Is England overrated?

[xeneizes]

meaningless thread，you just to see the SI is located in which country，you‘ll know

TBH，I think，all Englan player's CA and PA should reduce 20 or more，lol

[x42bn6]

In Real Madrid, Owen ended the season with thirteen goals in La Liga, with the season's highest ratio of goals scored to number of minutes played.

He scored 13 goals in La Liga mostly as a sub. More than Rooney scored in 04-05, 07-08 and 08-09, as a no doubt first line up in MU. Owen suffered injury in New Castle, but still scored 7-11 goals with not many matches played per season. Before this seaon, Rooney's league goal is usually under 15. I won't say it's good for a striker.

And what's that goona do with his performance in important matches? Are you saying that Owen's performance in World Cup, the most important football competition, is not far much better than Rooney? In 2004 Owen also suffer injury but he still played well in Euro 2004.

If you're going to measure Rooney's performances by goals alone...

I remember back in 2005-2006 where we were so dependent on Rooney and van Nistelrooy it was horrible whenever one or the other got injured.

Rooney has arguably held together a team that should have been much worse than it looked in 2004-2006, not just with goals.

15 league goals for a striker is very good anyway, look at the distribution of league goals and remember that Rooney has mostly been behind more prolific forwards - Ronaldo and van Nistelrooy, and that this is his first season where he's been a lone forward.

[aderow]

In Real Madrid, Owen ended the season with thirteen goals in La Liga, with the season's highest ratio of goals scored to number of minutes played.

He scored 13 goals in La Liga mostly as a sub. More than Rooney scored in 04-05, 07-08 and 08-09, as a no doubt first line up in MU. Owen suffered injury in New Castle, but still scored 7-11 goals with not many matches played per season. Before this seaon, Rooney's league goal is usually under 15. I won't say it's good for a striker.

And what's that goona do with his performance in important matches? Are you saying that Owen's performance in World Cup, the most important football competition, is not far much better than Rooney? In 2004 Owen also suffer injury but he still played well in Euro 2004.

This game is FM 2010. Players attributes are not going to be bases on what they did in 2004.

Please stop comparing Wayne Rooney when he was a teenager to Michael Owen when he was arguably in his prime.

And why should Rooney's attributes be based on 10 or so matches that are like 4 years apart?

Rooney was 20 years old in Germany. You can't honestly expect every 20 year old to have a competition like Muller did.

Rooney was coming back from an injury before South Africa just like Torres. They both had horrible competitions and yet you are on here only talking about Rooney?

[aderow]

meaningless thread，you just to see the SI is located in which country，you‘ll know

TBH，I think，all Englan player's CA and PA should reduce 20 or more，lol

Ouch. That kinda hurt inside....

[aderow]

Shadowleech how can you honestly sit there and want to base a players ability on 7 games max and completely ignore the 40 odd games that they play in the season before that (where the play opposition that are at least at national team quality)?

[x42bn6]

That England side (against Germany) was a much better team, too... Seaman, younger Gerrard, Scholes, young Becks, younger Campbell, non-crocked Ferdinand and younger Neville... Most importantly, it was a fairly good side that was balanced - and Heskey scored!

[aderow]

That England side (against Germany) was a much better team, too... Seaman, younger Gerrard, Scholes, young Becks, younger Campbell, non-crocked Ferdinand and younger Neville... Most importantly, it was a fairly good side that was balanced - and Heskey scored!

And when heskey scores.....oh boy...

[StevoRobbo]

Owen also had the massively experienced Alan Shearer alongside him in 1998 and 2000. Who exactly has Rooney had? Nobody thats who.

The change when he did get to play alongside Owen (2004 if im correct), Owen did his cruciate ligament which left Rooney pretty much on his own.

[x42bn6]

Owen also had the massively experienced Alan Shearer alongside him in 1998 and 2000. Who exactly has Rooney had? Nobody thats who.

