The Manchester United Thread 2007/08 - Home of the Champions

[Gooders86]

you tart.

[Nick OGS20]

ergh. the nerves get cranked up another level for the next 16 days then.

[gavnoble]

Damn - really tought Newcastle would take a point today and they should have done if Owen had taken the two gilt edge chances in the first half.

Suddenly I have the feeling its going to be 1995 all over again...

[SLO_Fila]

Originally posted by gavnoble:

Damn - really tought Newcastle would take a point today and they should have done if Owen had taken the two gilt edge chances in the first half.

Suddenly I have the feeling its going to be 1995 all over again...

Believe in the BRUCIE BONUS!

[something less annoying]

Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by something less annoying:

I think yesterday was a culmination of Nani's attitude throughout the season and that he deserves a lot of what he's getting.

bullsh*t, although i'm not surprised to see you saying that as you've been on his back all f**king season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nowhere near being true. I couldn't praise him highly enough when he put that run of performances together just before his injury.

He's a very good player at his best, he'll get better, but surely nobody can deny that he's also a whiny little bitch and seriously needs to grow up.

[Mika]

Beware the Brucie Backstab

[BBB]

heh, emailed the MEN after that story about the lads that were doing it for £210, just rang me and will be in there

[sebsy]

Originally posted by Coldberg:

We need a VDS chant. To the tune of 'Starman' by Bowie if possible.

OMC, How Bizarre surely the best choice.

[Coldberg]

Yeah wouldn't be too happy about having to present my match ticket everytime someone asked me to show my visa tbh.

[mark g]

Originally posted by gavnoble:

Suddenly I have the feeling its going to be 1995 all over again...

That'd be fine. We only draw, but our rivals get beat, job's a good 'un.

[Nick OGS20]

Originally posted by Coldberg:

Yeah wouldn't be too happy about having to present my match ticket everytime someone asked me to show my visa tbh.

Mart will have had his robbed by an opportunist ruskie within about 10 minutes of crossing the border.

[gavnoble]

Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gavnoble:

Suddenly I have the feeling its going to be 1995 all over again...

That'd be fine. We only draw, but our rivals get beat, job's a good 'un. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't see any other result other than Chelsea beating Bolton at the Bridge. This Bolton team doesn't have the same fight about them as under Big Fat Sam.

We hvae to win and I believe we have more than enough to beat Wigan but it all depends on how our players cope with the pressure.

[The_Fish]

I fully expect a Wigan side full of youngsters to be playing. No way would Bruce want Chelsea to win the title.

[mark g]

Originally posted by gavnoble:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gavnoble:

Suddenly I have the feeling its going to be 1995 all over again...

That'd be fine. We only draw, but our rivals get beat, job's a good 'un. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't see any other result other than Chelsea beating Bolton at the Bridge. This Bolton team doesn't have the same fight about them as under Big Fat Sam.

We hvae to win and I believe we have more than enough to beat Wigan but it all depends on how our players cope with the pressure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 100%, Gav, mine wasn't a serious post, i was deliberately taking yours too literally.

[mark g]

Originally posted by The_Fish:

I fully expect a Wigan side full of youngsters to be playing. No way would Bruce want Chelsea to win the title.

No reason for them not to have a good side out, to avoid accusations of bias if nothing else. Bruce is too professional to do something like that, i feel.

[James B]

Originally posted by gavnoble:

Can't see any other result other than Chelsea beating Bolton at the Bridge. This Bolton team doesn't have the same fight about them as under Big Fat Sam.

we have recently

however much we fight, the gulf in class is always going to be too much

[ACou2000]

would be great if he just sent out a joke side under strict instruction not to tackle though

I mean could anything really be done about it, he could say he wanted to give them a run-out now they were safe etc

do it imo

[Nick OGS20]

yeah, there's no chance in hell it's anything other than a practically full-strength side. there'd be far too many ramifications for Bruce (potential FA sanctions, reputation would take a hit etc) if it were anything else.

