Dribbles

[ramie]

Hey all,

I have a very talented players who is built to take on players, 20 dribbling, technique, pace etc and has the correct PPM. I have been struggling to get him dribbling. Anyone got some tips for me?

It mad because there are player ie my full back who gets more dribble than him!

Thanks

[jimbobBRFC]

Run with ball Often?

[Steve Odom]

Bravery and determination will be important for him to attempt it. A High Teamwork and Decisions copuld mean he will not dribble because it's not the best thing for him to attempt, especially if his creative freedom is high. If he doesn't reciave the ball enough, chances are he will not have the opportunitie rto dribble. there are many reasonzs why a player will not dribble as much as you'ld like him to. Give it some thought, perhaps you can find it put on your own.

[Cleon]

Just to add to the above. Make sure the player is in a position he can actually dribble from. It's no use him been stuck up front or anywhere else if he can't recieve the ball to run with to start with. You don't want an high mentality really.

[ramie]

His teamwork is very low in fact, its 5, so in theory he should be greedy. However, his decision is very high (18). This is his current set up:

[Tyballs]

The obvious faults I see is:

Very low mentality - he will not risk to fail.

No creative freedom - he will not try the tricks

RFD often - he is already inline with the defender when he recieves the ball.

I suggest - RFD rarely, mentality at least around 14, CF at least around 12.

I would add throughballs sometimes and crossing sometimes as he is great in making his own decisions.

[ramie]

The obvious faults I see is:

Very low mentality - he will not risk to fail.

No creative freedom - he will not try the tricks

RFD often - he is already inline with the defender when he recieves the ball.

I suggest - RFD rarely, mentality at least around 14, CF at least around 12.

I would add throughballs sometimes and crossing sometimes as he is great in making his own decisions.

Made them changes and I have had 18 runs in first games, 15 in second and 7 in third! I hope it continues

[Tyballs]

Made them changes and I have had 18 runs in first games, 15 in second and 7 in third! I hope it continues

Great...

He will soon be man-marked, so you might have to add, wideplay - run into chanels and roam from position. And maybee even RFD mixed.

[ramie]

Great...

He will soon be man-marked, so you might have to add, wideplay - run into chanels and roam from position. And maybee even RFD mixed.

Yh I might have to add them changes now, he was heavily man marked in last game, still managed 4 runs.. thanks mate

[Cleon]

Made them changes and I have had 18 runs in first games, 15 in second and 7 in third! I hope it continues

he made 18 dribbles in 1 game? Are you sure?

[ramie]

[Cleon]

Nice, what rating did he get for the game??

[ramie]

8.7 I think, apart from dribbling his not very good, he has poor finishing and composure. So I really just try to get him dribbling often, simply so I either get there player sent off or to get the other team committing 2 or 3 players to him, freeing up the others.

18 is rare and never happen before this. I think it was largely because they had a player sent off within 30mins, and there defence had no chance covering my front three.

[däkkä]

Bravery and determination will be important for him to attempt it. A High Teamwork and Decisions copuld mean he will not dribble because it's not the best thing for him to attempt, especially if his creative freedom is high. If he doesn't reciave the ball enough, chances are he will not have the opportunitie rto dribble. there are many reasonzs why a player will not dribble as much as you'ld like him to. Give it some thought, perhaps you can find it put on your own.

Disagree about bravery and determination. I don't think bravery has got anything to do with dribbling and determination is more of a 'general' skill. I think Flair is a lot more important for trying dribbles. In my current save my most active dribbler has bravery 3.

Flair 18, decisions 15, team work 12, Runs With Ball Often PPM, maxed CF.

[ramie]

what about closing down? will this have any effect on dribbling? i.e if I set the player to close down whole pitch

[lam]

If you set a player to closing down often, he will also often be near another player when you gain possession. This is why people often have only one striker closing down when they have two strikers.... th ey leave the other just bumbling around looking for space.

If you are playing a defensive game, then I'd use a higher closing down. If its an attacking game or you have seen a weakness that he can exploiting in a defensive game, then use less CD>

[ramie]

It is strange, the other player who no where near as good, dribbles a lot more! I think its is the AI marking him tight reduces his dribbles. I also think it might be his PMM he has far too many, it could be complicating his game. What you think?