The change when he did get to play alongside Owen (2004 if im correct), Owen did his cruciate ligament which left Rooney pretty much on his own.

They played together for a couple of matches, Owen and Rooney, and they weren't that bad together, but Owen's next few injuries were pretty much the downfall of his career.

Owen has had better strike partners, true. In Euro 2000 he had Shearer, McManaman and Fowler (spit). In 2002 he had Fowler (spit) and Sherringham, and Vassell played pretty well even if he didn't score that many during the Finals.

[aderow]

Owen also had the massively experienced Alan Shearer alongside him in 1998 and 2000. Who exactly has Rooney had? Nobody thats who.

The change when he did get to play alongside Owen (2004 if im correct), Owen did his cruciate ligament which left Rooney pretty much on his own.

Speaking of rooney being on his own.....before this season, rooney has had the likes of ronaldo, tevez, saha, and van nistelrooy to compete with in terms of goal scoring. This was the first time that he was the main man and he did exceptionally well and showed how he has matured (for the most part).

[StevoRobbo]

They played together for a couple of matches, Owen and Rooney, and they weren't that bad together, but Owen's next few injuries were pretty much the downfall of his career.

Owen has had better strike partners, true. In Euro 2000 he had Shearer, McManaman and Fowler (spit). In 2002 he had Fowler (spit) and Sherringham, and Vassell played pretty well even if he didn't score that many during the Finals.

Exactly. Since Rooney has come onto the England scene, he's been thrust in as the main man. Yes it happened to Owen aswell but he came through Liverpool learning from Fowler and possibly Collymore/McManaman and also has the likes of Shearer and Sherringham when with England.

Rooney came through at Everton learning from Duncan Ferguson (WOW) and when he got to England, he had Owen who was either there half fit or injured and Emile Heskey (no more needs to be said).

Even when Rooney moved to United, there was only really Van Nistelrooy to learn from.

Only the season just gone has he been used as an out and out striker (like Owen) and scored 26 Premier League goals. When has Owen ever scored 26 League goals? He hasn't. the most he has scored is 19 (twice).

Rooney scored 34 goals from 44 games in all competitions last season. Where does Owen compare? Owen scored in 2001-2002, 28 goals from 45 games in all competitions. 2002-2003, 28 goals from 55 (yes 55) games.

So Shadowleech, if you insist on comparing Rooney with Owen, now who's better?

Lets give Rooney a few more seasons playing as an out and out striker and not being a whipping boy for Ronaldo and see how far he goes.

[georgiebob]

Rooney and Lampard are two of the best goalscorers in the world, Gerrard is generally recognised as being better than either of them (but not as good at scoring), Ferdinand is undoubtedly the best defender in the world (when fit) and proves it repeatedly, and Cole, along with Evra, is deemed the best left back in the world by pretty much everyone.

That raised a chuckle. He's not even the best centre half at Old Trafford.

Ashley Cole I'll grant you, but there's a dearth of left sided players at the very top level.

As for Lampard and Rooney being regarded as 2 of the best goalscorers? Rooney scored a few last season true, but it's not regarded by anyone as the strongest aspect of his game.

Lampard contributes a few goals from midfield, but he aint no "goalscorer". That's Drogba's role.

Are you a football agent?

[aderow]

That raised a chuckle. He's not even the best centre half at Old Trafford.

Ashley Cole I'll grant you, but there's a dearth of left sided players at the very top level.

As for Lampard and Rooney being regarded as 2 of the best goalscorers? Rooney scored a few last season true, but it's not regarded by anyone as the strongest aspect of his game.

Lampard contributes a few goals from midfield, but he aint no "goalscorer". That's Drogba's role.

Are you a football agent?

Yeah but he scored 22 goals this season in the prem and he's got over a 100 goals for chelsea....so we like to call him a goalscoring midfielder.....our bad

[StevoRobbo]

That raised a chuckle. He's not even the best centre half at Old Trafford.

