Problems scoring with my 4-1-2-2-1

[jdreyer]

Hi guys.

After three promotions in a row and a fairly successful first season in the premier league (finished 13th), I've been struggling with my tactic. I can't understand what's wrong. I'm dominating possession, but don't convert possession into chances. Think the defensive problems I've had has something to do with this as well...

So here's the tactic:

Balanced - Counter Attack

Kee: Sweeper Keeper - Defend - Distribute to defenders

DCx2: Central Defender - Defend

DR: Fullback - Attack - Cross more often, Get further forward, More risky passes, Stay wider

DL: Fullback - Attack - Cross more often, Get further forward, More risky passes, Stay wider

DMC: Deep Lying Playmaker - Defend - Close down less

MCR: Midfielder Central - Attack

MCL: Advanced Playmaker - Support

AMR: Winger - Support

AML: Inside Forward - Attack - More risky passes

ST: Trequartista

Team instructions:

Shorter Passing

Work Ball Into Box

Play Out Of Defence

Much Higher Defensive Line

Allow wide players to swap

Hassle Opponents

Much Higher Tempo

[19MiRkO91]

Well, first of all I would try to watch highlights and see why the ball was lost without creating any chance. How are you crossing? Are the crossing good enough for your striker/midfielders? Or maybe, you're not crossing (which is what I think, since you're using a Treq) and your team can't find a way to break down the opposition. The only really thing I wouldn't do (since you're using an IF and a W) is to allow your wide players to swap. Maybe, by swapping, they found each other in roles they do not suit.

[jdreyer]

The ball is often lost around of the oppositions penalty area, simply because it's packed...

Have tried both drill crosses and "normal" crossing... My TQ is decent in the air (jumping 12, agility 15, strenght 14, off the ball 19, anticipation 15, heading 15 and finishing 16)

Fullbacks have cross more often as a player instruction, and my winger cross.

Both wide player are capable of playing either roles (think coutinho as the winger and walcott as the inside forward), but I've tried dropping that instruction as well with no success...

[RTHerringbone]

Instinctively, I'd question the use of a Trequartista as a lone striker.

What is his contribution like in terms of goals and assists?

For a lone striker, my personal preference is to have a consistently positioned reference point that the rest of your team can play off.

With a Treq roaming about, it means details like who and where your Winger crosses to are made more complicated.

[jdreyer]

TQ last 3 seasons (I've more or less played the same tactic, and always a TQ up front):

Matches - Goals - Assists

34 - 25 - 14 (in champinship)

25 - 10 - 5 (in PL)

23 - 9 - 2 (2nd season in PL)

How about a false 9 or complete forward on support?

[RTHerringbone]

He still seems to be contributing pretty well.

Who scores your other goals?

I wonder if your reputation is increasing and teams are adjusting how they approach you, but your fundamental playing style hasn't changed.

If the opposition box is packed, it is because they are deep and compact, and your High Line and High Tempo don't attempt to draw them out.

I'd consider looking at the set up of the team rather than the individuals to see if you can change things.

Start by tweaking tempo and line to create a bit more space.

[jdreyer]

My inside forward last 3 seasons: takes corners from one side...

Matches - Goals - Assists

40 - 10 - 7 (Champinonship)

31 - 8 - 8 (PL)

29 - 5 - 9 (PL)

Winger:

42 - 13 - 7 (Championship : Former player)

23 - 2 - 3 (PL : New 18yo player)

25 - 4 - 4 (PL : takes corners from one side)

CM -attack:

40 - 10 - 8

36 - 6 - 2 (PL)

25 - 2 - 2 (PL)

AP - support:

42 - 8 - 14

37 - 1 - 4 (PL)

30 - 1 - 3 (PL)

DCs have scored 12 in Championship, 6 and 8 in PL

Will try new team instructions: Higher tempo and higer def line

[RTHerringbone]

Try and watch a Full Match to gauge how the changes are affecting thing.

The key thing is that you want to create space to attack, but deny space for the AI to exploit.

Once you can see both sides of the space balance, you'll be better at judging what will work best.

A good idea is to pause a game in different phases of play to see where your players are.

