Press Conferences - Another sad effort from SI

[ben136]

I've never understood the logic that, "well we all hate press conferences, but they exist in real life, so we are compelled to slog through them in a game." What? It's not a fun feature for most people, it doesnt increase immerssion due to poor implementation, but it can have huge affects on your team's performance. It ends up forcing you to engage in a feature that just isn't fun. Either just get rid of it, or give the option to turn it off when creating a new game. I don't see why I should be forced to deal with it in a game.

[wwfan]

There are some absolutely fantastic suggestions in the OP. However, the language it has been wrapped in is just ridiculous. You don't need to insult the developers when you are making such good points. Defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. If you tried to invest in a civilised debate, then this thread could become something quite special.

[Guest aaron70]

Sensitive souls here if the OP was considered overly offensive. At times being blunt is necessary, especially when the problem keeps getting ignored.

Post #34 by TSH really does outline how the system should work and the idea by looknohands (post #42) is excellent.

These two posts really show SI how to improve the game.

Great thread and I hope SI take note!!

[Pete S]

Why can't press and media interaction be set as options when you start a game. Those that like them can use them and those that don't can play the game without them. I don't see how this would be that hard to do either. This was everyone wopuld be happy.

[ommerson]

I have to agree with the starter of the thread that the press-conference havent been improved much. It was repetitive and boring, and to be honest it still is. I'd like to let my assistant handle them, but I fear it will break my rep or influence the players in a negative way, so I work through them every time.

I like the points he makes on questions that one would expect in a press conference. Like the one about his wingback that he plays a a winger and such.

Furthermore the use of some of the questions dont make much sense to me. Are there really so many managers that don't like each other in real life so that in practically every press conference I have to be asked if it wouldn't be nice to "get one over manager X"? I always answer "I couldn't care less who the opposition manager is", and that is the truth. And what is my opinion on some opponents manager? How the hell should I know, I don't know the AI-bugger do I? And would I care if it was a damn bastard or the ideal son-in-law? No, I don't care, and I guess not many human managers do. I always reply the lame: "He's one of the nice guys in football" as I always try to see the good in people. ;-)

I don't have a clue how my answers influence the morale of my players, but what can I do about it? What happens if I let my assistant handle them? I did once, but it turned out the answers he gave made no sense at all. He would state that some back up youth player was the ideal man to mark the oppositions dangerous striker, such things. But maybe my assistant isnt that good, I'm in lower league..

[grade]

Why can't press and media interaction be set as options when you start a game. Those that like them can use them and those that don't can play the game without them. I don't see how this would be that hard to do either. This was everyone wopuld be happy.

I would for example rather have more media interaction of one question before the match for the majority of matches and have Press Conferences been restricted to only to derbys and big matches. To be dynamic, the game would check by reputation the clubs with high reputation and those matches agsint those clubs would be done by Press Conferences. (Example: I'm coaching West Ham and should be for example Press Conferences on matches against Man United, Arsenal, liverpool and Chelsea. If I coach Man United, Press conference worked for Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, while the other has media interaction with one question like before. if the reputation of Newcastle goes up to be one of biggest match against them would be done by Press Conferences, and if Chelsea reputation goes down not be one of biggest, it goes to one question). Note: But keep about 4 to 5 clubs that is done the Press Conferences.

Also since restricting Press Conferences to handfull of matches, I would implement resume of press conferences of clubs(AI) that would face those teams in the inbox. That way players sees that the AI uses Press Conferences and also would make me at least made this feature a lot less repetitive and I would certainly use it. Also put some questions in Press Conferences to comment on some of replies the AI manager did in his Press Conferences.

what do you think of this suggestion?

[Biscotti]

There are some absolutely fantastic suggestions in the OP. However, the language it has been wrapped in is just ridiculous. You don't need to insult the developers when you are making such good points. Defeats the whole purpose of the exercise. If you tried to invest in a civilised debate, then this thread could become something quite special.

If you only read the OP then you've actually missed out on a pretty interesting and constructive discussion. Quite a lot of interesting ideas which, while we don't know how technically viable they are, might well be ways to make the whole system work better.

[wwfan]

If you only read the OP then you've actually missed out on a pretty interesting and constructive discussion. Quite a lot of interesting ideas which, while we don't know how technically viable they are, might well be ways to make the whole system work better.

I read it all. I'm just disappointed in the OP's couching of the ideas. No need to be so aggressive. Fortunately, he's initiated a good conversation. I just don't think the uncivil tones were warranted.

