Tactic Creator Or Sliders?

[BeadyRoller]

Which do most of you use? I always seem to think I've created a good tactic with the Tactic Creator but I always seem to struggle, no matter what team I am. For instance I started a new Arsenal save yesterday and set up everything correctly and failed to even qualify for the Champions League, I'm really getting frustrated with this game as I don't even know what I'm doing wrong any more. Is it because I'm just using the Tactic Creator to create the tactic?

What do most of you use and get the best results from?

Cheers.

[ham_aka_stam]

The tactics creator (plus shouts) contain the ability to do everything you can do within the old "slider style" tactics.

What I prefer to do is use the creator style, but customise them manually. I let the roles set the 20 pt sliders, but I take control of the player's instructions, HUB, Roaming, Wideplay etc.

Are you using shouts at all? Are you doing anything to nullify the threats of the opposition/attempt to overcome their weaknesses?

What is specifically going wrong on a game-by-game basis? Just saying "couldn't qualify for the CL" isn't that descriptive. But I can assure you your problem is not because you're using the TC.

[jman89]

I use the tactics creator with shouts because its easier to adapt to different threats from different opposition. i have tweaked the tempo, width, RWB, forward runs and through balls. I also play as arsenal and have had great success with the tactics i use. what formation/roles are you using?

[Cleon]

The TC is fantastic but if you don't use the shouts or have no interest in using them, then there is no reason to use the TC. If you don't use shouts when using the TC then you're missing a good 70% of the functions by missing them out.

I still like classic set up especially how Ham mentioned what he does above. But for me and convenience the TC is much simpler and less fiddly.

[BeadyRoller]

Ahhh I get you, I was doing the occasional shout but didn't think they were as important as you three have made them out to be! I don't understand them fully you see. So say if I was getting dominated in a game what shouts would you suggest I choose?

Ham, my aim is to create a very nice attacking flowing possession game, replicating Arsenal's style if you like, I've heard a slow tempo and short passing is a good way to do this but my Ass Man feed back was saying I was giving the ball away a lot?

What d'you suggest?

Thanks.

[furiousuk]

Shout selection is a whole new field! Cool though!

If you were getting dominated then it would depend how. Just think about htem logically and you won't go far wrong e.g. oppo playmakers having too much time on the ball then maybe you want to close down harder and possibly 'get stuck in' to rough them up a bit, oppo strikers getting loads of joy running in behind you then you might want to drop deeper, your boys are struggling to get any penetration then you might want to play wider and play more through balls (pass into space). But, then again, you might disagree and use different shouts. There isn't a right and wrong per se, just what works and what doesn't in each different situation. Getting to know which shouts to use takes experience and nouse but it's nothing more than trying it, watching and then learning.

There's loads of different ways to set up as an Arsenal-style (or Wenger-style) tactic. Whether it fits your team (or this seasons Arsenal team) is a different matter.What have you got going at the moment? Why do you feel you're giving the ball away? Are you players taking too long on the ball and getting tackled? Trying speculative passes too often? Not enough movement? etc etc

[Cleon]

Ahhh I get you, I was doing the occasional shout but didn't think they were as important as you three have made them out to be! I don't understand them fully you see. So say if I was getting dominated in a game what shouts would you suggest I choose?

Ham, my aim is to create a very nice attacking flowing possession game, replicating Arsenal's style if you like, I've heard a slow tempo and short passing is a good way to do this but my Ass Man feed back was saying I was giving the ball away a lot?

What d'you suggest?

Thanks.

Here are what the shouts do, then you can decide which would be beneficial for you based on certain events;

Defensive Distribution

Play Out of Defence –It will instruct any player with a defensive duty (midfield and defence) to play shorter passes. So it reduces passing. It’s worth using this if you find that these players are just hoofing the ball forward and giving possession away cheaply.

Pump Ball Into Box – This is great to use when you are chasing a goal late in a game. It instructs players to pass longer and play through the middle. It tells your defenders (and defensive midfielders) to try less through balls. If you use wide players it will ask them (and fullbacks) to hold up the ball rather than trying to play down the channels and instruct fullbacks to cross more (so make sure they are set to cross from deep). Your strikers will be told to run from deep more often.

