daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Ok here are some screenshots from a match I played tonight,this was my 2nd match tonight,my 1st match had 1 guy with a sudden drop but I wanted to get a match were there was also a player that had a knock or injury..I did not have to wait to long.. The start of the match,as you can see my guys are all the guys in the starting 11 are 98% or above.. I will post this screenshot in a reply as it seems I can only post 4 screenshots per post. Anyway after 20 mins.... Uploaded with ImageShack.us A quick check on Wickham's after the drop in condition.. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Nothing showing there. Anyway after 34 mins seems Kakuta game is over...no idea why though.. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Quick check to his status screen after the drop... Uploaded with ImageShack.us Again nothing to note. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Start of the match condition.. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Leadbitter picks up an injury later in the game,he was not taken off until a bit later..you can also see in the motivation widget that he is "recovering from a knock" Uploaded with ImageShack.us You can clearly see the injury icon,now a quick check on his status.. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Again you can clearly see what the problem is. Now if this is an injury or knock then surely me as the manager must get some info on it,or is it a bug as I don't see any injury the condition just dives. I could post screenshots like these for almost every match. Sorry for the sizes of the screenshots just wanted to make sure everyone could see them closely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Would be nice to get some sort of comment from SI regarding this,even if it just to say you are looking into it,or even the dreaded "working as intended" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I don't get it. Wickham and Kakuta have been involved in some tough match events (on the receiving end of a couple of hard challenges I'd bet) and were recovering when you subbed them at half-time. It's not noted as injuries because, well, they're not injured, just shaken up. What's the bug, exactly? No message in the commentary when the conditions were lowered? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I don't get it. Wickham and Kakuta have been involved in some tough match events (on the receiving end of a couple of hard challenges I'd bet) and were recovering when you subbed them at half-time. It's not noted as injuries because, well, they're not injured, just shaken up. What's the bug, exactly? No message in the commentary when the conditions were lowered? Scab read all the feedback from my Asst manager regarding all 3 players,also check the condition widget,Wickham and Kakuta "are exhausted and we should sub them" as opposed to Leadbitter "received a knock but should be ok". How you can possible say "were recovering when you subbed them at half time" baffles me,were did you get that information?I looked at all the possible screens and all I seen was "sub them they are exhausted" with Leadbitter I was told he had a knock but should be ok. Also come half time Wickham had dropped again to 63% so no way was he going out again and Kakuta I believe was slightly higher at 67%,again no way he was going back out. If you could post some screenshots on how you came to the point they were recovering when I subbed them at half time I would be grateful but at the moment you are just posting non-sense,Wickham got his condition reduced by 30% on 20 min's I subbed him 25 mins later!! not 5 mins later,even on the 34 min pic you can see he only went up by 6% and believe me it did not go higher but reduced again by half time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I will just add if you are looking at the condition of the player after he has been subbed then this will mislead you,The condition jumps up around 10-15% as soon as you sub him,regardless if it straight away or 30 mins later,if you leave him on he will maybe go up 5-8% and then start to fall again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Chill with the hostility, I'm just trying to understand your point. I'm going by the conditions displayed on your 2nd screenshot (78%/77%) in the 68th minute. Since you subbed them at half-time I assume those were their conditions at half-time -- not trying to make anything up. The assistant comment is a generic comment whenever condition drops below a certain value; it doesn't say anything about the cause. I'm not talking about minor injuries (green cross), just match events that take a toll on the player. From my experience that is almost always a hard challenge of some kind, like an aerial battle or heavy tackle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 If it was generic then it would apply to Leadbitter but it did not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Ledbitter had a minor injury, so that's what's noted instead. I'm not sure what you're arguing here though; that it can't be related to a match event because the assistant describes the players as exhausted? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 In all honesty I can not understand why any FM player would be saying this is fine,you get no feedback to why it is happening and if like me you have to combat it every single game,saying "mah I think it is a heavy challenge" How do you know that....I could just as easily say "mah the guy went out last night and is hungover" I could just imagine a pro player coming off after 20 mins in real life and the manager asking the asst manager what the problem is and he replied "he's exhausted" and that is that...he is fit for the next game and no injuries or knocks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Watch the full game and check for yourself, we can only take educated guesses based on what we're used to seeing in our own games. I do agree that it should be mentioned in the commentary as it happens, though from my experience it usually is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Ledbitter had a minor injury, so that's what's noted instead. I'm not sure what you're arguing here though; that it can't be related to a match event because the assistant describes the players as exhausted? Yeah I think I will leave it here as far as trying to have a decent discussion about it,going nowhere fast,I tell you what from now on how about SI just make the asst manager saying "hey boss sub that guy" for everything regardless why he needs to be subbed....