English Premier Division Data [Discussion]

Hi.

First of all: thank you, as always, for all the work you guys in the Research department do every year.

Secondly, this isn't really a suggestion, but more of a question - why was Mohamed Salah's Consistency attribute set so low this year?

By any measurable metric, he's the most consistent Liverpool player as well as one of the most consistent forwards in world football over the past five years. That argument is supported not just by opinions of football experts and other footballers, but by his statistics as well.

And yet his Consistency attribute is on the same level or even lower than all of his Liverpool compatriots in offense (Jota, Diaz, Darwin e.t.c.).

So, was that an oversight or was it done intentionally? And if it was done intentionally, is there any particular reasoning behind it? I'd love to hear it.

Thank you again!

Edited October 19, 2023 by ClarkKent1

Newcastle fan here, just some early thoughts and suggestions! I'm pretty happy with the player attributes from last season, but I don't agree with the stats of some of the transfers in:

Harvey Barnes: We signed him for £38m primarily because he's a goalscoring winger. He scored 13 goals in the league last season and has scored 28 league goals in only 78 starts in the past 3 seasons, which is insane for a mid-table winger. Put him through on goal and his shooting is incredible, so I find it very strange how he only has 12 finishing & off-the-ball, and his composure has reduced to 11? A number of articles/videos have also been made showing that he doesn't really beat his man that often, but prefers to one-two around them instead, so I would definitely have this added in as a trait. He's also quite good at winning headers for a winger - Fbref have him in the 85th percentile for number of aerials won and 59th percentile for % aerials won, which suggests he should have above 10 jumping reach. I think he needs a bit of a rework.

Lewis Hall: He's an England U21 international and was one of the brightest sparks in his appearances for Chelsea last season, scoring huge numbers with his tackles, interceptions, take-ons, chances created etc. so much so we're buying him for up to £35m. Look at his Fbref profile below. His in-game stats make him look like a lower Championship level player, which I just don't understand. In-game he is at least competent in 8 positions, some of which make no sense. He's definitely not a CB or CAM and hardly has any youth appearances there, so why is he 'accomplished' in them? This is probably eating into his CA rating as well. I'm not sure what his PA rating is just yet, but I'd expect it to be -8.5 minimum. My scouts have him 4* potential in the game, which has me concerned he's still only at -8?

Facilities:
Newcastle currently have average training and youth facilities, adequate academy coaching, and above average youth recruitment. I can understand this under Ashley and when the new owners first took over, but they spent a lot of money improving the faciltiies and are now putting a huge focus on youth development signing players from all over the country and putting scouts in place to recuit players in all parts of the UK and worldwide. Just this summer we've signed youth players from Milan, Birmingham, Port Vale, Shrewsbury, Wolves, Southend and Oldham. We've also put together the below recruitment team already. I would encourage the facilities numbers to be revised up slightly and the recruitment to be revised up considerably based off this.

Expectations:
The board expect Newcastle to finish in the CL spots this season, which is completely unreasonable IMO. I think EL, or even the conference league should be the target at best. I don't think Howe would be under any pressure if Newcastle finished 7th considering the overachievement last season, coupled with UCL football.

I few minor suggestions for the players:

• Isak to have 'comes deep to get the ball' trait and have him accomplished as an AML
• Gordon's work-rate is massive, he's in the 98% percentile for tackles as a winger, I'd suggest a buff to his 14
• Joelinton's heading (16) seems slightly high, as if he'd work as a target-man. He's extremely physical but I don't think this is one of his biggest strengths. I'd instead increase his finishing (11) slightly as he looked much better last season and maybe add the trait 'likes to round the keeper' as he did this when scoring against both West Ham and Spurs last season.
• The recommended best XI has Targett at LB instead of Burn, and it looks as though they have a similar CA. Burn is miles ahead of Targett IRL, so I'd probably suggest a slight nerf to Targett.
• Could review Almiron's positions. I'd argue he isn't a natural CAM now and definitely shouldn't be able to play striker.