It’s also great to use this is you have big target men type forwards who tower over the defenders and are good in the air. You can score quite a few goals by using this shout I’ve found out.

Clear Ball to Flanks - This shout instructs players to pass long, to play wider and focus play down the wings. It also tells defenders (and defensive midfielders) to play less through balls. I generally use this if teams play narrower (the narrow Man City 4231) than me. It’s also good for counter attacking if the opposition are playing through the middle.

Defensive Line

Push Higher Up - Self explanatory this one. You instruct the defence to move high up the pitch and increases closing down. Ideal for using if you are facing slow strikers (you need intelligent defenders though), a team who are very defensive or if you want to reduce the space that the opposition is playing in.

Drop Deeper – Again explains itself but it tells the players to drop back deeper and reduces closing down. Times to use this are if you play against a team who pushes high up themselves and you are struggling to find any kind of space. Dropping deeper could see you create a bit more space. It’s also good to employ against fast strikers.

Tackling

Get Stuck In - This tells the team to tackle hard. Useful if the motivation widget tells you if the opposition are playing nervous or if a team has low bravery. Use this if you get the sense of your team been to0 soft and you think they could be winning the ball back quicker. Note though that you need the correct attributes from your own players to time the challenge right or you could pick up extra bookings and sending off’s.

Stay On Feet – Everyone (unless you use a BWM) will be instructed to easy tackle. This is useful if you feel challenges are been miss-timed or if you are just been reckless. Also good to use if your players are lack the tackling attribute. Using this also helps the team keep its defensive shape, especially against technically fast sides.

Passing

Pass Into Space - This is one of my favourite shouts to use especially if I am struggling to break down the opposition. It increases through balls so the players pass the ball in front of the receiver so he can run onto the ball. It’s great for creating space and forcing the opposition’s players to try and make a tackle.

Pass Into Feet – Reduces through ball’s for the players. This is good to use if you feel too many passes are been intercepted by the opposition or you feel too many passes are been misplaced. If you have slow players this is the type of passing you want rather than the pass into space one above.

Width

Play Wider – Instructs the players to play wider and to focus passing down both flanks. If the opposition are playing narrow it can be used to try and stretch them wider. Extremely useful if the midfield is cramped and you are outnumbered.

Play Narrower - You focus passing through the centre and decrease width. I find it best used when the opposition are outnumbered and leaving holes through the centre. It’s also useful if you want to pack the midfield and become more solid to get through.

Attacking

Run At Defence - Instructs all attacking players to run with the ball often. This does not include MC’s on attacking duty, only attacking midfielders. This is best used when the opposition allows your attacking players time on the ball .i.e. not closing you down. It can be a great shout to use if the opposition is standing off you. It can be equally effective if the oppositions defence are bad at tackling as well.

Play Through Defence – Tells the players to run with the ball rarely. This only works for attacking midfielders (AML/AMR too) and strikers. The rest of the players will still be as you’ve instructed them to play; this includes MC’s who have an attacking duty. This can be a great shout to use if you feel the opposition are defending well and winning the ball too much from your attacking players. So use this when you are struggling to break down the oppositions defence.

Shooting

Shoot On Sight – Increases the long shots for your team. Can be used against sides that are deemed to park the bus in front of the goal. Advisable to use if your attacking players have a good long shot attribute.

Work Ball Into Box – This tells players to use long shots rarely. This is useful if you think your players are shooting too often. Or if you find you want to keep possession and be more probing.

Wing Play

Hit Early Crosses – Tells fullback, wingbacks, wide midfielders and wingers to cross the ball early. It puts run with ball on rarely and cross from on mixed. This can be used against sides that play with a high defensive line. This can also be used if you have a fast striker who can break defences with his pace and acceleration.

