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Fundamental Football Manager (FFM) - Basics of Tactic Making


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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">afraid not...i was in a hurry, so i took a quick look made some changes, ran it in a game, thought it was fine and sent it to you. Hope you didn't mind </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all, that's great, thank you icon_smile.gif Did you send it to my gmail or hotmail account? My gmail account is the one I use, so could you send there please? Cheers and thanks again.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">rashidi1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rashidi1 after all this discussions about this tactic are you able to create the tactic and save on here for us to download....i dont think i have seen it on here unless i missed it??

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well, I'm doing pretty well sitting 3rd place with Man city on first season, but yet to go clear with a tactic, as I'm trying to change and check stuff. I could upload it later on night, when I'm back from work.

basicly, I got a Defend tactic for away, and a possessino one for home, but I'm scorign alot of goals from corners and counter-attacks, and yet to manage and crack the formula for feeding my strikers. will upload later and I hope rash could help there =)

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wow i didnt realise how complicated the tactics actually were untill i read your post rash,. i admit i am pretty poor at the game bum im now conseeding less and my team are performing better thanks to you - cheers!!

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Concentrating on improving the strike rate of forwards is important </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can I do that?

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In your "Demon's Eye" tactic, you set all but your FBs to cross from Deep. Just wondering about the strategy. Seems to me that doing so will get players to play the ball up to the two strikers and AMC faster/earlier. This then opens a lot of other immediate or developing options particularly if your strikers/AMC are very good on the ball. Correct?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

Yes precisely, it also lends to better variety of attacking options </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also, while it probably would benefit a short/slow game, am I correct in thinking that it is most beneficial to a direct/quick/counter game?

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Havent been able to read all of the stuff in here, but there is one thing I wondered.

Has anyone else noticed that MCs (in a flat 442 at least) with normal to attacking mentality and direct passing, sets up the wingers beautifully? Or is it only my Torquay midfield that does it?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by supersaint:

Havent been able to read all of the stuff in here, but there is one thing I wondered.

Has anyone else noticed that MCs (in a flat 442 at least) with normal to attacking mentality and direct passing, sets up the wingers beautifully? Or is it only my Torquay midfield that does it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. It is a good way to play if you want to get the wingers the ball for crosses into the box. Try setting the wingers to cross far post and you might get them setting each other up, too.

I have also noticed that if you put a short farrow on an MC, he really pushes up into the box more than '07 even if his mentality is dead center. Starting to feel it might be hurting his long blasts from loose balls o/s the box. Anyone else seeing this?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by supersaint:

Havent been able to read all of the stuff in here, but there is one thing I wondered.

Has anyone else noticed that MCs (in a flat 442 at least) with normal to attacking mentality and direct passing, sets up the wingers beautifully? Or is it only my Torquay midfield that does it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes absolutely, the best way to play the game now is not to have one set of passing instructions for the whole team..ideal passing instructions are...short/mixed for defenders(look at attributes to decide), 1/short or direct for MCs(one touch or quick direct to flank)..and direct for strikers.

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Rash, do you find that if you watch extended play that you team regularly gets 4 or 5 incredible chances that do NOT result in goals?

I am seriously getting sick of playing this game, outshooting the opponent regularly, getting by far the better chances, doing what I want and watching them tie the game in the 70th minute.

Don't know what to do at this point, but the game is no longer fun for me.

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The 2D highlights have always been a representation of the game, I take it to mean just general things..like I'm giving away too much possession in midfield or not attacking enough..and then work my way.

I'm now zipping through on commentary, that has always been my favorite.

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Remember its only supposed to be a representation of the overall match. I look for general things..like are my strikers getting good chances? Are my defenders too slow? Am I allowing possession in midfield.

Things like this. Once you start looking at 2D as a team play you'll do and feel much better

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From :Alekos <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hello mate!

First of all I have to say that all your posts about tactics etc. are very interesting and very constructive!

I would like you to tell me first if you watch all your games in full 90minutes modes!

I am asking this because I think is a bit difficult to understand how your team plays or what moves you have to make if you just watch the game in Key highlights or extended.

And now about tactics..

Let's say I made a formation and gave some specifics instructions to my players..

Is it good if in every game you change the instructions of the players and team??

I think that the players need to adapt in a formation for some period or am I wrong?

And am not talking about big changes..

Let me give you an example..

Let's say that I manage a small team..

In my home games the mentallity is a bit attacking..

If you go play away and try to play more defensively will the players adapt in this way?

Or even if I meet a big club in the Cup?

Also if I make some minor adjustments to the instructions of my players in every game(for example mentallity is on 10 and I will put it to 12) will my players be able to do what I asked them to?

