Youth Camps...

I've mentioned a few times in other posts, but never had a topic on its own. This is my idea of how the youth set up should run. I'd like some other input on this, and perhaps we can persuade SI to change it

To begin, you need to set up youth camps around the world, (according to rep and finances) to attract the young players. Players join the youth camps aged 13 (they can be "invisible players", otherwise I understand the database would become rather large) - and stay there for the years. At the end of each year when you usually get Regens, you get offered all your 16 year olds from your youth camps, along with Ass Man, Coach and Scout reports. Along side this, you get to see a background of their time in the youth leagues (Games / Goals etc etc, but not essential) - and also make your own mind up. When offered these players (maybe 10, 20, 50, 100 depending on the amount of Youth Camps you have) you get to select the ones you want, and discard the rest to become unnattatched regens, which either retire after no interest (1-2 years, i think) - or get picked up by other clubs, not fortunate enough to have any/many youth camps.

I've mentioned a few times in other posts, but never had a topic on its own. This is my idea of how the youth set up should run. I'd like some other input on this, and perhaps we can persuade SI to change it

To begin, you need to set up youth camps around the world, (according to rep and finances) to attract the young players. Players join the youth camps aged 13 (they can be "invisible players", otherwise I understand the database would become rather large) - and stay there for the years. At the end of each year when you usually get Regens, you get offered all your 16 year olds from your youth camps, along with Ass Man, Coach and Scout reports. Along side this, you get to see a background of their time in the youth leagues (Games / Goals etc etc, but not essential) - and also make your own mind up. When offered these players (maybe 10, 20, 50, 100 depending on the amount of Youth Camps you have) you get to select the ones you want, and discard the rest to become unnattatched regens, which either retire after no interest (1-2 years, i think) - or get picked up by other clubs, not fortunate enough to have any/many youth camps.

A pretty fb idea tbf NepentheZ, didn't see you mention this but clubs without youth camps should still get regens but not get a choice.

That still sounds there will be a lot of extra regens.

I would rather see a report offering, say the best 10 prospects from all camps, or just have them promoted to the youth team in the normal.

Yea I did realize it would create a few too many regens. But if my theory worked, then the lesser teams would pick up these regens, due to them not having enough camps of their own to produce many. As it is, there are a lot of un-attatched Under 20's in my game, (383 that show up in my search screen), and no clubs will take them. If we used my idea, they would get taken by smaller clubs, because they didn't get any of their own.

but these smaller clubs do get their own, pretty much all county teams have an under 18 team, so they would techniqually be their regens ( on the game and in reality), and then professional clubs often have a centre of exellence starting as young as 10

trust me i know as i was a product of brighton when i was younger and better

how do you start youth camps?

You cant.

You don't think it'd be better to have it work realistically, rather than some fantasy of how you'd like it to be?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

You don't think it'd be better to have it work realistically, rather than some fantasy of how you'd like it to be? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm 100% certain that this is far from realistic.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

You don't think it'd be better to have it work realistically, rather than some fantasy of how you'd like it to be? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm 100% certain that this is far from realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying there are no such thing as youth camps, but they are a tiny aspect of how youth teams work at most clubs.

You can count the clubs that have a system like this on the fingers of one hand.

IRL I think they are referred to as Acadamies.

Remember Saints having one in Australia, only one player IIRC made it over to England to join us, and he never made the grade and is probably playing lower leagues now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

You don't think it'd be better to have it work realistically, rather than some fantasy of how you'd like it to be? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm 100% certain that this is far from realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying there are no such thing as youth camps, but they are a tiny aspect of how youth teams work at most clubs.

You can count the clubs that have a system like this on the fingers of one hand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm aware that not every club has one, which is why I referred to Rep/Finances as a key factor.

Regardless of if my idea is realistic or not, my point is, the way it currently is, is also unrealistic. Otherwise, FM's idea of "realism" in this area of the game, is that on the 20th June every season, every team in England gets handed 8-12 youth players, form no where. Every team is the key here. Arsenal - 10 Regens. AFC Wimbledon - 10 regens. How can that be realistic? Why would some seasons there not be 30 regens, or 3 regens. Why do clubs far lower in the ladder get the same treatment in regards to youth, as the World clubs like Man You, Arsenal, Chelsea etc? Thats completely unrealistic.

