Naples is beautiful, so is the counter attack!

This project ended up being a complete disaster. Mostly due to my constant tinkering and silly referee decisions. Not to mention my goalkeeper watching a ball roll through his legs into the back of our net. I won't be updating this anymore

I haven't done a thread in a long time and these world cup threads have been quite inspiring so here we go!

Napoli is a great team. Lots of pace, plenty of attacking options, and solid midfielders. However I don't like the AI's typical 4-2-3-1 deep set up at all. Time for me to take over.

How do we want to play?

- counter attacking

- aggressive tackling

- balance with the flanks

- pace pace pace

The tactical plan, man

Okay so basically I'll just draw it out and then screen shot the actual tactic. Here's the rough diagram:

The idea here is that we keep a really solid shape when defending but during attack we become very dynamic. So, on the left flank you'll see that we're going to have an "inside forward" / wing back combination. I want the advanced player to cut inside and open up space so the wing back can gallop down the flank towards the byline.

On the opposite flank we have a traditional winger/fullback combination. This is important because Napoli have mostly right footed attacking options, so on the flank flank we cut inside (right foot) and on the right flank we whip in crosses (right foot again). This is a lot more varied than both flanks doing the same thing, obviously, and it suits our counter attack plan because we don't rely on just one method of moving the ball / creating chances. KEY aspect right there bro.

Also please note the movement of the center forward. He's going to be on support, obviously because he's alone, and it's important that he's able to drift around in space. One of the center mids will dart forward and make some nasty little runs. Hamsik is a perfect option there. He's deadly.

Then you'll see that I've drawn the other CM to be slightly deeper, which = a DLP. The DM is pretty standard, and the 2 center backs are as well.

I have a lot of experience using a 4-1-4-1 type of set up so you'll just have to trust me that this will work. On to the actual tactic screen with more details...

Okay so this is really simple. As you can see I don't have many instructions ticked, and the reason being is that less is more. Really, it is.

I don't want to play a heavy possession game, I want us to get the ball forward at the right time. I don't want us to play like Sam Allardyce, but I also don't want to do any of that tiki taka stuff either. So this is a really good balance between launching direct attacks, and playing out of the back slowly.

I decided on the counter mentality because.. well.. obviously this gives us the best option to counter attack. It's also brilliant. Fluid has been chosen because 1. I really have good success with it and 2. it suits my gameplan pretty well and honestly I don't want to give so many specialized roles.

In terms of the roles/duties this is all pretty standard stuff. Very balanced. The only player instructions I set are that the WM will cut inside (to make space for the WB) and the WB will dribble wide, and possibly get further forward. The DLP-S in central midfield may need to play in defensive midfield if things get too crowded but ultimately I want him to be where he is currently. It's just a good fit for this team. Also, note that I put the CM-A next to the W-A. The reason being is that there will be plenty of space opened up. If I put the CM-A on the other side, next to the WM, then they'd be competing for the same space which we don't want to have happen.

This is really really simple stuff. I haven't even tested it yet but I have my first friendly coming up so, we'll see! I'm also developing a 4-2-3-1 which is basically like the same thing but with 2 DM's and 1 CM. That is a formation we could use against really tough opponents.

Hope you've enjoyed this!

This is very interesting! I'll be following this closely since I've been trying to do the exact same thing with Fiorentina, albeit with a Fluid/Balanced 4-4-1-1 and 4-1-4-1 being my defensive shape.

I was just wondering why you didn't go for a 4-4-1-1 with Hamsik as an AMC bursting into the box past the striker?

Also, have you considered playing the DLP as a DM with a ball-winner in CM? I was thinking this could give the DLP space to work in and could help with starting counter-attacks?

I considered those options but ultimately I felt the AMC would be problematic playing in Italy, with so many crowded midfields.

Some games it would indeed make sense to use the DLP at DM and a BWM at CM, however in that case I'd make sure the DLP had a defend duty to keep things stable.

First match was a friendly against Red Bull and honestly it was horrible because they just parked the bus, and although we went ahead 2-0 things go interesting very quickly...

Red Bull started with a 4-2(DM)-2-2 formation. Very defensive. However after we went up 2-0, and they had literally no chances, they switched to a super aggressive 4-2-4 as you'll see below..

