Fundamental Football Manager (FFM) - Basics of Tactic Making

[towerofpower]

My tactic is getting good shape thanks for some defensive tips on this topic. I'm very happy with the results! I'm doing great in championship with MK Dons at the moment, and I really have pretty poor squad even on championship standards.

Just drew with chelsea AWAY on FA Cup 4th round, and they were lucky to get draw. My own fault I lost my 4-1 lead, I just sorta forgot change my marking instructions when they went 4-2-4

Result:

GUTTED, and in next screen you see it was no fluke:

Player stats. I'm very happy with my tall target man, he dominates the air as I set him receive everything on head and some defences are unable to cope with him. Look at the headers and shots on goal:

It's just very narrow diamond with counter attacking, hard working midfield and a lot weight on my target men back.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by towerofpower:

Sucks I can't edit my posts.

I also wanted to add, your instruction for anchorman is great Korzy. I use mine similar too, but I changed it to direct like you and he seems to create scoring opportunities more My DMF is Nengomashe, who has amazing hardworking attributes especially for championship, but also he's amazing passer.

Just to add a random question: how do you guys feel about setting hardworking DMF as playmaker? He also has "dictates tempo" on his prefered moves, I haven't tried him as playmaker yet because he's got heavy duties on defence ( barrow from DMF --> DC position, because I just am underdog still ). Would it be disasterous? Though he sees ball plenty already because my defenders and fullbacks play it through him.

Also if opponent has an exceptional striker or midfielder, I assign him to manmark him and hard tackle. Everything I can to make their game miserable and wish they weren't on field and has worked good. Sure it might open more space to their other players, but these amazing players can cause a lot more trouble for me unless I try to leash them.

Great topic, I have learned a lot here about tactics. Most importantly this has made me from absolute clueless to someone who has more clue what whatever slider does, instead of keeping guessing and now I've been comfortable making my own formations. Thank you and keep it up! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes you can, actually if you notice, he becomes a playmaker automatically if he's good. I prefer giving him the instructions. There is one concern though, I find that Hold up Ball isn't a good instruction for DMs anymore, what do you lot think?

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kelvin1234:

my both CMs to attack (i have set mentality to 13) and DM to stay back.. how do i play one-touch football in the midfields?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Short passing of between 1-4, 1 behind the hardest to pull off and that may require a normal formation. The players also need forward runs

[yonko]

I agree Rashidi about the Hold up Ball....actually I never liked it...I want flowing style where the ball is always moving forward or sideways. I like to "rush slowly"

[yonko]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rune_star:

Yonko

I guess we're playing it pretty much the same way. My wingers haven't got crossing on either, trying to replicate til IRL Barca. As for the midfielders, thats pretty much what I'm doing. One link-up, one supporting. Works a treat! Without FWR for either of the mid-three... Plus my sole-striker is on pretty low mentality to come deep every once... Almost swaps position with the 'looney' midfielder... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I had no crossing until I sold Ronaldinho and replaced him with Cristiano Ronaldo!!! Now one winger has mixed crosses to far post. I also just got Fabregas so my midfield set-up might change once again.....will see. I'm thinking about for home games to put Iniesta, Xavi and Cesc together with everything on mixed. The DM (Iniesta) will have lower mentality, while Fabregas will have FWR on often. Sick!!!! My Dream Team! I just need to set them up....

Rashidi what do you think if you had this three midfielders? How would you set them up? I also have Yaya Toure, Zapater and Deco....

[Rashidi]

I don't know their attributes so a bit tough that question

[yonko]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

I don't know their attributes so a bit tough that question </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Think of them as in the start of the game.I think all three are very well balanced central mids - as of now (Sept. 2008) 15+ for first touch, passing, anticipation, creativity, decisions, off the ball and positioning. Tackling is 13-14 though...hard training for defending should see some improvement there. Sorry can't post screenshots

[Rashidi]

OK if you're looking at having 3 central midfielders with the central one making most of the foraging runs, then put the player with the most flair, passing and decisions in the centre..the left and right ones should be the hardworking, hard-tackling ones.

[xouman]

Hi rashidi1. I'm seeking advices since my team is not working properly

I was told to achieve 4th position at the end of league, now I've finished 17th. If I ask assistant, he says I need to improve the team, so maybe I'm not so contendant as I wasr told. I'm on BSS, so I have crappy players, and I'm trying to use a 4-4-2 with short farrows to wingers, a farrow for one MC and a barrow to the other MC. I have a huge pitch (maximum length and width), but most rivals have a short one.

