The Italian Style. How to implement in FM10? Discussion.

Hi.

Introduction

I recently bought a copy of John Foot's book "Calcio". I still haven't read through it as it's a 600 pages and I bought it a couple a days ago. However I got some very interesting ideas from the history of the Italian football. I'm not knew to the Italian style of play and I know a lot of history already, but there was a couple of things in this book which was, to a certain degree, new to me. What I'm trying to do is to build a style of play around the history of the Italian system. I don't want to replicate the "catenaccio", Inter 60's or Milan 90's. What I'm trying to achieve with this is to start a discussion on how to take bits of these ideas and turn it into a great foundation of a tactic. However, I'm not so good at understanding all levels of sliders etc on FM. So I will try to give away what the certain roles do and my own suggestions of some of the values in FM. I will also try to find what kind of playing attributes the players need to have in order to get the team work.

I have thought about creating (in search of a better word) a tactic around the ideas of the Italian tactical ideas. But I must admit that posting it here was a moment of improvisation from my side. But I feel very dedicated to my project. However, as it's late now, I won't get the screenshots up tonight. I have been trying out the ideas in FM, though. First, I will try to get the players right (With help from you guys, of course), then I will try to make these players and their instructions to work as a unit.

The Players

Defence

The sweeping role

In the 60's Inter was coached by a legendary manager called Helenio Herrera. He was very unorthodox and his ideas was very groundbreaking. To get the story short he invented the sweeper. A player who was playing behind the back line, mopping up the balls and players who broke through the defence. In the history we've had Italian legends like Franco Baresi, Armando Picchi and Gaetano Scirea. To get this straight, I want this player to be good with his feet. And I would also stress that I want to play this player in a flat 4 man defenceThat was also important for the historical Italian teams. Not only did they defend, they also started the play from the back. He should be able to play short passes, but also the groundbreaking long pass which opens up the opposition's defence. Cause in my team, I want the players to be steady with the ball in all areas, and it's from the defenders the play will start. But in a modern sense, it's most important role is his defensive duties. This players doesn't have to be particular strong, tall or fast. His job is to read the play and anticipate how the opposition's passes will come. This is not the player who will take on the big, strong strikers.

Here's what I consider his most important attributes:Positioning, Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions, Composure, Tackling, Passing.

These are only the attributes I consider as absolutely vital in this role, but as a defender he should also have attributes like Marking, Jumping, Acceleration and Pace. But for me I would like to concentrate on the role of this particular position.

When it comes to the FM sense I'm very bad. All the top sliders (Mentality, Creative Freedom, Passing Style and Closing Down) are very difficult for me to figure in the FM world. But I want this player to always sit deep (It's not the Baresi role), cover up the defence and be smart and composed in passing the ball. So I guess I would like him to have Through Ball on 'Mixed' as I don't think 'Often' will be right as I don't want him to try and find those strikers or wingers every time, but often enough. Therefore it's vital that he has a high "Decisions" and "Passing" stat. He should have 'Zonal' marking and tight marking "NO". RFD, RWB, LS and Crosses should be on rarely although I'm a bit undecisive on the 'Run with ball' part.

Please reply if you don't agree with me on the role of the player or you have input on how this kind of a player should be setup. I would like to stress, though, that I don't want to replicate completely the original type of the role.

My first try at setting up this role:

Stopper

There is a well-know Italian former international call Claudio Gentile. His seen upon as a sort of a beast, especially after the treatment he gave Diego Maradona. Most people saw him as a player who would kick down the opposition no matter what. In a way, this is true. He was a tough player and probably injured a lot of players in his career. However, due to his excellent tackling skills, he didn't get many cards in his career, and if I remember correctly he didn't ever got sent off. This kind of player is one who would go to war as the front-man. "If you get past me, I'll knock you down". This kind of player would complement the sweeping player perfectly. In the "Tactical Creator" in FM10 they have a version of my sort of defence, but I don't think it's the same. My idea of a stopper isn't one who go to far in front of his colleague defender to win the balls. The midfield destroyers (will have more on those later) will take care of this. Essentially I want this player to be the wall in the defence. Aswell as his sweeping colleague he should also be good at reading the game and where the opposition will attack. This is essential in the Italian style of defence. But he will always be the "1st defender" if the opposition has broke through the midfield. And he should stop them no matter what if there's a possibility of a dangerous situation. This requires a great tackling skill and also be able to decide when he needs to stop the attackers. He should also be slightly in front of the sweeping defender.

