The (Few) Things FM Can Learn From FIFA Manager

[SCIAG]

The FM ME calculates in 3D, and there's more than one "camera"/viewpoint availible. The sort of camera control that advanced replays on FIFA and Pro Evo give you would be nice, but I wouldn't call it the step up 2D-3D was.

[Bosson]

Surely a training camp/pre-season camp would be a morale boosting and fitness exercise primarily. I don't buy into sending the team to Copa-bloody-cabana to make them all samba football gods in a week.

[TheRealMagpies]

Guess I just expect more than SI give from the 3D 'tag' then ...

Training Camps are used IRL to improve squad morale (gelling) and fitness. I'm not sure if SI want to put them in though, cycling, lake swimming and paintballing aren't really footbally things, but they are used at TC's for team building and fitness.

Some clubs have an established TC structure in place already and go to the same place every year.

I can't see how SI could add this other than through a simple "Attend pre-season Training Camp" checkbox on the team options window or main training window. Any other approach means incluing selectable events, and then scheduling them ... in short it's too much effort for a very small gain.

[Neil Brock]

1- Quite like that to be honest, would be a nice little touch.

2- Not sure how much a benefit this would be - fair enough you wouldn't be offering him out to certain clubs, but even if they do bid you can still reject them. But yeah, can certainly see the argument for that being reintroduced.

3- FM11

4- As someone else has already said, when you set up feeder clubs abroad you may notice that occasionally a player with that nationality 'appears' as one of your seasonally newgens. Obviously we've made a decision (partly based on legal reasons) to only deal with players over a certain age, so at this stage these types of youth academies as you've put are only available in FML.

5- Would be a nice touch again and it's one of those ideas that gets mentioned on the forums every now and again.

6- A bit harsh to compare a match engine like ours with Fifa, especially when you take into account how much time and financial clout EA have invested in the match engine which they take from their football 'playing' series. It is an area we are certainly trying to improve, as was shown in Miles' announcement video on YouTube. In match-commentary we did try once before for one of the CM games - personally I wouldn't be a massive fan of this. Really a 'manager' doesn't need commentary to watch a game of football - you couldn't really imagine Sir Alex or Mourinho having matches 'commentated' to them whilst they watch from the dugouts could you?!

Saying that we do always appreciate people who take the time to bring up these kinds of ideas, (even if they do have roots in other managerial games!) it's great to see that people care so much about FM and want it to progress as much as we do.

[Brian Shanahan]

6- A bit harsh to compare a match engine like ours with Fifa, especially when you take into account how much time and financial clout EA have invested in the match engine which they take from their football 'playing' series. It is an area we are certainly trying to improve, as was shown in Miles' announcement video on YouTube. In match-commentary we did try once before for one of the CM games - personally I wouldn't be a massive fan of this. Really a 'manager' doesn't need commentary to watch a game of football - you couldn't really imagine Sir Alex or Mourinho having matches 'commentated' to them whilst they watch from the dugouts could you?!

Yes it is a bit harsh all right, on FIFA! How do you expect a game based on perfecting all the peripherals to outshime a game based on perfecting the core. The representation is a small bit basic all right in FM (e.g. I would like to see better representations of two footed tackles, it would automatically halve my swear count), but as long as the game is clearly represented by the animations (which it mostly is) I'm not too worried about polish in this area.

[Martyr1777]

You really can't compare FM to fifa... especially when you consider that EA is well known for making games -look- good but the actual quality of game play is very lacking.

I tried out fifa because of this thread to see if there were any aspects I liked about it... it's actually unplayable compared to FM, the insane amount of micro management needed just to hire one more staff member is stupid and that's just one example. So over all FM is a -FAR- better game.

That being said however, FM's match engine (both graphics and AI) needs a lot of work. There seem to be as many goal celebration animations as there are tackling (a mighty 2-3 each), how are we supposed to tell if a player has a tendency to make stupid tackles or officials are just over bearing without being able to see it. But how a player is rated vs how they actually play is an issue as well for those with high physical stats. Still dealing with a player that has physicals out the ears but no skills or mental and watch him pass the ball to the opposition (even throws it right to them on throw-ins) but he still gets high match ratings just because he runs fast and is strong. He's a right back that rarely tackles, passes poorly, dribbles good, and gets off crosses that are never scored on (so never gets assists), yet his rating in almost every single match is >7... it makes no sense at all.

Things like those above make it little else then guess work if a player will be a good signing (unless you look at the hidden stats or just have an amazing stat player). Not to mention all the AI issues with the ME, another that I keep forgetting about is when a player takes a shot all attacks either stop or start retreating immediately. Now I don't know about you guys, but I've always heard it's good to follow up a shot because you might get this little thing called a rebound.

