Fundamental Football Manager (FFM) - Basics of Tactic Making

[korzy]

also - do you feel playing wide on home and narrow on away is the way to play the game ? ( and does playing slow tempo on away when trying to counter is conflicting ? )

[Rashidi]

Korzy

In answer to 2) No they are not conflicting, and yes thats a good way to set it up.

I don't use tightmarking at all, nonspecific manmarking and my closing down depends on what kind of football style I choose, and the formation I start with. Different formations may require your defense to begin closing down earlier, other formations may need you to sit back and allow players to come at you.

If I were to set up tightmarking it'd most likely be from the OI screen.

Passing well: There is short, mixed, direct and long. Its just different degrees within each one. For short 1-3 usually leads you to one touch passing. Width and tempo play a large part in whether you're successful with this form of passing.

Then you have mixed..which literally allows a person to choose between the different types. One end of mixed inclines more towards a shorter style of passing, but interspersed with direct and long and this really depends on attributes. And sometimes is not a bad option for a poor team.

Then you have direct passing, which essentially is target passing. It looks to find players quickly and can both be long or short, once again it all depends on your width and tempo. A counterattacking style of football will usually play normal to wide and will have a good mix of passing that includes direct.

Whether i play narrow or wide depends on the team. Wide increases risk and narrow reduces it. For most teams I like to attack and take risks so i play wide home and away. I do not recommend that to anyone unless you know what to expect.

[korzy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> A counterattacking style of football will usually play normal to wide and will have a good mix of passing that includes direct.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>so, assuming I want to play this kind of football on away, I should play my wingers on mixed passing, and my MCa on 3rd notch of direct? as it seems he plays safe on 1st notch of direct with only 1-2 killer balls per game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> nonspecific manmarking and my closing down depends on what kind of football style I choose </div></BLOCKQUOTE> sorry for misunderstanding, but DO you actually play nonspecific manmarking? if so, how does it actually work?

by the way, I had pretty much success having whole team on loose zonal except for back 4 playing tightzonalmarking.

about my tall FC, if I play him last notch of normal mentality, 1st notch of direct passing mixed fwr and mixed HUB then he'll be a linking player for the wingers FWRs or the other striker which is set to often FWR and mixed RWB?

sorry for asking so many questions, Im trying to get how the cookie crumbles

[Rashidi]

It depends on your preferred style...are you the type of person who has good players at your disposal..then you could play direct across the board for each player...

If you have average players and wanna play safe then short passing at its highest notch is good...you can then put the wingers on direct to make them play killer balls. At the endof the day it depends on the players you have.

There is no general rule for playing a particular style, it depends on what you want to achieve

Set manmarking on for your dcs but do not assign them a player.

Yes that is true for your tall FC

[Rashidi]

I'll explain a bit more...while its acceptable that you can play a defensive game with low dlines, low closing down and low mentalities...its also possible to play an attacking game with highish closing down and high mentalities...what you need to find is the right balance.

[korzy]

yes it seems that my FC does play a role of a linking unit and he does it very well, can tick objective completed for this one. =)

I do understand that setting direct for players with good decisions, anticipation, passing and technique can lead to killer balls, what if I set my wingers to mix? ( right in the middle of the slider ) will they play the killer balls only when they think they're given an opprotunity? ( depends on the player's decisions taking ability, right ? )

also, I don't believe it will be beneficial to play direct for wingers as I don't play a quick striker, only 2 talls with great finishing [samaras, bianchi] so basicly I play my wingers to FWR often and cross ball often and TTB mixed at home ( away they're playing both mixed which works better, no idea why ).

and I'm yet to get an answer for this: whats the diffrence between playing 1st notch of direct passing and the lets say 3rd notch? would 1st notch be more conservative and less adventerous passing? or its about the time the player holds the ball untill he sees an opprotunity? just like in short when 1st notch is 1 touch and 4th is playing safe?

[Rashidi]

direct is direct 1st notch or 3rd notch

[korzy]

then whats the diffrence, I really don't get it... and this is basics

[Rashidi]

Korzy you need to play and experiment yourself, I can guide you that's about it. What you are asking for is definite definitions which i am not about to give, no matter how many times you ask

[CaptainOfIndustry]

rashidi1, can you lend me some help regarding difficult 2nd season (and 3rd season for that matter)?

I'm Blackburn, having finished 5th in the first season I'm struggling alot the following seasons. I'm playing an ordinary 4-4-2 with sliders set to normal across the board.