[ramie]

I'm still struggling to get my player to really run with the ball, he keeps passing. How can I stop him passing?

[Tyballs]

Try

Ment=20, passing=1, every slider on rarely but the rwb on often. Let us know what happens.

[ramie]

that is pretty much my current set up. I was wonder what affect, if any, pressing and marking have on the player finding space to receive the ball?

[Cleon]

Try

Ment=20, passing=1, every slider on rarely but the rwb on often. Let us know what happens.

Giving him 20 for mentality can go against what you are trying to achieve. He could be too far up the pitch and not deep enough to run with the ball due to him been closer to the oppositions defence.

To make a player dribble you need to make sure he has the correct attributes and is in a good position to dribble from. You also have to make sure that he sees the ball often.

[ramie]

So if I lower his mentality to say 3/4 that would be more beneficial.

How do I get him to see the ball often? I have tried to focus passing down his flank, tried him as target man and even playmaker

[Cleon]

So if I lower his mentality to say 3/4 that would be more beneficial.

How do I get him to see the ball often? I have tried to focus passing down his flank, tried him as target man and even playmaker

Setting that low might be a bit extreme. Just set him 'normal' and see how it goes. Do you actually watch matches and see why he's not involved as much as you'd like him to be? It's the best way of finding out the issues.

As for getting him to see the ball more you have to make sure the fullbacks and midfield can get a pass to him.

[Tyballs]

My experience is that the formation sets the position and mentality the risk your player will take. If you want your player to constantly dribble then you want him to always take the risk to loose the ball, hence the highest mentality setting in my proposal and also of course limiting his other options. Then when you see what happens you can do adjustments so his role fits with his team mates so he doesn't behave stupid.

[Cleon]

My experience is that the formation sets the position and mentality the risk your player will take. If you want your player to constantly dribble then you want him to always take the risk to loose the ball, hence the highest mentality setting in my proposal and also of course limiting his other options. Then when you see what happens you can do adjustments so his role fits with his team mates so he doesn't behave stupid.

Mentality changes the start position of the player too. Having him too attacking can make him more isolated and harder to get the ball to him.

[Tyballs]

Mentality changes the start position of the player too. Having him too attacking can make him more isolated and harder to get the ball to him.

I disagree. The position set by the formation sets the starting position. Mentality and other settings and circumstances sets the average position. But that is my wiew and maybee not the truth.

[Cleon]

I disagree. The position set by the formation sets the starting position. Mentality and other settings and circumstances sets the average position. But that is my wiew and maybee not the truth.

Mentality

Mentality directly affects a player’s position on the field. His set position on the tactical pitch display is where he will line up as a base default, but depending on the mentality set he may be more restrained or cavalier in his approach. The slider ranges from Ultra Defensive to All Out Attacking. The further right the slider is set, the more aggressive your players will play positionally and more ambitious they may be when passing the ball (a more aggressive mentality will result in more forward passes).

[bullybeef]

There is some great advice here, very helpful indeed. Thanks!

[7Bestie7]

I disagree. The position set by the formation sets the starting position. Mentality and other settings and circumstances sets the average position. But that is my wiew and maybee not the truth.

Imagine the position on the tactics screen telling a player that they need to start in X position on the pitch +/- a number of feet/yards where the mentally you give a player affects the +/- positional change.

[Tyballs]

Mentality

Mentality directly affects a player’s position on the field. His set position on the tactical pitch display is where he will line up as a base default, but depending on the mentality set he may be more restrained or cavalier in his approach. The slider ranges from Ultra Defensive to All Out Attacking. The further right the slider is set, the more aggressive your players will play positionally and more ambitious they may be when passing the ball (a more aggressive mentality will result in more forward passes).

OK, this doesn't exactly rule out my theory. Let's disect the text from the manual.

Mentality directly affects a player’s position on the field. - It doesn't say starting position or average position. I go for the average position because of the first part of the next sentense.

