Forgetting natural position is wrong

I've had a young regen since the age of 18 where he was natural mc and accomplished dmc.

Straight away I recognised his talent lies as a winger and started training and playing him at mr to which he became a natural within 18/24 months.

Ever since, if I stop his position training but only ever play him at mr (although he is played at mc for portugal) and give him 90% playing time for the season he quickly falls back to accomplished mr when if anything he should be forgetting how to play dm (a position that he has never played in 5 years) and not the position he plays week in week out.

Low adaptability?

Low adaptability?

It is only 8 (this is a newgen so poor hidden stats are almost a certainty! ), but versatility is 16 and the point is that it shouldn't matter because he isn't "adapting", he already knows how to play there and does so every game...

I agree. Natural position should not be forgotten regardless of adaptability.

there's no difference between natural and accompishd anyway

It's a "false natural" position - it looks natural, but isn't actually natural.

False natural should be natural. If a player is 'false natural' because he can potentially forget how to play at that position, then he really should be at most 'competent' and not really natural, whether false or not.

Odd. I trained Pimenta (D L), Fabio (D R) and Hulk (AM R) and 6 years later they are still natural at their positions.

Odd. I trained Pimenta (D L), Fabio (D R) and Hulk (AM R) and 6 years later they are still natural at their positions.

Howso? That it can happen is not the same as it's going to happen.

Personally I don't like having to keep tabs and tinker even more with a players training schedule. I do quite enough of that as it is. If it is a balance issue then make it harder to advance a players ability for new positions but make the changes permanent.

Once a position hits "Natural", it should never be forgotten. If a player has trained a certain position for 1½-2 years or more he should never forget that position, especially if he plays that position for his club.

And BTW, Versatility is the hidden attribute used to determine how well a player plays out of position and how quickly he learns a new position. Adaptability is his ability to adapt to living in another country.

Once a position hits "Natural", it should never be forgotten. If a player has trained a certain position for 1½-2 years or more he should never forget that position.

Off course it should, if a player doesn't play at his natural position for several years, it won't be natural anymore.

Off course it should, if a player doesn't play at his natural position for several years, it won't be natural anymore.

But then that should also happen with the positions set at the start of the game.

Off course it should, if a player doesn't play at his natural position for several years, it won't be natural anymore.

But then that should also happen with the positions set at the start of the game.

An even more dynamic approach for player positions is certainly not something I'd like to see. The current system is annoying enough. Both of you make valid points though.

This has strayed from my point a little, perhaps the title is misleading. I am perfectly happy that positions are forgotten when they are not being trained or played in that position, however when a player is playing there 40 or 50 times a season he should not lose his ability to do so, if anything it should be improving.

I would gladly have the player I used as an example forget how to play dm, he never has or will play there (at least not for me) but because he was "born" as accomplished he will remain accomplished forever. Whereas he is a natural mr but will continue to lose his ability even whilst playing there as long as he is not learning it as a new position.

For one; it is completely farcical to suggest that a player needs to learn to play a position when he is already as good as he can possibly get and two; once all the original players have retired it will be impossible to have any james milner, nigel reo coker, arturo vidal -esque players who are competent/accomplished across many positions because 90% of newgens seem to be born with a one natural position and one accomplished or even just one natural and anything you teach them will be forgotten whilst you teach the next.

I think what most irritates me is that the player I spoke about is very versatile and almost completely two footed but I will never be able to train him up as a left midfielder for emergency cover or for winger swap position during games without losing his ability as mr!

I think they need to make some changed to positions and how they work. Or Tactical positioning. For example if you look at what Spain did the other day against Portugal would be imposible in FM? Because Xavi and Iniesta were kinda LM and RM but they also weren't :confused: if that makes sense lol. Because they were kinda playing in the middle! They would play awful if you put them LM and RM on FM. Anyone agree?

But then that should also happen with the positions set at the start of the game.

True.

Anyone agree?

I agree that I don't understand what you're saying .

Adaptability has nothing to do with positions, or does it?! (It's adapting to new countries)

Since you said "Ever since, if I stop his position training" - why did you not let it stop by itself when he reached a 'real' natural status as opposed to the 'fake' natural status discussed here that is actually below 20 points in that position?

Versatility (or flexibility, hidden attribute, forgot what it is called in the editor) determines the ease of which players adapt (and possibly remember) new positions.

Adaptability has nothing to do with positions, or does it?! (It's adapting to new countries)

Since you said "Ever since, if I stop his position training" - why did you not let it stop by itself when he reached a 'real' natural status as opposed to the 'fake' natural status discussed here that is actually below 20 points in that position?

You can never reach "real" natural status, just like you can never reach "real" accomplished status hence the training will never stop itself and the player must be trained forever. Look at a player in FMRTE and you'll notice there are two sections, one for "real" positions and one for learnt positions. "Fake" natural is a 20 but in the learnt positions and it is impossible to change the "real" positions (without using the editor obv).

EDIT: And good to know about the adaptability/versatility. He is very versatile (16) so it makes my point even more pertinent.

Mhm, when was that changed again? 09? 08?

You can never reach "real" natural status, just like you can never reach "real" accomplished status hence the training will never stop itself and the player must be trained forever. Look at a player in FMRTE and you'll notice there are two sections, one for "real" positions and one for learnt positions. "Fake" natural is a 20 but in the learnt positions and it is impossible to change the "real" positions (without using the editor obv).

EDIT: And good to know about the adaptability/versatility. He is very versatile (16) so it makes my point even more pertinent.

Well it's only half the problem. If in the database or "real position" the "positional knowledge" for left-back is 10, then the knowledge will never dip below 10. Ever.

And it's not really true, in the last few data releases Giggs's natural position has been shifted from AM L to AM C and probably back to AM L again - in the space of a season.

But I don't need to keep learning how to play left-back if I play left-back a lot (what else is there to learn aside from natural development?). I shouldn't forget it in a hurry either especially if I play a similar position like right-back (some characteristics can be taken over to left-back) or left-wing (same flank, similar players worked with).