Worked wonders for me in my first season. Though I lost almost every game against the big teams, I beat the weaker ones and managed a 5th place.

Now, in season 2 I'm drawing and losing a lot more, primarily against weaker opposition. I've even strengthened my team alot from the 1st season, but to no avail.

Any tips?

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CaptainOfIndustry:

I'm Blackburn, having finished 5th in the first season I'm struggling alot the following seasons. I'm playing an ordinary 4-4-2 with sliders set to normal across the board.

Any tips? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple one..when you set your sliders up like that literally your whole team is playing safe. Now that teams are taking you a bit more seriously perhaps you should start thinking of making a few more attacking tactics. Plow through the thread for some ideas.

[CaptainOfIndustry]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CaptainOfIndustry:

I'm Blackburn, having finished 5th in the first season I'm struggling alot the following seasons. I'm playing an ordinary 4-4-2 with sliders set to normal across the board.

Any tips? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple one..when you set your sliders up like that literally your whole team is playing safe. Now that teams are taking you a bit more seriously perhaps you should start thinking of making a few more attacking tactics. Plow through the thread for some ideas. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you muchly.

[hyperion666]

You see this second season with teams taking you seriously.

In season one I can win games and finish top 2, next season I have the same attacking formation and I can't buy a win.

My players have 'will die for eachother' as their understanding level.

Also rashidi, why is it the case that sometimes I can win non stop with a team in the start of a season, and then with the same tactic, same team in a new game I cannot do anything right.

It seems like utter pot luck tbh, in 07 I had a Valencia game where I lost 1 and had 2 draws all season, I did a new game with the same tactic and was utter crap.

What is that all about?

[ManUnitedJoey]

Thanks rashidi, I'm pretty happy with my tactic now . We went from about 13th to the play-offs in the last ten games and only lost twice.

Thanks loads this has really helped and I'm enjoying the game so much more now.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hyperion666:

You see this second season with teams taking you seriously.

In season one I can win games and finish top 2, next season I have the same attacking formation and I can't buy a win.

My players have 'will die for eachother' as their understanding level.

Also rashidi, why is it the case that sometimes I can win non stop with a team in the start of a season, and then with the same tactic, same team in a new game I cannot do anything right.

It seems like utter pot luck tbh, in 07 I had a Valencia game where I lost 1 and had 2 draws all season, I did a new game with the same tactic and was utter crap.

What is that all about? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I went on a 22 match unbeaten run, that lifted me up to the top of the league. As an underdog we were outperforming the rest. Now whether you're a favourite or not, my take is that they try to make the players as human as possible.

So pressure builds up, morale is easier to unbalance, weather and overtraining takes effect. In my game, it was a combination of all these factors. I became more determined to win, and would lash out at my players for giving up wins even though we weren't expected to pick up anything. I was also overtraining, some of my players weren't happy with the schedules, the weather kicked in and I hardly ever played football on a slick surface.

This forced me to change my tactics to accomodate (weather); adjust my training and to encourage my players...Oddly enough my assman became the archetypal twat who wanted to scold my team at every turn...in the end we turned around a 6 game winless streak and are now back on track for the title with 5 games to go.

[Jablome]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

My DCs..have defensive mentality, low creative freedom..no TTB/FWR

Low closing down in own area..3 notches I think..passing is short last notch.

Jablome...try slowing down tempo, narrowing width, increase closing down by your front men, set OI to close down their keeper heavily and hard tackling on keeper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried a little experiment during preseason I thought I would share.

I am MUFC playing at Greek team Xanthi. By all counts, it is a gross mismatch. I used the 442 normal. I added no other changes but short farrows. So, pretty much the standard tactic the game provides.

All I want to do is control possession. I do not care about anything else.

Now, my thought is that if I do just about nothing, I should at least have 50% of the ball, outshoot them and get some good chances/goals.

First half, I set tempo to slow and width to narrow. No other changes. Half time Possession:

Xanthi: 54% - MUFC: 46%

Second half, I move tempo and width back to the center and close down to mixed.

End of game Possession: 50/50.

Won the game 2-1

I replayed the game with same standard tactic. This time, I set closing down to often from the start for the whole game. No other changes.

1st Half possession: Xanthi - 55, MUFC - 45

End of game: 60/40.

MC was sent off and we lost 1-0.