So, when attacking and the ball carrier is on half way, pause and see what his options are.

When defending and the AI ball carrier has the ball on half way, are your players appropriately placed to stop passes and / or cover space?

[peleJunior]

The ball is often lost around of the oppositions penalty area, simply because it's packed...

Shorter Passing

Work Ball Into Box

Play Out Of Defence

Much Higher Defensive Line

Allow wide players to swap

Hassle Opponents

Much Higher Tempo

The ball is often lost around of the oppositions penalty area, simply because it's packed...

All this should be screaming out at you. In games where the AI are soaking up your pressure, have a look at the Analysis tab and check the AI's average positions. If they have 10 players behind the half way line or something high like that and the defenders are very deep then you need to create better space to attack them.

1. You could try play wider to stretch them out and use overlaps.

2. You could ditch your high line and high tempo and encourage them to come out more by suffocating them of the ball (frustrate them)

3. You could ditch your shorter passing and not allow the AI time to recover to their defensive positions by playing more direct.

There are other ways, I'm sure people will post about. What can happen in these types of games is your team will become more and more frustrated/anxious/nervous lose concentration and be done on the break.

[jdreyer]

Just played 3 matches after adjusting tempo and d-line. 1-0 win at home against Blackburn and a 6-0 win at home against Arsenal My TQ getting 1 goal and 3 assists... And a 2-1 loss against Man City away, played a good game but lost to a better team. Will continue with this setup for now, but any hints or tips that can make my tactic even better is welcome

[jdreyer]

New season, and we're back to old sins... Have tried tweaking tempo, d-line, width and my strikers role and duty(CF s/a, f9, tq), but nothing seem to work...

Noticed my IF was losing the ball often when dribbling, so i gave him "dribble less" as a new player instruction... Made no difference...

My frustration is growing

[RTHerringbone]

Are you tweaking things based on your team in isolation, or relative to the way the opposition are playing against you?

FM14 is pretty tough as the AI seems to me to be far more intelligent with how it sets up against you, and how it changes throughout the match.

As such, if your Roles and Duties are sound, it may be that you need to be modifying your Team Instructions rather than individual player settings, on a game by game basis.

[jdreyer]

Been doing a bit of both, but ensuring that tactic familiarity stays high. so no major changes on a game by game basis...

The one thing I've noticed is that the ball carrier (when I attack) is often one of the 2-3 players furthest forward on the pitch, which in tur gives the ball carrier very few attacking passing options... Have tried lowering tempo to help this, but that often results in the ball being lost because my player is lingering with the ball...

Ah, one more thing... My two central midfielders often gets in the way of each other... Haven't found an explanation or solution to this either...

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Y'know, I can never get that formation to work in any fm game. It concedes tons of possession and does jack all for me.

Must be a formation that doesn't work with me(!)

[furiousuk]

Its probably not a formation that is great with really controlling possession (Barcelona aside) and doing a good job with it. Barcelona played fairly deep and often attacked from deep very very quickly and it was the change of pace and the timing that killed teams, the formation helped of course but its hard to do the tempo change thing in FM.

That aside, to the OP, are you finding that teams are just parking the bus? You're pushing right up and space is very limited. This isnt necessarily a bad thing if you are technical and smart enough to play beautiful footy in tight spaces but its probably not a generic way to win every game and there are times when you need to increase the space (playing deeper, slightly longer and more through balls is one way). You can still play incredible football that way and not necessarily concede possession either if thats the way you want to go.

Having said all that I do like a CF up top because it helps if he is looking for goals too (as well as creating) but a TQ can be very exciting up top when you get it working. Having a think about it, what sort of guy is your IF? With a creator up top he should probably be your primary goaal threat. Also, do you ever try dual IF's? It could well further cramp a tight space but if you were thinking of a more direct game for some situations it may be an option and will give the TQ more threats moving beyond him.

[jdreyer]

There's nothing wrong with the formation. Has worked very well for me in previous saves and games.

Won PL with Liverpool 1st season using the tactic in #1 (only change was Suarez playing as CFa).

