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Greenland: need some help with the league setup


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Hi,

in my quest to manage in the most unlikely places, Greenland has sprung to mind... Unfortunately it requires to be done from scratch and my editing skills are quite below par, so I'll need your help...

1) I'll need to add Greenland as a standalone country, IIRC I can't actually add it, but an inactive one has to be overwritten. Is it better to replace a defunct one (pre-1922 Ireland seemed to be the favourite one to sacrifice) or I can recycle one of the French Overseas Territories that are still in the game despite not having much football activity in recent times?

2) Once it's been done, I'll probably have to assign it to CONCACAF to avoid major issues with UEFA coefficients etc... Still, how can I add the new nation to World Cup qualifiers etc?

3) The names will be a huge huge issue, as there's no existing record of Inuit/Kalaallisut language and or names in the db. So while the easiest choice would be to set everything as Danish, it would be inaccurate (and just morally wrong, I suppose). Any workaround to that?

4) The Premier division is quite complex, consisting of five regional groups that qualify 8 teams (I suppose the winners and the 3 best runner-ups). Those clubs are split into two groups. The top 2 of each go on to play a single-game semifinal and then the final.

The losing semifinalists play a 3rd place final, while 3rd placed teams of the two groups play a 5th place playoff, and the bottom sides play for the 7th place...

That's gonna be a pain in the neck to implement, isn't it?

Anyway... back to square one... Is it possible to overcome the nationality/name issue AND the participation to FIFA and continental confederation's competitions?

If not, the project will be aborted immediately...

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1. yes and i think 1922 ireland is best option-this was case on earlier versions but im not sure for fm15

2. if you add greenland to europe you need to re create all european club comps and all international comps-this is huge job for someone who doesnt know what to do(you can remove some nation from europe to fix this issue)

3. you can try to add names in database and see whats gonna be. i dont know how many names you need. you can try to find answer in some older threads about this(there is few im sure)

4. system is maybe complicated but can be done

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I know it's probably not what you were thinking of. But you could either create a new club based in Greenland playing in the Danish league system or use a real life Greenland club as a model in the Danish system.

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As a Dane I have to say: Interesting project and an idea I've toyed with before myself! :thup:

1) I would go for 1922 Ireland as well.

2) Definitely CONCACAF. Geographically it's the only thing that makes sense and IRL Greenland is a part of the North American zone in other sports like handball. I'm not sure about participation in continental club tournaments, but the national team should take part in any future WC qualifying tournaments, if not the ongoing one. At least that's what happens if you add another nation to Europe. - I've done so successfully with Pays Basque and Monaco. Not sure about the Gold Cup and how hardcoded that is.

3) I don't know that there is any easy way to implement Greenlandic names, other than adding them yourself manually. Have you checked if there are any Canadian Inuit names in the DB?

4) Cf. what daniellewis said, I once created a Canadian league for FM13 with a Greenlandic team in it (again, geographical sense). If you do that, you can do a Greenlandic version of the San Marino/Andorra/Liechtenstein challenge. ;)

The IRL system you mention is complicated but can be done - or at least something closely resembling it.

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You have convinced me to give it a shot...

Greenland has been successfully added to the real world, along with its 12 major cities, a handful of stadiums and some clubs already.

The name issue is still puzzling me though...

I've added Greenlandic language, but in the "language group" the closest approximation available was "Aleut", but none of the sub-regions apply... Does that only affect the learning process of the language in-game (ie. having no cognate languages, non-natives will never learn it as easily as, say, a German could learn another Germanic language)?

Also, I've set Greenland in North America, but with Scandinavia as its region, so the generated names are Nordic. Still way too many Swedish or Finnish names that make little sense, but isn't there a better option besides adding thousands of actual Greenlandic names and combos to the db?

The regional league system is likely to kill me though...

BTW, what's the deal with Latitude and Longitude in the editor??? They seem expressed in 1/100th instead of the °, ' and " format...

Would it work if I create specific local regions (North Greenland, East Greenland, South Greenland etc) and simply put a few city/towns in it without giving it Lat/Long borders? Will the game pick clubs based on the cities listed in the specific region or not?

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Great - looking forward to seeing your results! :D

As for the names, I think doing the Scandinavian thing is probably your best option without having to add all those names manually.

I think the language of a nation affects the names of newgens too - for instance, a lot of American youth will have Hispanic names because the United States has 80% English and 20% Spanish in the DB. So maybe giving Greenland a certain percentage of Danish speakers (not unrealistic) will increase the number of Danish names? Of course that doesn't solve the problem of there being no Greenlandic names in the DB, but it might decrease the number of names from other Scandinavian countries.