Well,i have tried to play aggresive at home and moderatey away. At home mentality is between 10 (for GK) and 18 (for both STs), and away about 4 ticks lower. Passing is mixed for MCs, and directly to other players (lower for wingers, STs and fullbacks, higher for DCs and GK), since no one has nice passing, only 3 players achieve 8. These 3 players haev ttf to mixed.

Now i'm using target man, and run to the ball (13 pace and acc), a playmaker (I'n not using now barrow not farrow for MCs) since he dictates tempo and don't loses ball and I'm countering, with a dl between 5-11 depending on striker's pace and acc. With these tweakings team is performing better, but not too much. What can i do to do well? i have these *key* players:

old DC's and FBL, with low pace, one of them strong. FBR mixed, he's my captain, available also as WBR.

2 nice mixed MCs, and 2 DMCs a bit worse. Awful MR, mixed ML. 2 mixed ST's, one of 13 acc and pace. 1 old FC great in the air but with 3 pace acc. 1 fast St (15 pace acc, 10 off the ball and dribb) but seems to have less quality.

I'm in the middle in goals in set pieces. I don't have true power in the air (i know it is not good for direct passing play, but it is good to have short passing in BSS?). What can I do?

Thanks!

[Rashidi]

If you don't mind me saying this but that's a lot of basic errors in your game for LLM football.

Unless you have a really good player, why choose a playmaker?

You're a nonleague side where players find it hard to pass, yet you have a wide pitch? Isn't this going to be harder for you?

I would think of keeping as many players within a certain mentality range if I were you. That way you get as many people to help your team out. Apart from the defense, perhaps your whole midfield and perhaps one forward should sit on normal mentality.

Why don't you use a simple tactic for a simple team..like a 4132 or a 442..some tactics require players to be fairly good...Why don't you manage some teams in the championship first. Once you are comfortable and can easily find success move down to the BSP where it does get harder

[xouman]

Thanks for quickly reply

Every game I play I pick a team in the bottom and take it to the top without many problems. Oftem I get stuck in cocacola 2, but achive it with free signings it's easy.

Why I'm using a PM? I only did in las quarter of season, and my team seems to work better. Maybe it's because he has nice passing rating and my wings sucks, but I will follow your advice and not using PM. What about target man? I suppose that run to the ball is nice, more than half of my goals because of this (also with counters).

I don't think my formation is weird :/ At this moment, only short farrows for both wingers. I tested a farrow for a MC and barrow for the other MC, it worked for mi in fm2007 but not now.

Yes, it seems that a wide pitch does not help, but I'm winning quite matches at home (about 2/3 of my points are at home). In this way, my strikers have more space to get a loose ball, while my fullbacks help my DCs to defend well. I have a middle defence, while a bad attack.

And you suggest me to have low mentality.. I will try. I have it quite high since I have troubles making goals (well, I had until have a fast TM, both my strikers score more now).

What about passing style for BSS? what is more advisable for me?

thanks again!

[jsud]

First post with the new '08, and psyched about the game...and this thread, another awesome one Rashidi.

Anyway, I have attempted to set up a quality 4411 balanced formation, as Bari in Serie B (the one striker because of my lack of talent up there)...and things are generally working well except for two glaring issues:

1. my 2 MCs...I cannot get them to defend properly (or at least, how I'd like)...I am looking for a Gattuso-Ambrosini type duo...ball winners who funnel passes to my wingers/AMC when on attack...the attack side works, defensively they constantly close down on the same opponent leaving gigantic openings in the middle. Both have mentality normal (one a few ticks higher than the other), both close down often...after that, the problems arise: my latest attempt to get them to work properly is one on tight-marking/man-marking, the other zonal...still unsuccessful (as were most other iterations)...any advice on getting the duo to operate as a better defensive pairing would be hugely appreciated! I don't want to set one on rarely closing down, as I'd like either to go after the opposing creative players, as both have good tackiling/positioning stats.

2. My FBs (DL/DR) are absolutely terrible with the ball...a lot of sitting around with the ball at their feet until the opponent takes it away. They are devent players, and I'm flabbergasted as to why this happens. Both have passing set to mixed (one slightly lower as he has worse passing attributes)...neither have ttb or hub set up....nor rwb, fwr or farrows. It seems to me they should be either popping a ball up to the winger, or a short pass to the mcs...yet in general, they just park for a while and enjoy the weather when they get the ball.

Can't wait to get some more STs in the jan transfer window and have a go with a normal tactic...

thanks for any help and such a great thread.

[korzy]

ok, back to the lab again.

I played Lyon away, and got totaly dominated in both possession and passing completion, Rash this one is for you: how come the tactic which worked greatly before just can't do it?

it wasn't a bad match, since I lost away to Rennes too.

home I was playing bad either, but I can't spot the reason... help :/ ?