His most vital skills should be: Tackling (This should be immensely high), Decisions, Anticipation, Strength, Positioning, Acceleration.

I also want this player to have a good jumping stat, as I think it's extremely important that at least one of the defenders should be able to outjump the attacker. The reason for the acceleration stat is that when he tackles it's important that he isn't too late. One little moment to late and he's sent off or being made of a fool because he's too late. Strength needs no more explanation.

Here's my first idea for the stopper:

Where from here?

Well, as I said it's extremely late and I'm tired. For now I have just wrote my ideas for the stopping pair. What else up for discussion?

I will talk about the special wing-back role as made known by Facchetti (Inter) and Cabrini (Juventus).

Italians teams also stressed the vitality of the director or midfield general a role which Gianni Rivera and Agostino di Bartomolei was known for.

These roles came along with one or more destructive midfielders like Oriali, Benetti and most recently Gennaro Gattuso.

And along came speedy, tricky wingers or inside forwards which tormented the opposition defence. Bruno Conti, Gigi Meroni were of these.

Of course is the offensive genius one of the most important roles here. Most newly it's Francesco Totti and Roberto Baggio. Back in the days it was father and son Mazzola (Valentino and Sandro). I'm very insecure about this part as I don't know which role which will suit the most to the team.

And upfront we have goalscoring striker. Italy is well-known for that with players like Paolo Rossi, Filippo Inzaghi, Christian Vieri, Roberto Bettega and so on. The difficult part here is which kind of a striker to go for? The strong powerstriker type or the more mobile one? The most important is that he should be the main goalscorer, though. No Heskey's or Crouch's here!

So what are your thoughts about implementing italian style to modern football and FM10?

The wing-back

This role is both defensive and attacking and requires a fairly complete player. He should be able to bombard forward, but as it's an Italian style of play he should also be good at defending. However it's hard to find these kind of players in FM. You often have to choose between a great attacking full-back or a solid defensive one. But it is possible if he find himself comfortable in this role. As most of the roles in this style of play the player should be smart and be able to decide the right moments to go forward or to stay back. Most of the times, though, he should bombard forward. This player should own the wing whether he's on the right or left. This role don't need as much explanation as the others as an attacking full/wing back has become common in the modern football. In FM sense it's important that this player should get the spaces he wants at the wing. He should also stay outside on the wing, so 'hug touchline' is important. This player should have "Run from deep" set as 'often', because that's what I want him to do and cross the ball into the goalscorer who is waiting for the crosses from the wing-back.

So what did I come up with? I'm still a bit insecure about this one as I'm afraid it can create holes on his side of the defence. The mentality slider (which I said earlier I'm very unsure of) should be vital for this player. He should however be fairly protected by the central defenders and the midfielders. The long shot stat really depends if he has a good long shot or not. Here's a screenshot of him:

Midfielders

The water carrier

This one is absolutely essential in every tactic which deploy many creative players. His job is to win the ball at the midfield and pass the ball to the "director" or on some occasions up to the more creative players at in offence. He should run his socks off and he should not be afraid when tackling. When the team attack he should be able to cover the holes left by the wingback. Another reason why this player is so important is that he can win the ball in midfield and give the opportunity for a counter attack. Therefore you should at least have one speedy player in the offensive department. I would also stress the fact that I don't want this player to "hold up ball". As said earlier, I want this player to get the ball to the more creative players near to him as early as possible. Therefore I kept his creative freedom very low and I want him on short passing as the 'director' or the 'regista'-type player (Pirlo) etc should be near him. Here's how I set him up in my game:

Anyone have some kind of ideas on these roles? Those two roles have become very common in the modern sense of football, so these are definitely not exclusive for Italian football. However maybe someone doesn't agree on how these should be played. Please speak up if you don't agree or have some more input.

Continuing the Italian Style...

A conclusion here maybe...?

Hi Pozzati, and how do you want to setup your formation? 1 Stopper;1 Libero, or 2 Stopper's;1 Libero?

The Helenio Herrera of Barca, (4-4-2) or the Helenio Herrera of Inter (5-3-2)?

I'd like it to play with 1 stopper and one libero. The thing is that I want those two to play "flat" if you understand. The mentality should be different however. When it comes to the rest of the formation, I'm still experementing a lot. Will I have two strikers? Should I play a very asymmetrical formation with only one winger/inside forward? This is a discussion thread, where I would like people to discuss these sort of things. I'm not trying to copy Helenio Herrera. I'm not a big fan of his style of play, but I liked his defensive organization. Offensively I will try to "wide the range" more. I will give my views on the midfield and the wing-back tonight.