<sigh> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightSoul Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I've seen that a lot of times... That was related to the player took a knock and had to sideline. If you watch the full match or extended, you might see one of your player sitting outside the pitch with a physio. I guess it's not as serious as a green cross but nevertheless still get a condition reduction. Sometimes, that player will recover after half time, but if that happen in the 2nd period, we're kinda out of luck And the AM tells us it's exhausted and quite annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I do watch extended highlights and have never seen the player off the park for treatment,also this has to be the 1st version ever that a player has an injury and it is not reported to you,If it is an injury or knock then there is a bug as it is not reported to you,if it is not a knock or injury then it is a bug full stop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 After I played some matches with the player widget open all the time and not making any subs unless a player was seriously injured, I don't think that this is a real issue. There are sudden drops in condition, but all players do recover, some significantly, others just 5%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 After I played some matches with the player widget open all the time and not making any subs unless a player was seriously injured, I don't think that this is a real issue. There are sudden drops in condition, but all players do recover, some significantly, others just 5%. So it is not a real problem that some players only recover by 5%...even after say 20 mins of the game? Sorry to say this but no wonder this game is such a mess at release if people playing it are willing to let such things go with the attitude "mah thats ok,I have no idea why it happens but at least some of the players recover",honestly I do not mean to attack but I find it shocking that players are willing just to turn a blind eye to such things,no wonder SI can not get the game properly beta tested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hey, I'm all for more intelligent comments from the assistant, if that's the issue here. Quite a lot of them are just basic observations from the stats, much like the low condition one here. What sort of indication are you looking for with regards to these condition drops? They're neither major nor minor injuries so I think using the green cross icon would be misleading. I said this in an earlier post as well, but I personally think a line in the commentary is just about appropriate, and if not even that shows up - and I think it should regardless of highlight setting - that should be addressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Hey, I'm all for more intelligent comments from the assistant, if that's the issue here. Quite a lot of them are just basic observations from the stats, much like the low condition one here. What sort of indication are you looking for with regards to these condition drops? They're neither major nor minor injuries so I think using the green cross icon would be misleading.I said this in an earlier post as well, but I personally think a line in the commentary is just about appropriate, and if not even that shows up - and I think it should regardless of highlight setting - that should be addressed. Well like I posted much earlier in this thread I restarted my game after the latest patch with the same team,I then bought the same players who are on the same training and the same tactics,this never happened before the patch,I have never seen this before in this or any other edition of the game,if it did happen it would be because or injury or knocks and it would not happen every other game and sometime's to 3 or 4 players(excluding the guys that do actually get injured or knock's). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 So it is not a real problem that some players only recover by 5%...even after say 20 mins of the game? If this is a bug it would happen frequently on every match, and the drop would not be that random as it is. I have seen drops to 72, 64, 56 and different recovery rates. But also matches without any significant drops. It could be a bug, but I can't see real evidence, as it looks like something random. I think people have some problems with your attitude, not with the issue. Instead of trying to pinpoint out what and why it happens you show ignorance when people post their own experience and thoughts about the issue. You started with "players do not recover", now we are at the point that "players just recover 5%". I think this is something to have an eye on, but it needs a lot more examples from different games to make it sure that it is a bug and not just some random part of the game. Did you upload some of the pkms by the way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 3 or 4 players in the same match does sound like an awful lot if it isn't just an anomaly. I do see these drops myself and I've seen it happen in FM10 as well, but only rarely does it affect more than one player (of mine) in the same match. If it happens that often I would guess that it's because the opponents play a very hard game and/or your players are injury prone, but that's just that -- a guess. Did you go back and check what happened to Kakuta and what's-his-name in the game the screenshots are from? That could probably shed at least some light on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Sorry but my attitude? I have posted in this thread as much as I can,I posted screenshots to back up what I and others have reported,I then have posters basically saying "nothing wrong here" without any sort of information except "it could be this or could be that" Also if you care to read what I wrote you will see I have said they do recover but in my experience they recover maybe 6%(which I did post earlier if you had read)but then it starts to fall again. Please do not try and pigeon hole me here,I feel I have a complaint that is worthy of SI's attention. Lets not forget that you posted this earlier "I think most of those drops are caused by minor knocks, probably in combination with the match fitness of the player." which of course I have proven wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 3 or 4 players in the same match does sound like an awful lot if it isn't just an anomaly. I do see these drops myself and I've seen it happen in FM10 as well, but only rarely does it affect more than one player (of mine) in the same match. If it happens that often I would guess that it's because the opponents play a very hard game and/or your players are injury prone, but that's just that -- a guess. Did you go back