Ashley Cole I'll grant you, but there's a dearth of left sided players at the very top level.

As for Lampard and Rooney being regarded as 2 of the best goalscorers? Rooney scored a few last season true, but it's not regarded by anyone as the strongest aspect of his game.

Lampard contributes a few goals from midfield, but he aint no "goalscorer". That's Drogba's role.

Are you a football agent?

Not a United fan then are you? If you was you would know that last season was his FIRST as an out and out striker and look what he did. All the times before he was more of a attacking midfielder/inside forward allowing Ronaldo to be the goalscorer.

Last season he came into his own because he was allowed to. We are finally getting to see the best of him and it will continue.

[edgar555]

That raised a chuckle. He's not even the best centre half at Old Trafford.

Ashley Cole I'll grant you, but there's a dearth of left sided players at the very top level.

As for Lampard and Rooney being regarded as 2 of the best goalscorers? Rooney scored a few last season true, but it's not regarded by anyone as the strongest aspect of his game.

Lampard contributes a few goals from midfield, but he aint no "goalscorer". That's Drogba's role.

Are you a football agent?

This is a ridiculous statement. He outscores most strikers every season in the EPL. Lampard is most definitely a goalscorer for Chelsea and doesn't have a bad record at international level. He just doesn't show up for the major tournaments.

And Rooneys few? 34 goals was it? A few.

[aderow]

And Rooneys few? 34 goals was it? A few.

LOL I just read what he wrote properly....

thank you sir for adding nothing to this discussion georgiebob

[x42bn6]

Ferdinand is also our best centre-back on form - he reads the game so well and really has no weakness when fit. I still hope we can see a fully-fit Ferdinand next season...

Ferdinand continues to pay for a few lapses in concentration a few years back (where he was still pretty damn good anyway, and these critiques were overly-excessive on him) - he is one of the best centre-backs in the world when fit.

[JockStein1967]

They play in leagues that have a winter break while in england they oddly play a lot of matches in that same period of time.

You say they oddly play, but if you think a 4 week break is good then having to cram 4 weeks fixtures in is great, easy fun then carry on.

Many European Leagues Start, and finish later, so no real difference.

More games=More Games it is irrelevant when they play the games, they still play them.

Your "World -Class" players are only World Class next to REAL players, and not together.

[aderow]

You say they oddly play, but if you think a 4 week break is good then having to cram 4 weeks fixtures in is great, easy fun then carry on.

Many European Leagues Start, and finish later, so no real difference.

More games=More Games it is irrelevant when they play the games, they still play them.

Your "World -Class" players are only World Class next to REAL players, and not together.

Um......ok?

[StevoRobbo]

You say they oddly play, but if you think a 4 week break is good then having to cram 4 weeks fixtures in is great, easy fun then carry on.

Many European Leagues Start, and finish later, so no real difference.

More games=More Games it is irrelevant when they play the games, they still play them.

Your "World -Class" players are only World Class next to REAL players, and not together.

Your "World Class" players are only average next to average Premier League players. Whats your point?

[TJJESSE]

yeah they are. I was Ghana in the world cup with a group of spain, portugal and japan i beat spain 1-0 drew with portugal (though i did have 10 men for 80 mins) and beat japan 3-0 then i played england in the last 16 with the same tactics, and got dominated on possesion and lost 2-0.

Sure people can say it was my tactics but if i can finish top of the group with teams like spain and portugal thier then i would at least give england a good match.

Oh and they went on to win it in my save

[Shadowleech]

This game is FM 2010. Players attributes are not going to be bases on what they did in 2004.

Please stop comparing Wayne Rooney when he was a teenager to Michael Owen when he was arguably in his prime.

And why should Rooney's attributes be based on 10 or so matches that are like 4 years apart?

Rooney was 20 years old in Germany. You can't honestly expect every 20 year old to have a competition like Muller did.

Rooney was coming back from an injury before South Africa just like Torres. They both had horrible competitions and yet you are on here only talking about Rooney?

