4-3-3 Possession Based (Barca / Bayern)

I'm trying to replicate what Barca and Bayern do in real life. Base formation is a 4-3-3, with a lot of possession (aim is to get around 70 percent). Control the ball, wear out the opponent, short passing style.

I'm using Bayern to test this tactics because I'm very familiar with the way they play in real life. Under Pep Guardiola their style resembles what Guardiola's Barca teams did about 3 years ago.

So far it looks promising but it still needs some tweaking.

Here's a little breakdown of the positions:

GK: Should be a sweeper keeper because of the high defensive line. Neuer excels in that role.

DR/DL: Complete wing backs who are solid in defense and help in attack (overlap). Alaba & Lahm are perfect fits.

DCs: The stopper/cover combination, one of them is a bit more aggressive (Boateng) while the other clears the backline (Dante or van Buyten).

DM: Typical ball winner, he's the connection between defense and midfield - Javi Martinez is perfect, Schweinsteiger can help out as well

MCs: Both are playmakers, though one of them (Schweinsteiger) operates from a deeper/central role while the other (Kroos or Thiago) are a bit more advanced. This is supposed to resemble the roles of Xavi and Iniesta for Barca.

IFs: Prototypical inside forwards with Ribery and Robben (Müller/Shaqiri as well). They like to dribble down the line and cut inside to shoot or pass. In real life Ribery is a bit more creative while Robben is more one-dimensional.

SC: This is where I'm still torn. With Götze/Müller I'm using them as a false 9 to bring even more creativity to the pitch and help to create chances. However, against weak opponents (especially at home) I tend to use Mandzukic or Pizarro as advanced forwards to have one 'true' striker up front to convert the chances.

EDIT: trying to upload pictures but I have some technical problems with the uploader. I'll have to use links instead.

Tactics:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2568/wlo1.jpg

Instructions/Shouts:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/6185/rrhi.jpg

Individual Player Instructions:

GK: pass shorter, distribute to defenders

DR/DL: get further forward, shoot less often, close down more

DCs: pass shorter

DM: pass shorter, shoot less often

MCs: dribble less, close down more

IFs: no special instructions

SC: pass shorter, fewer risky passes

Results so far: leading Bundesliga, looks promising but not perfect

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1838/ulwc.jpg

The main problem is that I still don't get enough possession. I usually get around 55-60 percent at home, 50-55 percent away.

Would it help to change the mentality to 'control' or 'attacking' to get more possession?

Would it help to change team intructions to 'higher tempo' to get more pressing?

Here are some match stats:

Frankfurt at home, won 2-1:

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9915/jq4z.jpg

Mainz away, won 1-0:

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/2479/gc4o.jpg

Gladbach at home, won 5-0:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7171/k0qv.jpg

Chelsea, European Super Cup (neutal ground in Prague), won 2-1:

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3194/34ma.jpg

I have been a huge fan of possession play for quite a while now and it's that style of play that keeps me interested in FM. I found control and fluid work very well for me. keep the lower tempo as well as it encourages them to pass it around. I don't use the more expressive shout as it can lead them to do whatever they want and I think the standard for each position was enough for the forwards to still be creative.

As for your tactic, I have tested out loads and personally I use a 3 man midfield with a DLP(S) in the middle and BWM(S) or CM(A) on either side of him. I like having 3 in the middle as I found it to be the best overall in out numbering the oppositions midfield. While the balance of having the same style of players on both sides of the playmaker so that he has similar options in either direction, if one pushes up slightly to the right and one to the left then they naturally make little triangles in the middle.

I would also double check to make sure that none of your players have 'likes to play long passes' PPM and ideally none have 'long shots'. I havent played 14 since the beta but for the past 3 versions of FM I havent been able to use players with these two PPM's (especially DC's with long passes) in my possession formations. Shame really as being a Spurs fan it means that I haven't been able to consistantly play possession and have Dawson or Kaboul in my team.