Anyway, FM is overall a -FAR- better game then fifa... but the match engine is still a core to it, other wise you it's just trading player cards basically. So that engine needs work, the graphics don't need to be something like Mass Effect or Assassin's Creed of course, but they do need to at least have enough animation so we really know whats going on on the field and not just a vague idea.

Like Neil said, managers -watch- their teams, it's how they know what players are on form or not. Not based off some commentary saying the fouled in the box but you can't actually see anything that looks like a foul, or sitting in the in the corporate offices looking at match ratings and seeing that guy with no passing skill getting a good rating so he must not be missing passes.

[TheRealMagpies]

Like Neil said, managers -watch- their teams, it's how they know what players are on form or not.

Which is why we need more control over how we watch a match unfold.

Sometimes the text based match report is more informative than actually watching the animations.

Sometimes I have to work things out from the analysis tool, when the report/match view werent clear.

[BRY-04]

How about a new "camera" viewpoint in the 3D match engine?

One from the manager's point of view (i.e. if in the dugout, a low-down shallow angle view, where you perhaps don't get to see the entirety of the game unfolding).

You could add to this the option of viewing the game from the stands, where you would have access to a more elevated viewpoint, to see the game overall, more clearly.

Also, if using the dugout viewpoint, you could build in the opportunity to give touchline "shouts" to specific players...?

[Tullem]

I agree with all but 6, I think SI has focused enough on the match engine in recent versions and now need to focus their efforts elsewhere, i believe Miles said that graphics such as the crowd/stadium in the match views were getting rebuffed anyway, the other 5 though i would love to see! Good work

[Martyr1777]

I agree with all but 6, I think SI has focused enough on the match engine in recent versions and now need to focus their efforts elsewhere, i believe Miles said that graphics such as the crowd/stadium in the match views were getting rebuffed anyway, the other 5 though i would love to see! Good work

Except regardless of what they've done to improve on it in the past there is nothing to see. I'll say it again, how can you tell what kind of form your players are really in without seeing some detail? Was that a stupid tackle my player made or is the ref just being weak? Are my guys putting good shots on goal and great save are being made or are they shooting it into the keeper every time, as it looks now (refer to the thread about this)? Did my CB get schooled by a fabulous move or was he just standing there picking his nose?

You can't tell any of these things during a match (and this is just a few situations) with the current engine. If you can't see more detail then it's all but impossible to tell a players overall quality of play unless you cheat and use things like scout genie to see hidden stats. Even then the only way to really tell if a player is having a particularly bad game is to check their rating real quick, you can't just see them playing badly.

Like I said, it doesn't need to be some massively amazing graphics engine, but it needs to show us more then what we get. Things as minor as more animations and close-up views of replays would be -MUCH- better.

To be honest I see no point to a dugout view at all, and as for the view from the stands... that's the standard view, where do you think that camera is place in real games?

[afced7]

that's the standard view

I believe that for the hardcore, the only standard view is 2D. People used to be able to tell if their players were any good using dots. Apparently the dots aren't up to it any more.

[Tullem]

I don't need 3D view to know what my players are doing, 2D view (the standard one not the one that looks like all players have been squashed flat with their little boots poking out ) is good enough for me.

[Martyr1777]

I don't need 3D view to know what my players are doing, 2D view (the standard one not the one that looks like all players have been squashed flat with their little boots poking out ) is good enough for me.

Oh? how do you determine if they are playing well or not?

How does it show you if a tackle was good or bad, how does it tell you if your defender is just getting out played or he's not as good as you thought, how do you know if shots going straight at the keeper are just bad strikes or good saves due to possible lack of animation?

Seriously, tell me how you can watch the match and know if you players are good or not. Not if you are getting beaten or not, but if your players actually play at the level you thought they would by their stats?

Without looking at the rating and their mental state in the match you really have very little information as to the quality a player is on the pitch without making assumptions based on all the stats fed out. But those stats change from game to game and it's not all on just the player but teammates and opponents as well, that's why you need to see if a player plays the way you want them to.

[SCIAG]

Oh? how do you determine if they are playing well or not?

How does it show you if a tackle was good or bad, how does it tell you if your defender is just getting out played or he's not as good as you thought, how do you know if shots going straight at the keeper are just bad strikes or good saves due to possible lack of animation?

Seriously, tell me how you can watch the match and know if you players are good or not. Not if you are getting beaten or not, but if your players actually play at the level you thought they would by their stats?

Without looking at the rating and their mental state in the match you really have very little information as to the quality a player is on the pitch without making assumptions based on all the stats fed out. But those stats change from game to game and it's not all on just the player but teammates and opponents as well, that's why you need to see if a player plays the way you want them to.

You can tell fine, especially given the current limit to the animations. You see more or less the same stuff you do in 3D, though it can be harder to tell which foot a player has struck the ball with.

2D Classic is arguably better for judging things like positioning, anticipation, marking, etc, as these often take place "off screen".

[Suge]

What are the legal ramifications of building youth camps abroad? Excellent idea.