I compared Owen with Rooney both on their prime form. Rooney was good this season, how was his world cup performance? Owen was 18 in France and 22 in Japan, how was his performance? Actually 1998 was Owen's teenage year and 2010 Rooney was in his prime. Owen scored 2 goals and created 1 pk, what did Rooney do?

If you let me design Owen's stats, yes he pretty much lost his pace now, suffered injury a lot, he's just a good poacher now. But he still deserve high determination and important match because we all saw what could he do in 1998, 2002 and 2004.

As for important matches, of course we need to look on the most important competition first. We can't ignore his awful performance in all his 8 World Cup games. Torres scored 3 goals in Germany and the winning goal 2 years ago. What did Rooney do?

[StevoRobbo]

I compared Owen with Rooney both on their prime form. Rooney was good this season, how was his world cup performance? Owen was 18 in France and 22 in Japan, how was his performance? Actually 1998 was Owen's teenage year and 2010 Rooney was in his prime. Owen scored 2 goals and created 1 pk, what did Rooney do?

If you let me design Owen's stats, yes he pretty much lost his pace now, suffered injury a lot, he's just a good poacher now. But he still deserve high determination and important match because we all saw what could he do in 1998, 2002 and 2004.

As for important matches, of course we need to look on the most important competition first. We can't ignore his awful performance in all his 8 World Cup games. Torres scored 3 goals in Germany and the winning goal 2 years ago. What did Rooney do?

yeh thats it, completely ignore the FACTS ive pointed our.

YOUR right and we are ALL wrong ok. Happy now?

[101east]

I beleive we do...

Ashely Cole is the best left-back in the World IMO,

Yea right

Rooney is a world class player along with Lampard and Gerrard.

Rodney couldnt even score, lamptard is a piece of Sh** and gerrard cant perform consistently at international level..

Then John Terry is simply brilliant.

Hes the most bs iv seen...you need to unjam your head son or the germans will rip england apart again.

I definatly beleive that Berry is better than Spain's holding midfielder Busqests.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL..the germans tore this piece of sh** apart compared to how the spanish player coped.

Joe Cole is also a player who can make something of nothing. So yes, I beleive we do have as much talent as Spain.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL your the reason why we fail so much, believe the hype, think your as good as world champions and your fool to top it off.

[Shadowleech]

yeh thats it, completely ignore the FACTS ive pointed our.

YOUR right and we are ALL wrong ok. Happy now?

Are you trying to ignore the fact that Rooney was never able to stand out in the NO. 1 football competition like a top star should(And many English star did a few times), when his national team needed him to for so many times? And he still got top important match/determination in the game.

[x42bn6]

Are you trying to ignore the fact that Rooney was never able to stand out in the NO. 1 football competition like a top star should(And many English star did a few times), when his national team needed him to for so many times? And he still got top important match/determination in the game.

Because Rooney has stood out in other major competitions, but has failed to stand out in one - one! - competition that comes round every four years, and with a team that is incapable of playing together effectively!

You may as well cherry-pick Ronaldo's World Cup and European Championship matches too, or slam Lionel Messi because he disappointed in this year's World Cup.

Rooney's determination is top-notch - you need to watch him for both club and country to see why, not just one World Cup competition with a terrible England team.

[Shadowleech]

Because Rooney has stood out in other major competitions, but has failed to stand out in one - one! - competition that comes round every four years, and with a team that is incapable of playing together effectively!

You may as well cherry-pick Ronaldo's World Cup and European Championship matches too, or slam Lionel Messi because he disappointed in this year's World Cup.

Rooney's determination is top-notch - you need to watch him for both club and country to see why, not just one World Cup competition with a terrible England team.

He failed to show he's a top star, or even a good striker in 8 matches in 2 World Cups. Like I said many other stars did better than him in ECC but their important match/determination are not as good as him. How come other players could shine in the same bad team like Beckham's free kick, Gerrard's goal/assist and Lampard's shot that should count?