Thumbs up for John Foot's Calcio. It's awesome.

Good OP Pozzati. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as I think it looks really promising. I also have a keen interest in Italian football.

I'm linking the following articles as I think they could be useful references for this thread:

Understanding Italian football part I - Fantasia

Understanding Italian football part II - Furbizia

Understanding Italian football part 3.1 - Terminology - Tactical deployment

Understanding Italian football part 3.2 - Terminology - Tactical roles

Understanding Italian football part 3.3 - Terminology - Player attributes

Understanding Italian football part 3.4 - Terminology - Tactics

Understanding Italian football part 4.1 - The evolution of tactics in Serie A since Calciopoli part one

Understanding Italian football part 4.2 - The evolution of tactics in Serie A since Calciopoli part two

The latter articles are particularly interesting for their analysis of more recent tactical developments in Italian football (especially looking at 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-1-2).

I also recommend Massimo Lucchesi's books. He talks about 4-4-2, the diamond, the rise of 3-4-1-2 in Italy and the more recent developments of 4-2-3-1 in Italy.

I realise that you probably want to look more at historical tactics in Italy but hopefully these articles will be interesting anyway.

From my point of view, I used to be a quite addicted to the Ancelotti style diamond on earlier editions of FM. I loved the trequartista, and firmly joined the cult of the playmaking number 10. I love the idea of having the team built around that player's creative and technical abilities.

More recently though, I am addicted to the regista (the deep-lying playmaker) like

As I think I have written in another thread recently, I am really interested in this tactical choice and the idea that such a role seems to be increasingly important in modern football. It seems to me to make sense that in the modern game, where attacking space is more and more at a premium, the creative fulcrum of the team should move deeper and away from the traditional trequartista position.

That's just my personal interest and hopefully there are a few points there to add to the discussion.

I look forward to seeing how this thread develops.

Great links there, crouchaldinho. It's hard for me to exactly explain what I what I'm trying to do here since English is not my first language. But you are very close to right. I want to develope a modern tactic or style of play from the ideas of the historical Italian ideas. To be able to do this I also need adapt to the modern game. I think a style of 4231 is the way to go. However I will do this with two attacking midfielders and a winger, I think. Please give me some input on this.

When it comes to the regista I think my director is very close to this. I will go into this kind of player in a few moments. A short answer to this I will have a fairly creative player in each section. The "sweeping role player" as I mentioned in the OP should play the team out from the back. Often I will want him, and the rest of the back of the team, to search for the director. But I'm very fond of the trequartista which I think is very important for an Italian style of play. The free-role player of the attack who will try to find spaces which he can get the ball and have the freedom to do what he wants with it. Therefore it's essential that the rest of the team create the spaces for him. I can't hide that I'm a big fan of Totti, and he make both assists and goals. I think SI managed to get the trequartista pretty spot on in the TC, but I'm trying to find ways to improve the trequartista even more.

I for sure will be reading this Pozzati, just a quick suggestion though, could you reccommend players from FM who you think ould be good in the positions? Or anyone else for that matter..

Maybe, in order to employ the trequartista role, it might be better to play 4-3-1-2?

You could probably pull it off with 4-2-3-1 but you might need to make the striker a deep-lying forward on support duty in order to give some balance.

I always tend to strongly associate the 4-3-1-2 with Italian football. I really fancy trying something like that, maybe more in the diamond shape, with the midfield and attack like this:

DM - Deep-lying playmaker, support

MC - Ball winning midfielder, defend

MC - Central midfielder, attack

AMC - Trequartista, attack

FC - Deep-lying forward, support

FC - Advanced forward, attack

I think that would produce an Italian style in terms of the attack. Patient, technical, probing, creative.

This is what I would tend to try.

Not sure about the defensive side of things, you seem to be quite clued up on what you want out of that.

Maybe rigid philosophy to be defensively solid and sound, with creativity more expressive and perhaps more roaming to encourage good attacking movement.

Just some thoughts for you.

Pozzati, I was thinking about a 4-4-1-1. what do you think?