I felt the sending off skewed things, so one more game with same setup as here. Closing down to often.

First Half Possession: Xanthi -57, MUFC - 43

Now, FC sent off in 43rd. This is funny.

End of Game: 61/39

Final: Lost 1-0

Game 4: Same exact setup

First Half - 60/40

End of Game - 55/45

Final - Lost 1-0

4 test games, 2 goals for, outshoot them every game, never controlled possession.

So, I am curious what you think? Seems to me that United should pretty much dominate when I press play even if they are mad and don't want to play. Clearly, that is not what happened. I wonder if it makes a lot of sense that you would have to tinker that much in order to dominate a match-up like this.

[Jablome]

5th game: This time the only thing I change for 442 Normal with short farrows is to push team mentality slider to all out attack. All other sliders are in the dead center including CD.

Possession

1st Half: Xanthi 58, United 42

Second: 60/40

FC sent off in second! Unbelievable.

Final...we destroy them 4-1 on 4 first half goals.

Interesting...

[Jablome]

Well, one thing these test (and I have done more of them) strongly suggest is that when you are playing a far inferior opponent, you must attack them mercilessly. That would seem to be the same in RL and make a lot of sense. Never let them even get a foothold.

[Rashidi]

Ok there's one general rule I follow.

I attack without quarter any team which is considered my equal or inferior

I go for possession type games with sides better than me, the goal here is to keep the ball away from them as much as possible

[Taunton]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I go for possession type games with sides better than me, the goal here is to keep the ball away from them as much as possible </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry if I haven't paid attention, but to play a possesion type of football, should you then go for short/slow passing, narrow, let some players hold up ball, and no TTB?

Or am I completely wrong here?

[Rashidi]

To play possession football, I have a short passing game, played at a slow tempo on normal width.

You need to use TTB to probe a difficult defense, so some players will need to use it preferably your link players. So far I haven't been using Hold Up much with midfielders cos they seem to lose possession more easily, that's cos my side aren;t a good team

[frithnick]

hey rashidi i play 442 and want possision football but am blackpool will my players be good enough? what settings do u recomomend?

[ManUnitedJoey]

read the first page or 2 of this thread and he talks all about possesion football.

[Jablome]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by frithnick:

hey rashidi i play 442 and want possision football but am blackpool will my players be good enough? what settings do u recomomend? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is going to vary from opponent to opponent. Start from the beginning of this thread.

[Jablome]

But I will add that unlike my experience with 07, I have found that you can use the same tactic with some slider tinkering for each game and be effective.

Actually, I starting do that after reading one of Rashidi's threads. I am certain it remains relevant to '08. You can find it here:

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717/m/3332029423/p/1

[Alekos]

Let's assume we manage a LL team..

As I read in previous posts if you want to play possession football you should have mant players in the middle and short passing..

The questions are the following:

In LL teams is very hard to find players with good passing to play short or direct..On the other hand if you try to play long ball you might give away possession too easy..

Usually IRL poor teams play long balls along with deep crossing...

So shall I be able to play possession football with those teams and how?

Bearing in mind that the stats of the players are awful?Or a passing stat around 12 is going to be good for short passing?

I though that rashidi said than when you manage a low team you should play mixed passing, but mixed isn't includes short-direct-long which means is up to the player to decide what pass he is willing to make??

In previous years when I was managing LL clubs basically from Engalnd used to play a 4-1-2-1-2 with crossing by the wingers from the byline even if their crossing ability was a bit poor..

Any suggestions?

P.S. I also used to play long balls when the pitch was wet..

[Rashidi]

Seen some threads recently pop up with questions on sliders..this thread does cover them as does the faq up top. I think I closed all the links that lead to tactic downloads as I'm not comfortable releasing any tactic until a final patch is available.

The principles of making any tactic are the same.

One thing though...its my experience that certain formations will do better than the rest. The hardest to make efficiently is the 442 and the easiest to make work is the 4132. The most consistent formation with results has to be any formation with a solo striker and at least 3 AMs supporting the attack.

Hope this thread helps..I closed it a while back and I do not think there is a link to it in the bible

[wwfan]

Glad you've reopened it. Always worth a read.

Agreed about releasing tactics.

[Powermonger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One thing though...its my experience that certain formations will do better than the rest. The hardest to make efficiently is the 442 and the easiest to make work is the 4132. The most consistent formation with results has to be any formation with a solo striker and at least 3 AMs supporting the attack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you think the 442 is hard to make because it is a very popular tactic and one which SI might use the most for testing the match engine?