Look For Overlap – Your fullbacks or wingbacks will be given a more attacking mentality, run from deep often, cross ball often and be asked to cross from byline. While your wingers will be given a more defensive mentality, run from deep rarely and hold up the ball. It’s great to use against defensive sides who don’t really pose an attacking threat. Can also be used against narrow formations that lack wide players.

Take A Breather - Decreases forward runs and tempo. You should use this is you don’t have players with good stamina or if condition is getting a bit low. It’s useful to use in games where you might have a few close games in succession. Can also be used to help maintain a good lead.

Possession

Retain Possession – Shortens passing length and slows the tempo down for your players. I use this shout a lot, it helps pass the ball around and not give possession away easily. Some people enjoy dominating possession as they believe if the opposition don’t have the ball they can’t score. Which is true but it’s also a good tool to use when you want to close a game out and hold onto the current result. Rather than go defensive and invite un-needed pressure I believe this to be a lot less risky and just as effective;

Get Ball Forward – Increases both passing length and tempo for the side. If you feel you are having a lot of possession but not really doing anything with it, then you’ll want to use this touchline shout. Also good to use this if you are chasing a game.

Pressing

Stand-Off Opponents – Changes marking to loose zonal, reduces closing down drastically and decreases tempo. When you play a technically superior side and don’t want players to get skinned you’d use this shout to ensure you keep your defensive shape and don’t allow gaps to appear which the opposition could exploit.

Hassle Opponents – Increases the tempo, tells the team to tight man mark and also increases the closing down for your side. Use this if you want to reduce space and time that you allow the opposition to have. Works good with a very attacking strategy and against teams who are a lot weaker than yours.

Midfield Distribution

Exploit The Flanks – It gives the fullback/wingbacks and wingers more attacking and focuses the play down both flanks. It also tells them to run from deep and cross the ball more often. If you use central midfielders then it’ll tell them to hold up the ball. You should use this if you find the middle over crowded or if you have good wide players who can cross.

Exploit The Middle – None defensive players will have their run from deep increased too often. Tells your team to focus their passing through the middle and any defenders and defensive midfielders will have their mentality changed to a more attacking one and be told to do through balls often. If you don’t use wide players then you should use this shout. It’s also great against teams who leave big gaping holes through the centre. I find it really effective against the 4231 (the CM one and not the DM) as the gap in the middle is huge.

I’m not sure how many of you are aware of this but there are actually two more shouts that can only be used when you use either contain or overload strategy. They are;

Play Even Safer - This shout is for the contain strategy only. It decreases all (except for strikers) run from deep and through balls to rarely. It also tells all the players except wingers to run with the ball rarely. You should use this if you don’t want your players to be adventurous and get pulled out of position. This is ideal for late in the game and protecting a lead.

Take More Risks – This shout if for the overload strategy only. Sets run from deep to often for all players on a support duty. Increases through balls to often and run with the ball for all players. Best used when you want to grab that equaliser or score that eluding goal at all costs.

Let’s have a look at some scenarios and talk about how I use a combination of shouts to work with my formations. Remember there is more combinations you can use but these are just the ones I make and use. So they will probably vary compared to what someone else uses.

You can make all these from the

‘shouts’

tab in the

‘Tactic’

overview screen.

Possession Shout’s

Winning Possession

We all have games where the opposition is having a lot of possession and you can’t get a hold of the ball. So if you face this scenario then the shouts I would use are;

Push higher up; get stuck in, Hassle opponents.

By pushing higher up you would be reducing the space available to the opposition in which they can pass around in. The get stuck in shout will help be more aggressive and can unsettle the calmness of the opposition players on the ball, in instructs them to tackle harder. And by using hassle opponents shout you’ll be changing to man marking and instructing players to closedown higher up

Retaining Possession

Some people enjoy dominating possession as they believe if the opposition don’t have the ball they can’t score. Which is true but it’s also a good tool to use when you want to close a game out and hold onto the current result. Rather than go defensive and invite un-needed pressure I believe this to be a lot less risky and just as effective;

Retain possession, pass to feet and drop deeper.