In few words I want a stopper and a defender as the two central defenders. For the sweeping role I want a player who sits a little bit deeper than the rest of the defence and his main assignments is to read the play and intercept the through-balls. He also need to be a good tackler since he's the next defender if the opposition attacker gets loose from the stopper. But I also want him to be good on the ball and pass the ball well, as he should start the play from the back. In other words, he should have very good mental stats. The stopper should be what it says, a stopper. A wall which no player can break through or outmuscled.

I would definitely opt for a rigid philosophy as the roles of the more attacking players are more freely. I would not go for more expressive creative freedom, though. The team in a whole should be aware of their tasks and play that way. After all the trequartista, director (creative midfielder) and even the sweeping central defender should have a fairly high creative freedom with the players around them doing their jobs.

Yeah, I also think that 4312 is the formation to play. The problem is that I'm unsure of the trident in attack. My opinion is that the trequartista should be in the hole. The Italian tradition also have a goalscoring striker. It doesn't matter if he's big and strong or mobile and fast. What I think here is to have a player who can come from a little deeper and create the spaces for the trequartista and the striker. That's the reason I first chose an attacking midfielder or a winger. He should distract the opposition. Let's say if we have a Totti-like player as the trequartista. As the goalscoring striker we have a Vieri or a Batistuta which were fairly complete and could score in every way. My initial thought here was to have a player coming from deep to become an alternative option for the trequartista if the striker is well-marked. Maybe someone who can move to channels and even also 'roam from position'?

Another reason why I initially went for the 4231 was that I wanted a fast, technical winger who can prove to be vital in counter-attack. Historical Italian teams are known for the counter attacks and I think this player could be a great option for the creative defender or midfielder. It comes along really well when the midfield win the ball creating a great counterattacking opportunity. However maybe the fast and mobile striker could do just as well, drifting out wide?

Yeah, a 4411 could also work well. Then you have the trequartista and the goalscorer which are essential. But I think it maybe can be a bit too wide for an Italian formation, if you know what I mean. If I played a 4411 I would have one of the side midfielders to be a fast winger hugging the touchline and the other to either have defensive duties and drift a bit more towards the centre OR he could be a creative one. In short, in a 4411 I would have one cutting inside and the other to stay out on the wing.

I for sure will be reading this Pozzati, just a quick suggestion though, could you reccommend players from FM who you think ould be good in the positions? Or anyone else for that matter..

Great that you will be reading!

It's a bit difficult recommending players for my roles. I went to the player search to find a player for my two central defending spots and I mostly found defensive midfielders. However I actually found Gary Cahill a player who could do this role well. But I will try to experiment of buying a DM with the right stats and retrain him as a central defender. I suggest you search from the attributes I listed for each positions. For the defenders I can't stress enough how important the mental attributes are. I don't think you would have any success buying a player with a very low anticipation or decisions stat. A player who came up often in my player search was Sandro from Internacional. He would fit in many of the roles. As would Miguel Veloso.

The 4-2-3-1 is alien to italian football as a culture. I thought you were looking for something more typical like Eriksson's Lazio ou Mourinho's Inter, 4-3-1-2.

A flat back 4 with a libero and a stopper, 2 full back's ( 1 attack rarely), 3 MC with more defensive roles, 1 Trequartista, 1 striker Matador (Paolo Rossi) and the other striker, which role are you thinking of?

It's a pretty good book incidentally, read it last year. A bit randomly edited at times, but very informative about a very unique world of football.

You are spot on there. I have tried a couple of matches now with going to a more classic 4-3-1-2. I have the central defenders role, which is described above. The left-back is the wing-back and the right back is a defensive, tough-tackling defender. I use 3 MCs. Two of them the ball-winning type of player and the one in the middle is a Pirlo-esque type which I made more like a 'Director' (As in John Foot's book). AMC is the trequartista and I also have the goalscoring striker which should be in the box as much as possible. The other striker I was talking about is not a classical Italian striker. After all this is a discussion/tactic developing thread and I found that a hard-working, fast striker beside the goalscorer was a good idea. I set up this player with a lower mentality than the goalscorer. Here's how I set him up:

Early signs show him as a good decision. He stretch the opposition's defence with great efficiency and make heaps of space for the trequartista and the goalscorer. The defence seemed to have troubles with my striker combination along with trequartista and the wingback. When the "distraction-striker" was on the left with the wing-back their defence had to be dragged over to my left which left my trequartista and goalscorer with heaps of space. He also hassled their defence to make bad-passes. But I must say that this was just in friendlies against lower opposition. Time will tell if it's effective against good opposition.

there's nothing showing about the striker, how you set it up.???

there's nothing showing about the striker, how you set it up.???