[jdreyer]

That aside, to the OP, are you finding that teams are just parking the bus? You're pushing right up and space is very limited. This isnt necessarily a bad thing if you are technical and smart enough to play beautiful footy in tight spaces but its probably not a generic way to win every game and there are times when you need to increase the space (playing deeper, slightly longer and more through balls is one way). You can still play incredible football that way and not necessarily concede possession either if thats the way you want to go.

I don't think sides necessarily set out to park the bus, I think my side makes them (hope that makes sense )

My team is the 4th most technical side in PL, Creativty: 1st, Passing: 1st, Decisions: 12th, 1st-touch: 4th.

I'm not that concerned with possession, it's more about feeling in control when the opponent has the ball. Whether I have 40-45% possession, or 60-65%, doesn't matter as long as I feel in control of the game...

I'll try a deeper more direct approach to som games to see if I can change some draws into wins...

Having said all that I do like a CF up top because it helps if he is looking for goals too (as well as creating) but a TQ can be very exciting up top when you get it working. Having a think about it, what sort of guy is your IF? With a creator up top he should probably be your primary goaal threat. Also, do you ever try dual IF's? It could well further cramp a tight space but if you were thinking of a more direct game for some situations it may be an option and will give the TQ more threats moving beyond him.

I will try a CF again and see if that changes anything...

My IF is a bit like Daniel Sturridge (in game), but better.

Haven't tested dual IF in FM14, but in FM13 i felt it became a bit "congested" (I played a direct counter attacking style)

[isignedupfornorealreason]

There's nothing wrong with the formation. Has worked very well for me in previous saves and games.

Won PL with Liverpool 1st season using the tactic in #1 (only change was Suarez playing as CFa).

True, but for me it never works. I can pull of 4-2-4's (mostly), or 4-2-3-1's and I'm brutal with a flat 4-4-2 but give me this formation and it just kills the game for me. I guarantee I'll have Fulham looking amazing while I'm controlling Manchester United with it. Maybe I lack the understanding of that formation/tactic.

[furiousuk]

I'm not that concerned with possession, it's more about feeling in control when the opponent has the ball. Whether I have 40-45% possession, or 60-65%, doesn't matter as long as I feel in control of the game...

It would be great if loads of other people thought like this too!

I don't think sides necessarily set out to park the bus, I think my side makes them (hope that makes sense )

I know exactly what you mean.

Normally when I get into this situation pulling deeper and/or playing very patiently seems to work. Sometimes its a case of battering the opposition before 60 minutes and staying at 0-0 only to run away with the game in the last half hour when you've finally broken them down. Sometimes it does take that long, the key I guess is holding your nerve! Not easy

[jdreyer]

I know exactly what you mean.

Normally when I get into this situation pulling deeper and/or playing very patiently seems to work. Sometimes its a case of battering the opposition before 60 minutes and staying at 0-0 only to run away with the game in the last half hour when you've finally broken them down. Sometimes it does take that long, the key I guess is holding your nerve! Not easy

This is a good advice I might be trying to change something that doesn't need changing... only patience...

I've now played a full season with this tactic:

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/702858037047489081/591154442D8381EC4CC2366FDD5887CAC5916A7B/

Player instruction as in OP, but removed risky passing for IF because it led to more loss off possession than chances...

I get by with decent results, but im not happy with goals for and against... I PL I scored 19 goals from corners... 8 Penalties... My squad is better than what my results suggests... Scored: 1.7 avg/Conceded: 1.1 avg -> This gives an average of around 1 goal avg scored from open play... and that's way too low...

I don't know what to do next season, but maybe I have to try a deeper and more patient version of my tactic... At least as a plan B...

Any advice on further tweaking would me most welcome

[jdreyer]

New season, same problem...

I play the same tactic, and have a plan B (same tactic, roles and duties), control, drop deeper, play wider and much lower tempo... but this doesn't help...

I'm doing OK, but still average under 1 goal from open play per match... half my goals come from set pieces... really running out of ideas!

If you need more information to help, don't hesitate asking

[jdreyer]

Still struggling...