Do you have any screen shots of individual player pass numbers?

Edit: Forgot to add as well that you have pass into space selected, which I assume is better for attacking almost direct tactics as it will encourage players to run onto the ball with the idea of dribbling with it afterwards. The shorter passing (which you also have selected) should go to feet which will help ball retention.

I have always found possession football very hard to replicate in the Bundesliga because of how direct and high tempo it is.

Here are some screenshots from a CL game against Steaua Bucharest. I played mostly subs and rotational players, won the game 2-0.

Match stats I:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/8483/ko58.jpg

Match stats II:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6170/yoyl.jpg

Passing stats (don't know if it's helpful but it was requested):

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4736/k50r.jpg

Movement overview:

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9185/t63h.jpg

Just let me know which of those screenshots are most useful/telling, so I can upload more of them from other games. I have success winning the games but I'm far from dominating as real-life Bayern do, even against weaker competition.

The third picture was the most helpful, I was looking to see if anyone wasnt particularly contributing to the team passes or misplacing too many but aside from Shaqiri and Mandzukic everyone seems ok.

Do the opposition have a similar passing graph?. If they do then your closing down might be something to look into.

Here is the passing graph from the opposing team in that game:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2629/4zec.jpg

Here are screenshots from the home game against HSV. The 6-1 score is a bit misleading. First half was quite close, then we dominated second half. Two of the goals came from set pieces (penalty and header after free kick).

Stats:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2193/m0bo.jpg

Bayern passing:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4607/g5lb.jpg

HSV passing:

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8206/46ai.jpg

I'm still torn between playing higher tempo (to focus on closing down) or playing lower tempo (to focus on possession). Any feedback/help is appreciated.

Right, it looks like Steaua's midfield did pretty well passing wise in that picture. Like I said in the previous post I havent come across a better variation than 3 central midfielders when it comes to possession. I have seen others use it but it doesn't consistantly work for me. A DLP in a 3 man midfield also has space to drop back into to receive the ball from the back line and the other 2 men in the middle either occupy anyone that tries to follow him or provide an easy pass.

The way I use pressing is that I like my team to press in stages, So the front 3 and my MCL/MCR all close down more. The DLP and the full backs are on the standard setting and the DC's close down less. This allows my team to press but retain some element of shape.

One issue with possession is that you might have to limit or reduce some of the 'tactical creativity' to get more possession. So if you are wanting to give that a go then slight changes you might want to look into are: removing the be 'more expressive' setting so that the players look for the shorter pass first. you can off set this by allowing maybe one or two creative players to try a few pisky passes.

I use my LB/RB both as FB(S). This makes them hold in a line with the midfield and increases the available passing options. Do you find you have more possession when you play an F9?, as he should be dropping back to give another outlet to the midfielders.

I also have all players set to pass short as I want them to look into that pass first, hold the ball and be patient with it.

I use tempo set to lower to focus on possession, I've never really noticed a high tempo having a great effect on the closing down and believe it mainly just dictates how fast your players get the ball forward.

Edit: Are you still playing that counter/balanced style from the first tactics picture?. If so then try a couple of games as control/fluid to see if theres any changes.

Changed to 'Control' style about 5 games ago (somewhere around the Marseille/Dortmund games in the fixtures list), works better than 'Counter' to keep possession up. I'll probably try using lower tempo and removing 'more expressive'. I'll post updates later...

Did I understand you correctly that you recommend moving Martinez up right between the two MCs?

And fluid as well mate, Lets players contribute to more phases of play allowing more passing opportunities.

Yeah, I would move Javi Martinez up so they are a 3. If you want to still use AP/BWM/DLP then just slot him right in the middle. I would personally go BWM(s) either side of a DLP(S), Or Even try Kroos as a CM(A) Bastian DLP(S) with Javi Martinez as BWM (S). Need to see what style of 3 suits you.