As for the Lat/Long, have a look at e.g. Google Maps. There you can find them in the same format as used in the DB, if you want to add them to your cities.

I have had a look at the Greenlandic league system (i.e. read the Wikipedia article). I don't know how close to RL you want to make it, but personally I think I would probably just make a league with 5 regional divisions and the winners going on to a final group stage. You can make something closer to RL, but you would have to use advanced rules which I have never done, so can't be of any help there...

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Hi,

in my quest to manage in the most unlikely places, Greenland has sprung to mind... Unfortunately it requires to be done from scratch and my editing skills are quite below par, so I'll need your help...

Have a look here. http://www.rsssf.com/tablesg/groenl2014.html#gm

This site will give you an overview of the clubs involved and the structure of Greenlandic football from last season.

There was a database doing the rounds for FM14. Whether it was set up correctly or not I don't know, but it may give you a helping hand.

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RSSSF, along with Youtube and Google Images have been vital to allow me to gather even the most basic infos about clubs.

There's a database for FM15 too, but it's just a mock league set in Canada (with plenty of Canadian leftovers in it). There was a better-researched addon for an old FM version (FM09?) but I can't find a working link to download it. Not to mention it'd be too old to be of much use.

Back to the league structure... There doesn't seem to be a clear relegation/promotion system... Clubs seem to appear and disapper at random, with inconsistencies in the numbers of teams taking part in the regional qualfiers...

I'm honestly tempted to go for a more simplistic way to deal with the league, while keeping the round-robin+playoff format...

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I'm pretty sure those ca. 20 clubs are all the football clubs in Greenland. Which is pretty good for a country that is 90% covered in snow all year round and has 45,000 inhabitants...

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I'm pretty sure those ca. 20 clubs are all the football clubs in Greenland. Which is pretty good for a country that is 90% covered in snow all year round and has 45,000 inhabitants...

I thought so, but I've found a webpage that lists almost ONE HUNDRED clubs, stating that the regional phase of the league is preceded by another preliminary round with local pools to decide who's advancing to the next phase...

I'm not happy...

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Upon further research (mainly the national newspaper, Danish edition, and the website of FC Malamuk) I'm thinking about scrapping the league idea and going for a Cup-like format...

Although the criteria for entering the Preliminary round are still unclear, and the regional boundaries confusing, I think the best approximation is some sort of Champions-league formula, with three preliminary stages leading to the knockout rounds.

I also considered running the Preliminary and Regional stages as standalone leagues BEFORE the actual Final Stages, but I don't know how to set the promotions up, nor if it's even possible to run sort of "interconnected" competitions within the same season... maybe as Cups it's easier? Leagues would be a hell with promotions etc?

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I think I'll need some help here...

I've created the preliminary round as a league with 5 regional sub-divisions, but now I don't know how to set the rest of the competitions up...

Basically, I'd need the top 2 sides in each sub-divisions to advance to the Final Round, consisting in 2 more round-robin groups and a playoff grid.

So I thought I could set 10 promotion places from "Preliminary Round" league, but how can I instruct the game to put those promoted clubs into the Final Round league in the same season?

Alternatively I've created the Final Round as a Cup, with a Group Stage x2, semis and final as selected rounds, but then again I can't seem to find the option to keep the regional sub-groups intact as first-round divisions.

All I can set up is "pick clubs from X division", but the "use regional division as cup round" option isn't available...

What can I do?

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What happens if you have the final stage take part in the same season but after the preliminary round - like the preliminary round in the spring and the final round in the fall?

You might benefit from looking around in the editing forum for people who dabbled with the US or Australian leagues, as they have a similar structure with regular season + playoffs.

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I'm stuck...

The Cup format doesn't work because it doesn't support groups with different number of teams and different slots for "promotion", so the closest I could get is setting all 5 regional divisions with the same amount of clubs and playoff berths... and even there I'm unsure about how well it'd work.

The League format simply doesn't accept (as far as I can tell) the format of the Greenlandic Championship.

If I set up the Regional Round as a sub-division of the main league, I get all sort of "wrong number of teams" messages because, once again, the 5 regional divisions feature varying number of teams and of promotion spots. Not to mention it insists that the number of teams advancing to the playoff AFTER the Final Round Groups have been played MUST be divisible by the number of the regional divisions... Which makes no sense, because 5 regional divisions bring 10 teams to the Final Round Groups and from there FOUR clubs (the top two of each group) play the semifinals and the final...