Made som changes to my tactic, but I'm still having problems scoring... Only PIs is more risky passes for W and IF.

Have uploaded a couple of pkms. Hope someone could have a look, and hopefully spot what I'm clearly missing... I've kept the tactic unchanged for all matches.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uclowu5139pgxc5/York%20v%20Chelsea.pkm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qzrk15z39reoflc/Wigan%20v%20York.pkm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qzrk15z39reoflc/Wigan%20v%20York.pkm

[cainite]

unfortunately you probably won't find any help here or anywhere since things are happening too randomly in this game and analysing won't make much good for that reason. and the game is buggy as hell. i've been trying to play with the same tactic for a long time but ever since this last patch i'm not doing any good either.i've got numerous woes though like my Treq(or any other role) shoots even when he got much better options-usually from wingers or IFs and as for them it seem for some reason the corner flags seem to be pulling them even when they have open lines towards the post so the attack ends up in corners(at least 15 corners per game-with my player having 20 for crossing) and they will not cross(or pass) to any of my players who are in an appropriate position before the goal. instead they simply wait for the opposition to tackle the ball.

[RTHerringbone]

unfortunately you probably won't find any help here or anywhere since things are happening too randomly in this game and analysing won't make much good for that reason. and the game is buggy as hell. i've been trying to play with the same tactic for a long time but ever since this last patch i'm not doing any good either.i've got numerous woes though like my Treq(or any other role) shoots even when he got much better options-usually from wingers or IFs and as for them it seem for some reason the corner flags seem to be pulling them even when they have open lines towards the post so the attack ends up in corners(at least 15 corners per game-with my player having 20 for crossing) and they will not cross(or pass) to any of my players who are in an appropriate position before the goal. instead they simply wait for the opposition to tackle the ball.

As you have repeatedly proven in the GD Feedback thread, and the Stupid Questions thread here, your reading of "better options" is often questionable.

The game has bugs but is eminently playable. Please stop spamming multiple areas of the forum with your negative attitude.

[Dr. Hook]

See, the thing is, every version that comes out there are loads of people on the forum complaining that the game is broken, doesn't work properly, is unplayable etc. Every damn year it's the same song. And yet every year there are plenty of people who have fun with it and it works fine for them. I am one of those people. Of course there are issues with it, There will always be issues, but to come into a guy's thread who is asking for help and getting it, and tell him it's hopeless because the game is broken is not a class move. It's fine if you don't like it, but leave the rest of us alone, will you?

[cainite]

See, the thing is, every version that comes out there are loads of people on the forum complaining that the game is broken, doesn't work properly, is unplayable etc. Every damn year it's the same song. And yet every year there are plenty of people who have fun with it and it works fine for them. I am one of those people. Of course there are issues with it, There will always be issues, but to come into a guy's thread who is asking for help and getting it, and tell him it's hopeless because the game is broken is not a class move. It's fine if you don't like it, but leave the rest of us alone, will you?

not saying it's unplayable.i am "playing" it right now but playing it and trying to play it are different things. i would like to know wht the things are happening when they do.it's just simply devolved (in terms of ME) since FM12.especially in attacking variations and i'm bringing these up simply because i would like see the game improved in future but instead i see it becoming less and less enjoyable with every patch.but concerning posting in another's thread you are right.i won't post here anymore

[bluesjunior]

I think your problem is with your DM/DLP. You have him set on less closing down, personally I would put him on more closing down, after all his job is to get the ball from oppo attackers and set your counters going. If he can tackle I would put him on hard tackling as well.

[jdreyer]

I've removed close down less for my DM. You'll find the tactic I'm currently using in my last post (post #22)

[jdreyer]

Anyone able to help me out?

[cainite]

Anyone able to help me out?

like i said they probably won't be able to help but perhaps you could try moving your wide players(all four of them) one slot up and making your advanced wide players APs that is if they have abilities to that end. you could ,then, free your midfielders from the burden of playmaking and give them more attack-oriented duties such as CMa and BBM and if you elect to do these changes i think exploit the flanks should be chosen too

[jdreyer]

like i said they probably won't be able to help but perhaps you could try moving your wide players(all four of them) one slot up and making your advanced wide players APs that is if they have abilities to that end. you could ,then, free your midfielders from the burden of playmaking and give them more attack-oriented duties such as CMa and BBM and if you elect to do these changes i think exploit the flanks should be chosen too

Why shouldn't anyone be able to help? I'm finding lots of help in the stickies by Cleon, llama3 and wwfan... Just can't figure out how to make my tactic score more goals from open play... I'm far too reliant on set pieces...

