If only i had a pound everytime...

...your team dominates and loses to an inferior team on this game i'd be rich!

How exactly does fm operate? can someone please tell me...

After starting my first save with QPR i wanted to start up a game with my beloved Arsenal as i always do annually with each FM release. In doing this, i noticed something that bugged me a lot with last years FM and continues to do the same this year.

With my QPR save the assistant manager used to say in the meetings how he was pleased with how we perform against bigger teams as i easily won the championship with four games to spare - breaking various records along the way. The thing i did not like about this was my team would virtually always beat better teams then ourselves but in reverse would get beaten by a smaller team in some cliche fashion.

Moving onto my Arsenal save i have won all my 9 preseason games bar 1 and have made a good start to the season dominating spurs, everton and WBA putting me in 1st place. My morale is all green and i headed into the away match at 17th placed blackpool in obvious good form. However, when i play them i am dominating them completely with 62% posession and 9 shots in the first half but i go in at half time 1 nil down. I look to my assistant manager and he has the cheek to say "Despite the scoreline, statistics suggest we are control of the match, keeping possession well".

I proceed to give my teamtalk of "you are outplaying them everywhere" and when the game restarts Marlon Harewood goes on to complete a hat-trick in respose to my equiliser.

Now, i'm fine with small teams turning over big teams but what more could i have done if i was dominating the match the way i was, yet still, the man who i have specifically given instructions to my team to mark single handedly destroys me? Why does this game have this whole cliche thing: motivated against big teams complacent against small teams? Sorry this just breaks the game for me coz apart from all the instructions i gave and obvious domination what more could i have done to prevent such a loss?

Regardless of my tactics, i was dominating, why is it that in these situations there seems to be nothing you can do about it? Hopefully, queue the wise FM answers to this question...

Did you watch Man City v Everton by any chance?

How many times has it actually happened? Once?

This sort of thing happens all the time in football, even tonight, Man City had something like 22 attempts at goal to Everton's 4 or 5, two-thirds possession and 11 corners to nil, yet they still lose. Is Mancini going to throw his toys out of the pram and blame everyone but himself?

I'd personally say you are playing too attacking. Just because you are dominating the game doesn't mean you are dominating play in dangerous areas. Try playing standard rather than attacking, try to let them have the ball and hit them on the break, if you have 10 players in there half and they have parked the bus and hitting you on the break then you will lose games like this.

Try telling them that you expect a won, tell them they aren't playing well enough, don't sympathise with them, give them a good kicking at half time, then praise them to the heavens when they win the match, it's better than being nice to them and walking awry with a loss.

I totally agree with everything you say this always happens to me also you can beat all the big teams apart from the small teams which makes me believe that it is scripted because it always follows a particular pattern. I believe FM should not have all this stupid cliches in it because it is a game not real life and I think they are forgetting that yes I want it to be realistic but not over the top because at the same time I want it to be fun. One last thing SI can you stop adding new features in the game and just focus on making the managerial and ME better please you say you listen to us but you make the same errors every year.

Yes it does happen a lot but not to the same team every game it it spread out between all the matches each week.

i've had this same complaint at times as well, but i rotate my squad and i have been guilty of taking these teams too lightly as well. i would start players who needed a match and have a 20th place side steal a win. i have found that playing my highest determination players in matches like these helps me win these..... and since i have a squad of kids (average age is 24) i'm not harsh with the team talks...

here's some advice from wwfan which i have found helpful in turning these results around

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/242575-How-to-Play-FM-A-(Very)-Short-Guide-to-Match-Preparation-Strategies-and-Motivation?highlight=wwfan

I'd personally say you are playing too attacking. Just because you are dominating the game doesn't mean you are dominating play in dangerous areas. Try playing standard rather than attacking, try to let them have the ball and hit them on the break, if you have 10 players in there half and they have parked the bus and hitting you on the break then you will lose games like this.

Try telling them that you expect a won, tell them they aren't playing well enough, don't sympathise with them, give them a good kicking at half time, then praise them to the heavens when they win the match, it's better than being nice to them and walking awry with a loss.

thanks for the ideas but i am playing with everything on standard im not playing attacking. Since playing with everything basically on normal this is the best ive seen any of my teams play and not just because its arsenal but my general play is quite varied and dangerous.