Edited October 19, 2023 by george_nufc

1 hour ago, george_nufc said:

Harvey Barnes: We signed him for £38m primarily because he's a goalscoring winger. He scored 13 goals in the league last season and has scored 28 league goals in only 78 starts in the past 3 seasons, which is insane for a mid-table winger. Put him through on goal and his shooting is incredible, so I find it very strange how he only has 12 finishing & off-the-ball, and his composure has reduced to 11? A number of articles/videos have also been made showing that he doesn't really beat his man that often, but prefers to one-two around them instead, so I would definitely have this added in as a trait. He's also quite good at winning headers for a winger - Fbref have him in the 85th percentile for number of aerials won and 59th percentile for % aerials won, which suggests he should have above 10 jumping reach. I think he needs a bit of a rework.

As the Leicester researcher, I'll have set the majority of Barnes' attributes as they are at the moment, so happy to chip in here.

I'd recommend judging his attributes after you've played the game for a while - if you're seeing he's scored too few goals in your saves (or winning too few headers, etc.), please get back in touch and the Newcastle researcher can review those numbers. The attributes are designed to produce a fair and reasonable representation of the player's real life profile in the game's match engine - judging individual numbers against the 1-20 scale is not what the research is designed to achieve.

But more generally - this is a player who took an awful lot of chances last season, missed a fair amount, scored a few others, and more often than not, didn't really do a great deal else to support his team's cause. 'His shooting is incredible' is frankly not something I would support, really, having watched him since he played in central midfield in Leicester's academy at the age of 16. A 12 for Off The Ball is in my book quite accurate, given his attacking movement and positional play is the glaring weakness in his general game, and cost Leicester a great deal both going forwards (Off The Ball) and backwards (Positioning) in the last 18 months.

I'd also add this is a player who has scored 1 Premier League goal this season and has mostly sat on the bench behind Anthony Gordon, thus far. I think there'd be a much greater argument to rate him higher if he was actually playing regularly and/or particularly well!

1 hour ago, george_nufc said:

Lewis Hall: He's an England U21 international and was one of the brightest sparks in his appearances for Chelsea last season, scoring huge numbers with his tackles, interceptions, take-ons, chances created etc. so much so we're buying him for up to £35m. Look at his Fbref profile below. His in-game stats make him look like a lower Championship level player, which I just don't understand. In-game he is at least competent in 8 positions, some of which make no sense. He's definitely not a CB or CAM and hardly has any youth appearances there, so why is he 'accomplished' in them? This is probably eating into his CA rating as well. I'm not sure what his PA rating is just yet, but I'd expect it to be -8.5 minimum. My scouts have him 4* potential in the game, which has me concerned he's still only at -8?

 

Point one on Lewis Hall. How long have you been watching before he signed for Newcastle to know he's never played at CB or as a 10? I've watched him play at centre back and a 10 and I've barely seen him play at all compared to the Chelsea researcher who watches an incredible amount of Chelsea academy football. 

A -8 is still an incredibly good potential. The amount of players that hit the top end of a -85 in their is not that high at all, it's a world class level and again, the researcher has seen him for a number of years.

 

Regarindg the recruitment setup. All of the above are academy scouts and not first-team scouts and aren't included in game.

7 minutes ago, Tom Elliott said:

As the Leicester researcher, I'll have set the majority of Barnes' attributes as they are at the moment, so happy to chip in here.

I'd recommend judging his attributes after you've played the game for a while - if you're seeing he's scored too few goals in your saves (or winning too few headers, etc.), please get back in touch and the Newcastle researcher can review those numbers. The attributes are designed to produce a fair and reasonable representation of the player's real life profile in the game's match engine - judging individual numbers against the 1-20 scale is not what the research is designed to achieve.

But more generally - this is a player who took an awful lot of chances last season, missed a fair amount, scored a few others, and more often than not, didn't really do a great deal else to support his team's cause. 'His shooting is incredible' is frankly not something I would support, really, having watched him since he played in central midfield in Leicester's academy at the age of 16. A 12 for Off The Ball is in my book quite accurate, given his attacking movement and positional play is the glaring weakness in his general game, and cost Leicester a great deal both going forwards (Off The Ball) and backwards (Positioning) in the last 18 months.