Hope you understood my point and I would like your piece of advice.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When making or trying to understand how a tactic is doing I sometimes watch on 90mins but now that i know what to look for I go extended for the start..and then key and sometimes i just go to commentaries, only because I use actionzones as a guide and match stats. Action zones are very good to use, because they tell you if you are attacking well or if you are winning the ball in midfield enough.

No its not good to keep changing instructions every game, at least thats what i think, in most games I usually never change an instruction, the only thing i do is manage my sliders. Either go normal for width to reduce my fullbacks overlapping or slow tempo.

Yes it takes some time for players to adapt..in fact its more than just that. If you are a new manager with a new club and you are not doing well, there is a chance that the players will not follow your instructions all the time which is why its important to try and be consistent with player selections and tactics at the start of the season so that morale can improve. It should take a few winning games to do that. But once you lose you need to be very quick to know what to do to snap a losing streak. I once started and went 15 games without defeat, chalking up a winning run of 8 games, and then we lost one match and then another. My teams morale went down, so I had to turn to a 4132 tactic that I know allows me to play well, and used players who are fit and said the right things at the start of the match. We won the third match and quite well too.

There is something about defensive style of plays. I have never been good playing defensively, because all i know how to do is to play one style. The most I do away from home is to use maybe another tactic like a 4132 and then play normal mentality, with a normal dline and have counterattacking on..

You need to understand what mentality does when you make small adjustments. Read through this thread where I talk about mentality which does 2 things, risk agent and positioning tool. I normally dont care much about changing from 10 to 12..its still normal, so why bother. Its essentially the same thing..you just telling him to do a bit more. If I want to change its normal to attacking. That's it.

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Nice!

In this FM am willing to try a defensive style of play with lots of possession basiclly and also I will try not to eat goals so easily..

In previous FMs used to play attacking, scoring enough goals but couldn't keep a clean sheat..

Now I will do the opposite and I will try to go for 1-0 2-0 wins..

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Each player has his own defensive line..if you were to think of it visually...then it should look like this:

MC

FB ------>dline

-->Dline

Rashidi1 you posted this in the DL thread and well incase you miss it in there i decided to ask here too lol hope you dont mind "eek" lol

if this is correct and i assume you know more than me since i know very litte lol a DL of 12 and a full backs mentality of 7 would mean he is 5 mentality clicks from HIS defensive line of 12?Does closing down have its own area for each position too? for e,g FB closing down whole pitch really means he will close down his whole area of the field and not the actual whole pitch?

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MC and direct passing : thanks guys - now I know that its not only me noticing thisicon_biggrin.gif

As Ive mentioned earlier, FM08 has brought back the fun for me. The fun of making logical tactics, implementing solutions as you would IRL(as far as possible that is).

One thing that have annoyed me before, is the width, mentality and DL. I have never managed to get it right.

So I have decided to play a little with this, with some of the advices provided in this thread.

I have no idea how this works out with other tactics, but it works very well with a flat 442.

First of all - I have a strong basic tactic for home and one for away matches. That is because I believe in having different approaches to the game, depending on where you play.

What I do during matches is mostly:

Adjusting width

Adjusting tempo

Adjusting DL

Adjusting some players mentality, if needed

Adjusting width

This is something I have had trouble with before - I never seemed to get the right width, regardless of what I did.

But by looking at my matches, I could see something in the matches where things have gone wrong.

In attack, my strikers are too close to the AI DC - which means that they are effectively marked out of the game. They can still score or set up goals, but they are not so effective.

What would I do IRL? I would make sure that the SCs move away from the DC. There are several ways to do this, one of them is to adjust the width, making the gap between the strikers bigger. You can also go the other way around, and make it more narrow - but then they tend to go for the same ball both of them.

What happens when doing this, is that they often gets into the room between FB and DC, instead of staying almost on top of the DC. This seems to create havoc(at least if you got some decent SC), because the AI players gets into the same trouble as I used to do, not knowing what player that should pick up the loose SC.

Same thing goes for the defence - if the DC are too far away from the AI SC, you can get in trouble the same way as described above. Then by adjusting width so that the DC comes closer to the SC, you will give them less time to control the ball.

Problem here is of course that in some occasions(rarely), by setting the width wider to give your strikers more room up front, you might give their SC more room too - especially when they only got one.

The way I have go to work around this, is mostly to close the striker down a bit more - or keep the width, but lower the attackers mentality so that they get away from the DC.

But as said, it happens rarely - usually I only need to adjust the width.

Adjusting tempo

This is something I do if my players are closed down quickly or allowed to hold the ball for long time. Are they closed down quickly, I usually up the tempo a bit, so that they dont dally on the ball too much.

Adjusting DL / mentality

If the AI can get players tight to my players, I can do the same. If I notice that players that I dont want to have space(esp SC or creative midfielders) are getting too much room, that the distance between those players and the ones that are supposed to watch them - I want to reduce this space.