and check what happened to Kakuta and what's-his-name in the game the screenshots are from? That could probably shed at least some light on this. Totally fine,It honestly does happen very often and I have yet to see 1 player injured or even below 95% for the next match,this is in the Championship were they play 2 games week and they are fit and ready for the next match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 If you really want to get SI's attention you should post it detailed in the bug forums and upload pkms that shows the issue. You don't have to prove others wrong, you should try to gather as much examples as possible as this would be the only way to narrow down, if it is an issue and what´s the cause of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Totally fine,It honestly does happen very often and I have yet to see 1 player injured or even below 95% for the next match,this is in the Championship were they play 2 games week and they are fit and ready for the next match. Oh, I meant what happened in the match when their condition dropped. Sorry if that was unclear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Oh, I meant what happened in the match when their condition dropped. Sorry if that was unclear. Sorry not to sure what you mean mate,In the match I posted screenshots from I left Wickham on for 25 mins more(until half time)is hard to judge what he did as before the "injury"he was rated 6.5 I believe but come half time he was 6.0 but this could happen to any player in that time /shrug,I had to also sub Kakuta as he was struggling from the samething,I then had to change my formation as I had no more strikers. I can honestly say though that this "injury/knock" effect is having a big say in the outcome of my match's,lets be honest if any manager either in this game or real life was being forced into such changes it would have a huge effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Right, I mean what the players did on the pitch when their conditions plummeted. You'd probably need to watch at least the 15-25min period on full detail and keep an eye on Wickham, for example, to see what happened to him. Or upload the PKM somewhere, I'm curious enough to check myself now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 If you really want to get SI's attention you should post it detailed in the bug forums and upload pkms that shows the issue. You don't have to prove others wrong, you should try to gather as much examples as possible as this would be the only way to narrow down, if it is an issue and what´s the cause of it. Well to be fair here I never tried to prove others wrong,that is exactly what you are trying to do to me,I said I would post screenshots earlier in the thread when I got the chance,since then it is you that has tried to prove me wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 They need pkms not screenshots to investigate such issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 They need pkms not screenshots to investigate such issues. Well in all honesty I would wager they could start just about any save to see this issue,there are enough people reporting it to some degree that they could test it without uploads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Just a few people reported it and some of them with very vague postings. If you just want the attention of the forum, okay, if you want the attention of the developers, you should post it in the bugs forum and upload pkms and details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Just a few people reported it and some of them with very vague postings. If you just want the attention of the forum, okay, if you want the attention of the developers, you should post it in the bugs forum and upload pkms and details. Man you are unstoppable,honestly. I never started this thread and trust me I do not NEED the attention of the forum<man you never got hugs as a kid did you?>also if you care to check SI mods and devs not only read this forum but also post frequently in it. This topic was a general post but has turned out to be a little more than that,I am sure that the mod's and dev team are watching it and the fact they have yet to comment speaks volumes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Moderators do not work for SI and the developers which are working on bug fixes have enough to read in the bugs forum. This issue is not an obvious one, as it looks random. Without a lot of pkms and example they can't investigate it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Moderators do not work for SI and the developers which are working on bug fixes have enough to read in the bugs forum. 10 years on this site and you never seen dev or testing team members posting on this section? You should read more posts. Like I said this topic started out as a question but turned into more than that and if you think the dev or testing team have not read it you are sorely mistaken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy07 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 10 years on this site and you never seen dev or testing team members posting on this section?You should read more posts. Like I said this topic started out as a question but turned into more than that and if you think the dev or testing team have not read it you are sorely mistaken. It's obviusly bugging you. So why not get an official response from SI. At least that would put your mind at rest. Placing it in the Bug forum would increase ur chances of that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 I had a look at this last night after reading it on here. And noticed the condition of my striker drop to 60% after 40 mins with no injury or knock. I checked on his player profile and it said he was Tired. He was the only player that game that this happened too, and so i checked the rest of the team and they were all Match Fit. Next Game another player dropped to 56% after 30 mins and checked his player profile and it said he was Severly Lacking Match Fitness/Pratice. So pretty sure that it is linked to that, as none of my other players have this problem if they are Match Fit/Superb Condition or Fully Fit, which is understandable.Some players condition are lower then others and the end of some games as there postion is alot more demanding ie my Box to Box Midfielder is always more tired for obvious reasons. I have seen similar things in the game. However if there are sudden drops that are not linked to match fitness it would need further investigating, but than it needs an insight on the tactics and training to see a pattern - or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Yes it is obviously bugging