Does the Al Cheat???

[Wayne\'o]

WOW, never realised so many points would be raised on this topic, gotta shoot off to work so havnt got time to read all of them. so to sumorise are we saying there may be slight flaws in the match engine that some times creates wierd situations and results ect?

[wwfan]

Slight and not so slight, but that's pretty much my take on things. Others will disagree and often do.

[glamdring]

I agree with you that it is worse and is annoying. I think the idea has been good but the implementation of it hasn't been. I understand what you are saying about the AI tactical changes but I suppose it may make the flow of the game quicker as imagine if the AI made several changes to their tactics and there was a delay (like when we make changes) everytime they do, I would find it very annoying.

It always looks very suspicious how fast the AI gets its changes made compared to the human user and the new tactics in running makes this infinitely worse, but this mostly just comes down to the fact that the AI manager can react instantly to something on the pitch whereas the human manager has to take brain time and the time it takes to move and click the mouse before he/she can make changes. That means that when you score a goal the AI manager can react instantly and have its changes made before the kickoff whereas a human manager can't generally react that fast unless you pause the game when you know a goal is about to be scored against you and make head to tactics and make your changes then so they can take place in the break in play before the kickoff.

[chopper99]

I don't quite agree with this on a subjective level.

If you are really used to reading the 2d, very few of these chances look like good ones. The problem is that these types of tactics so rarely fail to generate an actual good chance, that the half-chances they do generate are perceived as good ones. As a reply to the mother of all cheating AI threads, I posted 14 examples of good chances. As a rule, the type of tactic that generates the 'cheat stats' hardly ever creates chances like these.

PS: For anybody interested in really getting to grips with the whole 'cheating AI' thing, the linked thread is a must read

I totally agree with you about that. My point was that to many people it looks as though they are creating a lot of decent chances (even if experience shows you that these are not good chances at all) yet still losing. For some people the measure of how good their tactic is depends on how much they dominate the opposition and how many chances they create. Taking this to the next level and managing to really distinguish between good chances and poor chances is not something many people do. Is this something people should have to do? It is a game after all.

So if people are looking at the highlights (probably on Key as I imagine that's how the majority of people watch the game) all they see is domination and plenty of chances, but no victories. So all they see is a tactic that looks good and an AI opponent still somehow beating them. Hence the totally unfounded 'AI cheats' claims. People don't grasp that it is down to their tactics because there's nothing in the game to tell them that it's their tactics. If you really look and learn to read the game there is, but for many people there are just figures for possession and shot, as well as highlights, that show them dominating games.

So the problem is that the game should not allow these 'cheat' tactics to confuse it and result in strange match stats and highlights while at the same time leaving the user confused as to why they are losing games that on the face of it they should be winning.

So, in conclusion, the game catagorically does not cheat you. You can win any game you go into if you use the right tactics, team talks, training, moral management and all the other things that go into being a good manager. But, the game also does not make it very clear where people are going wrong, and that is where the frustration of many posters comes from I think. I'm confident these issues will be addressed in '09, particularly with the change in the role of arrows in the tactics.

[sven78]

I openly admit that I have wrote many a negative post on here about the game but I am beginning to understand the game a whole lot more.

I have felt the frustration of many of the people who write on here with predominantly the same complaint about this game however having had a break from the game I begun playing again at the start of September. After a couple of seasons I found myself in the same situation that I had found myself in numerous times before. This prompted me to set up a new thread on here entitled "FM2009 - Is it worth it" and rather than just slating the game I intended to put forward my points constructively, albeit they were predominantly negative, so that people would respond to it rather than just disregard it. Some of the replies I got were tremendous (Marc Vaughan even contributed) and honestly hand on heart from then on my apporach to the game has changed dramatically.

I don't profess to now know the game inside out in the space of two weeks but what I am learning to do is interpret the information which is available to the user and use it to my advantage. I would pick a formation play it week in week out without tweaks and complain that I wasn't winning every game. I now know this can't be done and have learned through trial and error minor tweaks which need to be carried out to achieve successful results.