I'd also add this is a player who has scored 1 Premier League goal this season and has mostly sat on the bench behind Anthony Gordon, thus far. I think there'd be a much greater argument to rate him higher if he was actually playing regularly and/or particularly well!

Fair points made. I obviously haven't watched him as much as you, but I've always thought he was a player who was great at running in behind and very clinical in front of goal, but doesn't have the highest technical ability outside of that. His shooting looks a level ahead the majority of other wingers in the league and I think his goal stats back him up there, which is why I suggested the buff. I agree time will tell whether he can replicate his G&A numbers in game, but I'm skeptical, let's see. My point is statistically he's pretty incredible when you compare him to other players in Europe over the past few years, especially considering he was playing for Leicester:

I would take his playing time with a pinch of salt however. Howe always like to slowly bed his players in, as he's done with Bruno, Botman, Gordon etc. New players generally don't start for the first month or 2.

Barnes then had a severe foot injury at the end of September which has kept him since. He'd probably be starting more games now if he wasn't injured.

18 minutes ago, matt_neil41 said:

Point one on Lewis Hall. How long have you been watching before he signed for Newcastle to know he's never played at CB or as a 10? I've watched him play at centre back and a 10 and I've barely seen him play at all compared to the Chelsea researcher who watches an incredible amount of Chelsea academy football. 

A -8 is still an incredibly good potential. The amount of players that hit the top end of a -85 in their is not that high at all, it's a world class level and again, the researcher has seen him for a number of years.

 

Regarindg the recruitment setup. All of the above are academy scouts and not first-team scouts and aren't included in game.

Transfermarkt is good for reviewing player positions. According to that he's only played 3 games in those positions, I wouldn't say this makes him accomplished there? My main question is should he really be comfortable in 8 positions already?

Regarding the academy scouts - I'm not asking for these to be added into the game, my point is Newcastle have massively invested and stepped up the youth-recruitment to the point where it's likely better than the vast majority of PL clubs outside of the Big 6. Surely 'above-average' isn't high enough?

Just now, george_nufc said:

Transfermarkt is good for reviewing player positions. According to that he's only played 3 games in those positions, I wouldn't say this makes him accomplished there? My main question is should he really be comfortable in 8 positions already?

 

Regarding the academy scouts - I'm not asking for these to be added into the game, my point is Newcastle have massively invested and stepped up the youth-recruitment to the point where it's likely better than the vast majority of PL clubs outside of the Big 6. Surely 'above-average' isn't high enough?

It is half ok for U21's but not any level beneath that. I've looked at games I've seen him play in for the U21's and know that some of the positions are wrong. There will be a reason he has that rating and from someone who has seen him for a very long time.

The rating in the DB looks quite fair to me considering it's only just been established.

Jurrien Timber starting with an ACL injury is inaccurate - he sustained this in the middle of the first game. It's not like the game prevents any of my other defenders getting ACL injuries, so pre-setting his injury just means I can have at best the same injury problems, but possibly even worse. 

Why is Timber injured at the start of the game?
 

thought it was only injuries that happened before the season started and he got his against Forest in the first game of the season 

also 10/12 months seems a bit harsh 

6 hours ago, wesleymcuk said:

Why is Timber injured at the start of the game?
 

thought it was only injuries that happened before the season started and he got his against Forest in the first game of the season 

also 10/12 months seems a bit harsh 

Aug 31st is the cut off rather than the first game of the season.

Couple of Fulham issues:

Luke Harris - his height is 177 cm (https://www.transfermarkt.com/luke-harris/profil/spieler/817612).

Andreas Pereira - I believe he is a better dribbler and passer of the ball in real life than in the game (only 12 for dribbling and passing on BETA, I dont think he warrants such a downgrade from FM23).

Bobby Decordova-Read - his main positions are AMRLC and he can occasionaly cover at RB and WBR so lower his RB and WBR marks (10 or lower perhaps).