His set position on the tactical pitch display - His position in the formation (DC, DR, DMC, AMR, ST) is where he will line up as a base default - His starting position.

but depending on the mentality set he may be more restrained or cavalier in his approach - The higher mentality the more risk he will take, in closing down, in his movement, in his dribbling attempts, in his passing, when tackling and so on. Because of that he will have an average position that is higher up the pitch which I think is emphasised in the last two sentenses. The slider ranges from Ultra Defensive to All Out Attacking. The further right the slider is set, the more aggressive your players will play positionally and more ambitious they may be when passing the ball (a more aggressive mentality will result in more forward passes).

[Cleon]

Edit - NVM can't be bothered to go around in circles and explain this again. Do a search and you'll see mentality as been covered loads. It does affect start position regardless of what you think. You can see this is game if you mess around and look. The other stuff you mention is irrelevant as you said it didn't affect start position which is what I was discussing with you not the other stuff. We're well aware of what else it plays a role in.

But it's okay believe what you want.

[lam]

I find other stats to be just as important such as balance.

I have two players that are very similar.... Modric and Krancjar, when it comes to dribbling. KRanc is ALWAYS having a go. I've posted before about why he does it so much more than Modric, but we couldnt ascertain an answer. The only obvious thing was that he had a higher balance attribute..... and boy, you should see him weave in and out of players.....

That said, my players with the hightest dribbles figures tend to be the ones that cut inside often.... ie my AML and AMR.

Your WB's will have decent figures as they are liekly to be setting off from deep where they have no markers. So I wouldnt really use those as a comparison.

[Cleon]

I find other stats to be just as important such as balance.

I have two players that are very similar.... Modric and Krancjar, when it comes to dribbling. KRanc is ALWAYS having a go. I've posted before about why he does it so much more than Modric, but we couldnt ascertain an answer. The only obvious thing was that he had a higher balance attribute..... and boy, you should see him weave in and out of players.....

That said, my players with the hightest dribbles figures tend to be the ones that cut inside often.... ie my AML and AMR.

Your WB's will have decent figures as they are liekly to be setting off from deep where they have no markers. So I wouldnt really use those as a comparison.

Balance and agility are vital for dribbling especially if dribbling past people or tries to turn and shield the ball from the defender.

[ramie]

First off thanks for the replies, all really helpful. Mentality is a debatable topic and Tyball has some good logic behind his answer,, I have maxed out my players mentality and he does seem to be taking more risks in his dribbling, passing and shooting which is great! However, he does play higher up the field now and getting offside which I don’t mind as I’m thinking of teaching him beats offside trap.

That aside, Mentality may not be the real reason for his improvement in dribbling. I have created a tactic around him, SS below. I was playing him AMR on a previous tactic and he wasn’t doing anything, did some digging and many users have stated that the ME favours the left side. So I created a new tactic with him on the left. As you can see the tactic is a bit heavy on the right side, which I believe has created room for my player on the left to cut inside and fly past players.

Another theory is creative freedom. I’m testing whether it has an effect or not on dribbling. So far I am getting very similar results with CF maxed and when he has no CF, so not clear if that has any effect. What are your views on CF?

[jimbobBRFC]

The more CF they have the less they will follow your specific instructions, thats how Ive always viewed it. Messi IRL has lots of CF as he pretty much does what he wants. Whereas someone like Shawcross for Stoke is very regimented in his style of play and plays exactly how he is told. Not that Messi doesnt follow Pep's insturctions, just he does it how he wants.

[Cleon]

First off thanks for the replies, all really helpful. Mentality is a debatable topic and Tyball has some good logic behind his answer,, I have maxed out my players mentality and he does seem to be taking more risks in his dribbling, passing and shooting which is great! However, he does play higher up the field now and getting offside which I don’t mind as I’m thinking of teaching him beats offside trap.

That aside, Mentality may not be the real reason for his improvement in dribbling. I have created a tactic around him, SS below. I was playing him AMR on a previous tactic and he wasn’t doing anything, did some digging and many users have stated that the ME favours the left side. So I created a new tactic with him on the left. As you can see the tactic is a bit heavy on the right side, which I believe has created room for my player on the left to cut inside and fly past players.

