A question regarding dynamic league rep

Whilst re-reading a ton of previews for FM11, I began wondering about the effects of dynamic league reputations outside of europe.

Say I was manager of Belgrano in Argentina, Kaiser Chiefs in South Africa or Perak FA in Malaysia and I won a vast amount of my respective league titles, cup titles and continental titles, would success against european teams in the world club cup raise the reputation of the leagues and competitions I was involved with?

If so, I can see some interesting long-term game ideas for FM11 in the some of the less developed footballing countries.

What does everyone else think?

Whilst re-reading a ton of previews for FM11, I began wondering about the effects of dynamic league reputations outside of europe.

Say I was manager of Belgrano in Argentina, Kaiser Chiefs in South Africa or Perak FA in Malaysia and I won a vast amount of my respective league titles, cup titles and continental titles, would success against european teams in the world club cup raise the reputation of the leagues and competitions I was involved with?

If so, I can see some interesting long-term game ideas for FM11 in the some of the less developed footballing countries.

What does everyone else think?

Yes, you are correct. You can make the world's best football league out of any league in the world.

I think it's an outstanding addition. If combined with dynamic rivarly it would add a whole new dimension to the game. So, let's hope dynamic rivarly is in FM11.

I'm also interested in this. I'm assuming that with enough time and success it will be possible to make a tiny European nation the biggest club in the world, but what about clubs from other nations? Would I be able to make a club from India the biggest club in the world, or just in Asia?

I'm guessing that I won't get an answer to this until someone actually tries it with FM2011.

Edit: I take that back! So it is possible?

I was thinking of making India a footballing super power too if this is possible. Try and make something comparable to the cricket premier league.

Dynamic rivalries would be great but as they haven't been announced i'm guessing we won't be getting this year. If there's as much clamouring for it as there was dynamic league rep though i'm sure SI will take notice again.

If I did push India into becoming the biggest league in the world, it'd be nice if other Asian leagues responded in a similarly positive way as they grow stronger off the bigger and better competition caused by any Indian successes.

I think theoretically it will be possible. But I also reckon it has to tie in with continental reputation.

Like how Europe is more dominant in football than say, Asia. This is reflected in the number of spots at the World Cup each continent get.

If there is dynamic continental reputation (difficult I reckon) then it might be a bit more realistic.

I'm also interested in this. I'm assuming that with enough time and success it will be possible to make a tiny European nation the biggest club in the world, but what about clubs from other nations? Would I be able to make a club from India the biggest club in the world, or just in Asia?

I'm guessing that I won't get an answer to this until someone actually tries it with FM2011.

Edit: I take that back! So it is possible?

Yes, it will be possible to make any nation, league, club the greatest in the world, though in at least 20-30 years IMO.

If you were manager of Belgrano in Argentina, you'd have problems with going down.

If you were manager of Belgrano in Argentina, you'd have problems with going down.

I randomly got offered the job after quitting Preston North End after 102 days in FM10 and somehow managed to turn them around. I'm now gonna make Argentina a destination on all my big games! Love it.

Yes, it will be possible to make any nation, league, club the greatest in the world, though in at least 20-30 years IMO.

So there are no limits or links to continental reputation?

How would a club from India exceed the reputation of Barcelona without playing any competitive games at the same level? Would it be through the Club World Cup?

So there are no limits or links to continental reputation?

How would a club from India exceed the reputation of Barcelona without playing any competitive games at the same level? Would it be through the Club World Cup?

IIRC it's been asked and yes, there will be no limits on any continent, therefore we could make Asia the dominant football continent. As how, through WCC or something else, I don't know TBH. Anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

How about the lower leagues? Are they static?

What if Championship clubs won the cups for 5 years in a row, and every year 2 or 3 Newcastles (clubs that size like Villa, Everton, Tottenham, etc.) should go down and up, would that raise the Championships reputation?

IIRC it's been asked and yes, there will be no limits on any continent, therefore we could make Asia the dominant football continent. As how, through WCC or something else, I don't know TBH. Anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

If anyone can find me a link to where this has been said it would be much appreciated. I don't always read all the announcement threads or listen to the podcasts so I may well have missed this.

How about the lower leagues? Are they static?

What if Championship clubs won the cups for 5 years in a row, and every year 2 or 3 Newcastles (clubs that size like Villa, Everton, Tottenham, etc.) should go down and up, would that raise the Championships reputation?

As the top leagues reputation go up in one country the lowers' league reputation will go up aswell.

If anyone can find me a link to where this has been said it would be much appreciated. I don't always read all the announcement threads or listen to the podcasts so I may well have missed this.

I'll try finding you link now, as I doubt it was mentioned in the announcement of FM11 thread, buy I will check just in case.

EDIT: Sorry dafuge, I couldn't find the link to back-up what I was saying, but still I'm 99% sure that I stand correct and I hope someone confirms it.

On the other hand I found the proof for my reply to the doc_'s post. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/221267-Football-Manager-2011-official-announcement?p=5750605&viewfull=1#post5750605

I'm more interested how/if leagues will improve significantly without any human input.