By using these shouts you’ll be asking the players to drop deeper and close down less. This will help retain the natural shape of the formation you use. Plus you’ll be using shorter passes and playing at a slower tempo while doing more through balls.

The above 2 shouts are what I end up using the most of from the various game’s I’ve got on the go.

Taking Advantage of Positional Weakness

The next shout might surprise a few of you as I’ve not seen many users post about this combination of shouts.

Sometimes we face formations that are vulnerable in the middle of the pitch. Yet our own formation might have good wingers and good central midfielders. So when I want to stretch the opponent I use these;

Exploit the middle and play wider.

This allows my players to play wider than normal but due to me normally outnumbering the opposition’s midfield it allows my central players more space on the ball. The opposition’s central players will also be stretched and this can create bit gaps to exploit. Obviously using this shout will depend on your own formation and how capable you are of actually playing through the middle. I like using this against 4231’s, 442’s and any other formation with just 2 central midfielders and no defensive midfielders.

You can also do the opposite and use;

Exploit the Flanks and play narrower.

I find this useful sometimes when the opposition out number me in the middle and I want to stay as compact as I can. Yet at the same time cause them problems down the wings. This is great to use against teams who don’t use wide players. I know this is a rare occurrence but sometimes you will face a team who don’t use wingers or wide attacking midfielders. This isn’t a shout I use often but I’ve used it a few times throughout the season.

Then we also have the normal approach many of you will no-doubt use at times.

Exploit the middle and play narrower.

I like using this combination if you yourself lack wide players and have a much stronger central midfield compared to the opposition. Plus if you don’t have wide players then all your play will be centrally, so makes sense to use this.

You might also find yourself;

Play wider and exploit the flanks.

This is useful for when you have stronger wide play than the opposition. Also useful if the opposition is all in the middle and you want to stretch them and don’t mind been wider in your own play.

Basically these are the only ones I really use often and it’s not a complete list, just a list of the shouts I happen to use currently.

[BeadyRoller]

Thanks ever so much Cleon, that's exactly what I needed, I actually properly know which each shout does now!

FuriousUK: I think a big problem is I have my tempo to slow, my players are dwelling to long on the ball and there seems to be no movement from my players off the ball which is worrying! Not creating much space, what do you suggest?

Thanks a lot.

[Smac]

FuriousUK: I think a big problem is I have my tempo to slow, my players are dwelling to long on the ball and there seems to be no movement from my players off the ball which is worrying! Not creating much space, what do you suggest?

That is a common thing to notice when a tactic and team isn't working well. When you stop noticing that you'll know you've made progress, however achieving flow and opportunities is nearly as complex as the rest of tactics put together.

One thing that I've kept in mind for a few years is that when players seem to hesitate then they are not seeing enough avenues for what they are hoping to do. For example, if you rigidly tell a player to only attack but never dribble then unless there is someone ahead of him and available, he'll be stuck. Likewise, in midfield, if your team gets too spread out or disjointed by odd combinations of player instructions and positions you'll see this too. Sometimes you can correct these things by simply changing the focus of attack (down the wings vs. through the middle), but more often, at least in my experience, you'll need to zero in on just which passing relationships are creating problems for you and correct both (sets of) players instructions. For example, bring your wingers back a bit or normalize your midfield mentalities.

Diagnosing and correcting these issues is complicated by the fact that your players' themselves can produce this effect if their morale is low, if their mental abilities are low, if the tactic is not yet familiar, or if the team isn't gelled sufficiently. Only when you've controlled as many of these other variables as possible can you draw your best conclusion about cause and hence make your most confident choice about a solution. If you do that, then simple trial and error can sometimes help you narrow down the issue and correct it.

Another approach is to design a balanced tactic, use the 'correct' shouts or tactical responses, and just take your lumps if they come. Personally I never have luck pre-balancing my tactics. At least not to my satisfaction. The bulk of the work isn't in theory but in trial and error.

[BeadyRoller]

Thanks very much for the reply Smac, appreciate it. My problem now seems to be leaking goals, I'm letting in a lot! How do you go about stopping this as I feel I have a good defence yet something is going wrong somewhere but I can't put my finger on it!