FM is a beautiful game because it will punish you for not making changes / adjustments when absolutely needed. In this case, we were burned.

As you can see, the striker drops deep and receives the ball. The AML for Red Bull is getting ready to burn us for his 2nd goal, of the EXACT same type of play. This goal was literally like watching a replay of the first, and I didn't make changes to compensate for it (this is a friendly and I'm taking notes on my tactic anyway).

The players circled in yellow are the problem areas. As you can see the right back is absolutely clueless (FB-S) and has made no attempt to even spot his man, that's a shame. But probably reasonable considering it's Revalliere and not a top class player. Maybe.

The DM is technically in position but not really doing his job. I need to see if maybe adding player instructions would help in this instance, because I want that striker who dropped deep to be better marked.

Unfortunately because this FM has this specific issue, the CD has jumped up to cover the striker, leaving a huge gap for the pass to be played into. This is a massive problem in FM this year, but generally speaking I've been able to deal with it with the proper tactical adjustments. In fact, I haven't conceded a goal like that in a long time (different tactics, and etc.)

Also you'll note the winger is not helping out defensively at all. Another issue to recognize. This was all fine when red bull used ML/MR, but when they switched to AML/AMR things really started to get testy for us, as they were in a much more dangerous position.

We ended up losing that first friendly 3-2 despite outplaying Red Bull Salzburg... They scored a third goal on a wonder strike from some random kid. Gutting result but it's only a friendly. Here's some key notes.

- Our DM was perhaps too aggressive and didn't play the way he should have. When the striker drops deep he should pick him up but he often doesnt. This may be an FM issue, I don't know.

- The AI's decision to use AML/AMR in the 2nd half quite literally changed the game. Salzburg started with ML/MR and they had absolutely no attack. They were awful. They pushed up those players and it made all the difference. I didn't take notice of this until they scored, and then they scored again with the exact same type of play. Really frustrating but it happens. The problem with playing a low block is that you may not close down in enough time to stop the key pass being made from central midfield to the AML/AMR. In this case, you need to shut that down or you'll get burned.

- The winger / fullback combination was fine going forward but really exposed defensively by their AML. Eventually I had the winger man mark the AML, acting as a double team of sorts. That helped but it shouldn't be necessary. Wingers do not track back as much in FM as they should, if we're being honest. The full back was clueless, which was upsetting. But the same thing happened ot the AI, only difference is we didn't score on the play.

Changes:

- Possibly set the DM to close down less

- Have the right full back play more narrow / or maybe tighter to his man ?

- have the winger actually track back

- Close down that stupid striker before he can burn us next time

Unfortunately for me the problem is always with a striker dropping deep and playing a pretty pass. It's funny how that happens so often. I think this has to do with the CD issue in FM, however, the DM has to do a better job and I gotta figure that out.

Interesting thread so far - like your tactical selection though and the way you present your thought processes. As for the concept of getting the 2 wings doing things differently - this is crucial. You need space opened up and to attack the opponents in different ways. If the opponents sit narrow - your winger will have space to whip crosses - if they sit wider, your WM(S) on the left can drift into pockets while the WB(A) occupies the full back on the opposition. Regardless if what your opponents do, you always have a way to play.

Interesting thread so far - like your tactical selection though and the way you present your thought processes. As for the concept of getting the 2 wings doing things differently - this is crucial. You need space opened up and to attack the opponents in different ways. If the opponents sit narrow - your winger will have space to whip crosses - if they sit wider, your WM(S) on the left can drift into pockets while the WB(A) occupies the full back on the opposition. Regardless if what your opponents do, you always have a way to play.

Exactly, well said. That's the baseline for what I wanted to do.

The thing about this tactical approach is that not only will it produce counter attacks to create chances, but also it should create chances when we have possession and build from the back. It isn't an approach to just sit back and plug holes.

I have a friendly against Man City coming up and I'll hopefully sort out those issues above.

Exactly, well said. That's the baseline for what I wanted to do.

The thing about this tactical approach is that not only will it produce counter attacks to create chances, but also it should create chances when we have possession and build from the back. It isn't an approach to just sit back and plug holes.

I have a friendly against Man City coming up and I'll hopefully sort out those issues above.