It's an image in the post on how I decided to set him up.

http://bildr.no/view/598819

Edit: In my two last matches (friendlies) I have scored 18 goals against Pontevedra and Alaves (9-1 and 9-0). My goalscoring striker have scored 11 in these two matches. I'm Fiorentina btw... Not the best opposition and it's just friendlies, but I'm very optimistic.

Crouchaldinho I want to thank you for posting those links. I've read a couple, and now I understand Italian roles and the Italian game much more. I've always appreciated the Italian style but now I do even more so. I'm going to try to experiment with some of these roles in Juve save. But Pozzati, I think when Deus's legends database comes out (I think it comes out late March or early April) your goal will be much easier.

EDIT: I think Sissoko (Juve one) would be great "Median" especially because of his speed. Of course there are the obvious ones like Ambro and Gattuso and the more modern variatitons (ones who can pass) like Palombo and de Rossi.

Pozzati, I've got one version ready for you to test. Beat Barcelona, Champions League, with Wolves 3-1, very solid.

Great, Zico! Can you tell a bit more on how you set it up etc? What season are you in?

season 2010/11 with Wolves, Champions League. Well, it worked very nice indeed yesterday, but I'm about to try it again after install the new Patch 10.3.

Here it is Pozzati

GK (defend)

RB (defend)-CB (cover)-CB (stopper)-LB (attack)

MC (center mid attack)-MC (ball winner)-MC (deep playmaker support)

AMC (advanced playmaker)

ST (trequartista)-ST (poacher)

DOWNLOAD:http://www.filefront.com/15719125/Pozzati%204-3-1-2.tac

TEAM SETTINGS

Italy National Team Tactics

Using the latest 10.3 patch I am going to attempt to contribute to this thread as much as my limited tactical knowledge possibly can do so. What better team to use to work on Italian tactics than the national team themselves? I understand that they are a very strong side so the likelihood of developing successful tactics may be slightly easier than with other teams.

To be different to the thread starter and most contributors I will be using a pretty standard 4-4-2 formation, especially with the winger boost in the new patch. Here is my squad:

GK Buffon – Abbiati – Amelia
RB Santon – Zambrotta
LB De Ceglie – Criscito
CB Chiellini – Gamberini
CB Bonera – Barzagli
RM Balotelli – Padallino
LM Cassano – Di Natale
CM De Rossi – Palombo - Marchisio
CM Montolivo – Aquilani
FW Amauri – Gilardino - Barriello
FW Rossi – Paloschi – Acquafresca

Obviously it is not set in stone so if you would like to point out any players which I have overlooked or any which you feel should not be in the squad then by all means point them out. A couple of famous veteran players have been omitted due to myself favouring the younger generation though. A replacement for Zambrotta would be nice though.

For the player roles, what I have plumped for in these initial stages is as following, pretty straight forward and basic though to be honest.

GK – Defend
RB – Full Back Defend
LB – Full Back Defend
CB – Central Def Stopper
CB – Ball Play Def Cover
RM – Winger Attack
LM – Winger Attack
CM – Central Mid Def
CM – Advanced Play Attack
FW – Target Attack
FW – Advanced FWD Attack

I have tried to go for a balance which gives me defensive cover as well as Italian attacking flair. My defensive line, I think, is strong. Chiellini at left centre is fairly quick so he is the one who is covering for the right centre (at present) Bonera who looks to get in the face of the attacker. Both full backs are defensive but it is not a waste of Santon as he ‘runs with ball down right’ anyway as a PPM. De Ceglie will be more defensive but Criscito likes to run up the left flank. Zambrotta is also very attacking so I would like a more defensive-minded right full back.

In midfield, we have the holder who is De Rossi/ Palombo. Very defensive players who will look to win the ball back in midfield taking the pressure off the defence. Such is the quality of these defensive players, though, will see them spray the ball around and not just lay it off to the attacking midfielder. Palombo looks for passes rather than attempting to score whereas De Rossi shoots from distance as PPMs, De Rossi may be problematic. All my wingers can play up front in attack so it makes sense to have them as very attacking players. I am unsure whether to have them stay out wide or cut inside, maybe some suggestions?

Up front there is the balance of a big strong target man who is good with his feet and the smaller, nimbler striker who will look to feed off him. Primarily I will look to pass to feet here.