I've moved the defensive midfielder (the Javi Martinez / Sergio Busquets role) up to MC between the two playmakers. 'Control' style with lower tempo. I removed 'be more expressive' and 'allow wide players to swap' and made some more minor tweaks.

Works quite well now. I'm usually dominating games, possession is around 60-65 percent. I usually average about 20-5 shots on goal (roughly). One thing I noticed is that the F9 striker (Götze or Müller) seems to perform better than the advanced forward (Mandzukic) in the new tweaked system. I only use Mandzukic as a AF at home against completely inferior opponents, otherwise he gets isolated upfront.

Here are the screenshots of the new tactics...

4-3-3 Bayern possession based tactics:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3691/7wo9.jpg

Player Instructions:

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2808/sjw0.jpg

Results (I've used the new tweaked tactics since the Braunschweig game):

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5526/8dmr.jpg

Any feedback/improvements/help is highly appreciated.

A couple of things to try, playing Fluid instead of balanced should definitely help, especially if you want to attack more. Possibly going to very fluid if you are playing against a weaker team who is just sitting back.

I would also change IF's from attack to support. My understanding of that role with attack is that they stay wide until they receive the ball and then run towards the defence, which is fine but if you put them to support then they run off the ball and cut in behind the defensive line which should give the playmakers you have another 2 targets and provide support to the striker. If you tell them to dribble more then you also get them running at the defence with the ball.

Not sure if it is set as default but if not then I would also make sure that both playmakers and your F9 are set to 'move into channels'. Just stops them being too static and opens up a bit of space for other players to get into.

Then the only other thing to look at is the much higher defensive line. I didn't have chance to look at it too much on FM14 but on 12 when you moved the slider all the way up then your defenders actually played in the oppositions half, sometimes leaving an opposing striker stood behind them on the halfway line. This provided two problems in that when the ball was lost any hoof forward left their player 1 on 1 vs my keeper and the other problem was that it limited the amount of space in which my players had to operate in the oppositions half.

To solve both of these problems I moved the slider down by a couple of clicks. This literally helped me keep alot more clean sheets and improved my possession as my players had more space to move into, with the opposition having more space to cover when trying to get the ball back.

Now, I am aware there are no sliders but if you can watch a couple of matches in 3D (preferably ones you are dominating) and have a look to see where your defenders position themselves with the 'much higher defensive line'. If they are just inside your half then thats fine, if they are in the oppositions half most of the time then I would suggest changing to 'push higher up' to see if that has the same effect.

Would selecting roaming for the two playmakers work instead of move into channels?

I'll try using your suggested roles for the IFs. The F9 and the two playmakers cannot be set to move into channels (probably pre-set for those positions). I could manually set them to 'roam more' but I'm not sure if I really want that. I don't want my basic shape to be completely lost. That's also why I'm a bit hesitant to switch to a more fluent style (might try it against weak opposition, though).

I'm not experiencing any problems with defensive line playing ahead of the halfway-line. Anyway, I will monitor it over the next couple of matches.

Still not satisfied with this. Could one of the tactic-mods chime in?

try to close "pass into space",u will get more possession

I'm going to try this with my Man Utd team, will report back.

Right, tried this in a few games, had good some good results, made even better by the fact that I’ve got a lot of first team injuries at the moment.

Results:

West Brom (A) – Won 2-1 – 60% possession

Aston Vila (A) – Won 3-1 – 67% possession

Chelsea (H) – Drew 0-0 – 54% possession

Newcastle (A) – Lost 2-1 – 63% possession

Arsenal (H) – Drew 1-1 – 62% possession

Swansea (H) – Won 2-0 – 46% possession

Newcastle (A) – Won 2-0 – 53% possession

Quite happy with the draws against Chelsea and Arsenal, considering all the injuries I’ve got. Was great to out-possession Arsenal. Newcastle was just a blip, had a good amount of possession but it just didn’t go to plan. Swansea was the only game I didn’t out-possession the opposition, but that’s because Evra got sent off in the 20^th minute, so I don’t mind that at all.

