

Both WB/s.

[Bunkerossian]

2 minutes ago, TheJanitor said:

Both WB/s.

Okay. I'll try this, then. You did not play Palombo or Cigarini?

[TheJanitor]

Nope. Not much atleast.

[jc577]

1 hour ago, TheJanitor said:

SS/a

AP/a - MC/s

DLP/d

 

1 hour ago, TheJanitor said:

Both WB/s.

What was your reasoning behind using two wing backs on support? Did they stretch the pitch enough to allow you to attack centrally, or where they the main focus of your attacks?

[Bunkerossian]

What is typically required of ˝wide˝ central midfielders such as those deployed in any formation with 3 CM-s, or even the 2 CM-s in a diamond? Is it a rule that they must have good Stamina, Aggression...? In my initial post I've stated that I'm unsure on how to set up the midfield trios in 2 of my suggested formations.

 

[jc577]

Just now, Bunkerossian said:

What is typically required of ˝wide˝ central midfielders such as those deployed in any formation with 3 CM-s, or even the 2 CM-s in a diamond? Is it a rule that they must have good Stamina, Aggression...?

 

In my experience playing with a diamond i've found that having CM's with good acceleration to be key, so that they can break off and cover the flanks quickly.

[Bunkerossian]

Upon creating my formations, I realized I have a big problem: I'll be slaughtered on set pieces. Should I leave absolutely nobody to stay forward, or are there better ways to overcome the issue?

[TheJanitor]

1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

Upon creating my formations, I realized I have a big problem: I'll be slaughtered on set pieces. Should I leave absolutely nobody to stay forward, or are there better ways to overcome the issue?

Why? Use whatever setup you use at previous tactics. I always have a lad forward and someone outside the box.

[Bunkerossian]

1 minute ago, TheJanitor said:

Why? Use whatever setup you use at previous tactics. I always have a lad forward and someone outside the box.

Bad Strength, and Jumping Reach in the team overall. I'm dreading it. It'll be hard to not include Budimir in the team.

[TheJanitor]

Your call, but I'm not sure you will be exposed that much. I've used this setup with sides like Liverpool, Dortmund etc who aren't quite reknowned for having a lot of strong headers in their squad. Never have set pieces been such an issue for me.

[Bunkerossian]

A question for the knowledgeable: what could cause the wide defenders to hesitate to put a cross in, quickly? It happens with most of my tactics, but not always. And it's generally the right-sided defender that hesitates more. I am not using any PI-s or TI-s, and I'm certain the players in question have no PPM-s that would affect this.

[BadAss88]

I've just started a Sampdoria-save as well, and I'm going for a 3-4-2-1 formation with wingbacks instead of wide midfielders  

EDIT: or 3-4-1-2

[Bunkerossian]

I had asked an input on this tactic in the first post, but got none, so I cobbled up roles, but it's not working well. My main concern is that there is a nasty tendency of the full backs to hesitate with crossing, until the opposition wide players come close enough to block the attempt. Being put under pressure is sort of expected, as I don't aim to contest the midfield here, but I'd really like a consistent focus from the team to get the ball forward, fast.

[jc577]

1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

I had asked an input on this tactic in the first post, but got none, so I cobbled up roles, but it's not working well. My main concern is that there is a nasty tendency of the full backs to hesitate with crossing, until the opposition wide players come close enough to block the attempt. Being put under pressure is sort of expected, as I don't aim to contest the midfield here, but I'd really like a consistent focus from the team to get the ball forward, fast.

Wouldn't it make more sense to play the target man in the middle so he has runners either side for his knockdowns? The WB-s may be too far away, and the AP-S is fairly static. I could be wrong, just my two cents.

[Bunkerossian]

3 minutes ago, jc577 said:

Wouldn't it make more sense to play the target man in the middle so he has runners either side for his knockdowns? The WB-s may be too far away, and the AP-S is fairly static. I could be wrong, just my two cents.

The reasoning for this set-up of strikers is the extreme one-footedness (left) of Budimir, my target man. I had also thought that by being the outer forward, he might be able to get into duels with the opposing full backs, at times, not just centre backs. I used the static role on purpose, thinking it would leave the flank less exposed. It ended up being a bad idea. I actually had issues being countered when I later switched to Attacking mentality.

[jc577]

1 minute ago, Bunkerossian said:

The reasoning for this set-up of strikers is the extreme one-footedness (left) of Budimir, my target man. I had also thought that by being the outer forward, he might be able to get into duels with the opposing full backs, at times, not just centre backs.

Very good point, I hadn't thought about that. Personally I like to play strikers on the opposite side to their stronger foot, so that they can move into the channels and cut inside back onto their stronger foot a la Thierry Henry.

[Bunkerossian]

Just now, jc577 said:

Very good point, I hadn't thought about that. Personally I like to play strikers on the opposite side to their stronger foot, so that they can move into the channels and cut inside back onto their stronger foot a la Thierry Henry.

I hate cutting inside, because it is easy to defend against. I suck at most things in FM, but the one thing I can cope with is people trying to cut in- I generally never had success with inside forwards myself, probably for the same reason. The team play improved slightly when I made the central forward a CF-A. But even after the TM scored a goal from his pass, there was never the kind of frantic pressure on the opposition's penalty box I'd expect from a 3 striker tactic.

[jc577]

1 minute ago, Bunkerossian said:

I hate cutting inside, because it is easy to defend against. I suck at most things in FM, but the one thing I can cope with is people trying to cut in- I generally never had success with inside forwards myself, probably for the same reason. The team play improved slightly when I made the central forward a CF-A. But even after the TM scored a goal from his pass, there was never the kind of frantic pressure on the opposition's penalty box I'd expect from a 3 striker tactic.

It's only easy to defend against if the player attempting to do so doesn't have the right attributes; acceleration, balance, agility, dribbling, first touch, composure etc in my opinion.. but out of curiosity why have you found it easy to deal with players coming inside? I've never  played with three strikers but what I'd say is that it's important to look at the tactic as a whole and not just focus on the three strikers. 

[Bunkerossian]

19 minutes ago, jc577 said:

It's only easy to defend against if the player attempting to do so doesn't have the right attributes; acceleration, balance, agility, dribbling, first touch, composure etc in my opinion.. but out of curiosity why have you found it easy to deal with players coming inside? I've never  played with three strikers but what I'd say is that it's important to look at the tactic as a whole and not just focus on the three strikers. 

The ˝Show onto foot˝ Opp. In. ruins their day if they have a weaker foot. I use this OI so much. Since teams that play inside forwards generally are top-level teams, playing on a low mentality also helps. Wingers who can cross are a hundred times more dangerous to me, especially on the counter. I guess strong CB-s mitigate the cross issue, but Sampdoria doesn't have that. Looking at the tactic as a whole tells me little. I assigned the roles as I thought best, considering no previous input was given on this tactic- I had asked in the opening post for people to explain the requirements of the 3 CM-s, for the tactic to work.

I got a suggestion to use a completely new tactic by @TheJanitor . I tried it. First time it went well, the second time not so much. The opposition played a 4-3-1-2. If I stayed standard, their passing game would create chances. If I went counter, they would get up the flanks. A player I had thought of defensive, had managed to direct threatening crosses. My attempts to remedy the situation had failed.

Conclusion: I need an FM babysitter.

@HUNT3R, @Cleon, @herne79, @Rashidi...If anyone would want to entangle themselves into this, and draw my conclusions instead of me- it would be appreciated.