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jsud:

First post with the new '08, and psyched about the game...and this thread, another awesome one Rashidi.

Anyway, I have attempted to set up a quality 4411 balanced formation, as Bari in Serie B (the one striker because of my lack of talent up there)...and things are generally working well except for two glaring issues:

1. my 2 MCs...I cannot get them to defend properly (or at least, how I'd like)...I am looking for a Gattuso-Ambrosini type duo...ball winners who funnel passes to my wingers/AMC when on attack...the attack side works, defensively they constantly close down on the same opponent leaving gigantic openings in the middle. Both have mentality normal (one a few ticks higher than the other), both close down often...after that, the problems arise: my latest attempt to get them to work properly is one on tight-marking/man-marking, the other zonal...still unsuccessful (as were most other iterations)...any advice on getting the duo to operate as a better defensive pairing would be hugely appreciated! I don't want to set one on rarely closing down, as I'd like either to go after the opposing creative players, as both have good tackiling/positioning stats.

2. My FBs (DL/DR) are absolutely terrible with the ball...a lot of sitting around with the ball at their feet until the opponent takes it away. They are devent players, and I'm flabbergasted as to why this happens. Both have passing set to mixed (one slightly lower as he has worse passing attributes)...neither have ttb or hub set up....nor rwb, fwr or farrows. It seems to me they should be either popping a ball up to the winger, or a short pass to the mcs...yet in general, they just park for a while and enjoy the weather when they get the ball.

Can't wait to get some more STs in the jan transfer window and have a go with a normal tactic...

thanks for any help and such a great thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Try one player on defensive mentality preferably last notch and another on normal. Have neither player on HUB so they work together faster. One on FWR often and the other...try none first..then try on mixed if you don't develop a hole. Its important to do this, cos of your fullbacks..

2. Your fullbacks are wierd. Very odd behaviour. They sound like conference players. Even then they should pass the ball. Try last notch of short, mentality normal last notch. That should put them closer to the MCs, and FWR often so they overlap.

Korzy You need to do things in stages. Sort out your defense, and one thing don't be dogmatic about one shape, this is a game afterall. With every team you usually need to start off with a simple formation. Never try complicated instructions or tactics till later. At least that's how I do it.

[korzy]

I can't point out whats going wrong, I believe something is flawed with the CD instructions for my fullbacks ( played on 10 CD for FBs and 3 for CBs, trying now 7 for FBs and 3 for CBs )

tempo is first notch of normal and first notch of normal for width aswell, counter-attack and tight-marking ticked on away. wingers passing should be short? so they won't give away possession? my DMC and AMC play the killer balls at most..

[Knglake]

rashidi1 - in your 4-1-3-2 RYDemonsEyE you have the mentality on attcking when do you change this?

also you have counter attck and play offside ticked? do you ever change these.

thanks in advace

p.s im playing as notts county if you got any tips .

[Leeds_Oasis]

whats the difference between cf and st?

[kelvin1234]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kelvin1234:

my both CMs to attack (i have set mentality to 13) and DM to stay back.. how do i play one-touch football in the midfields?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Short passing of between 1-4, 1 behind the hardest to pull off and that may require a normal formation. The players also need forward runs </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok thanks.... but what about TTB? mixed or often?

[doggytree]

Hello, I've been having a little trouble getting to grips with the tactical side in FM08, the main problem is that I keep getting absolutely slaughtered, I would dearly like to solve this problem...

I'm playing with Middlesbrough so you're looking at a mid to low Premiership team with a few very good players and a few not so good.

As Boro have only one good striker (Mido) and some quite good wingers, I'm playing the following formation:

What I'd like to do is have my two CMs distributing the play mostly out to the wings (occasionally through the middle). I'd like my wingers to either cross the ball into the centre for my striker or cut inside and have a go themselves depending on the situation.

I'd like them to play a normal style (counter attacking against the big teams) at a fast tempo with relatively expansive passing, especially long through balls from the CMs for the two wingers to run on to.

The problem is that I can't actually execute this grand vision of mine. Therefore, any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Knglake:

rashidi1 - in your 4-1-3-2 RYDemonsEyE you have the mentality on attcking when do you change this?

also you have counter attck and play offside ticked? do you ever change these.

thanks in advace

p.s im playing as notts county if you got any tips . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's team mentality right? Its my default, I find that if my defense handles itself, fine, I don't change it. If I find myself under pressure I drop it to normal.