I know what your saying about grilling them and not bring nice but ive been in this situation before and there arent many approaches that i havent tried and there certainly doesnt feel like there are many game changing options especially since i was losing at half time....i would have to chase the game anyway and when your away on fm it just seems like flipping the result on its head is almost impossible, although i have done it before but would consider that lucky. lol

I totally agree with everything you say this always happens to me also you can beat all the big teams apart from the small teams which makes me believe that it is scripted because it always follows a particular pattern. I believe FM should not have all this stupid cliches in it because it is a game not real life and I think they are forgetting that yes I want it to be realistic but not over the top because at the same time I want it to be fun. One last thing SI can you stop adding new features in the game and just focus on making the managerial and ME better please you say you listen to us but you make the same errors every year.

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. The game is not scripted, that's just dumb, you can't script a sandbox game, there are literally billions of permutations.

If the sane thing happens over and over again to you then there is only one thing at fault, your tactics and team talks.

thanks for the ideas but i am playing with everything on standard im not playing attacking. Since playing with everything basically on normal this is the best ive seen any of my teams play and not just because its arsenal but my general play is quite varied and dangerous.

maybe try starting on counter and get ball forward. I'm alsobplsying as arsenal this year and my biggest problem is that my team will happily sit there dominating possession in the middle of the pitch and I come out with wonderful possession stats and bugger all goals.

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. The game is not scripted, that's just dumb, you can't script a sandbox game, there are literally billions of permutations.

If the sane thing happens over and over again to you then there is only one thing at fault, your tactics and team talks.

When I say the same thing happens over and over again I mean that every time the game wants to score against me they just cross it into my box and my players stand still and one of there plyers comes sliding in and scores this happens nearly every two games to me. I'm celtic and all the bars of team preparation is full bars and no it is not my tactics because I am winning bt I have not had a clean sheet for ages plus this is my opinion I hate how every on this forum thinks they are some sort of master at this game. All I ever hear o its your tactics that is such a stupid statement especially when you don't no what my tactics are.

How many times has it actually happened? Once?

This sort of thing happens all the time in football, even tonight, Man City had something like 22 attempts at goal to Everton's 4 or 5, two-thirds possession and 11 corners to nil, yet they still lose. Is Mancini going to throw his toys out of the pram and blame everyone but himself?

weren't city already in a losing position early in the game? I'm sure everton never expected to win the match and this is a steal for them.

Anyway, why are we comparing the game to such a convenient real life instance? It's a game and represents a fantasy world. The fact my assistant(the game) recognises i am dominating the match tells me i am doing a lot right. However, what real tools are there in the game to change the outcome? yeah i know there are shouts etc but how in depth are they really? You make it sound so simple comparing my scenario to man city but they are a team that lacks cohesion where as my team is the opposite and doesn't have a want-away striker as its icon.

Oh, and this happens a lot. In fact, everytime im in a situation where my team can become complacent, they do. It's almost like an obstacle being put in your way on purpose.

Maybe you can give me tips on how to avoid such a performance coz nothing thus far has worked at changing the negative outcome i usually get.

Did you watch Man City v Everton by any chance?

no, sorry mate. why, do they no the answer to the questions in my original post?

When I say the same thing happens over and over again I mean that every time the game wants to score against me they just cross it into my box and my players stand still and one of there plyers comes sliding in and scores this happens nearly every two games to me. I'm celtic and all the bars of team preparation is full bars and no it is not my tactics because I am winning bt I have not haas a clean sheet for ages plus this is my opine I hate how every on this forum thinks they are some sort of master at this game. All I ever hear o its your tactics that is such a stupid statement especially when you don't no what my tactics are.

I'm far from a tactical genius, I've won the league, but with arsenal that hardly says much.

The thing is you say 'when the game wants to score against me' - again ridiculous, the game doesn't want anything, it's programmer to act in a certain way, that means if it keeps happening to you then there is a hole in your tactical set up that the game is exploiting. I don't have to know what your tactics are, it's simply the case.

If everyone was experiencing this it would be a bug, they aren't, therefore the only thing left over is your input, sorry that's simply how it is.

no, sorry mate. why, do they no the answer to the questions in my original post?