Bruce would prefer us to win the title i'm sure but he's a winner himself, he won't be sending a team out to lose the game. whether he'll be that gutted if they do i dunno, but any suggestions that we only have to turn up are ridiculous. wouldn't surprise me if it's a really hard game.

[sebsy]

In reality, we should have enough to beat Wigan, but no match in the Premier League is ever guaranteed, look at our narrow 1-0 over Derby.

Point is, unless we have one of our rare off days, we should beat them comfortably. It's completely in our hands to throw away.

Best end to season for years, though, when was the last time it went down to the final day?

[blueglobefootball123]

Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

yeah, there's no chance in hell it's anything other than a practically full-strength side. there'd be far too many ramifications for Bruce (potential FA sanctions, reputation would take a hit etc) if it were anything else.

Bruce would prefer us to win the title i'm sure but he's a winner himself, he won't be sending a team out to lose the game. whether he'll be that gutted if they do i dunno, but any suggestions that we only have to turn up are ridiculous. wouldn't surprise me if it's a really hard game.

Particulary with the Wigan pitch, that'll restrict some of Utd's quick passing game I'd imagine

[ericcantona7]

Originally posted by sebsy:

In reality, we should have enough to beat Wigan, but no match in the Premier League is ever guaranteed, look at our narrow 1-0 over Derby.

Point is, unless we have one of our rare off days, we should beat them comfortably. It's completely in our hands to throw away.

Best end to season for years, though, when was the last time it went down to the final day?

1999

shame there's no FA Cup Final this year.

[blueglobefootball123]

Originally posted by sebsy:

In reality, we should have enough to beat Wigan, but no match in the Premier League is ever guaranteed, look at our narrow 1-0 over Derby.

Point is, unless we have one of our rare off days, we should beat them comfortably. It's completely in our hands to throw away.

Best end to season for years, though, when was the last time it went down to the final day?

Was it when Blackburn won the title?

I seem to remember Sky showing both games simulataniously, cant remember it going to the last day of the season since?

[blueglobefootball123]

[Nick OGS20]

Manchester United winger Nani will apologise to his team-mates at training on Tuesday after his reckless headbutt on Lucas Neill incurred the wrath of referee Mike Riley and manager Sir Alex Ferguson, and led to the Portugal international making a hasty exit from Old Trafford.

Nani did not join in the traditional lap of honour with his colleagues after the 4-1 win against West Ham and will be hoping his actions do not cost him a place in the Champions League final against Chelsea.

Ferguson's reaction to the Portugal international's first-half indiscretion has cast serious doubts over whether the former Sporting starlet will be included in Moscow as he is suspended for the crucial trip to Wigan Athletic and the first two games of next season.

"Believe me, it was really hard for me," Nani said in a statement on his agent's official website. "That moment, I just wanted to disappear, and I did just that.

"And, for that, I would also like to say to the supporters and the club that I'm sorry.

"Since I left the stadium right away, I couldn't be with my team at the end.

"But next Tuesday I will be at the club to redeem myself for that mistake and tell all of them that I'm sorry for what I have done and apologise for my behaviour."

United ended up coasting to a 4-1 win against West Ham on Saturday, even though they were down to ten men for the entire second period, but Ferguson's side still require a win at Wigan next Sunday to clinch the title.

Nani added: "I publicly want to tell [everyone] that I'm deeply sorry, firstly to my team-mates for the extra effort over 60 minutes, secondly to my coaches and finally to United's supporters, who have been great to me.

"I know my act was heedless but I would also like to say that I was provoked and hit. This is not an excuse but this was exactly what happened.

"I am sorry for what I have done and I must thank my team-mates for being able to secure a win of major importance for us."

Assistant manager Carlos Queiroz commented: "We cannot tolerate situations that may compromise the player, the team and the image of the club.

"It is strange that the referee has not seen the clip round the ears that Neill gave him but they must be prepared for these difficult moments and not react.

"It was a response to Neill's aggression but we cannot excuse it."

bit of a poor show if he's gone straight home, although it may well have been at Fergie's request/advice i suppose. fair play for the apology though.

[alilaw]

Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gavnoble:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gavnoble:

Suddenly I have the feeling its going to be 1995 all over again...