This is essential - tactics must be able to produce different types of chances, in different situations or otherwise your team is 1 dimensional and predictable to defend against. I like my teams to have width and central dominance - to have good movement, runners from deep, players dropping deep, runners from wide-central and central to wide - but ultimately the variety is the thing that allows you to adapt tactics so well against different opponents.

Okay On To Man City

We conceded a brilliant goal from David Silva early on, we simply couldn't have defended against it honestly. No chance.

However we also created a BRILLIANT goal and it didn't even come off a counter attack. So I'll show you the goal, and you'll see how we create chances even without being on the break. It's lovely.

Here we go. Screen shot #1

As you'll see the spaces in yellow are the huge gaps left by the AI's 4-2-3-1 Denmark formation. A massive problem for the AI is the inability to track back from the AML/AMR. Also note that the AI left back has to be sure to stay wide in case my winger darts forward or fullback darts forward.

Also note the deep lying playmaker / center back linkup. This all starts in the back with Albiol's simple little pass forward to Inler. I accidentally put the red arrow towards Hamsik but the ball will go on the flank to Insigne. You'll see.

#2

This is where things get really interesting. As you'll see the ball has been passed from central midfield to Insigne who cuts in from the flank (the WM-S). I've made sure to highlight Hamsik, the CM-A as he will be the next to receive the ball in a very dangerous area. You'll also notice I highlighted some City players, specifically those who aren't able to help out defensively. The left back for City has to stay wide and protect the flank, he can't help out his CD's. The CM's aren't doing much, and the AML/AMR are a total mess. So we benefit

#3

The goal was scored here. Insigne passes to Hamsik, cuts through the defense and scores. Absolutely beautiful. A simple passing move completely tore through the AI defense. Brilliant.

This is great stuff!

It's good to see your ideas coming off. A nice move playing out from the back, your winger distracting the left full-back, your left midfielder cutting inside, and Hamsik bombing forward.

How is the team countering so far?

So far I am thrilled with the attacking moves, chances created, and most important (IMO) the shots on target! In our last match, a 4-3 cracker against Hannover we had 10+ shots on target. Incredible for an away side.

A few things will need to be looked at though, mainly the closing down in central midfield. The CM-A + DLP-S do not close down much. In fact, I can adjust their player settings to "close down more" and I may end up doing that. What happens at times is the other team will play a ball centrally, and get it up to the strikers who then distribute to either a strike partner or a wide player. So to stop that like I said above we need to close down more. I'm thinking of doing a "false press" where pretty much everyone presses with the exception of the back line. For instance, without making any changes my striker and winger both close down more by default, which is lovely.

Hopefully we can tighten up a bit more defensively. So far it has been a slight issue but we've also had some weird bounces / bad luck.

Do you think their lack of closing down is because of the counter strategy?

I like the idea of the false press, would you include the defensive midfielder in that or just the midfield four and striker? I've never tried a false press in FM but it would be interesting to see if you can make it work. I remember when Mourinho was at RM he used to instruct the front four to close down like hell and the back 6 would stay deep. It actually worked and Barca couln't exploit the huge gap left in midfield at all, strangely. There's a link somewhere on Zonal Marking if you want me to find it?

I like seeing people work on the defensive side of their tactics though. I'm a firm believer of building from the back first.

Do you think their lack of closing down is because of the counter strategy?

I like the idea of the false press, would you include the defensive midfielder in that or just the midfield four and striker? I've never tried a false press in FM but it would be interesting to see if you can make it work. I remember when Mourinho was at RM he used to instruct the front four to close down like hell and the back 6 would stay deep. It actually worked and Barca couln't exploit the huge gap left in midfield at all, strangely. There's a link somewhere on Zonal Marking if you want me to find it?

I like seeing people work on the defensive side of their tactics though. I'm a firm believer of building from the back first.

Yes. Had I chosen a more aggressive strategy such as "control" or even "Attacking" then chances are those players would already have "close down more" pre-selected for their player instructions.

No need to dig out the old link from ZM, but thanks anyway.

Basically, the DM already has "close down more" ticked on by default. So, initially I turned that off and went with "close down less" but that was probably a mistake. I think there is really no need for the DM to just sit in front of the back four and remain static. If I wanted that I suppose I could use an Anchor man, but I go with a simple DM-D. And he will close down more by default.