I want to be able to have more than 8 scouts... I want one for every nation I find interesting.

Argentina, Brazil, Spain, Germany, England, France, Italy, Ivory Coast, Cameroon, Chile, Ireland, N.Ireland, Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Netherlands.

8 coaches just doesn't cut it when I'm looking for talent

How about this:

1) You ask the board for a new feeder club, and have the option to specify in which region of the world, you'll like it to bee in.

2) When the board come back with the clubs interested, and states how much money they are willing use on the feederclub every year -you as the manager then gets to specify:

a) x amount of the money -that the feederclub is allowed to use on upgrading their youth facilities

b) x amount of the money -that the feederclub is allowed to use on signing players under the age og 18

-that way you get some control on what your feederclub use the money you pay it on -And you get a better chaance that the feederclub produces players worth signing for your own club (because they constantly upgrades their youth facilities -and have some money to sign any young player the think have some talent)

forgot to say:

They idea being that the feederclub is only allowed to use the money in the way you have specifyed it

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave C:

You don't think it'd be better to have it work realistically, rather than some fantasy of how you'd like it to be? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm 100% certain that this is far from realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying there are no such thing as youth camps, but they are a tiny aspect of how youth teams work at most clubs.

You can count the clubs that have a system like this on the fingers of one hand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm aware that not every club has one, which is why I referred to Rep/Finances as a key factor.

Regardless of if my idea is realistic or not, my point is, the way it currently is, is also unrealistic. Otherwise, FM's idea of "realism" in this area of the game, is that on the 20th June every season, every team in England gets handed 8-12 youth players, form no where. Every team is the key here. Arsenal - 10 Regens. AFC Wimbledon - 10 regens. How can that be realistic? Why would some seasons there not be 30 regens, or 3 regens. Why do clubs far lower in the ladder get the same treatment in regards to youth, as the World clubs like Man You, Arsenal, Chelsea etc? Thats completely unrealistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For me its more realistic than your idea (no disrespect). Top clubs dont just get handed top players from "youth camps" all around the world. They scout and scout and buy players to fill their U18's and Reserves. Every week you hear new stories about Liverpool scouts watching a young fullback from Rochdale, or a Chelsea scout recommending a kid from Havant & Waterlooville who is banging them in at youth level.

The majority of top clubs have reserves and youth teams filled with players that will never play top flight football. Thats the way it works.

I understand you may feel that the current model may not be perfect, but i wouldnt want to go to something so far removed from real life as you are suggesting.

boney

I appreciate your comments. It's ok if you don't like my idea - I'm not expecting everyone to jump on me and be like "yea man, thats awesome" - It was just a thought, in hope that a proper discussion would break out to get some views on where we are with this.

I understand what you are talking about regarding Scouts, and I'm fully aware that happens IRL, but its something again in FM that either doesn't work, or takes on hell of a lot of effort to pull of. There are many reasons for this, mainly because scouting is such a chore, and scouts rarely come back with many players (well, my scouts at least), but also, I've been allowed only 2 scouts for 26 seasons. My reputation of the club I managed (Knockbreda) has increased massively, since I now reach the CL Group Stages every year, but I'm still not allowed more than 2 scouts. (Although I do have 3, when I try to sign more, the board block it). My finances are very healthy, my rep is high, yet I still can't find good young players.

I still think my idea is good. I think that youth camps around the world should be implemented, regardless of what effect it has on youth regens each season, or at the VERY least, I would like to "leave" scouts in a country, constantly scouting 365 days a year until I say otherwise.

Maybe the fact you only are allowed 2 scouts (3 if you push the board ) is more of a 'reputation' or in-game issue.

Possibly being able to change this in the future would be a good idea. Like we can now, adjusting our finances to alter funds or wage budgets, maybe we could have a scouting/youth budget we can adjust. The more funds, the more scouts, the more youth coaches, the more cash towards facilities. What do you reckon?