For what it is worth, I think FM is too modular and there is not enough talking between modules. Match preparation and the Tactics Creator work off slightly different logics, the press conference logic doesn't seem to interact at all with tactical logic, the AssMan advice only interacts with player quality and not tactical logic, bar a little legacy stuff. Some tighter integration between things could work wonders.

[TSH]

I read it all. I'm just disappointed in the OP's couching of the ideas. No need to be so aggressive. Fortunately, he's initiated a good conversation. I just don't think the uncivil tones were warranted.

For what it is worth, I think FM is too modular and there is not enough talking between modules. Match preparation and the Tactics Creator work off slightly different logics, the press conference logic doesn't seem to interact at all with tactical logic, the AssMan advice only interacts with player quality and not tactical logic, bar a little legacy stuff. Some tighter integration between things could work wonders.

As I have said, I'm frustrated that such a feature has not been fixed/improved for more than 4 years. I did what any normal customer should do after being ignored by a company for 4 years for a defective feature in one of its products. Actually, I did a lot less.

I am not an illogical person though or just a moaner. I like a good conversation and I feel it's always the proper way to get something done.

There is a point though when just talking about something does not get anything done.

[playmaker]

For me there are three issues with the press conferences:

1. The lack of focus on the match. If every match is unique then every press conference can be too. More often than not I have plenty of points to make, but never get asked the questions I am burning to answer.

2. The lack of focus on turning points or deciding factors in the match. There is a nod towards possession, but it assumes that the balance of possession remained the same through out. What happens if you were rubbish first half, but totally dominant second half? Right now, exactly the same as if you started well but went off the boil. Did a goal force a tactical rethink? Did a goal come after a substitution? Did an injury have an effect on the final score? Yes, it takes time to add each question, but keep doing it for two or three years and it will all add up.

3. The limitation of the positive to negative scale of answers. This makes the wording of answers irrelevant and makes the feature less organic and more mechanical. It also forces the creation of illogical answers where perhaps a negative answer makes no sense. Adding 5-10 different answer types would mix things up and including only relevant answer types would make answers feel more natural and less 'gamey'.

[x42bn6]

How would you do it differently if you could? I don't think competition has anything to do with it - and you say 'isn't 4 years enough', we only have so many coders which can work on so many things. It's not like we have half a dozen people working solely on press conferences, we just don't have that kind of man power. We put in the best idea we had in regards to press conferences - it's not an easy concept to envisage in a computer game. I'm certainly not trying to make excuses, I just hope you can see it from our perspective.

Model each reporter as a human being, having characteristics like patience, level of persistence, agenda, favourite club and so on. Create objectives for each reporter - for example, some seedy tabloid might have objectives that want to dig out all the dirt on some player that is in the news, while the local reporter next to him might be satisfied with basic answers to lots of questions (rather than complicated answer to 1-2 questions), while another reporter might be interested in whether the youth player that was promoted to the first-team for training will be playing for the first-team any time soon, while another might just be humourous and ask lots of weird questions. Some reporters might have limited control over the mother tongue of the club, and hence when you see the news report come out, it might end up being lost-in-translation. Give the ability to ignore reporters (or more likely, click a reporter to answer him - and some reporters might get annoyed if they are very vocal and you keep ignoring them). Increase the number of questions exponentially, or produce a smarter way to produce sentences using a model of the English language and a database, rather than lots of hard-coded phrases.

[Martyr1777]

Model each reporter as a human being, having characteristics like patience, level of persistence, agenda, favourite club and so on. Create objectives for each reporter - for example, some seedy tabloid might have objectives that want to dig out all the dirt on some player that is in the news, while the local reporter next to him might be satisfied with basic answers to lots of questions (rather than complicated answer to 1-2 questions), while another reporter might be interested in whether the youth player that was promoted to the first-team for training will be playing for the first-team any time soon, while another might just be humourous and ask lots of weird questions. Some reporters might have limited control over the mother tongue of the club, and hence when you see the news report come out, it might end up being lost-in-translation. Give the ability to ignore reporters (or more likely, click a reporter to answer him - and some reporters might get annoyed if they are very vocal and you keep ignoring them). Increase the number of questions exponentially, or produce a smarter way to produce sentences using a model of the English language and a database, rather than lots of hard-coded phrases.

Like Brock said earlier... it's not Press conference manager its Football Manager. The amount of work it would take to do what you suggest would be huge, and you should know that. But even then it's likely to still not be very realistic at all, the number of questions and answers would have to be MASSIVE not the mention the structure to ask them properly.