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Powermonger:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One thing though...its my experience that certain formations will do better than the rest. The hardest to make efficiently is the 442 and the easiest to make work is the 4132. The most consistent formation with results has to be any formation with a solo striker and at least 3 AMs supporting the attack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you think the 442 is hard to make because it is a very popular tactic and one which SI might use the most for testing the match engine? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 4-4-2 is hard to make becaqsue it offers no advantages over most of the AI tactics (also 4-4-2). Other, split-strata, lone strata systems do. To many extents, such systems exploit certain engine weaknesses, rather than deconstruct it as a whole. That is not to belittle them; they are hugely creative and fundamentally work. However, for me, the joy is beating the engine at its own game, and that means 4-4-2.

[jaycar]

Good to see this thread re-opened

[i had 2 du this]

Nice post rash, does all this still apply for the patch and for the upcomng patch

[Rashidi]

Most of the information still apply, however I will update all the information here when the new patch is released. In general the theme of the thread is very straightforward. I usually try and plug all my thoughts in one thread, that makes it relatively easy for me.

1. You need to control space to be good at this game, hence the preponderance of so many wierd looking tactics, which on first glance may not make sense, but a closer look should reveal that they hoard space.

2. The sliders : Are still the same, and should be treated as such. There may be some changes later, but in general I believe that :

To play attacking football:-

1. You need to be able to win the ball in the opponents third, which means a dline of between 12-15.

2. Tempo should be normal, width wide and the attacking group of players should have some set to mixed/direct.

Much of the principles remain the same

[jaycar]

Rashidi, what are your thoughts on mentality these days, still the same? I'm on one mentality for the midfield these days, even the MCd is on team, but on mixed FWR, it seems to close the gaps up a bit.

[FourFourTwo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

Yes you can, actually if you notice, he becomes a playmaker automatically if he's good. I prefer giving him the instructions. There is one concern though, I find that Hold up Ball isn't a good instruction for DMs anymore, what do you lot think? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I tried analyzing hold up ball because it does have its advantages but at a risk. In this version of FM you are right, I had a striker with 17 dribbling and 15 strenght and he was losing the ball, eevnthough I had another striker as cover. I looked at the opposition defender and his tackling stats was way off 17 while the strenght stats was also either similar or less. i guess he just made a tackle. I wonder if it is related to getting free kicks near the box? Anyway, an indirect form of keeping the ball while plays shape up seems to be having really good dribblers on the attacking front with the wingers, attack styled MC or even AMC in sat a 4-4-1-1 and including the striker. Seems tht as they dwell on the ball, movement also happens with other players getting into their respective dangerous positions. Pretty effective.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jaycar:

Rashidi, what are your thoughts on mentality these days, still the same? I'm on one mentality for the midfield these days, even the MCd is on team, but on mixed FWR, it seems to close the gaps up a bit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My thoughts haven't really changed. Mentality affects positions and acts as a risk/reward agent for choices a player makes during the game, these more often than not relate to forward runs and passing.

I still prefer to use a split mentality system. There have been others used, but the logic is pretty straightforward.

a. Mentality has 5 settings and that's all people need to remember. The extreme positions relate to Ultra defensive/Ultra Offensive, and the middle ones are defensive/normal/attacking.

Depending on a players closing down instructions/your defensive line and the position he plays mentality will guide his overall actions + position him somewhere on the playing grid.

b. When playing with 2 players who are MCs, if one is set to defensive mentality and another set to attacking mentality. Positionally there will be a slight effect, this will get compounded if you tell one to make FWR and another not to. Furthermore, the one on a lower mentality will more often choose the less risky pass, which may sometimes involve a punt because a pass to a closer player may be more risky if that player is marked.

[Imperius]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Powermonger:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One thing though...its my experience that certain formations will do better than the rest. The hardest to make efficiently is the 442 and the easiest to make work is the 4132. The most consistent formation with results has to be any formation with a solo striker and at least 3 AMs supporting the attack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you think the 442 is hard to make because it is a very popular tactic and one which SI might use the most for testing the match engine? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 4-4-2 is hard to make becaqsue it offers no advantages over most of the AI tactics (also 4-4-2). Other, split-strata, lone strata systems do. To many extents, such systems exploit certain engine weaknesses, rather than deconstruct it as a whole. That is not to belittle them; they are hugely creative and fundamentally work. However, for me, the joy is beating the engine at its own game, and that means 4-4-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We could call the engine weaknesses "falsifications" and pretend we're using the philosophy of Karl Popper!