Most definately.

i've had this same complaint at times as well, but i rotate my squad and i have been guilty of taking these teams too lightly as well. i would start players who needed a match and have a 20th place side steal a win. i have found that playing my highest determination players in matches like these helps me win these..... and since i have a squad of kids (average age is 24) i'm not harsh with the team talks...

here's some advice from wwfan which i have found helpful in turning these results around

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/242575-How-to-Play-FM-A-(Very)-Short-Guide-to-Match-Preparation-Strategies-and-Motivation?highlight=wwfan

Thanks mate, this is the kind of thing i need. I will happily admit that maybe i'm missing some knowledge on how to deal with these situations. cheers

Most definately.

lol, what about the after my first paragraph?

lol, what about the after my first paragraph?

What he means is that man city battered everton, but still lost. It doesn't answer your question.

Mentioning the Man City game just shows you don't understand the game too well.

Man City have literally 0 morale and 0 team blend and they aren't too much better than Everton man for man. Obviously they can't do anything. They're useless.

It's not comparable to a good morale, well blended side, playing against markedly inferior opposition.

lol, what about the after my first paragraph?

Well, you would have thought we had planned for Cahill after the last 3 years - being there main goal threat and primarily scoring from his head. 3 minutes in...

From your post "yet still, the man who i have specifically given instructions to my team to mark single handedly destroys me?"

Maidel tell me this say if I lose and restart the game which I admit I have done a couple of times y is it that I have to ply the match about 5 times and each one of these times I change my formation and tactics the same thing happens each time and I endup losing. Even when I win I restart it again and keep the tactics which I used to beat the team bt this time they beat me again so reload again and they beat me even although they are using the same formationhow is this possible simple it does nt want me to win that match which makes me believe it is scripted SI have programmed this in such a way certain things happen regardless of what ur tactics are. I am not the only one who has tried this I have read many threads where people have said the same thing. I still love and enjoy the game but I am not going to sit here sying dis is da best thing ever cos there is a lot of room for improvement and I also believe SI need some strong competition so that they up there game.

Mentioning the Man City game just shows you don't understand the game too well.

Man City have literally 0 morale and 0 team blend and they aren't too much better than Everton man for man. Obviously they can't do anything. They're useless.

It's not comparable to a good morale, well blended side, playing against markedly inferior opposition.

This is precisely my point as to why i see no point in using them as an example in this instance. although, i wouldn't go as far to say they are useless...just VERY expensive flops

Well, you would have thought we had planned for Cahill after the last 3 years - being there main goal threat and primarily scoring from his head. 3 minutes in...

From your post "yet still, the man who i have specifically given instructions to my team to mark single handedly destroys me?"

but in my situation the person in question is washed up Marlon harewood and as a game i have not had 3 years to prepare for him.

Again, we seem to be using real life examples that cannot be mapped directly onto the sitaution in a virtual game of football manager...

Maidel tell me this say if I lose and restart the game which I admit I have done a couple of times y is it that I have to ply the match about 5 times and each one of these times I change my formation and tactics the same thing happens each time and I endup losing. Even when I win I restart it again and keep the tactics which I used to beat the team bt this time they beat me again so reload again and they beat me even although they are using the same formationhow is this possible simple it does nt want me to win that match which makes me believe it is scripted SI have programmed this in such a way certain things happen regardless of what ur tactics are. I am not the only one who has tried this I have read many threads where people have said the same thing. I still love and enjoy the game but I am not going to sit here sying dis is da best thing ever cos there is a lot of room for improvement and I also believe SI need some strong competition so that they up there game.

Because tactics aren't the only thing that affects the team, many things are inlace weeks in advance and reloading to the day before the match won't change any of those things.

For example, moral. No matter how many timesyou play that game the moral of your players won't change. Also how you or your assistant handle team talks and press conferences over the whole season will influence how your players react months later. Telling your players each game that they re wonderful or praising them at the wrong time will affect how they play and that's fixed and you can play that game 100 timescale never get the result you want.

But maidel wen I did the morale of my starting 11 was good and team talk and press conferences are basic there is not even a lot to say in them especially team talk it has been the same for years now it defo needs improving.

no, sorry mate. why, do they no the answer to the questions in my original post?