I'm still going through quite a few friendlies and I will definitely update this thread with more findings.

Also, as I wrote above the quality chances being created with this tactic are mind blowing. We're getting so many shots on target (not just shots), and so many CCC's. Even if we have say, 40% possession, I could care less as long as the AI isn't frequently creating anything of substance, while we are. It's beautiful.

Working on adding a 3 CD formation which should take advantage of our strong central midfield play, AND the lack of true "wide men" in advanced areas.

Will update soon.

Late Preseason Update

Okay so the first few games were rocky (due to match fitness levels, playing Man City, some unlucky bounces and etc.

However we're now seeing awesome results, and in truth, those rocky first few games produced good results despite the scorelines.

What you'll see next is the match stats from the last game we played. We lined up our 4-1-4-1, and they used a 4-2-3-1 Denmark.

We won 4-0.

So, note all the things I underlined in red. Mainly shots on target and possession. As you'll see, possession means nothing. If you care about the final score, not the possession, you can open yourself up to some amazingly consistent results. We managed to create 3 CCC's against a team that played pretty defensive football. This is a key point: a lot of people complain that they cannot break down teams, well, generally those people are also using very aggressive mentality (control, attacking). This shows you what can be done with a lower mentality!

If I cared about possession then we would need to either 1. push higher / hassle / increase closing down or 2. play a less direct passing game, and focus on retaining the ball.

The pass completion ratio isn't ideal, but it honestly doesn't matter all that much. And note the average player ratings too, we had a wonderful game despite having less than 40% of the ball.

Finally, the 1 CCC the opposition had came on a 1 v 1 situation with a pacey AMR vs my left wing back. Those individual battles can be problematic when dealing with AML / AMR in these aggressive (and quite frankly unrealistic) AI formations. So, they could have scored there. To defend against that playing narrow would help, but I wasn't playing a quality team so, I didn't make any adjustments. Just let the boys play this one.

2nd Match of the Season

2nd match of the Serie A season saw us take on AC Milan at home. Obviously it's a huge match for Napoli, with high expectations and Milan's struggles to find an identity + seedorf and etc.

However, we came in with our basic plan and executed it BRILLIANTLY. 4-1-4-1 formation, counter mentality, and a very quick/direct approach. The result? Milan had 1 shot. We had 7 on target!

Look at the possession and the shots on target. More evidence that possession is meaningless. The headline after the match was "quality of possession provides napoli with a victory" and it's true. When we had the ball we actually did a lot of productive things with it.

I'm in love with this save!

What was the score?

2nd Match of the Season

2nd match of the Serie A season saw us take on AC Milan at home. Obviously it's a huge match for Napoli, with high expectations and Milan's struggles to find an identity + seedorf and etc.

However, we came in with our basic plan and executed it BRILLIANTLY. 4-1-4-1 formation, counter mentality, and a very quick/direct approach. The result? Milan had 1 shot. We had 7 on target!

Look at the possession and the shots on target. More evidence that possession is meaningless. The headline after the match was "quality of possession provides napoli with a victory" and it's true. When we had the ball we actually did a lot of productive things with it.

I'm in love with this save!

What's most impressive is that they didn't have single shot on target or CCC!

What was the score?

2-0 to us! Fantastic early season result.

Exactly. I forgot to use MS Paint to highlight those things but it's pretty obvious regardless. Milan look absolutely horrible with Seedorf in FM right now.. They were much more dangerous with Allegri. Seedorf has them playing this weird cautious style that just produces absolutely nothing.

Battered to hell by Benfica at home, and then a crushingly annoying horrifying performance against Fiorentina...

Time for a break from FM

Battered to hell by Benfica at home, and then a crushingly annoying horrifying performance against Fiorentina...

Time for a break from FM

awww come on!

Battered to hell by Benfica at home, and then a crushingly annoying horrifying performance against Fiorentina...

Time for a break from FM

It would good if you could put up the analysis of those games too. I always enjoy articles where people post the negatives about their tactics etc. and show how they go about fixing it (Cleon is fantastic in that regard).

Although, I understand if you don't want to analyse the bad games.

Here's the crux of it:

The center halfs at Napoli are not consistent performers lol. Also, the AI 4-2-3-1 Denmark can still be extremely problematic despite playing with a formation that counters it well, with a relatively conservative mentality.