Regarding your advice, how would that help? Already have a MCa and the other MC-APs...

[RTHerringbone]

Here's an idea you haven't tried....

I notice that you tend to play a Counter Mentality, and then push up your line and increase the Tempo.

Try and flip the thinking round and go with a more Attacking Mentality, and drop your line and decrease your Tempo. Give Control or Attacking a try.

The most important thing this will do is change the passing mentality of your team - your defend duties will more patiently pass the ball around, and the attack duties will play more directly (this is flipped when you use more Defensive Mentalities). I wonder if your lack of incision up front relates to the balance of how you pass and where. If you patiently pass about at the back you may pull the opposition forward, and then if the ball is played to your more offensive players and they play a quicker, more incisive way, it may be enough to take advantage of any gaps that appear.

[jdreyer]

Here's an idea you haven't tried....

I notice that you tend to play a Counter Mentality, and then push up your line and increase the Tempo.

Try and flip the thinking round and go with a more Attacking Mentality, and drop your line and decrease your Tempo. Give Control or Attacking a try.

The most important thing this will do is change the passing mentality of your team - your defend duties will more patiently pass the ball around, and the attack duties will play more directly (this is flipped when you use more Defensive Mentalities). I wonder if your lack of incision up front relates to the balance of how you pass and where. If you patiently pass about at the back you may pull the opposition forward, and then if the ball is played to your more offensive players and they play a quicker, more incisive way, it may be enough to take advantage of any gaps that appear.

Thanks! Actually just set up my pre season planning to play a full season with one attack and one control strategy to compare to my counter. Wasn't planning to drop deep and decrease tempo, but will try that now. I didn't know about the change in passing, but that might be what is wrong with my tactic... Stressing the ball from defence to attacking midfielders/other attackers may cause bad decisions in attack, and not being able to break through defenses.

[RTHerringbone]

the reason i gave you that advice is because not much in this game works logically.especially with that formation. like you i too am reliant on set pieces.also i wanted to ask you, do your wingers get isolated?do they dribble towards the corner post often like there is a ball magnet there.and do they ever manage to pass the ball into the box?

Stop spreading nonsense just because you're unhappy with the current state of the game.

Plenty of other users are happy, and plenty of other users are seeking constructive advice as to how to improve their fortunes.

Gibberish like "not much in this game works logically, especially with that formation" is incorrect, unhelpful, and unwanted.

If you want to moan, do so constructively in the General Discussion Feedback Thread.

If you want genuine help and advice, post accordingly in here.

[cainite]

Stop spreading nonsense just because you're unhappy with the current state of the game.

Plenty of other users are happy, and plenty of other users are seeking constructive advice as to how to improve their fortunes.

Gibberish like "not much in this game works logically, especially with that formation" is incorrect, unhelpful, and unwanted.

If you want to moan, do so constructively in the General Discussion Feedback Thread.

If you want genuine help and advice, post accordingly in here.

take it easy , i'm just trying to learn if the same positions are happening in his game too since he's using the same formation

[RTHerringbone]

take it easy , i'm just trying to learn if the same positions are happening in his game too since he's using the same formation

You have been asked before to stop spamming threads with these context-less still images which mean nothing in isolation.

You have logged bug reports before, do so again if you have a genuine appetite to get things investigated.

This section of the forum is not for raising potential bugs, it is for helping people who are asking for tactical advice.

One last time: Please stop it.

[cainite]

You have been asked before to stop spamming threads with these context-less still images which mean nothing in isolation.

You have logged bug reports before, do so again if you have a genuine appetite to get things investigated.

This section of the forum is not for raising potential bugs, it is for helping people who are asking for tactical advice.

