Some constructive criticism for SI et al

[CCFC 1927]

where is that conclusive proof

sorry didn't notice the wink:eek:

[backpackant]

Seems to have a lot of replies, and most of what you say is probably just common sense, things for SI to aspire to, but I'll just add my POV to a couple of things.

1. Plenty of answers already, but I'm of the mind: who cares? Patience is a virtue.

2. A lot of people do beta test, but the process isn't an exact science, as SI have stated on a number of occasions. When user "a" says there's too many long-shots and SI fix that, user "b" may come along and say, "hey, look at all the defence-splitting passes that causes; people are going to be bleeding through their eyes and complaining of "superkeepers" if you keep this up". And since the game HAS to go out on a particular date, the faults may not all get sorted. Of course, they could take two years off to develop it and still there would be tweaks to be made.

3. The game will never, ever please everyone. Release the beta to the world 5 weeks ahead of release and you get, what, a week before the code has to go to the supplier? Release it 10 weeks early so everyone in the world becomes a beta tester and what do you get? A million people logging very obvious bugs, plus a million more arguing over whether something is a bug or their tactics. I can see why you'd think this was a good idea but it's just not practical.

4. I'm sure SI never thought of improving the match engine ;-)

5. Yes. I think most people will agree.

6. SI don't always know the exact date themselves. Think about it. A load of work goes into the patch, then an hour before it's released someone goes, "Hang on a moment, goalies shouldn't do handstands during a penalty shootout", and the dev guys have to find the bit of code that works goalies and fix it without knocking on more problems further down the line. Imagine if SI said, "10th Feb" for the 10.3 release then on the 9th they say, "actually, it's gonna be the 17th, we need another week because of some acrobatic bug". The forums would erupt in ****s and some very insulting things aimed at SI.

A rough estimate is sufficient for all but the most impatient. Perhaps reading a) the forum rules and b) reading any stickies with the word "patch" in them before posting will result in fewer people being flamed for asking repeated questions that litter the forums.

7. Already covered.

8. Another one they probably never thought of. Every PC is different. On 10.1 I had a mind-numbing number of crashes. 10.2 solved this but for others it got made worse. I agree they should work hard at it but doubt you'll get perfection.

9. Umm. Yeah. They never thought of that one either.

Hope 10.3 works out for you. Whenever it arrives.

[FrazT]

Seems to have a lot of replies, and most of what you say is probably just common sense, things for SI to aspire to, but I'll just add my POV to a couple of things.

1. Plenty of answers already, but I'm of the mind: who cares? Patience is a virtue.

2. A lot of people do beta test, but the process isn't an exact science, as SI have stated on a number of occasions. When user "a" says there's too many long-shots and SI fix that, user "b" may come along and say, "hey, look at all the defence-splitting passes that causes; people are going to be bleeding through their eyes and complaining of "superkeepers" if you keep this up". And since the game HAS to go out on a particular date, the faults may not all get sorted. Of course, they could take two years off to develop it and still there would be tweaks to be made.

3. The game will never, ever please everyone. Release the beta to the world 5 weeks ahead of release and you get, what, a week before the code has to go to the supplier? Release it 10 weeks early so everyone in the world becomes a beta tester and what do you get? A million people logging very obvious bugs, plus a million more arguing over whether something is a bug or their tactics. I can see why you'd think this was a good idea but it's just not practical.

4. I'm sure SI never thought of improving the match engine ;-)

5. Yes. I think most people will agree.

6. SI don't always know the exact date themselves. Think about it. A load of work goes into the patch, then an hour before it's released someone goes, "Hang on a moment, goalies shouldn't do handstands during a penalty shootout", and the dev guys have to find the bit of code that works goalies and fix it without knocking on more problems further down the line. A rough estimate is sufficient for all but the most impatient. Perhaps reading a) the forum rules and b) reading any stickies with the word "patch" in them before posting will result in fewer people being flamed for asking repeated questions that litter the forums.

7. Already covered.

8. Another one they probably never thought of. Every PC is different. On 10.1 I had a mind-numbing number of crashes. 10.2 solved this but for others it got made worse. I agree they should work hard at it but doubt you'll get perfection.

9. Umm. Yeah. They never thought of that one either.

Hope 10.3 works out for you. Whenever it arrives.

Good post:thup:

[Wakers]

I think that SI have taken a step in the right direction with FM10. There are still some issues that need to be worked out, and some way of improving development on the match engine as the same issues seem to keep cropping up in a cycle - one on ones for instance. In one version of 08 it was almost impossible for strikers to score from them, then it was fixed until 10.2.

The same can be said for marking problems and the ability of defenders in general.

I won't be too harsh on their product until the next release, because I think that they got in such a rut with 08 and 09 that it was always going to be impossible to completely solve in one release.