Also, Fiorentina used a 3-5(3cm)-2 formation which is my bogey formation. I simply can't deal with it! Not sure why.

Update #whatever

Okay so back to the drawing board. After a preseason of ups and downs, the first few matches of the season did not go as I planned. We played dreadful football so we need to figure this out.

Basically what I did is construct a new tactic that incorporates some of the previous ideas. So:

- We're still going to counter

- We're still going to be direct

- We're going to utilize AML/AMR (because Napoli have quality in attacking midfield, and I love the 4-1-2-2-1 shape in FM)

- A genuine 4-3-3 is a solid option in Italy because other teams love to pack the midfield, making it hard to do anything. So, I figure what we'll do is get the ball out wide, to our more dangerous players, and have a bit of fun

- Our center backs are ****. I bought Mussachio and he's good but still young. Basically they cannot head the ball or jump. They are relatively quick though. So, I think a medium block defensive line is ideal, but perhaps at some point I'll go for an even higher line. In this case "counter" with "push higher up" seems appropriate.

Here you go! Time to go eat some chili

Damn I haven't had chili in forever

Homemade

Homemade

Awesome

Things looked like they were going well initially. What do you think cause them go wrong?

Awesome

Things looked like they were going well initially. What do you think cause them go wrong?

Things did go well initially. The preseason was actually great, lots of clear cut chances and shots on target. Since the real season began, it has been a complete disaster. Last game we played was a champions league group game at Olympiacos. The ref called a penalty TWICE on the same player (ghoulam) which was completely insane. Basically handed the match to them.

Tactically though I've just been all over the place making tons of little tweaks, because I couldn't settle on one way of playing. The reason being? Napoli's team is actually really unbalanced.

For starters, Napoli struggle with defense. The wide defenders are a joke. The center backs are horrible. And the worst part is Napoli actually have some legitimate talent out on loan, that I cannot recall until the end of the season! What a waste. Players like Gargano and Armero. They'd be incredibly useful but, can't have em'.

The lack of defensive quality has led to me trying out playing a higher line (speed in the back, not much in terms of heading/jumping!) but then also trying a medium block. The lack of true wide players has led me to play lone wide men formations, didn't do much good.

Ultimately it's a disaster so as of now.. The Napoli project is officially closed

I don't think you should give up because it isn't going so well. I have no real idea what the boards expectations are but if you can match those, you will have those players you mentioned back for next season. It's relatively easy to pick up decent defenders for cheap, so you could do a bit of wheeling and dealing in the transfer market too. I like the look of your latest shape, although I really prefer wide players in the midfield strata, for the purpose of counter attacking, they are probably better positioned higher up. One thing to be careful of, as I have used similar tactics to this, although the DLP (d) is probably the perfect role for your tactic in the DM slot, they do tend to sit very very deep, if you have a player with comes deep to fetch the ball ppm, it's ridiculously deep. This can leave quite a gap, although using direct passing it shouldn't be to much of a problem.

One more not, it would be my preference to either have your CM (a) as an AP (a) or your striker as a CF (s) This is only my personal preference from seeing this kind of tactic in action. The AP (a) from midfield is a beautiful role if you can get the right player there, and as you have a CF (s) he will make a lot of runs in behind, which the AP (a) will hopefully feed. Other than that I'd prefer the striker dropping slightly deeper, to help join the CM (a) with him a little better. Obviously depends on the players you have, I know nothing about Napoli other than Diego Maradona played for them :-)

i've never managed to get counter-attacking football consistently working in fm with a "counter" mentality, it only works for me with an attacking mentality like dortumnd when we close down them heavily and once the ball is won quickly deliver it forward

OP, have you tried a winger on support on the same side as a CMa? Not only has the opposition fullback have to stay wide he also has to engage in case of early crosses leaving an even bigger gap for the CMa, it's beautiful with the right CMa.

I tried the same tactic and after the first two firendlies i wasn't satisfied with the movement from my players. After some thought i changed philosophy to balanced and the role of the DM to anchorman (to have at least 2 specialist roles) and there it is. great movement between the lines and some very pleasing stuff from the lads. I forgot to say that i started with Southampton! I think balanced is the way to go especially with lots of deep players cause it creates better movement between the lines if the roles are well defined