Cheers.

[5uare2]

If you're leaking goals, look at what type of goals you're leaking and the nature of the assists; are you getting beaten by fast strikers released by through balls or balls over the top? Are you conceding from crosses, or a lot of the assists coming from the flanks? Are they mostly shots from outside the area? Is it set pieces? Once you've identified the nature of the goals you're leaking, you'll be able to take steps to fix it.

[BeadyRoller]

Started a game with West Ham a couple nights a go, I'm 12th in the league with 10 games gone, it's awful. I've looked through the West Ham thread, everyone else seems to get promoted easily, I am doing basically the same as them, using the corrects shouts and that now yet it still doesn't work out? I'm starting to think this game hates me. I really don't know what to do anymore, I'd use someone else's tactic but I class that as cheating, it's not your own work so I wouldn't feel as if I'd accomplished anything if I got promoted.

[Sussex Hammer]

For the original question I think it all depends how you play the game. By that I mean how much you put into it like do you watch full games or just highlights etc. I for instance just use higlights so the TC with it's shouts are fairly pointless as I think you need to see what's going on to make them of use. I've always been a Classic man anyway as I enjoy starting from scratch and it's just my opinion the TC is someone elses work. I've had a nightmare though and spent 9 odd months as West Ham developing new tactics like 4-3-3's or 4-2-3-1's which started ok then fell apart !!! So I went back to basics and have re-done a basic 4-4-2, a counter attacking 4-4-2 and a 4-3-2-1 with 3 defensive midfielders for tough away games and to see games out and it's all come together with of course signing the right players!! Only lost 2 in something like 16 games so really enjoying it now. Of course come 2013 and my tactics won't work and it will be back to the drawing board until next June but that's FM and why we can't leave it alone!!!!

[Karnage94]

I use the TC. Not made a single classic tactic since the TC was introduced and I don't think that will change. I use the shouts to the best of my ability and watch matches on Full/Extended. I will make a tweak or a change and override an instruction or two. I might want the width narrower than what the TC provides or something like that, but rarely will I deviate much from what the TC provides so I can make the most of the shouts

[BeadyRoller]

So do you have to watch more than the highlights for the shouts to properly work? Cos I find watching every game in full would get a little tiresome, for me anyway.

[Karnage94]

So do you have to watch more than the highlights for the shouts to properly work? Cos I find watching every game in full would get a little tiresome, for me anyway.

No you don't have to watch the extended highlights or full match to use the shouts but it helps to see what is going on in the match to decide which shouts to use when.

[Shakes]

So do you have to watch more than the highlights for the shouts to properly work? Cos I find watching every game in full would get a little tiresome, for me anyway.

Watch in extended for a few games to get a feel is worthwhile, but you don't have to do that forever. I find key highlights plus looking at the stats are enough since I'm pretty familiar with my tactics, I know what can go wrong and how I can try to fix it.

[BeadyRoller]

Cheers lads, appreciate the replies. One last question, what shouts would you use if you were controlling the match and 2-0 up for example and say if you were winning 1-0 and it was really right, which shouts would you pick then?

Cheers.

[ham_aka_stam]

It's impossible to say without knowing your opponent, how they're playing, where they're most dangerous.

I change my tactics (effectively shouts, but I do them manually) based on what I see happening in front of me. If I'm 2-0 and I'm still dominating, why change? But if I'm pushing to high and they're hitting me on the break, I'll tell my FBs to stay back to sure the back line, and play a bit deeper. Plus I might increase my time wasting so that we don't rush towards goal and get a shot off as soon as possible. The other advantage with slowing your attacks down is you attack with more men in a safe way, because the opposition have to get more men back to cover them, if you're a better team then they'll get tired and you can start to punish them after 60mins as they fatigue.

[Tyballs]

TC gives you thousands of possibilities and combos fast.

Classic mode gives you billions of the same but takes time and requires thoughtfullness.

I choose the latter.

[Gee_Simpson]

I use the TC as it's more user friendly and less overwhelming.