That'd be fine. We only draw, but our rivals get beat, job's a good 'un. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't see any other result other than Chelsea beating Bolton at the Bridge. This Bolton team doesn't have the same fight about them as under Big Fat Sam.

We hvae to win and I believe we have more than enough to beat Wigan but it all depends on how our players cope with the pressure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 100%, Gav, mine wasn't a serious post, i was deliberately taking yours too literally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not like you.

[pjburrage]

incurred the wrath of referee Mike Riley

Had to laugh at that.

[mark g]

United play for the double on back of £58m losses last year

David Conn

The Guardian, Tuesday May 6 2008

With Manchester United powering to a probable second successive Premier League title and ready for a Champions League final, it appears that life at Old Trafford could hardly be rosier, but the club's accounts, now published in full, detail a significantly bleaker picture of the club's finances under the ownership of the Florida-based Glazer family.

Before the family's 2005 takeover, United prided itself on being the only Premier League club regularly to make a significant profit, to have cash in the bank and, unlike all the others, no debts. After the leveraged takeover, the Glazer family loaded their borrowings on to the club and the position has changed. The accounts for the company that the Glazers use to own United show total borrowings, in the year to June 30 2007, were up to £666m, by far the highest of any English football club, ever. The total owed to all creditors, including the banks, was up to £764m and includes £56m that United owe to other clubs in transfer fee instalments on players Sir Alex Ferguson has signed.

The total interest payable by the club on its borrowings was £81m, although only £42m was actually paid. The rest, which accrued on the millions owed to hedge funds, is allowed to roll up until the whole amount has to be repaid in 2016, or, alternatively, until the Glazers can refinance it. A total of £152m is currently owed to hedge funds, at 14.25% interest a year - £22m from 2007-08. Last year the Glazers tried to refinance but were unable to strike a deal with financial institutions, and a spokesman acknowledged that the credit crunch is making it more difficult now.

David Gill, United's chief executive, announced the headline results back in January, stressing that United's phenomenal money-making power, with 76,000 crowding into Old Trafford and the Premier League's huge TV rights deals, had produced record income of £210m and operating profits of £75m. The full accounts show, however, that even though United made a further £11m profit from buying and selling players, the interest and other accounting provisions pushed United into recording an overall loss of £58m.

The accounts also reveal that by far the highest proportion of income, £92.5m, is still generated on home match days, and although the club has announced more modest ticket price rises for next season than for the previous two, supporters groups continue to protest that they are paying the debts of a takeover they opposed. "It is outrageous that supporters are paying the huge interest on these borrowings, which are worrying for the club's future," said Sean Bones of the Manchester United Supporters Trust. "Our money is pouring out to pay the Glazers, while they have not put a penny into the club."

The spokesman for the Glazer family pointed to the club's success on the field, and in generating income off it, as evidence of the family's competent management. "The family continue to run United as a business," he said. "Their model is to encourage success on the pitch by backing Sir Alex Ferguson, and to grow revenues off it. The interest payments are more than covered by the cash generated."

[alilaw]

Haha, and I wonder how well reported this will be?

We'd better enjoy it as much as we can at the moment really, no telling if / when it'll all go massively tits up Leeds style.

[Pickles]

Well that was easier than I thought it'd be on Saturday! Nani a fcuking idiot, but he'll grow up eventually. 40 goals for Ronny \o/

That's about all I have to say on the game. All on this week now. Please roll over and die now Brucie, you're safe after all.

[pjburrage]

Haha Brilliant!!!

By the way we'll show a massive profit in 2016 by reversing the accrual on the interest.

[James07?]

I know David Conn is paid to put a negative spin on these things but I don't see how anyone can fail to be scared witless by those figures.

[BBB]

don't care really, we're gonna do the double \o/

[mark g]

What if you're already witless?

[BBB]

daytrippers and the like won't care as long as we're buying players and winning stuff.

Shame really.

[mark g]

Originally posted by BBB:

daytrippers and the like won't care as long as we're buying players and winning stuff.