Apparently the editor fails to understand the playoffs come AFTER the league/group... Go figure...

If I set up the Regional Round as a lower league (tier 2) with the Final stage as a Top Tier league, it goes nuts because the promotions (10) from the Regional Round don't match the relegations (0) from the Main League.

Basically, I think the system can't be recreated with 100% accuracy because the editor just can't handle it... The Championship works like the two-staged Champions League used to do in the late 90s, just with a variable number of teams and "promotions".

No club is truly relegated though, just eliminated, which creates all sorts of problems in the editor.

To sum up how it works in real life (skipping the first preliminary round)

Stage 1) 5 Groups of 3-5 clubs from the same Region play once against eachother.

Stage 2) The 5 winners, some runner-ups and the HOSTS (as the final group stage and the playoffs are played in one town) are split into two Groups (4 or 5 clubs each, depending on the year)

Stage 3) The Top 2 teams of the groups play the semifinal and then the final. 3rd placed and 4th placed from the groups play 5th and 7th place final

So, even disregarding the whole "hosts advance to the Group Stage" bit and going for even groups in Stage 1, I'm still struggling to find the right way to approximate such a convoluted structure, at least respecting the Regional divisions

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you send me the file you are working with, I can attempt to create the structure of the league you are looking for using the advanced editor. It might take me some time because I don't have near as much time for playing around with the editor as I used to, but I should be able to get it to work.

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  • 3 years later...
On 29/07/2015 at 17:11, RBKalle said:

You have convinced me to give it a shot...

Greenland has been successfully added to the real world, along with its 12 major cities, a handful of stadiums and some clubs already.

The name issue is still puzzling me though...

I've added Greenlandic language, but in the "language group" the closest approximation available was "Aleut", but none of the sub-regions apply... Does that only affect the learning process of the language in-game (ie. having no cognate languages, non-natives will never learn it as easily as, say, a German could learn another Germanic language)?

Also, I've set Greenland in North America, but with Scandinavia as its region, so the generated names are Nordic. Still way too many Swedish or Finnish names that make little sense, but isn't there a better option besides adding thousands of actual Greenlandic names and combos to the db?

The regional league system is likely to kill me though...

BTW, what's the deal with Latitude and Longitude in the editor??? They seem expressed in 1/100th instead of the °, ' and " format...

Would it work if I create specific local regions (North Greenland, East Greenland, South Greenland etc) and simply put a few city/towns in it without giving it Lat/Long borders? Will the game pick clubs based on the cities listed in the specific region or not?

Hello!

 

I know it's been a while since this was posted, but I'm working on a similar project right now and I have a question: how did you create a Greenlandic language and how did you get it to work? I tried creating a new language but could not get the regens to have names in that language. 

 

Thanks

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7 ore fa, ameliapanda ha scritto:

Hello!

 

I know it's been a while since this was posted, but I'm working on a similar project right now and I have a question: how did you create a Greenlandic language and how did you get it to work? I tried creating a new language but could not get the regens to have names in that language. 

 

Thanks

 

Hi!

Creating the language is relatively easy and straightforward, with the Add Language option. But that's where the easy stuff ends with Greenland and Greenlandic!

Keep in mind though that usually name are generated according to the Language/Region combo, so if you create a language from scratch, you'll have to assign it a default region, which will dictate the newgens' ethnicity and naming conventions.

In this specific case, with Greenlandic having no ties with any other active language in-game, and with no active Region either, there isn't a preset pool for given names and surnames for the game to pick from.
So I had to go with Aleut group and Scandinavia region, getting a lot of Nordic-sounding names in the process. Which in itself could also half-work, it there was a way to get those names to be DANISH only (most surnames in Greenland are indeed Danish, but they're fewer and more specific compared to what is found on mainland Denmark).

With the addition of some players with Greenlandic given names in the db, the game'd then start to mix things up, providing enough of a blend between all-Danish sounding names and Inuit first name + Danish surname.

 

However I never went far enough to actually try it. All I saw was I was getting random Nordic names in greyed-out players, but then I started to delve into the convoluted regional league structure of the Greenlandic League, got frustrated with it and eventually dropped the whole project.
Maybe I'd have sorted out the basics (language, ethnicity, names etc) before tackling the tougher part of the creation...

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7 hours ago, RBKalle said:

 

Hi!

Creating the language is relatively easy and straightforward, with the Add Language option. But that's where the easy stuff ends with Greenland and Greenlandic!