One method is the width, mentioned earlier, or adjusting the DL/ player mentality if their players are too far away in "depth". Basically, I can see that their MC are close to the midcircle, whilst my own MC is closer to my penalty area. By adjusting either DL or mentality of my MC, I can close most of this gap.

Choosing whether to change the DL or only mentality can be tough. This depends on a couple of factors. Do they have fast strikers, that easily can outpace my DC? What about the MC, are they likely to create space for others, or do they like to hold the ball? Do they play high or low tempo?

I usually adjust the DL if I dont see pace or tempo as a threat against me, whilst I usually adjust the mentality of single players if I want them to get as little time on the ball as possible.

Well, just my thoughts.

Just had a match, where I had done this during the first half(away) - and lead 2-1 at HT. Just after the KO I notice that the AI had gone wider and higher. I quickly went to tactics, made my players go wider(width) and lowered the mentality of my MCs, since it was the AI MC I feared the most. I did this because I wanted to keep my MC close to theirs.

As I confirmed the tactic, they manage to score. Why? Because my MC was too high up the pitch, which resulted in their MC going free, playing the ball out to an unmarked winger who played a good cross. Which was exactly why I wanted to change my width and the mentality.

After this, AI didnt produce anymore chances.

I hope that someone find this usefulicon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Each player has his own defensive line..if you were to think of it visually...then it should look like this:

MC

FB ------>dline

-->Dline

Rashidi1 you posted this in the DL thread and well incase you miss it in there i decided to ask here too lol hope you dont mind "eek" lol

if this is correct and i assume you know more than me since i know very litte lol a DL of 12 and a full backs mentality of 7 would mean he is 5 mentality clicks from HIS defensive line of 12?Does closing down have its own area for each position too? for e,g FB closing down whole pitch really means he will close down his whole area of the field and not the actual whole pitch? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

nevermind rashidi1 i have sorted it out i was over thinking if that is the word lol

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Very quickly cos I really don't have much time nowadays:

Defensive line : Too deep and you need very good defenders who have excellent positional stats, and anticipation, tackling and marking.

Normal: You can get away with a lot as long as you have pace and workrate

Width: Wide - Overlapping will happen very often

Normal - Overlapping is cut down still happens but only when the team is in the opposing half and seems to have an advantage

So if defending a lead:

Slow down tempo, drop width to normal and have a normal defensive line

Too deep a defensive line can be dangerous if your defenders are poor at marking because strikers with good OTB will find space and shoot closer to your goal

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sorry for the novice question but I had to clear this out:

Im playing a 442, as my 2 MCs are playing roles of a DMC on defence ( the left one ) and AMC on attack ( the right MC ) by using arrows.

when having possession, I noticed my DMC roled MC is playing way more killer balls then my attacking MC, eventhough instruced to play mixed TTBH, direct passing 1st notch and defensive mentality ( also instructed to HUB ).

my MCa though is instructed to TTB often, 1 touch passing ( 1st notch short ) and often FWR with high creative freedom, and yet he's to play only 1-2 killer balls a game, while my MCd playing 5-7.

why is that happening? I want my MCa to play the killer balls and my MCd only to distrbute the balls to wingers\MCa.

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i have a theory on this korzy, your DM is assumably set to a lower mentality than the AM, this in my opinion means that your DM is trying balls that have a greater likelyhood of being a good decision/chance for your team because the lower the mentality the lesser the % increase of a player trying the impossible which in most cases fail so in theory of mine its ur DM who is playing the good "percentage" balls.

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A good corner set-up

Try to have three big targets in the box, one on Near Post Flick-On, the strongest on Challenge GK, and a third on Forward. Add to that a real shooter on "Attack Near Post", and somebody with Headers and Finishing at "Stand on Far Post", and you have four goalscoring threats plus a good garbage collector.

Now that is the best corner set-up I know, you can add to that by having your best long shot artists on lurking. When choosing your players, make sure the ones who challenge are good at jumping and have good strength. In all positions that require them to challenge these should be considered.

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I tend to agree with Rune_star's comment, my MCa might be playing less killer balls (although he passes near 90% completed ) because the moment he gets the ball rest of the players are already closed down, perhaps I should let him HUB just like my MCd does? then he might hold untill my wingers\strikers find some space? or perhaps I should not play him 1touch pass? maybe 1st notch of direct?

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The MC can be a more influential player able to play killer balls..take things a step at a time, understand why things work well first. The ideal set-up for the DM is one where he ends up playing like yours

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

A good corner set-up

Try to have three big targets in the box, one on Near Post Flick-On, the strongest on Challenge GK, and a third on Forward. Add to that a real shooter on "Attack Near Post", and somebody with Headers and Finishing at "Stand on Far Post", and you have four goalscoring threats plus a good garbage collector.