Another theory is creative freedom. I’m testing whether it has an effect or not on dribbling. So far I am getting very similar results with CF maxed and when he has no CF, so not clear if that has any effect. What are your views on CF?

Mentality does all the things Tyball mentioned but it also impacts the start position of the player to begin with (the average position is took from with and without the ball).

Creating a tactic around him is very useful and something I did with Neymar, funnily enough a formation quite simliar to yours. The reason it works so well is the DLF drops deep and at times takes the defender marking him with him. This allows your AML to run into the space created. If player's don't create space then there is no space to run into to begin with.

[Tyballs]

The more CF they have the less they will follow your specific instructions, thats how Ive always viewed it. Messi IRL has lots of CF as he pretty much does what he wants. Whereas someone like Shawcross for Stoke is very regimented in his style of play and plays exactly how he is told. Not that Messi doesnt follow Pep's insturctions, just he does it how he wants.

For me Creative Freedom adjusts the level of technical difficulty you want your player play with. For instance, if you want your player to pass with the inside of his foot all the time, set his CF low. If you want him to use back heel passes, outside foot passing, bicycleta passing, then set his CF high. That way you have to think about his technical ability before setting the CF level. But again this is just my theory.

[jimbobBRFC]

For me Creative Freedom adjusts the level of technical difficulty you want your player play with. For instance, if you want your player to pass with the inside of his foot all the time, set his CF low. If you want him to use back heel passes, outside foot passing, bicycleta passing, then set his CF high. That way you have to think about his technical ability before setting the CF level. But again this is just my theory.

Aye thats a good thought. Maybe a little bit of both? The freedom bit is what made me think it is how much opportunity they are given to do their own thing, but the creative part then your theory would make sense.

[ramie]

I think flair plays a big part in the player trying the fancy stuff ie back heels etc. Maybe cf allows hims to create the space to express himself whilst flair let's him try the fancy stuff.

[jimbobBRFC]

I think flair plays a big part in the player trying the fancy stuff ie back heels etc. Maybe cf allows hims to create the space to express himself whilst flair let's him try the fancy stuff.

What He said :D

[Cleon]

I think flair plays a big part in the player trying the fancy stuff ie back heels etc. Maybe cf allows hims to create the space to express himself whilst flair let's him try the fancy stuff.

CF as nothing to do with space at all. CF is what's used when a player has the ball. To create space he'd need to 'roam from position'.

But you are right about the flair part

CF allows the player to express himself and ignore your tactic instructions at certain periods. When and how frequet this happens depends on the players decisions mainly as he'll use what he thinks is best and judge the situation for himself.

[ramie]

Also I have found that in certain leagues its a lot easier to get more dribbles. The Spainish league is very easy where as the English league is more difficult. So I think the culture of the leagues effect how effective the player is a finding space. Also, regardless of league or comp, when I play the bigger teams the player seems to run more, whether that is them playing more openly allowing him space or that the player thrives on the bigger stage

[jimbobBRFC]

CF as nothing to do with space at all. CF is what's used when a player has the ball. To create space he'd need to 'roam from position'.

But you are right about the flair part

CF allows the player to express himself and ignore your tactic instructions at certain periods. When and how frequet this happens depends on the players decisions mainly as he'll use what he thinks is best and judge the situation for himself.

So what I said then I have knowledge about the game wooooooo proud of myself now haha.

I usually go off the rule that the lower down the leagues you get the less CF you should really give because they will not have as good decisions, creativity. I think decisions is the main attribute that determines how much CF you should give a player. Hence my example of Messi and Shawcross, its a no brainer who you would give the most CF too

[Cleon]

Creative freedom is a flair boost. It allows the player to stray from his tactical settings and allows him to express himself and do the more ambitious things. It doesn't mean it's bad for a defender though.

For example a striker through on goal and with a lot of creative freedom might try and chip the keeper or go around him. So basically he has a variety of things he can try rather than the 'normal' type of shots he does when following the normal tactical plan. It's not always a good thing either if he's trying to always be ambitious.

For a defender it works in a simliar way. A defender with high CF but with a short passing game and no throughballs but alright creativity attribute might still attampt the odd throughball, direct pass or long ball.