Harrison Reed -  I know most sites present his height as 181 cm but eye test tells us he is much shorter. https://www.reddit.com/r/fulhamfc/comments/15xu180/is_reed_adding_4_inches_to_his_height/

Nathan Gardiner is no longer at the club, Goncalo Pedro is a fitness coach in the Fulham staff.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Velibor

Not sure if this is worth starting a new thread over but when testing early access with Arsenal Declan Rice was the existing captain on my save as I could not choose to have Martin Ødegaard as ‘he doesn’t want to take on the role again’.

If this is across all saves, it is not correct as Ødegaard has not been replaced as captain.

2 hours ago, Brentford Alan said:

Aug 31st is the cut off rather than the first game of the season.

Thanks @wesleymcuk and @llama3 

 @Brentford Alan is correct; we set the actual date injured in the database, and the rest is up to the game.  We also set an estimated date of return to full training (if the player is yet to return irl), and sometime in April 2024 would seem reasonable for an injury such as Timber has sustained, wouldn't it?

16 minutes ago, kipper said:

Not sure if this is worth starting a new thread over but when testing early access with Arsenal Declan Rice was the existing captain on my save as I could not choose to have Martin Ødegaard as ‘he doesn’t want to take on the role again’.

If this is across all saves, it is not correct as Ødegaard has not been replaced as captain.

Thanks @kipper - I am not sure what is happening, there, as Ødegaard is set as captain in the database.

28 minutes ago, Pete Sottrel said:

Thanks @wesleymcuk and @llama3 

 @Brentford Alan is correct; we set the actual date injured in the database, and the rest is up to the game.  We also set an estimated date of return to full training (if the player is yet to return irl), and sometime in April 2024 would seem reasonable for an injury such as Timber has sustained, wouldn't it?

Ok thanks did not know that. 
 

Yeah he is still expected back before the end of the season so April seems a good date as most ACL are between 6 (highly doubtful) - 9 months 

Seems to be some odd inconsistencies in Liverpool Legend, Icon, Favoured Personnel statuses

 

Some of the key players of recent years are all missing - Salah, Van Dijk, Alisson - I would argue they should all be Favoured Personnel as a minimum, and Club Legend for Salah

 

But Origi, Henderson and Milner are all listed as Icons or Favoured Personnel. Doesn't make sense to me

 

I thought there might be some reason relating to them still playing at the club, but looking at other clubs active players are included. Seems an oversight

Bruno Fernandes has for a long long long time the wrong team in his supported teams.

The man, his family and friends have said multiple times that he was a Boavista fan growing up and never a Porto fan but for some reason your researchers each year make him a Porto support for some reason. Must be some Porto scout...

Bellow go multiple interviews regarding his team preference and translations: https://www.dn.pt/desporto/sporting/a-historia-de-um-miudo-que-so-quis-ser-jogador-de-futebol-9305881.html

https://bolanarede.pt/especial-bola-na-rede/ultima-hora/presidente-do-boavista-bruno-fernandes-e-o-melhor-jogador-portugues-e-e-boavisteiro/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/bruno-fernandes-manchester-united-training-24556401

 

""Olhe, o meu pai é benfiquista, Eu, a minha mãe e a minha irmã somos portistas, se bem que elas agora dizem que são sportinguistas (risos). O Bruno foi muito cedo para o Boavista, nunca foi de ser do FC Porto, Benfica ou Sporting. Podem não acreditar mas ele é boavisteiro. O Bruno diz que agora é sportinguista, mas ele sempre foi boavisteiro, sei que este é um país em que toda a gente é de Benfica, Sporting ou FC Porto mas é a verdade"" 

"Look, my father is a Benfica fan, me, my mother and my sister are Porto fans, although they now say they are Sporting fans (laughs). Bruno joined Boavista very early on, he was never one to be with FC Porto , Benfica or Sporting. You may not believe it but he is a Boavista fan. Bruno says he's a Sporting fan now, but he's always been a Boavista fan, I know this is a country where everyone is from Benfica, Sporting or FC Porto but it's the truth "

 

The only thing related with Porto was that Porto also wanted him before he went to Boavista but he didn't go there because it was a longer trip. At no point has he ever said he was a Porto fan or anyone in his family said it but your Porto fan researches put it there for some reason.