I just leave those as default..if I attack, offsides on, if I go normal, counter and offsides on.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Leeds_Oasis:

whats the difference between cf and st? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Centreforward..old fashioned player like Alan Shearer..develops play around him..striker..Robbie Fowler..goal poacher and finisher

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kelvin1234:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kelvin1234:

my both CMs to attack (i have set mentality to 13) and DM to stay back.. how do i play one-touch football in the midfields?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Short passing of between 1-4, 1 behind the hardest to pull off and that may require a normal formation. The players also need forward runs </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok thanks.... but what about TTB? mixed or often? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TTB is dangerous, you put it on all three you may have problems, I would pick the central one on often the other two on mixed. Depends on whether you have the quality to pull it off or normal all three

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doggytree:

Hello, I've been having a little trouble getting to grips with the tactical side in FM08, the main problem is that I keep getting absolutely slaughtered, I would dearly like to solve this problem...

I'm playing with Middlesbrough so you're looking at a mid to low Premiership team with a few very good players and a few not so good.

As Boro have only one good striker (Mido) and some quite good wingers, I'm playing the following formation:

What I'd like to do is have my two CMs distributing the play mostly out to the wings (occasionally through the middle). I'd like my wingers to either cross the ball into the centre for my striker or cut inside and have a go themselves depending on the situation.

I'd like them to play a normal style (counter attacking against the big teams) at a fast tempo with relatively expansive passing, especially long through balls from the CMs for the two wingers to run on to.

The problem is that I can't actually execute this grand vision of mine. Therefore, any help would be greatly appreciated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My answers have to be brief..so ask again if you don't really understand..

MCs close down own half..they need to hold positions...DM Close down often..he hounds..

Passing short say around 4 for the MCs, perhaps even for the DM. TTB mixed for all three...though you may want to think about not giving it to the DM in case he is the type to dwell on the ball.

Wingers give them FWR often, RWB mixed and Cross Mixed..FWR often takes them behind defensive lines, RWB makes him decide when to dribble and when to pass, same with cross...passing should be direct..nothing else. So they don't waste time with their passes..ideally you will see one touch all the way to the flanks and then whips ball in.

Now this formation can have a normal tempo.

[doggytree]

Cheers, I'll have a go with that a report back on how it's working.

[kelvin1234]

i have some problems wif the tactics i'm using now... i playing wif tottenham 4-1-2-2-1.... playing quick and wide,dline push up,ticked offside..

fullbacks-mentality,passing both on 10,little creative.. FR often, deep cross often

dm - defensive mentality, passing-1, all mixed except for cross and long shots

2 CMs - last notch of normal mentality and creative freedom, passing 1, close down own area, FR-often,RWB-mix,TTB - 1 mixed 1 often

wingers- farrow to cuts inside,passing mixed, close down often, FR,RWB often , TTB and cross ball mixed

striker (which have been great. scoring 5 in 3 game) - i have him short (1) passing .. often closing down, FR-often,RWB-TTB mixed, others rare, and have him to hold up the ball

every match i was on low shots.. and below 40% of possession...and won matches mostly becos of luck and my GK =( need ur help here..

i intend to play beautiful football(one touch) in the midfields ... wif my wingers cutting inside and have my fullbacks to cross in early

[Rashidi]

Don't try and make their passing that short..they will have to be incredibly good. Try a passing of short..just short of mixed.

Tough to do..you need to perhaps make the formation less wide..look at your dline as well..pushed up puts a lot of pressure on players..you can still get high tempo fast flowing games if you play on normal and have direct passing for your wingers and your MCs.

[korzy]

Rash, I decided to give my away-possession tactic a go on Home match, these are the consequences:

match stats:

http://img229.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matchwn5.jpg

action zones:

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matchgz7.jpg

players stats:

http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matchbt8.jpg

As you could obviously notice, the main idea of the tactic - controling possession works very well.

defence though is not as strong as it could have been, and not enough killer balls being played, but thats the away tactic so no complaints.

these are the team instructions:

http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matchbf7.jpg

anything you'd change here? you could obviously notice that Micoud ( my AMC ) is not as efficient as I'd want him to be... these are his instructions:

http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=matchvb7.jpg

what should I change to get him more into the game? perhaps lowering his closing down? or maybe focus passing through the middle and give him mixed FWR? *** help is really needed ***

[kelvin1234]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

Don't try and make their passing that short..they will have to be incredibly good. Try a passing of short..just short of mixed.