Philosophy – Fluid
Strategy – Standard
Passing – Shorter
Freedom – Expressive
Closing Down – Default maybe?
Tackling – Again, Default?
Marking – Zonal
Crossing – Drill
Roaming – More
Defensive Line – Push Up
Width – Wide
Tempo – Slow
Counter Attack

And there we have the team instructions. We have a friendly and four World Cup Quals coming up so I will let you know the results and how I believe my team is performing.

Is working exceptionally well with the new Patch 10.3.

I have to say I'm impressed with the gameplay on this new patch.

I've just taught Barca a lesson in possession football 63% v 37% with Wolves, playing Pozzati's 4-3-1-2 on this new Patch 10.3

Sorry it was the wrong tactic, and wrong patch.

Great! Thanks, I will test it. I must admit that I'm going to be a bit quite this week due to job. But at the weekend I will test it good, and give you feedback on how it's working

@oceandean, you forgot pirlo at center mid

on topic, i'm definitely going to try this out with my beloved milan at some point. the narrow diamond works well, and i'd imagine that this tactic is similar to it, so wish me luck

Apologies guys, made a mistake and uploaded the tactic for previous patch 10.2, on post #26.

This is the new update tactic Pozzati 4-3-1-2 for Patch 10.3. If you downloaded the previous one just delete it and install this one.

This formation is based on Italy 1990. The trio upfront are playing the roles of Giannini (AMC-Advanced Playmaker) Roberto Baggio (Trequartista) and Vialli or Schillaci (Poacher).

DOWNLOAD:http://www.filefront.com/15719125/Pozzati%204-3-1-2.tac

ZICO10, can you post your passing and tempo settings ?

ZICO10, can you post your passing and tempo settings ?

Batata, the passing settings differs from player to player, but mostly is short, and the tempo is displayed on the post #24. Just download and check it.

Great to see a good italian tactic talk going on here

some pointers from me , italian football is not that short ball based it is more patient...slow tempo;) and narrow width. I am testing a juve capello flat 442. with Juventus.

I am using a when leading 1-0 , it is the other team that needs to push forward to get a result and I look to punish that approach. with counter attacks , even at home.

will ad tactics and playing style soon

Great to see a good italian tactic talk going on here

some pointers from me , italian football is not that short ball based it is more patient...slow tempo;) and narrow width. I am testing a juve capello flat 442. with Juventus.

I am using a when leading 1-0 , it is the other team that needs to push forward to get a result and I look to punish that approach. with counter attacks , even at home.

will ad tactics and playing style soon

Just not sure how I post my season or ad my tactic here , but more than happy to get pointers and questions to my tactic

Just not sure how I post my season or ad my tactic here , but more than happy to get pointers and questions to my tactic

Big dady, upload your tactic to Filefront, and your pics to http://imageshack.us/ then copy the direct link, and paste here through the insert image button and download tactic link from Filefront through the insert link button.

Have done some testing with your tactic now, Zico. I must admit that I'm not a fan of such "extreme" passing styles (Most of the players have the passing set to 1), but I changed my view after I looked at a few matches. The very short passing along the slow tempo contributes to a build-up play I have never seen in FM before. Because some players have through ball set as 'often' they don't just pass the ball around with no creativity. I started a game with Napoli in 10.3 and am lying 4th in 31. December. However this was fully about testing your tactic and I didn't concentrate on teamtalks or any other aspects other than the tactic itself.

Your defence seems very organized and I really like the look of it. However I tweaked the ballplaying defender (cover) to have through balls set as 'mixed' as this was essential for my view of developing the tactic. The 'tridente' also seems to be coming along really well. However Napoli don't have the right strikers to start with, but I think if I get in the right strikers the goals will come, cause the tactic creates A LOT of chances.

A very good tactic Zico which should be developed to the maximum

zico what shouts should i use with the 4312 ?!

Good thread. My two pence.

My thoughts on Opposition Instructions to help create a solid defensive structure you may want in your counter attacking tactic. But first, ensure your defensive lines (ie. if 4-4-2, two banks of four) are set up to your preference. Mentality and Closing Down sliders determine your players’ positions on the pitch. I’m not going to recommend specific settings (such as “5 clicks from lowest Closing Down”); that is each manager’s personal preference… analyze your players’ positions. If a player is getting himself out of position and breaking the defensive shape, decrease his Closing Down slider to your liking. Onto Opposition Instructions….