It's ridiculous how a big player can have the literal RIVAL of his team as his supported teams and you guys never bothered to change it. Waiting to see if they make Tonali a Inter fan or Di Maria a Sporting supporter for some reason

 

 

2 hours ago, Pete Sottrel said:

Thanks @wesleymcuk and @llama3 

 @Brentford Alan is correct; we set the actual date injured in the database, and the rest is up to the game.  We also set an estimated date of return to full training (if the player is yet to return irl), and sometime in April 2024 would seem reasonable for an injury such as Timber has sustained, wouldn't it?

The August 31st cut off doesn’t seem right. Surely that should be the first game of the season, or maybe better indeed first day of preseason. There are pitfalls to a player being injured all pre-season for other injuries too, prevents them building match sharpness, familiarity etc., so they start from the bottom, rather than potentially getting familiar then getting injured. 
 

My squad can only have at best a comparable injury status, if the player selected instead is also injured long term that would be particularly unfair.

23 minutes ago, Gabos79 said:

Bruno Fernandes has for a long long long time the wrong team in his supported teams.

The man, his family and friends have said multiple times that he was a Boavista fan growing up and never a Porto fan but for some reason your researchers each year make him a Porto support for some reason. Must be some Porto scout...

Bellow go multiple interviews regarding his team preference and translations: https://www.dn.pt/desporto/sporting/a-historia-de-um-miudo-que-so-quis-ser-jogador-de-futebol-9305881.html

https://bolanarede.pt/especial-bola-na-rede/ultima-hora/presidente-do-boavista-bruno-fernandes-e-o-melhor-jogador-portugues-e-e-boavisteiro/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/bruno-fernandes-manchester-united-training-24556401

 

""Olhe, o meu pai é benfiquista, Eu, a minha mãe e a minha irmã somos portistas, se bem que elas agora dizem que são sportinguistas (risos). O Bruno foi muito cedo para o Boavista, nunca foi de ser do FC Porto, Benfica ou Sporting. Podem não acreditar mas ele é boavisteiro. O Bruno diz que agora é sportinguista, mas ele sempre foi boavisteiro, sei que este é um país em que toda a gente é de Benfica, Sporting ou FC Porto mas é a verdade"" 

"Look, my father is a Benfica fan, me, my mother and my sister are Porto fans, although they now say they are Sporting fans (laughs). Bruno joined Boavista very early on, he was never one to be with FC Porto , Benfica or Sporting. You may not believe it but he is a Boavista fan. Bruno says he's a Sporting fan now, but he's always been a Boavista fan, I know this is a country where everyone is from Benfica, Sporting or FC Porto but it's the truth "

 

The only thing related with Porto was that Porto also wanted him before he went to Boavista but he didn't go there because it was a longer trip. At no point has he ever said he was a Porto fan or anyone in his family said it but your Porto fan researches put it there for some reason.

It's ridiculous how a big player can have the literal RIVAL of his team as his supported teams and you guys never bothered to change it. Waiting to see if they make Tonali a Inter fan or Di Maria a Sporting supporter for some reason

 

 

 

The Porto researcher wouldn't have access to Fernandes' likes field, so that accusation holds no ground.

I've found two links that say he is (or was when young) a Porto fan in a quick search.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/bruno-fernandes-fun-facts/blt3b0c9a82bc91f3a9#cs6a32ee75c012fc86

https://www.worldsoccer.com/best-of-ws/shooting-star-bruno-fernandes-409563

If it's a mistake, it happens. Please calm the language down, no one has put it in there to sabotage the game.

3 hours ago, Velibor said:

Couple of Fulham issues:

Luke Harris - his height is 177 cm (https://www.transfermarkt.com/luke-harris/profil/spieler/817612).

Andreas Pereira - I believe he is a better dribbler and passer of the ball in real life than in the game (only 12 for dribbling and passing on BETA, I dont think he warrants such a downgrade from FM23).