CR? He did very well in 2004 and pretty good in 2008, more than half of Portugal's goals got something to do with him. I believe Rooney was having vacation at that time right?

[Shadowleech]

What other major competition did Rooney play so freaking awesome, enough to let people ignore his awful performance in 8 World Cup matches? He never won UEFA best player, or even the best striker but his important match is higher than many players who won these awards. His performance in ECC is good but not that awesome.

[x42bn6]

What other major competition did Rooney play so freaking awesome, enough to let people ignore his awful performance in 8 World Cup matches? He never won UEFA best player, or even the best striker but his important match is higher than many players who won these awards. His performance in ECC is good but not that awesome.

Just counting goals, how about derby matches and matches against title rivals?

Scored against Chelsea in the Community Shield.

Scored against Arsenal at home.

Scored against City at home.

Scored against City at home in the Carling Cup.

Scored against Arsenal away (and was incredible in that game)

Scored twice against Milan at home and away.

Scored against Liverpool.

Scored against Bayern Munich away.

And again, one-off awards are nothing considering the best players in the world underperformed quite badly at this World Cup.

And you have to watch how he plays - he was very good in the Champions League this season especially in the latter stages, and he did really well in most of the important matches in the Premier League.

[StevoRobbo]

What other major competition did Rooney play so freaking awesome, enough to let people ignore his awful performance in 8 World Cup matches? He never won UEFA best player, or even the best striker but his important match is higher than many players who won these awards. His performance in ECC is good but not that awesome.

Seriously now can you just not take in facts. In 8 world cup games, how many was he 100% fit for? How many European Championship games has he been 100% fit for?

In Euro 2004 Rooney scored 4 goals ( in 2 games ) and briefly became the competitions youngest ever scorer.

World Cup 2006

Following a foot injury in an April 2006 Premier League match, Rooney faced a race to fitness for the 2006 World Cup. England attempted to hasten his recovery with the use of an oxygen tent, which allowed Rooney to enter a group match against Trinidad and Tobago and start the next match against Sweden. However, he never got back into game shape and went scoreless as England bowed out in the quarterfinals, again on penalty kicks.

Conclusion.

In 2006 he was INJURED.

World Cup 2010

Injured and not 100% fit

The only competition he has been fully fit for is Euro 2004 where guess what, HE SCORED. He got INJURED against Portugal in the quarter final and we LOST.

Now dont try to tell me again that Rooney isnt important for England, when 100% fit. In Qualifying for the 2010 world cup he scored 9 goals. 11 including a friendly.

Euro 2004, fully fit Rooney got 4 goals. A fully fit Owen got 1. Rooney was 18 and Owen was 24. Owen at 18 did not score 4 goals in a major tournament.

The point is when Rooney is fullly fit, he's produced for England.

No doubt you'll ignore these facts again and carry on with your pointless rant that Rooney doesn't deserve his stats and Owen was so much better but the facts dont lie and neither does everybody else in this thread.

Your wrong, move on.

[Shadowleech]

Just counting goals, how about derby matches and matches against title rivals?

Scored against Chelsea in the Community Shield.

Scored against Arsenal at home.

Scored against City at home.

Scored against City at home in the Carling Cup.

Scored against Arsenal away (and was incredible in that game)

Scored twice against Milan at home and away.

Scored against Liverpool.

Scored against Bayern Munich away.

And again, one-off awards are nothing considering the best players in the world underperformed quite badly at this World Cup.

And you have to watch how he plays - he was very good in the Champions League this season especially in the latter stages, and he did really well in most of the important matches in the Premier League.

Omg Carling Cup and C Shield. And city is not a really big deal while they got many good players.

Honestly, many strikers in famous club could give this kind of list.

It's not one off award, he never won UEFA best striker, even in 2008 his team won the cup.

[x42bn6]

Omg Carling Cup and C Shield. And city is not a really big deal while they got many good players.