No. But it shows that a team that absolutely dominates a match can still lose. Its no big conspiracy against you. Its not even the fact you have done anything wrong. It just happens sometimes. Get over it and move on.

But maidel wen I did the morale of my starting 11 was good and team talk and press conferences are basic there is not even a lot to say in them especially team talk it has been the same for years now it defo needs improving.

That's not the same argument. Yes they are basic, but in real life managers get asked the same questions over and over. No matter how basic you think it is the answers given affect the team massively.

I'm sorry you can't seem to accept that the game isn't cheating you, but it's the same for everyone, and 99% of people don't have your issue.

Did you checked your assistant feedback pre-match for complacency?

The fact is that there are many variables that affect the outcome of a game, since the basic tactics,morale,team talk,form.. you just have to try to do everything to push the odds in your favour.. get the fittest and happiest players to start, demand more from them when playing against a minnow, exploit a nervous/tired defender,etc.

And even doing everything right you will still lose or draw one game or another that you shouldn't.. now if it's happening constantly you just have to look up, maybe your not being demanding enough, maybe that opponents particular formation causes trouble to your formation,etc.

Mentioning the Man City game just shows you don't understand the game too well.

Man City have literally 0 morale and 0 team blend and they aren't too much better than Everton man for man. Obviously they can't do anything. They're useless.

It's not comparable to a good morale, well blended side, playing against markedly inferior opposition.

Yes, they are so useless, they sit 2 pts off the top of the table.

If your opinions of what the game should produce are equally intelligently thought-out, it's no wonder the game baffles you.

As to the OP:

The "game" has no intent. Indeed, calling it a "game" is a bit misleading; it's more a "toy" than a game. That is, there is no definite end goal, no finish line, so to speak. Everyone who plays with it conceives their own purpose, and determines their own goals. In this, it's much more like The Sims than something like Civ. So unlike Civ, where the game does, indeed, take actions designed to make it hard for you to win, this software doesn't work to make you lose games, or try to keep you from winning your league, or stop you from acquiring players you want, etc. Yes, from time to time, a sequence of remembered events will make it seem to you like you are always losing to teams who conveniently happen to score at the last minute, or just the right way, despite everything you try. But that's a combination of two things: the well-known phenomenom of selective remembering (you only remember when something bad happens, and forget all the times it didn't) with the simple fact that, with proper counter-tactics, your own tactical set-up, combined with the team you are fielding, can result in a specific type of opposition score and/or own team failure.

So, if a team is always managing to split your defenders right up the middle to score, try varying your tactics. You might try changing how restricted the defenders are in movement away from their nominal position. You might try putting five at the back, not four. You might try finding a 'keeper who is better at coming off his line to snuff out such chances (which, btw, happen a LOT in real games). You might get better markers for your center-backs. There are literally hundreds of possible fixes!

We CAN deduce one thing from general commentary here on the Board: since it isn't the case that everyone has these issues, indeed, not even a significantly large portion of users, it's not a software issue (else everyone would be complaining about it, like they are with the tactics glitch). And, as Albert Einstein so pithily put it, doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is the definition of a state of mind most of us try to avoid.

To the original poster: Have a read of this thread... it will help you understand what's going on and what this game is recreating.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/238682-Explanation-of-the-Impact-of-Player-Attributes-During-Match-Play-*Updated-for-FM11*

Like real football, the best team doesn't always win.

My experience with this year's FM has been a painful one to say the least. I lost games with some of the worst scores since I started playing and failed horribly with teams I have done very well before.... that is until I figured out what exactly I'm supposed to be doing. For starters, despite how annoying it is, I suggest you go to press conferences especially when your team is enjoying a good run of form or has superb morale. Telling them to keep their feet on the ground, not exaggerating your chances of keeping a winning streak and not giving your team as certain favorites will make your players more cautious when approaching the match. Secondly, when the opposition manager makes a comment about your team, or when you're facing powerful teams away, ALWAYS put pressure on their team. Usually choosing the options regarding "Strength of playing squad" and selecting "Manager X has such a great squad, the pressure must be on him to succeed" has given me great results. After doing these basic preparations I have almost NEVER underperformed while playing against a much weaker side.