Keep in mind though that usually name are generated according to the Language/Region combo, so if you create a language from scratch, you'll have to assign it a default region, which will dictate the newgens' ethnicity and naming conventions.

In this specific case, with Greenlandic having no ties with any other active language in-game, and with no active Region either, there isn't a preset pool for given names and surnames for the game to pick from.
So I had to go with Aleut group and Scandinavia region, getting a lot of Nordic-sounding names in the process. Which in itself could also half-work, it there was a way to get those names to be DANISH only (most surnames in Greenland are indeed Danish, but they're fewer and more specific compared to what is found on mainland Denmark).

With the addition of some players with Greenlandic given names in the db, the game'd then start to mix things up, providing enough of a blend between all-Danish sounding names and Inuit first name + Danish surname.

 

However I never went far enough to actually try it. All I saw was I was getting random Nordic names in greyed-out players, but then I started to delve into the convoluted regional league structure of the Greenlandic League, got frustrated with it and eventually dropped the whole project.
Maybe I'd have sorted out the basics (language, ethnicity, names etc) before tackling the tougher part of the creation...

thank you for your wonderful reply! such a shame that the project was dropped, luckily i'm only hoping to create a quasi-accurate league system and I care more about the national team haha.

 

on another note, how did you get players to have greenlandic sounding names? as in, how many players/non-players did you add, and is their a way to add them en-masse? 

 

once again, thank you for your (shockingly) fast reply!!

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3 ore fa, ameliapanda ha scritto:

how did you get players to have greenlandic sounding names? as in, how many players/non-players did you add, and is their a way to add them en-masse? 

I never made it that far...

My main priority was getting a half-realistic league structure, then with that in place I'd have moved on to add players to the teams. Unfortunately with the league system being too hard to crack, I gave up.

It's hard to tell how many players and staff could be needed to force the game to pick those over the thousands of pre-existing Scandinavian name combos... (Or American if you place it in North America)

If you look at the Faroe Islands, the game does a good job at replicating the names, although with a high % of duplicates (much higher than even IRL), and there are "only" around 550 people with Faroese nationality in recent FM databases.

So I suppose a similar amount could be enough... Which is around the amount of real-life names you'd normally add while populating the clubs (20 odd clubs with 16 players each, plus 3-4 staff members)

But this is assuming that Nationality will totally trump the Region where said nation is... IIRC San Marino newgens get mostly "typical" Sanmarinese ones and not any random Italian ones, so there's hope a couple of hundreds of Greenlandic names can be enough.

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21 hours ago, RBKalle said:

I never made it that far...

My main priority was getting a half-realistic league structure, then with that in place I'd have moved on to add players to the teams. Unfortunately with the league system being too hard to crack, I gave up.

It's hard to tell how many players and staff could be needed to force the game to pick those over the thousands of pre-existing Scandinavian name combos... (Or American if you place it in North America)

If you look at the Faroe Islands, the game does a good job at replicating the names, although with a high % of duplicates (much higher than even IRL), and there are "only" around 550 people with Faroese nationality in recent FM databases.

So I suppose a similar amount could be enough... Which is around the amount of real-life names you'd normally add while populating the clubs (20 odd clubs with 16 players each, plus 3-4 staff members)

But this is assuming that Nationality will totally trump the Region where said nation is... IIRC San Marino newgens get mostly "typical" Sanmarinese ones and not any random Italian ones, so there's hope a couple of hundreds of Greenlandic names can be enough.

I see. Is there a way to add a lot of players at once? Or would I have to add them one by one? 

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40 minuti fa, ameliapanda ha scritto:

I see. Is there a way to add a lot of players at once? Or would I have to add them one by one? 

I'm afraid you'll have to do it one by one :(

On the bright side, you won't find many informations about the players who aren't in the National Team, meaning all you'll have to add are Name, Surname, the odd D.o.B., Nationality and generic playing position...

It won't be fun, but for testing purposes all you really need are names.

(as a quick solution, create one player, then Duplicate him and change only his name, contract and position. It'll save you a couple of clicks for each player)

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8 hours ago, RBKalle said:

I'm afraid you'll have to do it one by one :(

On the bright side, you won't find many informations about the players who aren't in the National Team, meaning all you'll have to add are Name, Surname, the odd D.o.B., Nationality and generic playing position...

It won't be fun, but for testing purposes all you really need are names.

(as a quick solution, create one player, then Duplicate him and change only his name, contract and position. It'll save you a couple of clicks for each player)

eeek oh well thanks so much for your help!

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