[jaycar]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

When playing with 2 players who are MCs, if one is set to defensive mentality and another set to attacking mentality. Positionally there will be a slight effect, this will get compounded if you tell one to make FWR and another not to. Furthermore, the one on a lower mentality will more often choose the less risky pass, which may sometimes involve a punt because a pass to a closer player may be more risky if that player is marked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats what would used to happen if I set the MCd to defensive and team mentality was upped to Attk Also setting the MCd to rarely on most instructions meant he'd get caught on the ball a fair bit.

So am i right in thinking defensive for the CD's, first notch of normal for FB's, team mentality for midfield and one st, maybe one st on attacking is still the best way?

[wwfan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Imperius:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Powermonger:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">One thing though...its my experience that certain formations will do better than the rest. The hardest to make efficiently is the 442 and the easiest to make work is the 4132. The most consistent formation with results has to be any formation with a solo striker and at least 3 AMs supporting the attack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you think the 442 is hard to make because it is a very popular tactic and one which SI might use the most for testing the match engine? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 4-4-2 is hard to make becaqsue it offers no advantages over most of the AI tactics (also 4-4-2). Other, split-strata, lone strata systems do. To many extents, such systems exploit certain engine weaknesses, rather than deconstruct it as a whole. That is not to belittle them; they are hugely creative and fundamentally work. However, for me, the joy is beating the engine at its own game, and that means 4-4-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We could call the engine weaknesses "falsifications" and pretend we're using the philosophy of Karl Popper! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a funny guy, aren't you. I so wish we could go for a drink together. Bet it would be a laugh a minute. I'd also love to hear all your deeply ingrained philosophical knowledge, as mine so obviously pales into insignificance in the face of your superior intellect.

Oh, to have read what you have read!!

[Hawshiels]

Decisions Training?

Firstly, great thread. But my question is how much success have you had from decisions training? I have the tactics training set to very heavy (tried it at heavy and nothing) and yet I can't get decisions to increase very much. My coach has 7 stars but this one attribute doesn't seem to grow. And considering its importance within the game, it would appear to be a real stumbling block for me.

Am I doing something wrong with my training or do I have to consider this as - what the manual calls "Absolute attributes that cannot be trained as much".

I posted it in this thread because it is closely linked with the players' abilities to decide for themselves what to do.

[Powermonger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Defenders in classic 3 man backline formations

Sweepers

Mentality: Defensive (last notch)

Creative Freedom: None

Passing: Direct (first notch)

TTB: None

FWR: None

Cross : None

Closing Down: Last notch of own area or possibly own half.

Stoppers

Mentality: Defensive (last notch)

Creative Freedom: None

Passing: Short - Mixed (last notch of short)

TTB: None

FWR: None

Cross : None

Closing Down: Slightly higher if you're using a sweeper behind them. Preferably in the own area region as well. Probably the last notch,since you want them to drop back and close down first. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Back in late October I was experimenting with 2-3-3-2 but have now moved on to a 3-3-2-2 over the last couple of months. As I'm using a 3 DC backline (as opposed to Cleon's DR/DC/DL preference for back 3) any suggestions on getting more from the central DC?

His settings are currently:

Mentality: Defensive (6)

Creative Freedom: Little (4)

Passing Style: Short (6)

Closing Down: Own Area (6)

I've set him up more as a stopper but feel he could get involved more as the DCL/DCRs do most of the work. Maybe I might try and up his closing down a whisker and get him challenging players earlier.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jaycar:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

When playing with 2 players who are MCs, if one is set to defensive mentality and another set to attacking mentality. Positionally there will be a slight effect, this will get compounded if you tell one to make FWR and another not to. Furthermore, the one on a lower mentality will more often choose the less risky pass, which may sometimes involve a punt because a pass to a closer player may be more risky if that player is marked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats what would used to happen if I set the MCd to defensive and team mentality was upped to Attk Also setting the MCd to rarely on most instructions meant he'd get caught on the ball a fair bit.

So am i right in thinking defensive for the CD's, first notch of normal for FB's, team mentality for midfield and one st, maybe one st on attacking is still the best way? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what I'm doing now. The one thing I've noticed is that if you set everyone on team mentality and then start using the slider to dictate the way you play things can go wrong pretty fast. To avoid that you'd need to change closing down; width and perhaps tempo.