Show weaker foot – I recommend for all midfielders and attackers. If implemented, don’t be lazy and select “show weaker foot.” Check the opposition player’s profile and show onto ACTUAL weaker foot. Don’t rely on your player to make that decision.

GK – I leave alone.

FB – Also nothing. If anything, show onto “X” foot.

WB – Nothing unless I notice they are very attack-oriented. Example, 5-3-2 wingback system… if I see their WBs are bombing forward and midfielders are not the attacking focus, I will set Always Close Down and Show Onto “X” Foot.

SW/DC – Never Close Down. Whether 442, 532, 352, etc… any player with a SW or DC label, never close down. Your players will get out of position and defensive shape will break. Don’t worry, the ME will not sit back and hold out for a draw. They may pass back to GK, reset and try again… eventually they will try to break your defense, leading to possession turnover or shot off target/blocked.

DMC – if opposition has employed this role, Show Onto “X” Foot. If you see their DMC has no attacking impetus (no forward runs, just passing laterally or backwards), you may select Never Close Down. If No Specific Instructions for closing down is working, then don’t fix what is not broken.

MC – Show Onto “X” Foot. That’s it. Remember, my suggestions are based on a solid defensive shape you have already created with the Mentality and Closing Down sliders. Your team will close down when AI gets to the area of the pitch you determined as dangerous. I may set Hard Tackling if there is a physical midfielder opposition (think Mascherano, etc).

LM/RM/AML/AMR – Show Onto “X” Foot and Always Tight Mark. If AI has AML/AMR (usually found in 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, think Barca and Liverpool), then I change my FBs to man-mark that actual player. The FBs in my tactic are normally set to man-mark and tight mark.

AMC – If AI employs this role (4-3-1-2, 4-2-3-1 as examples), then Always Tight Mark and Show Onto “X” Foot. I use a 4-3-3 tactic that has 2 MCs and a DMC. The DMC player instruction is set to man mark and tight mark. I have not found it necessary to set my DMC to mark the actual opponent.

FC/ST – If lone ST, Always Close Down and Show Onto “X” Foot. If 2 ST system, Always Close Down for the goal scoring threat and Always Tight Mark for the other ST. My DCs are set to zonal marking and no tight marking; I don’t want them pulled out of position. Via Mentality and Closing Down sliders, I did set up a Stopper/Cover partnership.

You may notice that I have used Always Close Down primarily on STs. The theory is there is less space for AI to exploit if the ball is in my third of the pitch and my player happens to get out of position. Hopefully my GK will rush out in time to cover. And obviously you want to close down a player that is tasked with scoring. Also effective when AI is clearing the ball long to ST.

These OIs will not guarantee long streaks of clean sheets (well, if you’re a top side, it may), but I have found it very effective and decreased my Goals Against. Let me know if it works for you.

Have done some testing with your tactic now, Zico. I must admit that I'm not a fan of such "extreme" passing styles (Most of the players have the passing set to 1), but I changed my view after I looked at a few matches. The very short passing along the slow tempo contributes to a build-up play I have never seen in FM before. Because some players have through ball set as 'often' they don't just pass the ball around with no creativity. I started a game with Napoli in 10.3 and am lying 4th in 31. December. However this was fully about testing your tactic and I didn't concentrate on teamtalks or any other aspects other than the tactic itself.

Your defence seems very organized and I really like the look of it. However I tweaked the ballplaying defender (cover) to have through balls set as 'mixed' as this was essential for my view of developing the tactic. The 'tridente' also seems to be coming along really well. However Napoli don't have the right strikers to start with, but I think if I get in the right strikers the goals will come, cause the tactic creates A LOT of chances.

A very good tactic Zico which should be developed to the maximum

Pozzati, cheers man but I don't like the long ball rubbish, and to make it a real italian style it has to be very short with slow tempo build up. I think you have the players in Napoli. Quaqliarela, Dennis, Lavezzi and Hamsik as AMC can do the job for you.

NB. By the way, have you downloaded the new tactic update for Patch 10.3? It seems to me you still have the first one I posted by mistake for patch 10.2.