Shame really.

How long will we be able to keep buying players when we're haemorraghing money at that rate?

[ericcantona7]

Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB:

daytrippers and the like won't care as long as we're buying players and winning stuff.

Shame really.

How long will we be able to keep buying players when we're haemorraghing money at that rate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

until the total debt level is higher than the value of the club, then we do a Leeds.

[BBB]

Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB:

daytrippers and the like won't care as long as we're buying players and winning stuff.

Shame really.

How long will we be able to keep buying players when we're haemorraghing money at that rate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The moronic element I mention will not realise that we're plunging further into debt and then it all goes tits up.

[James07?]

Do the accounts show if the Glazer's have taken money out of the club themselves. If they are not making any money 'day to day' I assume the game plan has always been based on how and when they sell up?

[pjburrage]

The Balance Sheet will be key to the debt level, the papers always seem to report P&L figures, but rarely Balance Sheet figures. Two companies posting a £50m loss, one of which has £100m Reserves, the other no Reserves, one of them is okay, the other is in trouble.

[pjburrage]

Interesting figure from the Accounts of the Football Club (Not Red United Limited or Manchester United Ltd which are seperate companies within the group), the Ticket Office employed more people in the year to 30th June 2007 than 30th June 2006.

Least they realised they need to employ more people to handle all the complaints.

[BBB]

tbf whenever i've rang lately, they've been able to answer within a minute, not today though, tis rammed.

[Guest sav112]

I’ll have to forgive myself here….. I wish you all the best of Luck in the CL final. I like the Chelsea class and style but being a Scot I so want to see Sir Alex win it again.

[BBB]

Best of luck in the Uefa cup final

[Nick OGS20]

Chelsea have class and style?

i assume that David Conn article will be completely ignored by those who said we overreacted to the takeover and continue to do so.

[Scatter]

tbh, i always thought the takeover could go only one of two ways really.

a complete asset strip and the sell on for whatever they can get; or tread water hoping that the increase in the clubs value would garner a significant enough profit a few years down the line.

the asset strip looks like it's out - unless the value of the club declines considerably - so i reckon it'll only be a matter of time before the glazers sell up. two, three years tops (an educated guess without knowing the precise numbers involved i admit).

think we should be just as worried about who they sell out to tbh. our scouse friends proof positive of that...

[ericcantona7]

I think the best way for them to sell would be to float again, unless they can find some middle eastern or asian buyer, who probably wouldn't be willing to pay what the club is worth, or else they aren't going to make any profit from it. Whereas they could stick us back on the stock exchange, where the club would realise its 'true' value, plus a bit more probably as fans will surely attempt to buy up a proportion of the shares thus inflating the prices.

Problem is if they float too early then it makes them look like complete failures, whereas they could do it in a couple of years and claim it's a "business decision" etc, and no due to the pressure of the debt, and as long as the $ stays low then they'll probably make a nice profit.

[mark g]

Originally posted by Scatter:

the asset strip looks like it's out - unless the value of the club declines considerably - so i reckon it'll only be a matter of time before the glazers sell up. two, three years tops (an educated guess without knowing the precise numbers involved i admit).

An educated guess? What would you know about trying to run a business that has been so saddled with debt that your only real option is to hope that some mug will come and buy it off you, even at a vastly reduced price, before it all goes belly up?

[Scatter]

they'd have to be running the club at an operating profit to float. and at this rate, it looks like the only way to do that would be to clear the debt.

even if they transfer the debt out of the club and onto one of the holding companies first ofc...

[Scatter]

Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

the asset strip looks like it's out - unless the value of the club declines considerably - so i reckon it'll only be a matter of time before the glazers sell up. two, three years tops (an educated guess without knowing the precise numbers involved i admit).

An educated guess? What would you know about trying to run a business that has been so saddled with debt that your only real option is to hope that some mug will come and buy it off you, even at a vastly reduced price, before it all goes belly up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

plenty.

and i'm going to succeed

[Scatter]

Originally posted by Scatter:

unless they transfer the debt out of the club and onto one of the holding companies first ofc...