Honestly, many strikers in famous club could give this kind of list.

It's not one off award, he never won UEFA best striker, even in 2008 his team won the cup.

United-City games no big deal? Good grief...

The same goes for games against Chelsea.

And what about the rest of those fixtures, hm?

Feel free to figure out why Rooney didn't win any best striker awards that year by the way; he had a certain Portuguese teammate sucking everything up.

Speaking of UEFA/FIFA awards, the person who won the award the year United won the Champions League had an even worse World Cup, yet nobody doubts his ability to perform in big games.

[StevoRobbo]

Omg Carling Cup and C Shield. And city is not a really big deal while they got many good players.

Honestly, many strikers in famous club could give this kind of list.

It's not one off award, he never won UEFA best striker, even in 2008 his team won the cup.

In most of the games in 2008 Rooney played in beind Ronaldo or on the left wing. Your not even a Unted fan so how can you possibly tell us that watch him week in week out anything.

Ronaldo got best striker in 2008 because thats where he played. Rooney was sacrificed in that formation. How many or Ronaldo's goals did Rooney set up that year?

You have no clue about Rooney or Man Utd so just give up.

[Shadowleech]

Seriously now can you just not take in facts. In 8 world cup games, how many was he 100% fit for? How many European Championship games has he been 100% fit for?

In Euro 2004 Rooney scored 4 goals ( in 2 games ) and briefly became the competitions youngest ever scorer.

World Cup 2006

Following a foot injury in an April 2006 Premier League match, Rooney faced a race to fitness for the 2006 World Cup. England attempted to hasten his recovery with the use of an oxygen tent, which allowed Rooney to enter a group match against Trinidad and Tobago and start the next match against Sweden. However, he never got back into game shape and went scoreless as England bowed out in the quarterfinals, again on penalty kicks.

Conclusion.

In 2006 he was INJURED.

World Cup 2010

Injured and not 100% fit

The only competition he has been fully fit for is Euro 2004 where guess what, HE SCORED. He got INJURED against Portugal in the quarter final and we LOST.

Now dont try to tell me again that Rooney isnt important for England, when 100% fit. In Qualifying for the 2010 world cup he scored 9 goals. 11 including a friendly.

Euro 2004, fully fit Rooney got 4 goals. A fully fit Owen got 1. Rooney was 18 and Owen was 24. Owen at 18 did not score 4 goals in a major tournament.

The point is when Rooney is fullly fit, he's produced for England.

No doubt you'll ignore these facts again and carry on with your pointless rant that Rooney doesn't deserve his stats and Owen was so much better but the facts dont lie and neither does everybody else in this thread.

Your wrong, move on.

Owen scored the goal against Portugal in the knockout stage.

Why must let him be 100% fit? Many players didn't have best form but few of them did as bad as Rooney. Like Totti also suffered injury before 2006 World Cup but. Pirlo this time was also injuried but his performance in that 20 mins is pretty good.

[StevoRobbo]

Owen scored the goal against Portugal in the knockout stage.

Why must let him be 100% fit? Many players didn't have best form but few of them did as bad as Rooney. Like Totti also suffered injury before 2006 World Cup but. Pirlo this time was also injuried but his performance in that 20 mins is pretty good.

Once again ignoring the facts. Your just trolling now.

[x42bn6]

Owen scored the goal against Portugal in the knockout stage.

Why must let him be 100% fit? Many players didn't have best form but few of them did as bad as Rooney. Like Totti also suffered injury before 2006 World Cup but. Pirlo this time was also injuried but his performance in that 20 mins is pretty good.

Ooh goody, from ignoring league form down to concentrating on 20 minutes of one single match!

Why do people focus on small things without looking at the big picture?

[Svenc]

Yea right

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL your the reason why we fail so much, believe the hype, think your as good as world champions and your fool to top it off.