One last time: Please stop it.

i am not spamming i've posted screenshots just to learn whether or not this kind of things are happening in his game too. just let him answer will you?

[RTHerringbone]

i am not spamming i've posted screenshots just to learn whether or not this kind of things are happening in his game too. just let him answer will you?

The OP isn't asking for this sort of "advice". He has asked a series of specific questions about his game (not yours).

Stop spamming. Post in the Bugs Forum to do something productive.

[cainite]

The OP isn't asking for this sort of "advice". He has asked a series of specific questions about his game (not yours).

Stop spamming. Post in the Bugs Forum to do something productive.

he said he's not converting possession into chances and that's my issue too.so in order to compare our games and try to gain some insight i 've mentioned some plays and posted screenshots and asked if the same things are happening to him too(he may not be watching games in Comprehensive mode) please don't drag this any further and let him answer

btw i've posted in bugs forum and the issues are still the same so maybe it's something tactical

[deserter]

Here's an idea you haven't tried....

I notice that you tend to play a Counter Mentality, and then push up your line and increase the Tempo.

Try and flip the thinking round and go with a more Attacking Mentality, and drop your line and decrease your Tempo. Give Control or Attacking a try.

I think this is well worth exploring.

Counter strategy, combined with trying to control the game in opposition half is, in my opinion, a little bit conflicting. Counter strategy is intended for drawing your opponents to your half, winning the ball and breaking quickly if there's a good opportunity. If there isn't then it's a safety first strategy.

Indeed the game itself has this to say about it:

"This mentality is best employed for matches in which you expect to lose the battle for possession but feel you can break with some regularity.

it aims to keep men behind the ball when defending but to provide quick support to attacking players when the ball is in the final third.

It relies on getting the ball forward quickly enough to expose the spaces behind aggressive full-backs and winger, with players tending to stay deeper and maintain defensive shape if the break looks like coming to nothing."

Attacking strategy:

"This mentality is best employed for matches that you are favourites to win and expect to dominate possession in your opponent's half.

It aims to exploit space in the final third by employing a fast tempo and direct attacking passing supported by defensive mentality aimed at recycling possession.

It focuses heavily on getting players forward and into space and allows them the creative freedom to express themselves."

I suppose that with right settings you could turn attacking strategy into something of a more aggressive counter strategy.

i am not spamming i've posted screenshots just to learn whether or not this kind of things are happening in his game too. just let him answer will you?

It's the same game for everyone so anything that happens on your game is happening on everyone's game. I don't expect the players to make the best decisions most of the time. It's impossible to say anything of substance from a single picture of yours. Why don't you start a thread of your own, dedicated to your issues, with video clips instead of pictures, with info about your team settings, player settings, player attributes, body language, personality, prevalence of these bad decisions as opposed to the prevalence of the good decisions.

Those who are interested will come to you then, and we (I) won't have to read all about it here.

(How many last warnings is there going to be?)

[Torskus77]

I find all the posts about the game not working pretty funny. It's a frustrating game, that's for sure, but if you are going to spend so much time complaining about it, I'd just find another hobby personally. Lots of things people say don't work, I have managed to do, I've pulled almost all of my hair out in doing so, but it was never impossible.

I read a lot about the fact 4-2-3-1 didn't work on FM2014, and how counter attacking football doesn't work. I just finished in the play offs in the Sky Bet Championship with a side barely good enough to finish top six in League 1, using only 4-2-3-1 playing counter attacking football. The guy is doing the right thing by asking for advice, reading, learning, experimenting, he can improve his team, and his game.

To the OP, fwiw, I have played that formation, using counter attacking football in the previous season when I got promoted with a weakish side relative to the division, using a lot of kids. Personally having a deep defensive line seemed key to getting counter attacking football to work, your shouts seem the complete opposite of what counter attack is trying to achieve. So I'd either change some of those (Deep, or much deeper defensive line, Stay on feet, Hit Early cross, pass in to space) all worked well in various situations for me. Or go for a more aggressive mentality with your pressing. With a much higher defensive line, and hassle opponents, you aren't going to have a great shape to your side imo.