I understand what you are saying about the youth reports too. I spent years at Crewe and Preston, and spent vast unspeakable hours scouring every club in the league, reserves, youth teams, analysing reports trying to find young players good enough to make it into my teams. Its a difficult and long winded task, much like it is in real life i guess. I agree this area could be more user friendly, but i wouldnt want it to become 'easy' to find players or 'easy' to get good youth players promoted. Im currently unsure of the best way forward here.

Im just afraid with the Youth Camp idea that the top clubs will get to cherry pick the best young players at the start of every season and the rest will just pick up the hand-me-downs. After a while things will be pretty unbalanced. Im happy with an even spread at the moment, every once in a while a player turns up at a lower league club that you just 'know' will go onto greater things. I wouldnt want to loose this.

I would rather see things like "youth camps" become an abstraction in the assignment of regens to a club rather than something that you have to actively create.

Things could become very cumbersome otherwise.

Future stars should instead be assigned (or highlighted to your scouts) on the basis of your local scouting knowledge, proximity to your club and your club reputation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dail:

How about this:

1) You ask the board for a new feeder club, and have the option to specify in which region of the world, you'll like it to bee in.

2) When the board come back with the clubs interested, and states how much money they are willing use on the feederclub every year -you as the manager then gets to specify:

a) x amount of the money -that the feederclub is allowed to use on upgrading their youth facilities

b) x amount of the money -that the feederclub is allowed to use on signing players under the age og 18

-that way you get some control on what your feederclub use the money you pay it on -And you get a better chaance that the feederclub produces players worth signing for your own club (because they constantly upgrades their youth facilities -and have some money to sign any young player the think have some talent) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the original idea is very good, but this is definetly an improvement on it and i would like to see this in the game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by boneykingofnowhere:

Maybe the fact you only are allowed 2 scouts (3 if you push the board ) is more of a 'reputation' or in-game issue.

Possibly being able to change this in the future would be a good idea. Like we can now, adjusting our finances to alter funds or wage budgets, maybe we could have a scouting/youth budget we can adjust. The more funds, the more scouts, the more youth coaches, the more cash towards facilities. What do you reckon?

I understand what you are saying about the youth reports too. I spent years at Crewe and Preston, and spent vast unspeakable hours scouring every club in the league, reserves, youth teams, analysing reports trying to find young players good enough to make it into my teams. Its a difficult and long winded task, much like it is in real life i guess. I agree this area could be more user friendly, but i wouldnt want it to become 'easy' to find players or 'easy' to get good youth players promoted. Im currently unsure of the best way forward here.

Im just afraid with the Youth Camp idea that the top clubs will get to cherry pick the best young players at the start of every season and the rest will just pick up the hand-me-downs. After a while things will be pretty unbalanced. Im happy with an even spread at the moment, every once in a while a player turns up at a lower league club that you just 'know' will go onto greater things. I wouldnt want to loose this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only difference IRL is, that you get scouts to do all that for you. I'm sure my rep is high, like I say, I can actually attract decent players, and have plenty of money in the bank, and I play in the CL Group stages every season, yet the board sill wont let me have more than 2 scouts, and 4 coaches. The also wont let me scout outside of mainland Europe.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:

Regardless of if my idea is realistic or not, my point is, the way it currently is, is also unrealistic. Otherwise, FM's idea of "realism" in this area of the game, is that on the 20th June every season, every team in England gets handed 8-12 youth players, form no where. Every team is the key here. Arsenal - 10 Regens. AFC Wimbledon - 10 regens. How can that be realistic? Why would some seasons there not be 30 regens, or 3 regens. Why do clubs far lower in the ladder get the same treatment in regards to youth, as the World clubs like Man You, Arsenal, Chelsea etc? Thats completely unrealistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life, in England at any rate, clubs have a youth academy/centre of excellence that runs teams from U16 down to U11 (sometimes lower, as low as U6). Clubs right down into non-league have this same set-up, and therefore have a pool of players to bring through every year.

So the reason AFC Wimbledon get treated the same as Arsenal is that, in reality, that's how it is. Not unrealistic at all.

The youth players that "appear from nowhere" are the players coming through from your own youth academy.

Now, in real life, teams like Man Utd augment this by also scouting other clubs and contracting youth players from elsewhere, which is what you can also do in FM.

It's not perfect, and there are changes I'd like to see, but it's a decent representation of real life.