The game I have put this to the test on is in Serie A with Parma. Just finished 7th in the first season having only signed two players. Just staying in the league was priority for the club however I was 2 points away from finishing 6th and a place in Europe, I actually lost my last 4 games in a row, having only lost 6 all season. This has puzzled me somewhat but I have put it down to squad size and fatigue. Lucarelli finished top scorer in the league with 38 goals in 36 games some 14 ahead of anyone else.

I am throughly enjoying this game for the first time in ages. I am learning to interpret and appreciate the importance of Teamtalks and checking on the feedback screen to see if they were correct or not. I watch for subtle differences the AI employs in formation. I watch if they add or remove arrows and generally now feel more involved in the game.

So to answer the OP's comment does the AI Cheat? I will say catergorically No. Do odd things happen in the game that you don't expect........absolutely.

The difference I have found is if you do nothing about what is happening in front of you.

[HUNT3R]

Good post, Sven. I agree. You have to at least understand what is happening on the pitch and respond to it. If you don't use tactics to exploit the flaws in the ME, then results will be realistic. It might not always go your way, but that's football.

[Wayne\'o]

I openly admit that I have wrote many a negative post on here about the game but I am beginning to understand the game a whole lot more.

I have felt the frustration of many of the people who write on here with predominantly the same complaint about this game however having had a break from the game I begun playing again at the start of September. After a couple of seasons I found myself in the same situation that I had found myself in numerous times before. This prompted me to set up a new thread on here entitled "FM2009 - Is it worth it" and rather than just slating the game I intended to put forward my points constructively, albeit they were predominantly negative, so that people would respond to it rather than just disregard it. Some of the replies I got were tremendous (Marc Vaughan even contributed) and honestly hand on heart from then on my apporach to the game has changed dramatically.

I don't profess to now know the game inside out in the space of two weeks but what I am learning to do is interpret the information which is available to the user and use it to my advantage. I would pick a formation play it week in week out without tweaks and complain that I wasn't winning every game. I now know this can't be done and have learned through trial and error minor tweaks which need to be carried out to achieve successful results.

The game I have put this to the test on is in Serie A with Parma. Just finished 7th in the first season having only signed two players. Just staying in the league was priority for the club however I was 2 points away from finishing 6th and a place in Europe, I actually lost my last 4 games in a row, having only lost 6 all season. This has puzzled me somewhat but I have put it down to squad size and fatigue. Lucarelli finished top scorer in the league with 38 goals in 36 games some 14 ahead of anyone else.

I am throughly enjoying this game for the first time in ages. I am learning to interpret and appreciate the importance of Teamtalks and checking on the feedback screen to see if they were correct or not. I watch for subtle differences the AI employs in formation. I watch if they add or remove arrows and generally now feel more involved in the game.

So to answer the OP's comment does the AI Cheat? I will say catergorically No. Do odd things happen in the game that you don't expect........absolutely.

The difference I have found is if you do nothing about what is happening in front of you.

any chance you could post the link to your topic so i could have a read mate?

[Wayne\'o]

Good post, Sven. I agree. You have to at least understand what is happening on the pitch and respond to it. If you don't use tactics to exploit the flaws in the ME, then results will be realistic. It might not always go your way, but that's football.

Just like to add. should there be flaws to exploit? i mean if thats the only way to be a great team? wouldnt it be much better if some how a combination of good training and tactics, motivtaion, even how well your players like each other be much more important for match results than having to find a flaw?

[HUNT3R]

Just like to add. should there be flaws to exploit? i mean if thats the only way to be a great team? wouldnt it be much better if some how a combination of good training and tactics' date=' motivtaion, even how well your players like each other be much more important for match results than having to find a flaw?[/quote']

That's exactly my point. Trying to exploit ME flaws creates weird, unrealistic results because the game can't cope. People who try this often feel cheated when weird goals are scored against them.

If we don't try to exploit the ME flaws (such as using normal football formations), results will be realistic and that's what we all want.

[presumingpete]

the way i see it the people who lose a match then reload the game until they get the result they want wouldnt do that unless the result has a chance of being different the next time.

that is all