There is no good way to do press conferences except to limit their impact so we can just have the asst man take them without having to worry about him wrecking the team, an on-off option for new games, or at the very least limiting them to big matches like playoffs.

Granted Brock did ask what others would do, but if they really put that much work into press conferences instead of things like the ME then everyone that doesn't like press conferences to begin with would be pretty ticked.

[x42bn6]

Like Brock said earlier... it's not Press conference manager its Football Manager. The amount of work it would take to do what you suggest would be huge, and you should know that. But even then it's likely to still not be very realistic at all, the number of questions and answers would have to be MASSIVE not the mention the structure to ask them properly.

Neil Brock wanted ideas, and I gave him ideas.

Let SI decide what is "massive" enough for them to consider.

There is no good way to do press conferences except to limit their impact so we can just have the asst man take them without having to worry about him wrecking the team, an on-off option for new games, or at the very least limiting them to big matches like playoffs.

Says you... Less-frequent press-conferences that are fun are a good thing. But you need to make them fun - hence the ideas.

Granted Brock did ask what others would do, but if they really put that much work into press conferences instead of things like the ME then everyone that doesn't like press conferences to begin with would be pretty ticked.

Let SI decide what is important.

I personally wouldn't mind if they took some time out to work on press conferences. The ME is pretty good already, and the amount of effort put in will result in diminishing returns - you can get more for less by working on things like press conferences and agents.

I don't think press conferences are that good and haven't been very good for a while, and if they are improved, then brilliant.

[grade]

For me either the idea i presented above or the option to turn it off, I will be happy with one of them.

[MancTiger]

Like Brock said earlier... it's not Press conference manager its Football Manager. .

Its not Football Agent Manager either but a lot of what x42bn6 suggested has been implemented for agents so why not hacks??

The press can make or break a manager IRL (I recall one guy turning down the England job due to our press IIRC) so a lot more depth would be welcome and I like a lot of his ideas

[Martyr1777]

Let SI decide what is important.

I personally wouldn't mind if they took some time out to work on press conferences. The ME is pretty good already, and the amount of effort put in will result in diminishing returns - you can get more for less by working on things like press conferences and agents.

I don't think press conferences are that good and haven't been very good for a while, and if they are improved, then brilliant.

SI actually like to hear what their customers think is important that's why they are so active on the forums compared to other devs, so my opinion of what is important is just a valid as yours.

Ok lets forget the ME, lets compare interaction systems... Team talks and player interaction are much bigger pieces of the pie then press conferences. Put the time and effort into those first because you can create a bigger impact on the game with the same amount of work. The one thing I agree with you on is that press conferences are poor, they do need work but to make them entertaining at all would be too much work. Where as just be adding a small amount of extra depth to team talks that area will increase exponentially simply by having 8-10 options instead of 5-6. Or work on taking the randomness out of player interactions so player personalities actually play a larger role, or ever increase the depth of player personalities.

Those would have a far larger impact with less work and are in the same category. Believe me, if I thought there was a reasonable way to make the press conferences more interesting I'd go for it, because they are just a waste of time right now. But I don't think there is a way to make them any better that is within SI's ability (such as creating a true AI).

Edit:

Its not Football Agent Manager either but a lot of what x42bn6 suggested has been implemented for agents so why not hacks??

The press can make or break a manager IRL (I recall one guy turning down the England job due to our press IIRC) so a lot more depth would be welcome and I like a lot of his ideas

What do you mean? Agents are just 3 extra attributes and 1 more fee tacked onto contract negotiations. What x42 is asking for is far more, at the very least is far more questions and answers which doesn't seem like much, but then you need all the code for when those questions apply and all the code for the affect the answers have.

I agree the press is an important part of managing, but there is a difference between it being important and being able to code IRL into a game. Again, if they could get a reasonable job of it done great. But I doubt they can with the resources they have... hell it's probably only 1-2 guys that even work on press conferences and even then in rotation of other tasks I'm sure.

[x42bn6]

SI actually like to hear what their customers think is important that's why they are so active on the forums compared to other devs, so my opinion of what is important is just a valid as yours.

True, and I think yours is valid, but the reasoning is flawed - if "it's difficult" were a valid reason to not do something, we wouldn't have had 2D matches in the dark days, 3D matches today, or DLR now.

Ok lets forget the ME, lets compare interaction systems... Team talks and player interaction are much bigger pieces of the pie then press conferences. Put the time and effort into those first because you can create a bigger impact on the game with the same amount of work. The one thing I agree with you on is that press conferences are poor, they do need work but to make them entertaining at all would be too much work. Where as just be adding a small amount of extra depth to team talks that area will increase exponentially simply by having 8-10 options instead of 5-6. Or work on taking the randomness out of player interactions so player personalities actually play a larger role, or ever increase the depth of player personalities.