The scary thing is that there is a culture of complacency at work that has long since moved from the stadium stands and spread everywhere. Part of it can be attributed to the rise of the Premiership to the World's most prolific football league, but part of it also appears to gel with the modus operandi of the Football Association, with some of the weirdest antics that were seen this Summer, as well as the habit of never fixing what apparently simply cannot be broken. Should Harry Redknapp ever become their manager, and he was all over the media after another early exit, the FA would implode immediately.

[aderow]

I compared Owen with Rooney both on their prime form. Rooney was good this season, how was his world cup performance? Owen was 18 in France and 22 in Japan, how was his performance? Actually 1998 was Owen's teenage year and 2010 Rooney was in his prime. Owen scored 2 goals and created 1 pk, what did Rooney do?

If you let me design Owen's stats, yes he pretty much lost his pace now, suffered injury a lot, he's just a good poacher now. But he still deserve high determination and important match because we all saw what could he do in 1998, 2002 and 2004.

As for important matches, of course we need to look on the most important competition first. We can't ignore his awful performance in all his 8 World Cup games. Torres scored 3 goals in Germany and the winning goal 2 years ago. What did Rooney do?

No one is ignoring his 8 or so world cup matches.

Why are you ignoring the about the 200 or so matches that he played between each world cup?

Do you honestly watch rooney play?

Also why are you ignoring what I am saying about torres' performance in south africa?

His and rooney's stories have been the same; coming back from injury and not entirely at full fitness and then perfoming sub par.

And yet you still seem to think that a player should have his stats reduced because a player has had 8 bad games.

The world cup is important to a nations pride. It is full of prestige. But it is not practical or logical for someone to determine how good a player is on 7 games when they play another 40 or 50 every single year.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[StevoRobbo]

Another one for you Shadowleech.

Euro 2004 Team Of The Tournament

Wayne Rooney, no Michael Owen. Fancy that eh!

[x42bn6]

Another one for you Shadowleech.

Euro 2004 Team Of The Tournament

Wayne Rooney, no Michael Owen. Fancy that eh!

Yeah, but Michael Owen was awesome in the first 3 minutes against Portugal, which is really important!

[StevoRobbo]

Yeah, but Michael Owen was awesome in the first 3 minutes against Portugal, which is really important!

Oh yes forgot about that. Sorry :o

[StevoRobbo]

The only thing I will say for Owen (and Rooney hasnt had the chance.....yet) is that in a major tournament penalty shootout, Owen has always stepped up (and scored), but then again he's a striker, he should step up and take one.

[aderow]

Are you trying to ignore the fact that Rooney was never able to stand out in the NO. 1 football competition like a top star should(And many English star did a few times), when his national team needed him to for so many times? And he still got top important match/determination in the game.

You know what? This is completely pointless. Ive told you multiple times why Rooney's stats are the way they are yet you still sit there and completely ignore these facts.

Forget the 8 world cup games. Forget the 200 games that he's played for Man United.

Go and actually watch him play.

Pay attention to what he does on and off the ball.

Count how much time he spends sprinting around. Watch how many times he chases down opponents. Watch how much space he covers.

Watch how quickly he can get angry. Count how many dumb and rash challenges he makes.

I've seen Rooney literally become a second left back, help out evra to win the ball back, then sprint the entire length of the field and score at the other end. (aka high work rate)

Ive seen Rooney swing his foot at an opponent who was on the ground.....in a FRIENDLY

For goodness sake he got sent off against fulham for throwing the ball at the ref! (aka very high aggression)

If you were to take the time to go to the tactics screen, and look what attributes are key for the attacking roles, you will see that neither of these makes rooney a better goal scorer. Those other players that you mentioned (Villa, Ronaldo, Forlan, Messi), are higher in those attributes that are key in goal scoring. They are all better dribblers than rooney,they have higher finishing than rooney, they have higher anticipation than rooney, and they have higher composure than rooney.

What in that makes you believe that rooney is better at goal scoring than these other players?