Ultimatley it's a players attributes what determine how he acts but you get the gist.

[bullybeef]

I have been playing around with CF on my CBs after reading this thread. Usually I set it to 0, but during my recent pre-season friendlies, I have had it set on 6. I haven't noticed anything untoward, but I haven't noticed anything position either.

However, in my first competitive game of the season (funny how players start to do the wrong things when it is a competitive game), my defenders have been holding a very high line, when I instruct them to defend deep, and close down deep. The line was so high, I was lucky not to concede due to it. So, after replacing CBs CF setting to zero, their line returned to a more preferred position.

So the obvious question is, does CF also instruct players to have a higher starting position on the pitch?

Personally, I believe having many varying tactical connotations to a game gives rise to many possible options, I am finding these infinite instructions are making things very complicated. And some instructions seem to always be attempted (like players will run with the ball when it is toggled to 'often') and others rarely attempt through balls or long shots even though you have clicked 'often'..

It's like why would you have a option to 'run onto ball' for your TM, when you have instructed your MFs to play through balls often? It's a bit like over egging the pudding. Surely a manager's tactical instructions aren't this pedantic and overwhelming IRL. The players would be mind-boggled with everything they have to remember.

And the dribbling discussion doesn't seemed to have increased the amount of runs my most creative players attempt, but I guess I have probably issued another instruction which is confusing them. Why can't we have either/or tactical instructions, rather than umpteen choices, that most of the time conflict with one another. Surely the tactical creator could advise you that certain instructions are clashing with others, which is why they're not effective. Or if you use one, it removes the option to use another if it is conflicting.

Too many cooks are spoiling my broth!

[Cleon]

So the obvious question is, does CF also instruct players to have a higher starting position on the pitch?

Nope only d-line and mentality would do that.

[bullybeef]

Thanks Cleon, I was actually going to pm you I was that worried about it. Well whatever occurred, replacing my CBs CF setting back to 0 'seemed' to stop them squeezing up the pitch. I'll look at it as maybe more a superstitious meaning for me now.

What are your views of the many varying tactical options, Cleon? When I could run, and I played football often, I'd be baffled if a manager give me so many instructions. I am actually going to try removing most of the individual instructions to rarely to see if they make better decisions during a game.

[Cleon]

Thanks Cleon, I was actually going to pm you I was that worried about it. Well whatever occurred, replacing my CBs CF setting back to 0 'seemed' to stop them squeezing up the pitch. I'll look at it as maybe more a superstitious meaning for me now.

What are your views of the many varying tactical options, Cleon? When I could run, and I played football often, I'd be baffled if a manager give me so many instructions. I am actually going to try removing most of the individual instructions to rarely to see if they make better decisions during a game.

Well if you compare to real life then it will get confusing and seem complicated. But in terms of a game we have to be able to instruct the player to do certain things hence all the instructions.

The thing about instructions is keep them simple, that's what I do and just use the shouts to alter things.

[ramie]

Sorry to keep bring this thread back to life, but what affect does RFD have? I have been playing about with it, setting it to often, and nothing has really changed.

My understanding of Runs From Deep is to do while the team is in posession but the player is without the ball:

Rarely: Will hold back from his opponent and present as an option for a short (or long) pass

Often: Will time his run and try and push forward/run past his opponent to present as an option for through/direct balls

Also the manual eludes to if the player has the ball it is effected:

Often: To try and dribble and run past their player

Rarely: To try and pass around their opponent to an appropriate player

Runs From Deep, in my opinion at least, should be set to often on players who are quick and are trying to be fed balls from a playmaker or target man, and rarely if you want them to play a simpler passing game, or for a playmaker in conjunction with high creativity and through balls.

Please anyone interupt me if this is an incorrect summary, i did not write the ME so this could be complete rabble.

[Karnage94]

Sorry to keep bring this thread back to life, but what affect does RFD have? I have been playing about with it, setting it to often, and nothing has really changed.

RFD on often will mean that the player is more likely to try run past the defensive line looking for a through ball. On rarely he will look to pick the ball up from deep more and then run with the ball or pass the ball on, and with mixed he will make the decision based on PPM's and what he feels he should do