That's a separate thread.

And I would argue SI should expand both system.

And that they should decide what to develop first - or even together.

Those would have a far larger impact with less work and are in the same category. Believe me, if I thought there was a reasonable way to make the press conferences more interesting I'd go for it, because they are just a waste of time right now. But I don't think there is a way to make them any better that is within SI's ability (such as creating a true AI).

If we don't give them big ideas, they may never will.

Edit:

What do you mean? Agents are just 3 extra attributes and 1 more fee tacked onto contract negotiations. What x42 is asking for is far more, at the very least is far more questions and answers which doesn't seem like much, but then you need all the code for when those questions apply and all the code for the affect the answers have.

I agree the press is an important part of managing, but there is a difference between it being important and being able to code IRL into a game. Again, if they could get a reasonable job of it done great. But I doubt they can with the resources they have... hell it's probably only 1-2 guys that even work on press conferences and even then in rotation of other tasks I'm sure.

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions...

Let SI worry about actually developing the game.

SI's aim is to satisfy customers. Therefore I have absolutely no issue with suggesting big things.

I know SI won't do everything I ask, but I would hope that some of my ideas end up in the game in the future. I know SI can easily do things like "add more questions" - but as a consumer, why stop there? We want a press conferences system that is not tedious, fun and effective. That's an overhaul, not shifting the goalposts around.

If you don't think it's a reasonable request, go ahead and say why... SI developed a 3D match-engine and dynamic-league reputation. They've built a good game that sells well. If anything, I think they are a good software company and if anything, the more big ideas, the better.

[Martyr1777]

True, and I think yours is valid, but the reasoning is flawed - if "it's difficult" were a valid reason to not do something, we wouldn't have had 2D matches in the dark days, 3D matches today, or DLR now.

Since I'm not interested in getting into another long winded discussion with you on this new topic I'm just telling you why your reasoning is flawed...

It has nothing to do with 'not doing something because it's hard'. It has everything to do with 'not doing something that is far more difficult then other things that need to be done and can be done for -LESS- effort'. It's called proper time management. If you have many things to do, don't spend the most effort on the least important aspect. Press conferences are less important then team talks and player interaction and that's just the interaction systems, there are numerous other systems that need the work.

So if SI had everything in the game perfect they can spend all the time they want designing a true AI to make good press conferences, but that's obviously not the case.

[x42bn6]

Since I'm not interested in getting into another long winded discussion with you on this new topic I'm just telling you why your reasoning is flawed...

It has nothing to do with 'not doing something because it's hard'. It has everything to do with 'not doing something that is far more difficult then other things that need to be done and can be done for -LESS- effort'. It's called proper time management. If you have many things to do, don't spend the most effort on the least important aspect. Press conferences are less important then team talks and player interaction and that's just the interaction systems, there are numerous other systems that need the work.

There's a difference between saying "I have an idea, it's XYZ, what do you think?" and "I think that you should do XYZ at the expense of ABC."

I quite frankly don't know how SI will prioritise press conference improvement against, say, the match-engine, but if we don't bring up ideas, they have little to go on from!

If XYZ has a flaw, or can be improved, I'm going to point it out. Where it goes on SI's to-do list is none of my business. It is disingenuous to use this against me because I haven't said that SI should put this at the top of their agenda. I haven't even mentioned it in my original idea. I was just getting ideas out.

So if SI had everything in the game perfect they can spend all the time they want designing a true AI to make good press conferences, but that's obviously not the case.

Not true. Bugs and issues are not prioritised on a pure "importance" basis, otherwise minor issues never get looked at. It is more than likely that SI will improve a little bit of everything and perhaps introduce a new feature or two, simply because of how projects end up getting split-up. It isn't possible to get one aspect perfect anyway - a perfect system would be a perfect imitation of life.

You are basically saying, "But it will be too difficult for SI, and I'd rather they focussed on other things." In that case, you may as well say the same in all threads that aren't related to the match-engine, which is the most important aspect of the game. You won't be impressing anyone any time soon with that attitude - the reason being is that customers don't care how the product is built - as long as the product has features X, Y and Z and these features are nice, well-built ones. Customers want an improved match-engine, an improved agent module, an improved interaction module and an improved press conference module. Unreasonable? Too bad - this is what the customer wants - welcome to the world of software development.