@eltjon, I've tried the "Work ball into box" and it seems to work fine.

http://www.filefront.com/15732339/442%20siggi%20%28Juventus%2C%20Oct%202009%29.tac

Here is my tactic with Juventus , it is coming along nicely with a really tight defence, only tweak it a little bit depending on who I am playing . counter against the best teams away and control when heavy favorite at home. quartista and poacher up front , switch the one or the other with a target man if the goals are not coming.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7292/seriea2.png

here is the season so far, I have quite a few injuries so far, so not expecting the team to gel in another few months.

using

buffon

caceres full supp.

chiellini defend normal.

legrottagllie def cover.

grosso full supp.

candreva wide mid. att.

poulsen ball win def.

marchisio ball win supp.

de ceglie wide mid. att.

del piero/trezequet-trequartista/target man-to head.

amauri -poacher.

Pozzati, cheers man but I don't like the long ball rubbish, and to make it a real italian style it has to be very short with slow tempo build up. I think you have the players in Napoli. Quaqliarela, Dennis, Lavezzi and Hamsik as AMC can do the job for you.

NB. By the way, have you downloaded the new tactic update for Patch 10.3? It seems to me you still have the first one I posted by mistake for patch 10.2.

@eltjon, I've tried the "Work ball into box" and it seems to work fine.

No, I've been using the last one you posted for patch 10.3. Yeah, like I said i really enjoy the short passing. I think the strikers work OK, but Lavezzi is no classic Italian poacher, but I think Quagliarella could be a good trequartista. But the squad need a lot of strengthening and also the midfield is OK at most (Although having Cigarini for the Deeplying Playmaker is great). I sold Denis actually. Raised the funds for Lukaku (Which is stunning) and Toby Alderweid as I think he could be a great option for a ball-playing defender.

Lavezzi you have to play him as a Trequartista or AMC sometimes if needed and Quagliarella as the poacher, with Hamsik behind them. That's the best setup. I would advise you to buy Salvador Cabañas to play as a poacher, and Nicolas Sanchez from River Plate. He can play as Defender/Libero or DMC, young, very quick, good passing and good in the air.

Zico10 would you use the "Control" version in all games? If not, what changes would you make in what situations?

Zico10 would you use the "Control" version in all games? If not, what changes would you make in what situations?

Of course my friend, if you don't control the game you are in trouble. You have to impose your style on any opposition, let them chase the ball and the game.

Some very interesting reading to be had in this thread. Keep it up everyone

I must say, Zico's italian football version for the 10.3 patch is working pretty darn well. As pozzati mentioned before, the short passing settings are resulting is some impressive build up play that I've never seen before in FM. Maybe it's because of the new ME, I don't know. But the tactic is very well done.

If it can be useful to the discussion, I'd like to point out that teams like Chievo use as AMF in the 4-3-1-2 a player like Pinzi or use a player in that position to press and not give time to the other team to think and build play easier.

Apologies guys, made a mistake and uploaded the tactic for previous patch 10.2, on post #26.

This is the new update tactic Pozzati 4-3-1-2 for Patch 10.3. If you downloaded the previous one just delete it and install this one.

This formation is based on Italy 1990. The trio upfront are playing the roles of Giannini (AMC-Advanced Playmaker) Roberto Baggio (Trequartista) and Vialli or Schillaci (Poacher).

DOWNLOAD:http://www.filefront.com/15719125/Pozzati%204-3-1-2.tac

Test your Tac with FC Twente

Home WIN 4-1 Shaktar CLQ

Away WIN 4-1 Sparta League

Away LOSE 0-2 Shaktar CLQ

Home DRAW 0-0 PSV League

Away WIN 2-1 ADO League

Away LOSE 2-4 Stuttgart CLQ

Home WIN 1-0 RKC League

Home LOSE 0-1 Stuttgart CLQ

Home WIN 1-0 Utrecht League

Away LOSE 0-1 Fenerbahce EC

Away LOSE 1-3 Heerenveen League

first game i tried Zico10's basic tactic, i kinda panicked 65min in thought, and tweked around the role set up for the 3 guys up front (droped the tranquista role to amc, went for poacher/targetman up front) and went into overload/get ball forward, these minor tweeks probebly won me the game

so here goes a small update on using Zico10's formation this time i tried it on my newcastle save, and I most say im impressed

results so far:

Newcastle - Everton 4-2 W

Newcastle - Arsenal 2-0 W (first leg qtr final cl)

Man U - Newcastle 2-1 L (FA cup semi final) conceded a goal in the 93'rd min

Arsenal - Newcastle 2-3 W (secound leg qtr final cl)

Newcastle - FC Bayern 1-1 (cl semi first leg) taylor got sent of early on

Newcastle - Burnly 4-1