Tough to do..you need to perhaps make the formation less wide..look at your dline as well..pushed up puts a lot of pressure on players..you can still get high tempo fast flowing games if you play on normal and have direct passing for your wingers and your MCs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks rashidi1... followed ur advice and tried few matches... things getting better for me...possesion getting above 50% .love the way how my midfield played... and full backs sending early cross to FC.. FC knocking the ball to either of MC and shoots... but 1 thing is ... both wingers arent getting very involved.. any advice ?

[Rashidi]

That looks pretty ok..a defensive CA tactic that actually denies space..you control midfield very well. I wouldn't be too concerned with defense, since you didn't allow them much time there.

I'd be more concerned with your Leftback, he had a lot of passes to make which shows he's an important outlet for you, had the most interceptions, but looks like he was not very attacking. But if its defensive you want..he's doing ok.

In midfield you talked about micoud..now the only thing you should try perhaps is to give him FWR often, that will take him up a lot more, that's provided you have enough support, and if you find that you are having so much possession, yeah you can take risks.

A defensive counter attacking tactic with 61% possession. You should be teaching me!

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kelvin1234:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

Don't try and make their passing that short..they will have to be incredibly good. Try a passing of short..just short of mixed.

Tough to do..you need to perhaps make the formation less wide..look at your dline as well..pushed up puts a lot of pressure on players..you can still get high tempo fast flowing games if you play on normal and have direct passing for your wingers and your MCs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks rashidi1... followed ur advice and tried few matches... things getting better for me...possesion getting above 50% .love the way how my midfield played... and full backs sending early cross to FC.. FC knocking the ball to either of MC and shoots... but 1 thing is ... both wingers arent getting very involved.. any advice ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might need to look at ppms and like..but in most cases, if you set RWB to mixed and Cross Ball to mixed..they should try and cut in when they have the chance.

[korzy]

haha rash, actually I mentioned I played the away tactic at home , as I wanted to try it as a home tactic.

my FBs are set to mixed FWR and cross from deep, not given any RWB ( rarely ) or long shots ( rarely, cross often and TTB mixed.

passing is last notch of short ( +1 = mixed )

I will try to let Micoud have mixed FWR, the biggest question again is, how would I set up my defense? perhaps you could give me a back 4 instructions which I will try to tweak and work with my tactic? I'll appriciate that alot!

One last thing I think I'll try is remove the Counter-attack option, so the balls won't get knocked away .

[harryKewell]

Can someone tell me what 'TTB' means?

[Rashidi]

try through balls

[Knglake]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's team mentality right? Its my default, I find that if my defense handles itself, fine, I don't change it. If I find myself under pressure I drop it to normal.

I just leave those as default..if I attack, offsides on, if I go normal, counter and offsides on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thanks for that. just one more question, is wide default in this tactic or adjsutable depending on the situation (should it be default normal)?

thanks.

[korzy]

well Rash, I tried re-playing the game against Lyon ( away ) and their strikers just found too much space, i tried even switching to tight man-marking for DCs ( the tactic is always tight-marking for everyone but strikers ) and it didn't work aswell. something is flawed and I can't find what it is.

Micoud is yet to get involved :x

[kelvin1234]

yo,,,just played against chelsea (strongest team since i use this tactic) at home and lost 0-1 =( .. chelsea were too good for my tottenham ... lol... here's the PKM for the match

http://www.savefile.com/files/1162258

if u have any ideas/advice to tweak it better please share =X

[yonko]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

OK if you're looking at having 3 central midfielders with the central one making most of the foraging runs, then put the player with the most flair, passing and decisions in the centre..the left and right ones should be the hardworking, hard-tackling ones. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tried it Rashidi but doesn't work for what I'm trying to achieve as far as style. I want the 3 mids to dominate possession and supply killer balls for the 3 attackers.

So, right now I have them like this:

-shape = MLC-MC-MRC

-mentality = 10-7-10

-CF = normal for all

-passing = 5-8-5 aka short-mixed-short

-CD = mixed for all

-Tackling is hard for all!!!

-MLC/MRC have FWR,RWB,LS,TTB and CB on mixed

-MC has no FWR,RWB and CB

This set-up is only when I use any three of the following five: Xavi(MC), Iniesta (MLC), Fabregas (MRC), Yaya Toure (MC/MRC), Deco (MLC/MRC). Zapater is my 6th midfielder and he is mostly used for away games.

If my midfield trio includes Zapater, then I play with 2DM+1MC. This allows my wingers more space when they cut inside and they are having a field day

This second set-up is becoming more and more deadly, making me use it more often. Have you ever used 2DM + 1MC in a 4-3-3?

[Rashidi]

You guys have obviously understood the basics..and have gone on to look for certain styles you want to see, and that is good. As time progresses I'm sure you guys will develop your own way of playing.