[StevoRobbo]

You know what? This is completely pointless. Ive told you multiple times why Rooney's stats are the way they are yet you still sit there and completely ignore these facts.

Forget the 8 world cup games. Forget the 200 games that he's played for Man United.

Go and actually watch him play.

Pay attention to what he does on and off the ball.

Count how much time he spends sprinting around. Watch how many times he chases down opponents. Watch how much space he covers.

Watch how quickly he can get angry. Count how many dumb and rash challenges he makes.

I've seen Rooney literally become a second left back, help out evra to win the ball back, then sprint the entire length of the field and score at the other end. (aka high work rate)

Ive seen Rooney swing his foot at an opponent who was on the ground.....in a FRIENDLY

For goodness sake he got sent off against fulham for throwing the ball at the ref! (aka very high aggression)

If you were to take the time to go to the tactics screen, and look what attributes are key for the attacking roles, you will see that neither of these makes rooney a better goal scorer. Those other players that you mentioned (Villa, Ronaldo, Forlan, Messi), are higher in those attributes that are key in goal scoring. They are all better dribblers than rooney,they have higher finishing than rooney, they have higher anticipation than rooney, and they have higher composure than rooney.

What in that makes you believe that rooney is better at goal scoring than these other players?

Exactly what he did away at Arsenal last season. Won the ball in a left back position, played nani through then sprinted 3/4 of the pitch and scored.

But games against Arsenal (away!) arent 'big games' are they so I guess it doesnt count right?

[jod123]

Omg Carling Cup and C Shield. And city is not a really big deal while they got many good players.

Honestly, many strikers in famous club could give this kind of list.

It's not one off award, he never won UEFA best striker, even in 2008 his team won the cup.

He was the joint 2nd highest scorer in Euro 2004.

It is funny how x42bn6 mentioned a list of matches (as I did further up) and you pick out the Carling Cup and C Shield as they don't have a massive level of importance but you forget about the others. Is the Champions League not important?

Also why are matches against City not that big a deal?

[PhroX]

Are you trying to ignore the fact that Rooney was never able to stand out in the NO. 1 football competition like a top star should(And many English star did a few times), when his national team needed him to for so many times? And he still got top important match/determination in the game.

To be honest, these days the Champions League is probably the "NO. 1 football competition", and Rooney has performed well in that on a fair few occasions...

[edgar555]

I can't believe this train wreck of a thread is still going. It hasn't been about FM for about a page and a half now.

Just sums up the half assed modding that GD has to suffer.

[east londoner]

So in your opinion Shadowleech, 1 bad competiton means he's suddenly a bad player? There's to many factors to consider before saying that sort of statement,which to be fair most have been said to you by everyone else you just don't wanna listen to the truth.

If you look at the England games at the W/C, in my opinion, our midfield ended up sitting so deep that the gap between the midfield and the strikers was huge, and Rooney will never just stand at the top of the park and wait for service,he likes to drop deep and battle for the ball which is what he does well hence the reason he has high determination,team work and work rate in game.

You can't compare Messi or Ronaldo to Rooney because there so different, Messi is your flair player, he will create chances for himself and others out of nothing but do you ever see him busting a gut to close down players in his own half? Ronaldo is the same, he likes to take players on,use a bit of skill but gets easily frustrated when he loses the ball and when chasing back normaly concedes a foul.

[aderow]

I can't believe this train wreck of a thread is still going. It hasn't been about FM for about a page and a half now.

Just sums up the half assed modding that GD has to suffer.

For what its worth I've tried to keep it about FM

Cant have people going around saying that rooney's mental attributes should be reduced now can I

[edgar555]

For what its worth I've tried to keep it about FM

Cant have people going around saying that rooney's mental attributes should be reduced now can I

I recognise that mate and no we can't have loonies saying things that they clearly don't know enough about, however I do think that its become a wind up, especially with all the scots pitching in, its just a dig at England thread now. We don't need those, the last one earned me my infraction.