Will continue to use this tactic, and will report back at a later time once I’ve played a good batch of games.

Here's an update of the formation, if you want to try this, I'd recommend to use this formation:

Base formation:

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1662/1hst.jpg

Player Instructions:

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7223/ubwy.jpg

In addition, I use the following individual positional instructions:

GK: pass shorter, distribute to defenders

DCs: pass shorter

DL/DR: pass shorter, get further forward, close down more, shoot less

BWM: pass shorter, shoot less often

BBM: pass shorter, shoot less often, dribble less, close down more, less risky passes

AP: pass shorter, close down more, move in channels, roam more

IFs: get further forward, shoot less, dribble more, fewer risky passes

AF: pass shorter, dribble less, move in channels, fewer risky passes

Adjustments:

Against far inferior teams at home I use 'Attacking' mentality. I have a slightly modified (more defensive) tactic that I sometimes use if I want to hold on to a lead in the final 15 minutes of a match.

After 20 games with Bayern I was top of the table, 10 points clear with only 1 loss. Now trying how it works with a mid-table Premiership club (West Ham).

@ Harryseas: Thanks for testing. Use the updated version above, it works better for me.

I'd rather not move the other CM to AMC, I find that teams normally score at least one against me, something which I want to cut out. I'm thinking of changing the roles of the DL/DR.

Defending with DL/DR is completely broken by the ME at the moment. SI is already looking into it. If they can't defend anyway, why not using them in attack?

Fair enough, I didn't know that. Still not using the AMC though.

Ok, like I said any feedback is welcome. I'm currently testing the new (AMC) version with West Ham (mixed results in preseason with tactics still unlearned). Keep me updated how the tactics work for your Man Utd team...

This board needs more Barca threads!

Currently playing with Bayern and after some tinkering things work pretty well. With the exception of a dry spell after the winter break (see results) we've been unbeatable.

tactical setup

team instructions

player instructions

keeper: pass it shorter, defender collect

CDs: pass it shorter, mark tighter

DM: mark tighter

IFs: stay wider, get further forward

F9: run wide with ball, roam from position

CWBs, CMs: standard

results

Possession in the games since the winter break: 63%, 69%, 53% (3-0 at Ajax), 57%, 69% (5-0 vs Hannover, end of dry spell), 64% (0-1 at Hoffenheim), 55%, 56%, 51% (0-0 vs Leverkusen)

Against strong teams (Dortmund, Man City) I was usually less offensive and played a little narrower, but I usually kept a high defensive line and kept pressing, at least in the beginning to see how it works. In Manchester I was badly outplayed, so I dropped deep and tried to play faster counter attacking football. But that didn't work either and so I hoped the best -- and got away with a 0-0. Against Dortmund (5-1!!) it worked like a charm and only after a 3-0 lead I dropped deep and let them come. Dortmund had more shots and more possession in the end, but I was still happy

btw: What I don't like is that Dante has scored 9 goals already in 24 appearances. All from corners obviously... Martinez has 7 and he has played quite a bit as central defender, too. But I never changed a thing with the corners, so I put the blame on the ME.

This board needs more Barca threads!

At the moment this is more of a Bayern or possession football thread than a Barca thread. Bayern just happen to have the former Barca coach ;-)

btw: What I don't like is that Dante has scored 9 goals already in 24 appearances. All from corners obviously... Martinez has 7 and he has played quite a bit as central defender, too. But I never changed a thing with the corners, so I put the blame on the ME.