Thirdly, don't forget about match preparation. I know a lot of people, even in the tactics forum, suggest you set the match preparation on something and let it rest for the whole season. I don't agree with this. I switch my match preparation 1-3 days before every match accordingly. If I'm playing against a series of better teams I'll leave it on defending set pieces but if I'm constantly being forced to play against mid-level teams, low-level teams, etc. I change the match preparation accordingly. When you're playing against a much weaker side you should AT LEAST be doing attacking set pieces if not attacking movement. Similarly when playing against better sides I suggest you either do defense movement or defending set pieces, perhaps even attacking set pieces if you know you'll be going on the counter attack often.

Finally, there's a myriad of other things, outside of your tactics and players that influence the way the game plays. Personally I see no reason to start every game on attacking or overload, control is enough but standard might also do. You might've had 9-10 shots against their 3 but if those 10 shots were all rushed because there's a constant need to attack then you're not getting anywhere. What's more if the pitch is crap, or if it's too small or too narrow you'll also get ripped to pieces if the AI realizes this and exploits it accordingly. Not to mention football also involves luck (in this case, coded luck) which you just simply can't get enough of. If that luck is all bad then there's nothing much you can do except rotate.

Try those things above, they worked for me. I can honestly say that before doing that I was completely outmatched by the AI, but since I started paying attention to the little details things have picked up considerably. For the first time since I started playing I actually won the league twice in a row.

weren't city already in a losing position early in the game? I'm sure everton never expected to win the match and this is a steal for them.

Anyway, why are we comparing the game to such a convenient real life instance? It's a game and represents a fantasy world. The fact my assistant(the game) recognises i am dominating the match tells me i am doing a lot right. However, what real tools are there in the game to change the outcome? yeah i know there are shouts etc but how in depth are they really? You make it sound so simple comparing my scenario to man city but they are a team that lacks cohesion where as my team is the opposite and doesn't have a want-away striker as its icon.

Oh, and this happens a lot. In fact, everytime im in a situation where my team can become complacent, they do. It's almost like an obstacle being put in your way on purpose.

Maybe you can give me tips on how to avoid such a performance coz nothing thus far has worked at changing the negative outcome i usually get.

But how many times does this happen to you? Seriously, let's see some statistics. I recently thought the game might be against me with regards to converting CCCs into goals after a couple of games where I dominated but still lost, but after doing an in-depth analysis I found that my record for converting them was actually much better than the AI.

Sometimes you can have a game like this and it sticks in your mind, then you will dominate the next 9 and win them all and then you have another where you dominate but lose 1-0, and your mind will forget the 9 in between and just remember the last time it happened to you. Also, the fact that these 2 occurrences could happen in the same session maybe just 2 hours apart makes it seem like it happens more to you than it does to teams in real life. But it's only because teams in real life take about 5 or 6 weeks to play this many games and it's easier to forget the last time it happened to them.

And where you say it's a game and shouldn't be compared to real life, that's a load of rubbish because the majority of people who buy this 'game' actually want it to be more realistic, if you just went in and beat everyone 5-0 then it would get ridiculously boring and nobody with any brain cells would actually want to play any more because there would be no challenge.

I want Football Manager to give me the chance to feel as much like a football manager as possible, and the occasional shock result are part and parcel of the game.

Thanks for your responses guys, a lot of food for thought and since going back to may arsenal save and taking into consideration some of the things you guys have said, my team has been fautless.

@ Kenco, I'm not saying the game shouldn't be realistic im simply saying that the comparisons between it and real life are neither here nor there. As an example, if i switch on FM and decide i want to be Man City i don't expect to face the problems that occur exactly the same as real llife as the game becomes pointless and would therefore be following a script. However, the challenge i do want is having to get high profile players to blend correctly and should be the same with any team that has a bunch of new players even if the team is in league 1.

The occasional shock result is fine by me it's just that in terms of it being a game you should be able to make sure your team is always motivated and focused simply because it is a game.

Put it this way, my mentality in real life is never to become complacent so as "I want Football Manager to give me the chance to feel as much like a football manager as possible" too i should be able to impose this ideology on the game without the use of that FMRTE cheat thingy...