Now that is the best corner set-up I know, you can add to that by having your best long shot artists on lurking. When choosing your players, make sure the ones who challenge are good at jumping and have good strength. In all positions that require them to challenge these should be considered. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rashidi- this routine was a cert for 10-15 goals a season in FM 07 but as yet, doesnt seem to be as effective in 08 -is that your experience?

P.S I sent you an e- mail to your profile e mail address and it came back as unknown- is there another e mail address that I can contact you on ?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The MC can be a more influential player able to play killer balls </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, but I can I turn him to be one of those? I totally understand the value of setting my DM to be perfectly tweaked, but now it's time to go up a level and set my MCa to create a lethal combination of those two.

please, share some ideas which I'll give them a try.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FrazT:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rashidi1:

A good corner set-up

Try to have three big targets in the box, one on Near Post Flick-On, the strongest on Challenge GK, and a third on Forward. Add to that a real shooter on "Attack Near Post", and somebody with Headers and Finishing at "Stand on Far Post", and you have four goalscoring threats plus a good garbage collector.

Now that is the best corner set-up I know, you can add to that by having your best long shot artists on lurking. When choosing your players, make sure the ones who challenge are good at jumping and have good strength. In all positions that require them to challenge these should be considered. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rashidi- this routine was a cert for 10-15 goals a season in FM 07 but as yet, doesnt seem to be as effective in 08 -is that your experience?

P.S I sent you an e- mail to your profile e mail address and it came back as unknown- is there another e mail address that I can contact you on ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

delete the words nospam and it should work...erm

And looking at my corners rate and we aren't even halfway through the season yet, i have to say I'm sizzling at set-pieces, in fact I think the scoring rate is far too high if you get the players right, the key lies in strength and technique.

cornerpx6.jpg

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by korzy:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The MC can be a more influential player able to play killer balls </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, but I can I turn him to be one of those? I totally understand the value of setting my DM to be perfectly tweaked, but now it's time to go up a level and set my MCa to create a lethal combination of those two.

please, share some ideas which I'll give them a try. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are some secrets I shall keep to myself...go forth and conquer!

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">rashidi1

"Crypt Keeper "

Moderator

Location: Hanging Gardens

Registered: 17 November 2003 Posted 08 November 2007 18:00 Yes they are for a deeper read go to faerons thread on defensive lines </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes they are for a deeper read go to faerons thread on defensive lines </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i've left a message for there, because you said you tend to set yours between the dcs and mcs mentalities

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hi need help understanding the DL and CD and if they are linked or not </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rashidi1

i too think the DL and closing down is linked but i would like to see your views on IM effecting this, a normal mentality is as i think we both agree 50/50 between defending and attacking but can it be assumed that a higher mentality means closing down will be tried more often because of IM? people seem to agree a forward will try forward runs alot more even if the chances of it being useful are bad due to his high mentality i.e % are crap of it working out, but does same thing apply to a defending thing like closing down will he try close down even though the likelyhood is low due to his high mentality percentage or does he need a defensive mentality to even close down at all??

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Personally I don't think mentality is linked in any way to tackling. That's the impression I've gathered from my discussions with some of the people here. I used to think along the same lines but i was corrected by someone who knows the game far better than me.

Each player responds differently to closing down instructions. If you give 2 players playing the same position identical instructionss they will both do different things. The dots have been programmed to think like humans.

So perhaps one play who has a low natural fitness and low bravery will never tackle no matter what you tell him to and another who has high aggression and bravery may try a lunge every chance he gets, and another player with good anticipation and decisions may time his challenge.

Remember closing down is just an indication where on the pitch a player is supposed to begin closing down. This position gets modified slightly by mentality (positioning), arrows...: now arrows is important to understand. A sarrow and a farrow are 2 different effects.

A sarrow is a hybrid..it makes a player do dual roles.

So there are a lot of things going for closing down, and like faeron has shown its really quite easy to understand once you get your head around to it.

People usually complain closing down never works, and honestly i can't be arsed to explain why anymore. A player will only close down if his attributes dictate it. So if he doesn't then he won't. Teamwork, workrate, bravery are really important for players who are closing down...

And MattUK you've hardly really contributed to the forums,so I'm sorry to say you've being full of it for ages

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">People usually complain closing down never works, and honestly i can't be arsed to explain why anymore. A player will only close down if his attributes dictate it. So if he doesn't then he won't. Teamwork, workrate, bravery are really important for players who are closing down... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a bit harsh..i just struggle to understand because of the reading of it, what i mean is its alot to take in. thats not me complaining, its just i genrally struggle with things like that, part of my disability i guess. So i'm not sure if anyone can make it any simpler to understand..or walk me through it lol

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