I've read somewhere that there's still a ME glitch that makes it too easy to scrore from low corners to the near post. If the CBs (or at least one of them) are set to the near post, that's probably what's causing the goals.

if exploting the middle, playing wider and with complete wing backs on both sides, i'd change IF instructions from stay wider to sit narrower, specially if they are ribery and goetze. that should increase possession and number and quality of chances. also pay attention to CD and CM roles: they should be complementary. If you CML is an AP (makes more runs), then he leaves more space on his back, thus a stopper or at least a defend duty has to be on his back. contrary, if your CMR is a DLP, your CDR should be cover, as the CMR will sit deeper and if the CDR is a stopper they will be both occupying the same space. up in the striker spot, the false nine will act like cesc when playing in that position, to have a "messi like false nine" you have to use the trequartista role. other things: the DLP does not need any special movement instruction (old fm13 normal instruction), but the AP needs move into channels; roaming really helps possession a lot, specially on the false nine (or trequartista) and the AP; instructions that are working wonders on my DM: pass shorter, close down less (the most important one, you want this player to sit deep and cover while CMs press up), tackle harder. i haven't tried yet, but i have the feeling that the half back will be a better role, as he will be able to cover the stopper's runs forward to chase the ball.

lots of more tweakings can be done, but then you would enter the world of roles&duties asimmetry, and that may be too much (just two simple things, try to set the full back on the side you use the AP to a wing back support instead of a complete wing back. that should give you stability, and better attack and possession, and then set the other side IF to support duty, as his side CM will be a DLP and will be far from him).

I want a symmetrical tactic that uses both, the left and the right side, equally.

I've found the Standard Strategy good for keeping possession.

It's not quite as direct as control but not as cautious as counter. I never really like using counter for anything other than countering.

if exploting the middle, playing wider and with complete wing backs on both sides, i'd change IF instructions from stay wider to sit narrower, specially if they are ribery and goetze. that should increase possession and number and quality of chances. also pay attention to CD and CM roles: they should be complementary. If you CML is an AP (makes more runs), then he leaves more space on his back, thus a stopper or at least a defend duty has to be on his back. contrary, if your CMR is a DLP, your CDR should be cover, as the CMR will sit deeper and if the CDR is a stopper they will be both occupying the same space. up in the striker spot, the false nine will act like cesc when playing in that position, to have a "messi like false nine" you have to use the trequartista role. other things: the DLP does not need any special movement instruction (old fm13 normal instruction), but the AP needs move into channels; roaming really helps possession a lot, specially on the false nine (or trequartista) and the AP; instructions that are working wonders on my DM: pass shorter, close down less (the most important one, you want this player to sit deep and cover while CMs press up), tackle harder. i haven't tried yet, but i have the feeling that the half back will be a better role, as he will be able to cover the stopper's runs forward to chase the ball.

lots of more tweakings can be done, but then you would enter the world of roles&duties asimmetry, and that may be too much (just two simple things, try to set the full back on the side you use the AP to a wing back support instead of a complete wing back. that should give you stability, and better attack and possession, and then set the other side IF to support duty, as his side CM will be a DLP and will be far from him).

First of all, welcome to the forums. This post is very interesting, I will be trying some of the things that you have stated, I've been getting a lot of possession, but anymore that I can get would be appreciated.

Just finished the season, I started using the tactic mid-way through December 2013. I only lost 5 games from that point until the end of the season, and one of them was on penalties in the Champions Cup Final.

Some notable performances:

Man Utd 2-0 Bayern Munich – 65% possession

Liverpool 0-4 Man Utd – 62% possession

Arsenal 0-2 Man Utd – 60% possession

Man Utd 3-0 Arsenal – 58% possession

Blackpool 0-2 Man Utd - 70% possession

Overall a very good tactic, loving having so much possession, will continue to use.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Now it remains to be seen if we can get the tactic to work for smaller/midtable teams as well.

@ Harryseaess: Which version of the tactics did you use exactly? Good job with all those clean sheets. Did you change/tweak anything?

I've moved the defensive midfielder (the Javi Martinez / Sergio Busquets role) up to MC between the two playmakers. 'Control' style with lower tempo. I removed 'be more expressive' and 'allow wide players to swap' and made some more minor tweaks.