Bobby Decordova-Read - his main positions are AMRLC and he can occasionaly cover at RB and WBR so lower his RB and WBR marks (10 or lower perhaps).

Harrison Reed -  I know most sites present his height as 181 cm but eye test tells us he is much shorter. https://www.reddit.com/r/fulhamfc/comments/15xu180/is_reed_adding_4_inches_to_his_height/

Luke Harris also doesn't look quite that tall to me, but he does need a height entered in the db.

1 hora atrás, Brentford Alan disse:

 

The Porto researcher wouldn't have access to Fernandes' likes field, so that accusation holds no ground.

I've found two links that say he is (or was when young) a Porto fan in a quick search.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/lists/bruno-fernandes-fun-facts/blt3b0c9a82bc91f3a9#cs6a32ee75c012fc86

https://www.worldsoccer.com/best-of-ws/shooting-star-bruno-fernandes-409563

If it's a mistake, it happens. Please calm the language down, no one has put it in there to sabotage the game.

If the source researchers use for information purposes is goal.com and worldsoccer.com then they shouldn't be researchers at all.

Especially when both websites provide no sources on their claims. What's even more a sign of incompetence is that this error persists for several years 

For example from the very same goal.com article:  "

A loyal Red Devils fan 😈

As a teenager at Sporting Lisbon, like many other Portuguese kids, Fernandes witnessed fellow compatriot Cristiano Ronaldo succeed at Old Trafford under the leadership of Sir Alex Ferguson."

Bruno arrived at Sporting as a 23 year old. 

"There is some connection between Fernandes and the number eight. The deceased father of Bruno once wore the jersey while he was a player, and Fernandes even alludes to the number eight as his "lucky number." " 

Bruno's Dad is alive and well 😂

 

 

 

 

A number of staff are wrong for Arsenal, how can I contact the researcher?

55 minutes ago, Gabos79 said:

If the source researchers use for information purposes is goal.com and worldsoccer.com then they shouldn't be researchers at all.

Especially when both websites provide no sources on their claims. What's even more a sign of incompetence is that this error persists for several years 

For example from the very same goal.com article:  "

A loyal Red Devils fan 😈

As a teenager at Sporting Lisbon, like many other Portuguese kids, Fernandes witnessed fellow compatriot Cristiano Ronaldo succeed at Old Trafford under the leadership of Sir Alex Ferguson."

Bruno arrived at Sporting as a 23 year old. 

"There is some connection between Fernandes and the number eight. The deceased father of Bruno once wore the jersey while he was a player, and Fernandes even alludes to the number eight as his "lucky number." " 

Bruno's Dad is alive and well 😂

 

 

 

 

I haven't said the researcher/s used those sources, I said a quick search throws them up. I'm sure this game breaking error will be amended in due course 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Brentford Alan

1 hour ago, Gabos79 said:

If the source researchers use for information purposes is goal.com and worldsoccer.com then they shouldn't be researchers at all.

Especially when both websites provide no sources on their claims. What's even more a sign of incompetence is that this error persists for several years 

For example from the very same goal.com article:  "

A loyal Red Devils fan 😈

As a teenager at Sporting Lisbon, like many other Portuguese kids, Fernandes witnessed fellow compatriot Cristiano Ronaldo succeed at Old Trafford under the leadership of Sir Alex Ferguson."

Bruno arrived at Sporting as a 23 year old. 

"There is some connection between Fernandes and the number eight. The deceased father of Bruno once wore the jersey while he was a player, and Fernandes even alludes to the number eight as his "lucky number." " 

Bruno's Dad is alive and well 😂

 

 

 

 

The person who responded to you was simply looking to see where the previous reference may have been found.

Do you know the reason his preferred club not been changed for a long time? It will be because, until now, we were not aware of the error. When we are made aware of an error, we amend it (if appropriate) for the next official data update or next version of the game.

 

40 minutes ago, Readingfc1871 said:

A number of staff are wrong for Arsenal, how can I contact the researcher?

As explained in the thread. you can contact any researcher by posting those staff list issues in here, with proof.

We do not give our researcher's personal emails, and never will. This forum is for people to discuss the research with each one.