me,I also said earlier in the thread it would be nice to get a response from SI as I know for sure they are checking this thread,the lack of comment at the moment speaks volumes as they always comment on such things. I take it Sharpy07 you have maybe changed your stance? "Im sorry but until i see anything different to what i said in my above post, i wont consider it a game breaker...." That was to .. "I had a look at this last night after reading it on here. And noticed the condition of my striker drop to 60% after 40 mins with no injury or knock. I checked on his player profile and it said he was Tired. He was the only player that game that this happened too, and so i checked the rest of the team and they were all Match Fit. Next Game another player dropped to 56% after 30 mins and checked his player profile and it said he was Severly Lacking Match Fitness/Pratice. So pretty sure that it is linked to that, as none of my other players have this problem if they are Match Fit/Superb Condition or Fully Fit, which is understandable. Some players condition are lower then others and the end of some games as there postion is alot more demanding ie my Box to Box Midfielder is always more tired for obvious reasons." Your words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpy07 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 No im fine with it, cause what i said is still happenin for me. Just trying to help you.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 But surely from my screenshots you can see it is not only happening to players that are not match fit or indeed that he was tired or lacking match practice,this was you thought the problem was before. The players I showed were either fully fit or match fit so that throws your idea out of the window,so surely after this you must at least admit there is a problem of some sorts that you do not know of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scab Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 As far as I can tell from the discussions here the cause for these condition drops has not been determined, so it seems premature to call it a bug (or definitively dismiss). I would expect there to be a perfectly logical cause in terms of match events if one would just take a look, as opposed to a "mysterious" drop out of nowhere, and that it maybe just isn't being signaled clearly enough to the user as it happens. But hey, that's all anecdotal. Fortunately it's easy enough to verify by just examining the matches where the drops occur, but I guess no one has tried that yet? Been playing a few games myself since reading this thread but I haven't had any of these drops happen to me yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazaru5 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 not read the whole thread... I've seen this 'condition drop' on a far too regular basis and I watch the whole 90 minutes... the only thing that I can put my finger on as a cause relative to the match being played is hard-tackling. i.e. my players are being tackled hard and it is knocking the wind out of them/reducing their condition... my players have little strength and not much better stamina (such is life in Indonesia) and they're dropping into the 40% range at times... sure they climb back up but rarely do they get back over 70% (which in higher leagues is my 'cut-off' for substitution...) and of course, the longer they play the worse their condition gets resulting in them not being able to play another game that week as they will be too knackered to do so... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted December 22, 2010 SI Staff Share Posted December 22, 2010 I think its a knock that has no chance of putting the player out for further games, if you keep them on, their fitness will slowly climb again. Correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Correct. Then why does it not say "recovering from knock" as my screenshot of another player shows? Also there condition only climbs a certain amount(below 70%) and then starts to drop again,so in turn this player has to be subbed as his condition is to low,it's all fine to say he is not out for the next game but he is in fact out for this game after a hard challenge?and virtually every game this is happening not very life like at all,could you imagine if this was in real life also? Sorry but this is a bug but it would seem a bug that SI thought was lifelike and deserved a place in the game. Man I give up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_Funk Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 But can simply be that the player has a knock and the commentary forget to show it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daylight Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 But can simply be that the player has a knock and the commentary forget to show it? It could very well be that the commentary did not show it,the Asst manager does not mention it and it does not show up in the widget which for me would say it is a bug of some form,also if people actually test this they will see it happens in a vast majority of the games,just leave your condition widget open when playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 I think its a knock that has no chance of putting the player out for further games, if you keep them on, their fitness will slowly climb again. Correct. It's what I have observed in my game. It's more of a commentary, AM feedback issue and not a bug in the ME. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted December 22, 2010 SI Staff Share Posted December 22, 2010 Yes I believe some commentary is probably missing...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Waddle Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Well I'm glad it's not just me that has noticed this. I only applied the patch at the weekend and started noticing this happening soon after. Like many I have been playing for years and am well aware of the knock situation where the player recovers. This is definately not a knock situation as 1) The player does not recover and 2) There is no mention at all of the player receiving a knock. I can't work out what is causing it either, but i do know that I have never had to make so many substitions so early in a game due to fatigue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 yeah it seems like there is just a bit of comentry missing, i have noticed this, but it doesn seem to matter too much, i have never suffered when keeping a player on the pitch with poor condition, and by the next game they are fine again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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