Works quite well now. I'm usually dominating games, possession is around 60-65 percent. I usually average about 20-5 shots on goal (roughly). One thing I noticed is that the F9 striker (Götze or Müller) seems to perform better than the advanced forward (Mandzukic) in the new tweaked system. I only use Mandzukic as a AF at home against completely inferior opponents, otherwise he gets isolated upfront.

Here are the screenshots of the new tactics...

4-3-3 Bayern possession based tactics:

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3691/7wo9.jpg

Player Instructions:

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2808/sjw0.jpg

Results (I've used the new tweaked tactics since the Braunschweig game):

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5526/8dmr.jpg

Any feedback/improvements/help is highly appreciated.

First of all, welcome to the forums. This post is very interesting, I will be trying some of the things that you have stated, I've been getting a lot of possession, but anymore that I can get would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot for the welcoming. There was another tip to help possession back in FM13, but at the moment i haven't found the way to set it in FM14, and doubt i will be able. It consisted on setting CD like this:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This allowed CD to play like piqué and mascherano: their first intention is to pass the ball, but if they can't they make a run to clear rivals. also, they make little moves off the ball to offer a good passing outlet. If anyone knows how to set this in FM14 please tell me

I've tested the half-back and it is definitively the best possible role for a possession oriented DM. Instructions were shoot less, close down less, hard tackling and pass shorter. With this role, CD do get a little bit more forward (not as much as with above instructions), and the DM plays a lot between them, both in attack and in defense, allowing wing backs to make higher runs and giving a third first pass outlet for the team.

I want a symmetrical tactic that uses both, the left and the right side, equally

Then why do you have a CM as DLP and a CM as AP? Hehe, seriously, with the asymmetrical roles and duties you still use both sides with the same intensity, but in a different way. it is harder to control though, but IRL, the same way Xavi and Iniesta have different duties, Alves does not play equal to Adriano or Alba on the left side, as well as Neymar does not do the same that Alexis does on the opposite flank. Neymar plays with more freedom to roam to the middle (sit narrower), Alves cuts inside (try setting this in his instructions, you'll be surprised. back in FM13 i set him to move into channels, but now it is -again- not possible ) while Alexis and Alba stay wide open. It is all about occupying space wisely. What needs to be achieved is to have players using space as it is shown in the previous picture.

does anyone see a post of mine with a picture? i tried to upload it twice, gave me no error but can't see it.

EDIT: now i see that as it has an image on it it has to be approved by a moderator. moderator: you will see my post three times, just post one and delete the rest please

First of all, welcome to the forums. This post is very interesting, I will be trying some of the things that you have stated, I've been getting a lot of possession, but anymore that I can get would be appreciated.

Thanks a lot for the welcoming. There was another tip to help possession back in FM13, but at the moment i haven't found the way to set it in FM14, and doubt i will be able. It consisted on setting CD like this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img593/8396/lkta.jpg

This allowed CD to play like piqué and mascherano: their first intention is to pass the ball, but if they can't they make a run to clear rivals. also, they make little moves off the ball to offer a good passing outlet. If anyone knows how to set this in FM14 please tell me

I've tested the half-back and it is definitively the best possible role for a possession oriented DM. Instructions were shoot less, close down less, hard tackling and pass shorter. With this role, CD do get a little bit more forward (not as much as with above instructions), and the DM plays a lot between them, both in attack and in defense, allowing wing backs to make higher runs and giving a third first pass outlet for the team.

I want a symmetrical tactic that uses both, the left and the right side, equally

Then why do you have a CM as DLP and a CM as AP? Hehe, seriously, with the asymmetrical roles and duties you still use both sides with the same intensity, but in a different way. it is harder to control though, but IRL, the same way Xavi and Iniesta have different duties, Alves does not play equal to Adriano or Alba on the left side, as well as Neymar does not do the same that Alexis does on the opposite flank. Neymar plays with more freedom to roam to the middle (sit narrower), Alves cuts inside (try setting this in his instructions, you'll be surprised. back in FM13 i set him to move into channels, but now it is -again- not possible ) while Alexis and Alba stay wide open. It is all about occupying space wisely. What needs to be achieved is to have players using space as it is shown in the previous picture.