[Chasbien]

rashidi thanks very much for a great read and some very usful hints and tips.

after playing fm07 and putting it in the bin after six weeks, i thought i would give fm08 and si games one last chance. No i dont want super tactics like dalbo but i do want to enjoy the game.

what you have done has made me understand the game play alot better and how players would respond to them postions, so much so derby are now challing for the title in my second season (only played 8 games lol)

thanks again

[korzy]

I still struggle with defence setup.. and I do consider that as a part of basics... would like to get a clue about how to set closing down for back 4 on fm07, since 08 is yet to be clear ( and ofcourse Im yet to get the game )

[Rashidi]

korzy a lot of what I say is applicable to FM2008, things have changed somewhat from FM2007, the basics are the same, yet the balancing is finer on 07 where mistakes are easily punished.

The most important thing to remember when setting up your defense is to make sure you don't have too high a closing down. And to use the right players. One of your screenshots show that you can set it up right. So I'd take it from there.

[jsud]

Solved my odd fullback issues by...not using fullbacks! I won't keep it this way, but I've been using a 3421 formation based on the logic above and am having a good go of it....its a little bit of a rodeo at the back with only 3 defenders, but they are pacey so its generally ok.

One thing I'm starting to notice more than before...proper player stats are more important than I originally thought...forming play to use the players to their capacity (as opposed to assigning playmakers, targetmen, free-role, etc.) seems to have a much nicer effect on overall play. I've focused play through my high decision making/creativity/passing midfielder and AM, while having the pacier ones making forward runs..and its actually happening.

Pretty excited about the whole thing. 08 is definitely more difficult than previous iterations (a constant progression since the old days of 00/01)...but I'm having a blast creating the tactics and watching the results.

Next step, getting another FB and creating a more stingy 4 man back line with continued success up-front.

Thanks for all the help.

[Abaddon879]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

<LI>Slow probing possession based game

Higher closing down in midfield/attack

Passing short

Tempo slow to normal

Width - Wide

More FWR

More players with TTB instructions

Higher CF in front

Ideally some players will be on direct passing to set off quick thrusts

The more players have normal instructions the more players defend, so some players may need

either FWR or farrows to make them run behind the defensive lines

Its easy to go from a defensive set up to one of these, the key lies in the passing and closing down instructions. If you want to knock the ball about, set passing to the low end of short and mixed. Short passing will see players knock it around more. If you want to do probing kind of football your shape is very important. At least 3 centrally placed midfielders are needed. Tempo should be slow or normal. Leave closing down untouched in defense, but increase it in midfield. These kind of formations benefit from some players on direct passing, the thrusts will come from here.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am trying to create a 4-1-3-2 formation for my Reading FC team, and despite there being a lack of good central midfielders on the books at Reading, I want my team to play a slow, possession-based game where we try to dictate the play rather than chase the games. The plan is to use Harper and Gunnarsson as MRC and MLC as they both have relatively high workrate, with hopefully Valdiva in the MC position for a creative player.

The style of play you have decribed sounds perfect, and I had some success with my early implementation, but I was not totally happy and so am trying again to make up where I went wrong.

My main concentration for this tactic is that I want it to be defensively sound, from which I can then employ slow build up play and gradually force my way into their third and, with any luck, score.

After reading so many threads about defensive line, defender settings etc. I finally came up with the following settings for the back 5:

FB:

Mentality - Normal(12)

Creative Freedom - Normal(10)

Passing Style - Mixed(10)

Closing Down - Own Half(14)

FWR - Often

RWB - Mixed

TTB - Mixed

Long Shot - Rare

Cross Ball - Often

Marking - Zonal

DC:

Mentality - Defensive(5)

Creative Freedom - Little(5)

Passing Style - Short(6)

Closing Down - Own Area(5)

FWR - Rare

RWB - Rare

TTB - Rare

Long Shot - Rare

Cross Ball - Rare

Marking - Man (non-specific)

DMC:

Mentality - Normal(10)

Creative Freedom - Little(5)

Passing Style - Short(5)

Closing Down - Whole Pitch(15)

FWR - Rare

RWB - Rare

TTB - Rare

Long Shot - Mixed

Cross Ball - Rare

Marking - Zonal

HUB - Yes

I am not entirely sure if HUB for the DMC would work? The plan was for the ball to go to the DMC, and then he holds it up while the attacking 5 players move further into the opponents half to find more attacking positions. This doesn't seem to happen however and instead the players just seem to stand still and the DMC just sits with the ball until he is usually fouled by the opposition.

