Smallen Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Here we have England beating Poland 1-0 in the group stage at the euros: http://img191.yfrog.com/img191/7380/england10poland.png And here's the table, with England and Poland equal on everything: http://img46.yfrog.com/img46/3533/englandfailtoqualify.jpg Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't England qualify due to beating Poland? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeee17 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baker.simon Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'd say your right, have a look under the competition rules. It may say something under there about it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomer Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three? We have a winner! What were the France - England and France - Poland results? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baker.simon Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three? I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomer Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head? Both scored 5! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 erm, Poland beat France 2-1, and France beat England 3-1. But I don't get what France have to do with it? They came top with a better goal difference Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'm guessing England lost to France, France lost to Poland and Poland lost to England, obviously. Would have thought goals scored came into it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baker.simon Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Both scored 5! I meant France, they scored 7 i think it was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeee17 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head? England and Poland can't be separated based on that, and I'm not sure you can separate one from three, and then the next from the remaining two, if all three are level on points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baker.simon Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Sam_Allen - Try the competition rules. It should say how groups are decided in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomer Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 erm, Poland beat France 2-1, and France beat England 3-1.But I don't get what France have to do with it? They came top with a better goal difference Click the 'rules' tab on the second screenshot you posted? It should state the rules right there. There have been more people on here thinking their league table was odd but it always turned out to be right in the end Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I would like to know how it is decided, because they only play each other once, so how would the head to head rule work? That is, if that is the rule used.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomer Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 On my save it says Goal Difference Goals Scored Results Between Teams Poland scored more in the results between teams, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1936/eurorules.jpg There's the rules. I'm still not getting how France are involved. Surely England qualify as they beat Poland? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zebanumut Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 It was a random pick i guess,AI couldn't sorted it out so it picked poland lol surely somethings wrong there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Yeah you're right, going off the rules Goal Difference : They both have the same Goal Difference Goals Scored : They have both scored the same amount of goals. Results Between Teams : England beat Poland 1-0 so England should qaulify .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomer Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I did a quick google (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:H1IN4R_tzeIJ:www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/fifa_wc_south_africa_2010_regulations_en_14123.pdf+fifa+world+cup+rules+and+regulations&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESisIn4NkvRXMolFWo9rk6K_46T2tSmcevx5tD95hc05tyChWdQZInghPIa4Q5KpXU1CQj4XO_0VWfZu5Ug0B3qtanUZB9ikXbZK89AP_-nWP19l0C72dc9YeLNfLoq3ie3jGCuX&sig=AHIEtbQWfMlGJPfUiHVE1Zesnnf5InBIGQ) and the official rules are as follows: The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows: a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches; b) goal difference in all group matches; c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches. If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows: d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned; e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned; f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned; g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee. I would say that the teams concerned in this are England and Poland only, but the game seems to take France into account as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 As has been already pointed out you need to discount the Portugal games and do a new league table. The only games that count are: France v Poland - (1-2) France v England - (3-1) England v Poland - (1-0) League table is then: Pts GF GA GD France 3 4 3 +1 Poland 3 2 2 0 ------------------------------- England 3 2 3 -1 France & Poland therefore qualify. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkermush Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Ah ok, thats confusing. I don't understand why France are brought into it same as the OP. France have a better goal diffrence than England and Poland so they qaulify. So then you would have thought its between Poland and England, ah but oh well if thats the rules, then thats the rules, unlucky on England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted January 17, 2010 Author Share Posted January 17, 2010 I see Cougar, that clears it up. Fabio lost his job for those weird rules A mod can close this if they wish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terra21 Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 I don't think France have anything to do with why England didn't qualify as the Rules in Tomers post say... the ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows: a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches; b) goal difference in all group matches; c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches. If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows: So I don't think Cougars is right since the rules say the teams concerned, which France isn't in it cause of goal difference. d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned Edit: this is where England should of qualified because they got 3 points from beating Poland ); e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned; (This is where England should of been placed above since they won 1-0) f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned; (not entirely sure what this is, but they both scored 2 and England beat Poland) g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee. Hope that's all right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmeee17 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I did a quick google (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:H1IN4R_tzeIJ:www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/fifa_wc_south_africa_2010_regulations_en_14123.pdf+fifa+world+cup+rules+and+regulations&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESisIn4NkvRXMolFWo9rk6K_46T2tSmcevx5tD95hc05tyChWdQZInghPIa4Q5KpXU1CQj4XO_0VWfZu5Ug0B3qtanUZB9ikXbZK89AP_-nWP19l0C72dc9YeLNfLoq3ie3jGCuX&sig=AHIEtbQWfMlGJPfUiHVE1Zesnnf5InBIGQ) and the official rules are as follows:The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows: a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches; b) goal difference in all group matches; c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches. If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows: d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned; e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned; f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned; g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee. I would say that the teams concerned in this are England and Poland only, but the game seems to take France into account as well. If that is correct, then FM seems to be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 I don't think France have anything to do with why England didn't qualify as the Rules in Tomers post say... the ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows: a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches; b) goal difference in all group matches; c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches. If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria, their rankings will be determined as follows: So I don't think Cougars is right since the rules say the teams concerned, which France isn't in it cause of goal difference. d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between the teams concerned Edit: this is where England should of qualified because they got 3 points from beating Poland ); e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the teams concerned; (This is where England should of been placed above since they won 1-0) f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the teams concerned; (not entirely sure what this is, but they both scored 2 and England beat Poland) g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee. Hope that's all right Thats how FM treats it and why England didn't qualify within the game. As to the question of "Is FM wrong?" Thats another debate and I can see the case for not including France as others have pointed out. I'm can't remember in past instances if all three teams had identical records or if it was just two out of the three. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBKalle Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 The game takes France into account because they also have 6 points. Therefore, as already explained, a "new" table for the group has to be created, and in the new table England is 3rd with the worst GD. The rule is right both in FM and RL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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