This is my first and only league match by now with the tactic. Familiarity is at about 40%.

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/2180/4t9b.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/81/62qi.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/2197/w2cc.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img23/9238/0j9h.jpg

where to download tactic?

No download , but you can easily recreate it off the screenshots in the OP. Should take you about 2 minutes.

Just completed my first full season using the tactic, it was great. I won the league with 100 points, lost 2, drawing 4 and winning the rest. I scored 78 and only conceding 9, which is fantastic.

Here is my best clean sheet run:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u78/harryseaess/11gameswithoutconceding.jpg

It was all going great until the last few games of the season, I lost to Stoke 1-0, then Chelsea 3-0, then Chelsea again 2-0. I get a feeling that they worked out the tactic and how to counter it? Don't know if that's possible though?

Anyway, a great tactic, will continue to try it in my next season.

Just completed my first full season using the tactic, it was great. I won the league with 100 points, lost 2, drawing 4 and winning the rest. I scored 78 and only conceding 9, which is fantastic.

Here is my best clean sheet run:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u78/harryseaess/11gameswithoutconceding.jpg

It was all going great until the last few games of the season, I lost to Stoke 1-0, then Chelsea 3-0, then Chelsea again 2-0. I get a feeling that they worked out the tactic and how to counter it? Don't know if that's possible though?

Anyway, a great tactic, will continue to try it in my next season.

I was struggling to get this tactic going with West Ham, so I was just about to give up on the tactics. After you've been that successful I might reconsider and give it another shot. This time I'll try it with Liverpool.

Are you still using the same version of the tactics or did you tweak it? I really struggled to keep clean sheets. Any advice on game-day adjustments (I guess you play differently when you play against Chelsea compared to playing West Brom)?

Do you still use the Stopper/Cover DC combo?

I was struggling to get this tactic going with West Ham, so I was just about to give up on the tactics. After you've been that successful I might reconsider and give it another shot. This time I'll try it with Liverpool.

Are you still using the same version of the tactics or did you tweak it? I really struggled to keep clean sheets. Any advice on game-day adjustments (I guess you play differently when you play against Chelsea compared to playing West Brom)?

Do you still use the Stopper/Cover DC combo?

Still using the same version, 3 in the middle. Stopper DC behind the AP and Cover DC behind the DLP. I sometimes change the False 9 to a Treq which seems to work well. I occasionally change to standard mentality against stronger opposition. I have my assistant applying opposition instructions.

Apart from that, it's all the same.

Ok, I guess you just need a very good squad to make this work. It did work well with Bayern (for me) & Man Utd (Harry). Did not go well with West Ham for me, mainly because we struggled to dominate possession and were wide open at the back against good teams (also against even teams when playing away). I'm currently testing the tactics with Liverpool (good team but nowhere near the dominace of Bayern/Utd). At the moment it seems to work well (just finished preseason friendlies) against smaller opponents but it remains to be seen how we perform against the big boys from London and Manchester.

One thing I tweaked is that I switched both DC to 'defend' because I conceded a lot of goals when the 'stopper' guy went out to close down and the 'cover' guy was left alone in the centre of defense.

@ Harry: If I continue to struggle against bigger teams, any suggestions for possible tweaks for an alternative 'counter attacking' formation? I'd like to keep the basic shape the same but maybe change playing style more towards sitting deeper to protect the house (only to use for those games where I'd be happy to get a draw).

In my observations I concede a lot of goals from set pieces and when the opponent hits me on the counter attack. My DCs are quite fast (Agger & Skrtel/Sakho) so they're probably not the problem.

