Training :[

[lpichette]

The only thing I dislike in the iteration of fm about training is the general training section. I am forced to pick balanced training affecting all players in the same way. This seems silly and far too vague for the amount of depth this game provides. I would like to choose seperate trainings for defensive players while giving an entirely different set of instructions to my forwards and midfielders. I dont like the fact that on balanced your defenders are getting better at crossing and and useless attributes thus taking away pa points from more important attributes. Its impossible in this fm to create good attributes for 3 star players because im wasting pa on useless attributes. Why has it been done this way. I remember on 13 i think you could get much more in depth with training. What happened with that???

[hashassin]

you can always set individual training...

[Cougar2010]

You don't waste PA on useless attributes though.

If an attribute is useless or of very low priority for that position it costs little or no CA points.

[lpichette]

Yes on both points, but individual training is only a percentage of the training and general training still uses pa points.

I agree they dont cost as much but they still cost and it may only be 5-10 points over a players youth training but it still adds up. Especially when its a 3 star dude and every pa counts.

[Cougar2010]

Yes on both points, but individual training is only a percentage of the training and general training still uses pa points.

I agree they dont cost as much but they still cost and it may only be 5-10 points over a players youth training but it still adds up. Especially when its a 3 star dude and every pa counts.

Urm no thats not how it works.

[lpichette]

Hmm well...tell me how it does work. My understanding is as follows. A player has general training and individual training. The player spends a percentage of time on general training match training and personal training. How I see it is a player advances in attributes based only on general training and personal training, so PA points are spent in those areas as a player advances. How can that be considered wrong?

[vikeologist]

I'm far from an expert on this, but perhaps my little bit of knowledge will simplify things. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. The PA stays the same. The current ability will increase, partly through training, partly through getting matches. Thus thinking of PA being 'spent' is inaccurate. That's simply not how the game is coded.

2. I've started following the training philosophy of Cleon's Santos thread, where I have less general training, and focussed (and more) individual training (+ tutoring, personality moulding, match practice).

[lpichette]

I agree with the notion that the pa doesnt dissapear... my point I guess is that your "spending" PA on non essential attributes. I understand that if a player has a 140 pa that it doesnt decrease except for long term injuries etc. But that the points are spent in places I dont have much control. I also agree with spending more time on individual training and light on general and thats what I do, but every time I check my youth and 90% of his attributes are increasing that tells me general training is spending that players free PA points on attributes they dont need.

[Cougar2010]

Hmm well...tell me how it does work. My understanding is as follows. A player has general training and individual training. The player spends a percentage of time on general training match training and personal training. How I see it is a player advances in attributes based only on general training and personal training, so PA points are spent in those areas as a player advances. How can that be considered wrong?

Well the way I understand it.

Every player has a CA & PA (out of 200) and depending on the position(s) the player plays (and how competent he is at them) each attribute is assigned a ratio.

The current CA of the player (say 140 for example) is an overall representation of his current attributes (attributes points * ratios = his current CA).

His PA represents a ceiling for his CA (say 180 for example), so during his career his CA may or may not reach 180 (If it does he has reached his personal limit and won't improve further).

During a month and depending on game time/how he performs in training he earns CA points (Providing he hasn't reached his PA). Say he earns 5 CA points this month for example, those points are then distributed to attributes dependent on his general training (Balanced, Fitness, Tactics, Ball Control, Defending, Attacking). Each attribute used to fall under a different area of general training, so choosing fitness will see more CA points distributed to physical attributes but probably not all of them. So you get CA points split between attributes * attribute ratio = actual attribute gain (FM measures to one decimal place I believe).

Choosing a new position or PPM for the player to learn will reduce the CA points can earn in that time, you are basically teaching him a new position or PPM for the cost of slower attribute growth which is an acceptable and realistic trade off. Whilst picking a focus attribute will allocate more of the "earned" CA points into that attribute.

[lpichette]

We are saying the exact same thing and I agree with everything you just said. But that changes nothing of my complaints about how training works.

[Cougar2010]

We are saying the exact same thing and I agree with everything you just said. But that changes nothing of my complaints about how training works.

Your original complaint was that useless attributes take away PA points (Should be CA).

Well they don't, they never have and never will, those attributes have much lower ratios and therefore take very minimal if anything away from the more important attributes irrelevant of the player's position(s).

[lpichette]

I can understand that I suppose, but you must have some balance. That works great for some saves, but not great for others. When all you can get is 3 star players and they already start out at lets say 90/135 and thats the best player your skrill team could ever hope for and your stuck training the player on general training it is frustrating. Or I have a striker that has 12 for marking as a base newgen stat I dont want him to get better at marking I want him to get better at just about anything else. Just should be a little tweaking is all. I dont feel like IRL you would have a CD practicing crossing or trying to be overly flairy. Like I said this game is way too deep to hold you back on something as important as training.

[Guest El Payaso]

For me the main problem with the new training system has always been the fact that you can't train a player versatilely enough. For example I had Jordan Binns as my full-back in Boston United, he had good defensive attributes but was lacking physically. With the old system I could have created a customised training schelude for him that focuses on all parts of physical training at the same time; stamina, strenght, pace, balance and so on... With this new system I could only train him to a certain role or improve one of those attributes he's lacking. Maybe you should bring more individual focuses into the game, like one that concentrates improving player's overall physical presence? When setting player to an individual role training there are many attributes they are training at the same time so why shouldn't you be able do that when looking to improve certain attributes also?

[lpichette]

I agree the individual training focus is nice, but the general settings suck because absolutely everyone on your squad must go through the same training....which is not like real life and it doesnt work right in this game.

[Cleon]

An individual focus option for a general fitness training regime is a good shout.

A better option imo would be more individual focuses that aren't roles but rather a set of attributes for certain styles/scenarios like;

Technique focus - Passing, dribbling, first touch etc

Defensive - tackling, marking, concentration, composure

Without the ball - closing down, marking, positioning,

Communication - Teamwork, workrate, decisions

Speed - Pace, acceleration, agility, balance

[phnompenhandy]

I agree the individual training focus is nice, but the general settings suck because absolutely everyone on your squad must go through the same training....which is not like real life and it doesnt work right in this game.

Then put General Training on very low and individual training settings on heavy.

[lpichette]

Then put General Training on very low and individual training settings on heavy.

I thought that exactly and tried it, however the players whine about low levels of training even after I took away rest days and dropped match day training down it was still only light to medium and for whatever reason it pissed off half of my players.

[RTHerringbone]

A better option imo would be more individual focuses that aren't roles but rather a set of attributes for certain styles/scenarios like;

Technique focus - Passing, dribbling, first touch etc

Defensive - tackling, marking, concentration, composure

Without the ball - closing down, marking, positioning,

Communication - Teamwork, workrate, decisions

Speed - Pace, acceleration, agility, balance

100% this.

And, if we could create custom groups to assign players to, so that the focus and intensity we assign to that group is cascaded to everyone in that group, it would save so much inefficient clicking.

[lpichette]

100% this.

And, if we could create custom groups to assign players to, so that the focus and intensity we assign to that group is cascaded to everyone in that group, it would save so much inefficient clicking.

I second this notion. Or third I suppose.

[tjampman]

A better option imo would be more individual focuses that aren't roles but rather a set of attributes for certain styles/scenarios like;

Technique focus - Passing, dribbling, first touch etc

Defensive - tackling, marking, concentration, composure

Without the ball - closing down, marking, positioning,

Communication - Teamwork, workrate, decisions

Speed - Pace, acceleration, agility, balance

I wishing for this feature too, I actully think that was how training worked last time i played the game, think it was CM01/02.