To try and remove the issue where both MC and DMC go for the same ball, I gave the central midfielder settings as follows:

MC:

Mentality - Attacking(15)

Creative Freedom - Much(15)

Passing Style - Short(5)

Closing Down - Own Half(7)

FWR - Often

RWB - Mixed

TTB - Often

Long Shot - Mixed

Cross Ball - Rare

Marking - Zonal

The plan is for the MC to be the creative force in the side, and Valdiva is one of the best for this role. I have given the MC a forward arrow to teh AMC position so that he will move forwards to help link midfield with attack when in possession. Do these settings seem reasonable for a player of his ability, or do they clash somewhere with the rest of the team settings?

MRC & MLC:

Mentality - Normal(10)

Creative Freedom - Little(5)

Passing Style - Mixed(7)

Closing Down - Whole Pitch(15)

FWR - mixed

RWB - mixed

TTB - mixed

Long Shot - Mixed

Cross Ball - mixed

Marking - Zonal

The end two MC's are more defensive, and there to try win back the ball in the middle of the park. They have high closing down as they are also responsible for closing down wingers, and as such have side arrows to the flanks. The players I aim for here are more box-to-box midfielders who have a little bit of everything, although the main stats I look for are Workrate and stamina for the high amounts of closing down required.

For the atackwers, I use a big/small combo, with Kevin Doyle as my big all-round player, and Lita as the quick player to play off him. I have given them the following setings:

TS:

Mentality - Attacking(15)

Creative Freedom - Normal(10)

Passing Style - Mixed(12)

Closing Down - Whole Pitch(15)

FWR - Mixed

RWB - Rare

TTB - Mixed

Long Shot - Mixed

Cross Ball - Rare

Marking - Zonal

Tackling - Easy

FS:

Mentality - Attacking(17)

Creative Freedom - Normal(12)

Passing Style - Mixed(10)

Closing Down - Whole Pitch(15)

FWR - Mixed

RWB - Mixed

TTB - Rare

Long Shot - Rare

Cross Ball - Rare

Marking - Zonal

Tackling - Easy

Would these settings allow Doyle and Lita to line up well together? I could put Doyle on HUB, but I feel that with his all-round skills he is equally adept at either playing the target man or the quick striker, so I didn't want to limit him.

All in all should these settings allow my team to play as I have described, or have I missed out an integral part of the way I am trying to play?

[Rashidi]

The wide divergences in mentality suggest to me that you may have issues defending. Gaps between the fullbacks and defenders..upfront as well.

The mids are well placed ML/MR, so is the DMC..HUB on him is ok if he has the strength to pull it off. He may get his arse wiped. So I'd take off HUB unless he has an MC thats nearby for him to pass to. And there should be plenty of outlets for him such as those caused by FWR from fullbacks.

[Abaddon879]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

The wide divergences in mentality suggest to me that you may have issues defending. Gaps between the fullbacks and defenders..upfront as well.

The mids are well placed ML/MR, so is the DMC..HUB on him is ok if he has the strength to pull it off. He may get his arse wiped. So I'd take off HUB unless he has an MC thats nearby for him to pass to. And there should be plenty of outlets for him such as those caused by FWR from fullbacks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have played up until January in holiday mode, and I am suffering quite badly defensively actually. Am conceeding at a rate of 1.5 per game, whereas I am only scoring 1.1 per game, so obviously I have some issues with the tactic. Not exactly going according to plan!

Would you reccomend reducing the FB mentality to make them closer to the DC's? I thought they would need a more attacking mentality to allow them to get forward as much as possible and get act as my wingers, but will the FWR cause this to happen naturally, thus allowing me to reduce their mentality?

Looking at the MC and forwards, I can see they are a little exposed and high up the pitch, so would you reccomend reducing their mentality to bring them closer to the rest of the team?

Anything else you can see that might help tighten up the defence? the reasults seem quite sporadic, some games I will totally out play the opposition, some I will get heavily beaten.

[korzy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> One of your screenshots show that you can set it up right. So I'd take it from there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

could you clear it up better way? which of those screenshots, and ofcourse how ?

[Powermonger]

Just realised Rashidi closed his Cambridge thread. I was watching some of your PKMs Rashidi again and you really got your team doing some good football despite the fact they were a conference team.

Anyway to get the thread back to some semblence of how it started, any pointers for the initial setup of fullbacks/wingbacks? We've covered DCs I think (well Rashidi did) so lets move on to discussing some of the other positions.

[Rashidi]

This applies to Abaddon879 as well.