@ Harry (again): Do you get your striker to score consistently? I have loads of possession with Liverpool but struggle to get a lot of clear cut chances.

Honestly, I can't get this thing to work. It ONLY works at home when I'm clearly better than the opposing team. As soon as I play away, even at WBA, at Norwich, at Millwall (Cup), I can be lucky if I come away with a draw. I'll usually dominate possession in these games as well (around 65 %) but I always concede 2-3 stupid goals (even with training at Def. Positioning).

I have no idea how you won the title with this formation, I'm desperate for help at the moment. Otherwise I'm considering moving to a 3-4-3 formation because those DL/DR can't defend anyway...

I guess you can't expect teams like West Ham or Norwich to play like a Pep's Barcelona or Bayern.

The ME is unable to reflect an effective possession tactic right now, in my experience. It's sterile possession, inexplicable loss of possession away, or a more fun direct game. I'm opting for the latter. I see fewer stupid last ditch tackles acting as key passes for my team instead of my five star rated wonderkid. Hard to suspend disbelief when the match engine is throwing clangers at you. Direct is much more believable to watch. Just give up for now

I mean, obvious pass is on, but what does lamela do ? He waits, then the opposing defender spazes a tackle, sending the ball to eriksen for a tap on just as iniesta might craft a final pass IRL. Who needs tiki taka when you can have tiki tackle football!

Exactly. Not even works for a bigger team like Liverpool. That's why I concluded that this tactic only works for the very best teams (in their respective leagues) as you have to be superior in midfield without giving away too much space behind the 3 MCs.

I'm pretty sure this tactic has a lot of potential with some tweaking. I think if you play around a bit, maybe move one or two of the MCs to DM it will get better defensively. Anyway, at the moment I'm fed up with always tweaking my tactics and failing because those stupid full backs can't cover anyone. I'll probably get back to this when SI fixes the ME (full backs). If someone else wants to give it a shot, feel free to do so. Any feedback is still welcome...

Ok, I guess you just need a very good squad to make this work. It did work well with Bayern (for me) & Man Utd (Harry). Did not go well with West Ham for me, mainly because we struggled to dominate possession and were wide open at the back against good teams (also against even teams when playing away). I'm currently testing the tactics with Liverpool (good team but nowhere near the dominace of Bayern/Utd). At the moment it seems to work well (just finished preseason friendlies) against smaller opponents but it remains to be seen how we perform against the big boys from London and Manchester.

One thing I tweaked is that I switched both DC to 'defend' because I conceded a lot of goals when the 'stopper' guy went out to close down and the 'cover' guy was left alone in the centre of defense.

@ Harry: If I continue to struggle against bigger teams, any suggestions for possible tweaks for an alternative 'counter attacking' formation? I'd like to keep the basic shape the same but maybe change playing style more towards sitting deeper to protect the house (only to use for those games where I'd be happy to get a draw).

In my observations I concede a lot of goals from set pieces and when the opponent hits me on the counter attack. My DCs are quite fast (Agger & Skrtel/Sakho) so they're probably not the problem.

@ Harry (again): Do you get your striker to score consistently? I have loads of possession with Liverpool but struggle to get a lot of clear cut chances.

The problem I found with this tactic is there isn't really an option to change if you're losing with 15 or so minutes left, that needs to be looked at IMO.

Question 1:

On team instructions turn on 'Stick to Positions', this will mean the MC's will stay there and not go roaming, looking for the ball. Also, possibly drop the BWM into a DM position with the same role, like your first tactic. Select 'Drop Deeper', this won't just mean the defence sits deeper, it's the whole team, therefore making less space for your opposition in your final third. Select 'Be more disciplined', this means the team won't look for hard passes, resulting in not losing the ball as often.

Question 2:

I do, I played Welbeck as a F9 for the whole season, in 43(3) games he scored 31 goals, which I was very happy with, especially with Welbeck, who doesn't have the best stats in the world.