I've noticed a lot of people having problems keeping clean sheets. Its something I don't have a problem with if I have a decent side, and the best way to do that is to use a split system for mentality. I've always believed in anchor players and these are players you give "normal" mentality and either mixed or no forward runs. The anchors end up being your playmakers without you having to choose the option, and its very possible to have as many as 3 anchors in midfield.

There are a lot of approaches to this game, some tend to be more complicated but rewarding and others are simple and effective. At the end of the day it all depends on what you have to work with.

[Rashidi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hawshiels:

Decisions Training?

Firstly, great thread. But my question is how much success have you had from decisions training? I have the tactics training set to very heavy (tried it at heavy and nothing) and yet I can't get decisions to increase very much. My coach has 7 stars but this one attribute doesn't seem to grow. And considering its importance within the game, it would appear to be a real stumbling block for me.

Am I doing something wrong with my training or do I have to consider this as - what the manual calls "Absolute attributes that cannot be trained as much".

I posted it in this thread because it is closely linked with the players' abilities to decide for themselves what to do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In all honesty I haven't been checking my training for quite a while since I have such a motley bunch of players who shouldn't be in the championship. Earlier on I was paying attention and it was possible to improve decisions through training.

I have a system for training and its worked: I don't use preseason training anymore. My training works on the principle of workloads. During preseason, the workload is set on the high notch of medium. During regular season it drops to middle and during peak it goes to low notch of medium. I find that my attributes are consistently improving.

[jaycar]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

That's what I'm doing now. The one thing I've noticed is that if you set everyone on team mentality and then start using the slider to dictate the way you play things can go wrong pretty fast. To avoid that you'd need to change closing down; width and perhaps tempo.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to keep on but can you give me an example of that? Do you mean that setting the 'team' slider to attacking is not a good idea due to exaggerating mentality gaps with the defense?

If so, is it best to aways work within 'normal' team mentalities and just go wider, faster, higher up to attack, like you used to advocate in 07? I've also seen you mention increasing closing down to higher own half when attacking.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

I've always believed in anchor players and these are players you give "normal" mentality and either mixed or no forward runs. The anchors end up being your playmakers without you having to choose the option, and its very possible to have as many as 3 anchors in midfield. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I agree with you on that one, even with a straight 442 or my current 4411 I always end up going with 2 hard working, tacklers in midfield who either run mixed or not at all, I always prefer to go down the wings more.

[Rashidi]

lets see....I remember coming across someone's tactic and he had the whole team on team mentality and the settings were 17. He was also playing wide.

I thought that was way too adventurous, the thing about mentality is this..you always need a couple of players on normal mentality...at least that's my opinion. It helps you retain possession and it also creates a group of people who drop back to support the defense.

When you set one whole team on one mentality, in effect you are setting them positionally higher on the pitch. Once that is done if you decide to hang on to a lead..you can't just drop the dline and go deep. Since mentality affects positioning slightly and since the dline affects depth, any changes you make to mentality have a corresponding effect on how you play.

IMHO Mentality closing down and defensive lines are linked somewhat, I'm not suggesting ppl mirror them, but to understand that a change in one will affect the rest. For instance, you decide to play team 17 mentality and then go forth and drop your defensive line, but have closing down on 17 and higher in your team...your side will be chasing ghosts.

Its that reason alone that I have never used a team setting for all players...the only group I have on one mentality is the attacking group, and their closing downs are all the same too. The goal here is to ensure that I have one unit I can change all the time with a slider change. That would have been much harder to fine tune if the whole team was on one setting

[jaycar]

Ah, I see now...so using the 4411 for instance, the back 4 are set up as you have explained, the 2 central mids are on normal mentality (maybe also last notch?), they close down own half and are on rarely or mixed FWR and the attacking unit (on team ment) are the wingers, amc and st.

The attacking unit is then set from normal to attacking depending on how adventurous you want to be

[Rashidi]

Mentality anywhere in the normal range, naturally the higher it is, the more inclined the player is to attack. This will be enhanced by any individual instructions that encourage it to go forward

[Rashidi]

Mentality anywhere in the normal range, naturally the higher it is, the more inclined the player is to attack. This will be enhanced by any individual instructions that encourage it to go forward

[jaycar]

Thats great thanks