[dooro23]

FFS, another thread I was trying to read until those stupid screenies came along.

[cainite]

okay i've deleted pics and for jdreyer i've recently made a tactic that partially helped my woes, in order to avoid two midfielders getting into the way of each other i'd suggest AP(s) and DLP(s) combination with DM(d) behind the line but the two front MCs should not be allowed to dribble in order to provide less bumping into one another(dribble less) and they should definitely close down more while DM should close down less to provide cover for the space they leave and for the TREQ he should be dribbling more and make short passes while disencouraged to shoot(shoot less often - although in my case he still shoots even when he's got available passing oppurtunities)

-still experimenting with wide players

-i think standard mentality should be applied -control is unnecessary since you can provide possesion by carefully instructing each player with --pass it shorter-- and this is important every single one of players-including GK is to be instructed this way in order to get the desired possession but hopefully standart mentality will make sure they don't dwell on it much and pass the ball around forming as many triangles as possible

-other than that if you plan to use IF make sure they are both on attack duties and instruct them to shoot less often to lessen the number of unnecessary shots and make them sit narrower in order to have them in the passing play.they should also get cross less often since i've never get them do any decent crossing even though mine both have 20 for crossing(although this can be related to playing one man up front) oh and of course Do NOT let them dribble the ball they lose possesion far too often around the penalty box

-as i said i my case applying Standart mentality seems to make the opp penalty box a little less congested so a little more room for TREQ and if he can also play in AM position you can try playing without a forward.

-do not choose Pass into Space - for possesion purposes, retain possesion(along with pass shorter) should be applied

-fluidity-wise i'm still not sure have this one effect ,but fluid or very fluid maybe?

-and GK should distribute to defenders-although sometimes this doesn't work for some reason

[jdreyer]

okay i've deleted pics and for jdreyer i've recently made a tactic that partially helped my woes, in order to avoid two midfielders getting into the way of each other i'd suggest AP(s) and DLP(s) combination with DM(d) behind the line but the two front MCs should not be allowed to dribble in order to provide less bumping into one another(dribble less) and they should definitely close down more while DM should close down less to provide cover for the space they leave and for the TREQ he should be dribbling more and make short passes while disencouraged to shoot(shoot less often - although in my case he still shoots even when he's got available passing oppurtunities)

Thanks for cleaning up the thread.

I don't think we have the same problems. But you might find some help in the stickies. Read wwfan's twelve steps thread, Cleon's design, create & maintain and llama3's pairs & combinations. These should be read even if you don't believe they can help you. Also, Cleon's Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion (FM13 thread) is a very interesting thread.

-still experimenting with wide players

I've had some success with all wide roles in FM13 and FM14, except wide targetman (simply because I haven't tried it).

[jdreyer]

@RTHerringbone

Where can I find information on passing mentality? I vaguely remember reading about it, but I have no idea where... Can't even remember if it was on this forum... I'm especially interested in the passing mentality of counter, standard and control.

Have played a few games on attack, but don't feel as in control as I would have liked to... This might be down to my choice of roles and duties, so I will try tweaking these before changing strategy.

[RTHerringbone]

@RTHerringbone

Where can I find information on passing mentality? I vaguely remember reading about it, but I have no idea where... Can't even remember if it was on this forum... I'm especially interested in the passing mentality of counter, standard and control.

I'm not sure to be honest, it's just something that has stuck in my head.

Think of it as passing traits which travel in opposite directions within the Mentalities depending on Duty:

At the Contain end, the Defend Duty passing style is Direct, but it incrementally heads Shorter as you progress up the scale towards Overload, where it becomes Short.

Conversely, at the Contain end, the Attack Duty passing style is Short, but it incrementally heads more Direct as you progress up the scale towards Overload, where it becomes Direct.

The Standard Mentality sees that passing structure cross paths - all players are on the equivalent of mixed.

Throughout the Mentality scale, Support Duties will have mixed passing.

You also have to be aware that some Roles don't change their Passing style irrespective of Duty. A Limited Defender will not pass short. Playmakers are always mixed (as are Ball Playing Defenders).