[Nobby_McDonald]

1.Allow retail outlets only to sell to ensure game is available to all and sundry on the same day;

2.Avail of select users of this forum in the testing process;

3.Release the beta version/demo 4-5 weeks before scheduled release to allow for greater feedback and to allow bugs to be dealt with as far as possible before final release;

4.Improve the match engine and please ensure reported issues in FM2010 are not continued in FM11 - so, for example, corners, penalties, one on ones are improved.

5.Don't add many new features. Add in "floodlights" for midweek games, maybe allow an option to use a skin which your club's stadium (or colours or something else) to be used as background. Add more variety to press conferences. Improve transfer markets - my suggestion would be for a manager to be able to offer a list of targets to his chairman who can do the negotiations. Allow some more flexibility for budgets if a "star signing" is imminent. Improve team talks - why can't the captain do them? Modify morale/motivation and confidence to be more in line with common sense. Simplify tactics so that Chelsea don't get beat at home to Wolves because the AI has figured out how Chelsea play (respect to Wolves). Bring more focus back on player quality. Basically, however, overall the focus should be to stick to what is there and improve it.

6.If people want to know when a patch will be released, tell them, using your own discretion as to who is/isn't trolling.

7.Clarify more clearly the necessary graphics/requirements at the point of sale;

8.Fix the crash defects;

9.Put your consumers first.

1. Anywhere that sells it is a retail outlet.

2. Anybody can apply to be a tester.

5. Don't add many more features? You've listed a few yourself!

6. Have you seen how many ask when a patch is being released when it clearly states somewhere on the forum (whether in a sticky or header) when the next patch is expected or likely to be released?

7. I fail to see where clarity lacks.

8. I've not had a single crash yet, on any patch of FM2010.

9. They do. How many other companies release patches months after release?

[Full of Ham FC]

I suggest instead of waiting for patch 3 to make the game good, do it with patch 1.

When the game comes out is when people have the most incentive to play. Summer transfers finished, leagues just starting, etc. Not in Feburary after half the season is already done and things start to get outdated.

[s33r]

I suggest instead of waiting for patch 3 to make the game good, do it with patch 1.

When the game comes out is when people have the most incentive to play. Summer transfers finished, leagues just starting, etc. Not in Feburary after half the season is already done and things start to get outdated.

That would be a wonderful thing to happen but not every bug gets noticed in that time frame. Not only that but a bug fixed in patch one can sometimes have a knock on effect that wasn't anticipated. Getting back to the point about different PC configurations, the bugs that these cause won't be noticed until after release or after a patch so again, another may be needed.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it is nigh on impossible to release one cure-all patch.

[crouchaldinho]

The same tired old arguments going on in GD then.

I think FM10 is one of the best versions yet.

I didn't agree with a single thing in the opening post really. Half of it already happens and the other half was either irrelevant or has already been discussed to death.

[Tez01979]

I would like to know op is when you started buying computer games. Now not personal attack here but it seems to me your not used to all this bugginess, crash happening state of affairs you are fininding yourself in. This is the way it's been for a decade now.

Game gets released -with or wothout bugs for many different systems.

Patch gets released - fiixes some people bugs causes issues with others due to computer set ups.

second patch get released (maybe as sometimes games never got finished) more often than not fixes a lot of issues.

My point being is that theres nothing you can o about it when it comes to PC games. You shuldnt expect it to be "finished" let alone bug free. yes it's annoying, yea it's frustrating but your sure as hell not helping the situation by rumbling on about it and saying your not going to buy next years version, this appreoch doesn't help anyone. If you want the game finisnhed or at least bug free buy an x-box.

One other thing who was this second opinino given by as i hope you didn't pay him money cos he ripped you off.

P.S over a decade doesn't mean i'm talking about this game in paticular i meant all games.

[İbrahimoviç]

good post,everyone should read

[Wakers]

Tez is right to a point, but when they offer a game that is supports Macs, and then they can't get it to run on them without crashing (seeing as there is a very limited number of setups), then there really is something wrong. That's happened two or three years in a row now.

[roykela]

I'm very much into this No. 8.

I just wonder why FM09 never crashed for me but FM10 does, on the same computer, which meets the requirements with ease; whether you run all leagues or 1 league....doesn't make a difference.

And also....why is it that FM10 is the only game/software that's got problems running on my computer?!

So basically, for me personally, it's....what is so much different with 10, compared to 09, that makes it crash?!

So for my personal experience, i agree with OPs point No. 8. But it's easier said than done.

As others also stated. No software will work 100% on all computers.

I just wonder what changed, under the hood, from one years version to another. Because there's definitely a change there that my computer doesn't like.

[Tubey84]

This is the most confusing thread of all time. I now have a phobia of lists :'(

[Shanksie1975]

I'd have to agree with backpackant .

[FrazT]

good post' date='everyone should read[/quote']

Thanks for reopening this dead thread- oh, hold on a minute, you have been banned- I wonder why?

Closed.