Setting up a water-tight defense

Mentality is perhaps the most important slider, regardless of the kind of team you manage. The difference being on degree. Fullbacks and central defenders should never be too apart in terms of mentality. If you were to think in terms of priority, a fullback defends more than a winger but less than a DC, but in terms of interceptions he's easily one of the most important players to break up attacks.

When setting them up, have the DC on defensive and have the fullback either on last notch of defensive or first notch of normal. There is a slight difference between both, and in both cases the fullback will overlap if there is a good opportunity to do so. And it won't be risky.

Knowing that your fullbacks are going to be heading up the pitch the MOMENT your DCs have the ball is important, as this creates a space with their FWR. And this is one the reasons good sides can have short passing for DCs since the DCs act as a control of possession. In weaker sides the option should be last notch of defensive or even normal. Unless your team is better than the other team in terms of passing and running you should never attempt to play too short a passing game. A quick passing game needs good attributes, or at least those that are relatively higher than the other team.

The defensive plan doesn't stop there, its no use just clearing the ball or making challenges, you need to win the SECOND BALL. In this situation, wide dispersions of mentality cause mor gaps...if too many players in midfield start having attacking mentalities and FWR then they move forward making it hard for the DCs to pass..hence the long ttb or the long ball. This is the reason why I advocate playing on one mentality slider in midfield, or at least they should be on the same mentality scale.

Fullbacks need to distribute the ball well, having them on TTB helps ONLY if they have good decisions and passing. If they don't you're giving up possession, a good way to balance if you want to use TTB is to have them on short passing and to make sure there are ANCHORS or LINK players. These are the players that don't do FWR.

Marking in defense is a good idea, zonal needs a level of technical skill, whereas manmarking is really very basic. So here the choices for me are fairly straightforward. The problem with this game is that the skill levels are now magnified, poor players get caught out very easily against good players. And that is probably the reason why you see my pkms the way they are.

I'm sorry I have been closing my own threads. You see I seem to be spending more time here, than playing my own game nowadays. Its something I want to fix. I'll be around to help people out in case you have questions. This thread will stay open specifically for that. I had to close the others, with 3 open, the focus was beginning to go. Perhaps I will get around to compiling things in a structured format, when that day will come I really can't say.

Korzy The screenshot of the match where you had 61% possession. Honestly by the looks of that you have possession and defending sorted. The next stage is up to you.

[karan316]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

Don't use numbers to describe something to me, please. Use the name on the slider. Are your fullbacks on last notch of normal? That's the position they should be in, IF you want them to go up and down to support the attack.

I don't like tightmarking so much, try taking it off on the central defenders. Do the same for the fullbacks. The closing down should be "in own area" try 6 or 7.

Do not make the mentality of the CDs ultra defensive, it will not help you keep possession. What are their passing instructions, ideally..short passing last notch for the whole group.

In midfield try and keep closing down to own area around 10-12. I can see you're trying to make an "Arrowhead" too...that's as much help as you're gonna get from me.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fullbacks mentality - When you say last notch of normal, you mean the last notch before defensive right i.e. one more notch to the left and they will be on defensive? If so, then yes, thats their mentality, along with often forward runs and cross ball.

Have taken the tight marking off my center backs and it does seem to have helped a little bit. Their closing down is already 'own area'. Do you think the fullbacks should also only cose down 'in own area'? Mine are currently on own half, a few notches higher than own area.\\

What about marking for the centerbacks though? Have you found that man marking (non specific) or zonal works better? Definitely zonal when playing against one up top, but what about when playing against a 442. Maybe man marking/zonal would work better against different types of strikers? I have experimented a bit but cant seem to make up my mind. Leaning towards zonal though

Lastly, yes you're right, I am trying to create an arrowhead It was fantastic in my first season but thats probably coz the 3 AMs were having a ball exploiting the closing down bug. Now that I have the beta, their effectiveness has gone down a lot, esp the two outer AMs. Arshavin still doing a fabulous job as my main AMC.

Question along these lines - if you have created a similar formation on this game, how did you play your outer AMs? Firstly, did you position them as AMCs with side arrows, or AMR/L? And what about mentality, CF, CD, etc?

I really think that if I could start getting my outer AMs (usually 2 between Kapo, Leonardo, Piatti and Lulinha) to perform better this formation will really start clicking.

Thanks for all the help mate, really appreciate it.

[korzy]

what about closing down? this is by far one of the most important things for defence setup?

so saying I can actually play mt CBs deep, and fullbacks on last notch of defensive mentality right? as my DMC is my anchor and linking player, I can set 1 fullback to often FWR and one to mixed, both playing short passes...

still it looks like opposition gets much space in my danger-zones, I agree I control possession but I'm very vulnerbale on counters.

how should I set the closedowns?