I think finances will be more of an obstacle to your league dominating world football. In south africa fans pay just £1 on the gates and theres no season tickets. you cannot afford good players wages on this money. I don't know but im assuming indian gate money is not great either. then your also not getting any financial help from europes champions league.

no money, no top players

I think finances will be more of an obstacle to your league dominating world football. In south africa fans pay just £1 on the gates and theres no season tickets. you cannot afford good players wages on this money. I don't know but im assuming indian gate money is not great either. then your also not getting any financial help from europes champions league.

no money, no top players

Whilst that's true initially, if a league becomes more dominant over 10-20 or more years, the money will soon find its way into the clubs for them to grow in strength and power. Do ticket prices and season tickets change depending on a club's success and/or reputation? I can't say i've ever looked into it.

I'm more interested how/if leagues will improve significantly without any human input.

On my last few games English teams have struggled in Europe. Will be interesting to see if the Premier League falls from grace if the computer is left to its own devices.

Whilst that's true initially, if a league becomes more dominant over 10-20 or more years, the money will soon find its way into the clubs for them to grow in strength and power. Do ticket prices and season tickets change depending on a club's success and/or reputation? I can't say i've ever looked into it.

I think for the most part yes. Success tends to raise prices. Market forces really.

Bit like the stock market. Successful companies can sell their stocks for higher prices.

I meant more in terms of in-game FM ticket prices and season tickets really. It would hold back a club in India if their ticket prices never rose in game regardless of how much the club advances.

but surely in some countries the economy is not gonna change drastically anytime soon? like in brazil fans cannot pay good entry fees either and thats a big reason why they have to sell most of there players, however they can afford reasonable wages due to the sponsorship their reputation brings in but that is not enough to hold the top talent.

i dont think the game will change the brazillian fans economy, realistically they are stuck. however what the game has been confirmed to do is to have dynamic prize money. so the bigger the league reputation the higher the prize money for finishing in certain positions (1st/4th etc). however this money surely will not be enough to pay the top wages.

Ah right. Fair enough.

With countries such as India, Brazil and other giants of the developing world starting to flex their financial muscles, a decent period of strong growth in their overall economies could inflate the wages of your average football fan. I guess a lot also depends on the expendable incomes of the middle classes though as it can hardly be said the same working class fans are in the majority of the crowds for the big clubs in europe nowadays.

In India for example, i'm sure a fair amount of potential money is out there but sports fans would rather spend it on Cricket. Look at the Indian Cricket League... plenty of tickets, merchandise and tie-ins sold much like the English football Premier League.

An interesting route to take in developing a club in an unknown league would be for a local sugar daddy to fund the rise of the club and the league much like the emergence of the vastly rich Indian Cricket Premier League.

im going to have one hell of a job building the welsh league to the best in the world

I just hope it's not TOO easy to raise a rep. It should take decades for, say, Norway to catch up to France let alone Spain or England. India or Malaisia would take twice as long. Japan and S Korea I can see but no one else around that area.

I'm using Toronto FC (MLS) in my current game. The year is 2015 and I've won every competition that I've entered, including the Club World Championship 5 times so far (Barca, Inter x2, Lyon and Bayern Munich.) I have a stadium named after me that now sits over 50,000 people and I'm making money left and right. But what does this get me in FM10? Pretty much nothing. That's why I'm so excited to see how this plays out in FM11... Will stars take less money to sign with me after such a streak of winning? Will I be able to attract talent away from the big European leagues? Will MLS, as a whole, begin to see an improvement to the level of talent the league can sign? Will foreign clubs try and pick apart my roster when my players do well? Will a strong MLS one day lead to the US and Canada becoming powerhouses at the national level? I'm very intrigued...

Ah right. Fair enough.

With countries such as India, Brazil and other giants of the developing world starting to flex their financial muscles, a decent period of strong growth in their overall economies could inflate the wages of your average football fan. I guess a lot also depends on the expendable incomes of the middle classes though as it can hardly be said the same working class fans are in the majority of the crowds for the big clubs in europe nowadays.

In India for example, i'm sure a fair amount of potential money is out there but sports fans would rather spend it on Cricket. Look at the Indian Cricket League... plenty of tickets, merchandise and tie-ins sold much like the English football Premier League.

An interesting route to take in developing a club in an unknown league would be for a local sugar daddy to fund the rise of the club and the league much like the emergence of the vastly rich Indian Cricket Premier League.

but a country's economy and the leagues reputation are not very interwoven. sure a high league reputation will help the economy but the effect can not be transforming, a poor country with a high league reputation still can't make much from gates income. surely the game cannot change a country's economy? the shift in india from cricket to football would be on the leagues reputation and have less to do with the economy as shown by the money in the ipl? it seems dynamic league reputation is more complicated than people think because it also relies on a countrys economy and the prediction of that countrys changing (dynamic) economy? and a leagues reputation also relies on more than just one team doing well which is out of the users control to some extent. it would be extremely hard to grow your league reputation by working with low wages anyway. i think it may be easier to get a sugardaddy with a good league reputation though.

I'm using Toronto FC (MLS) in my current game. The year is 2015 and I've won every competition that I've entered, including the Club World Championship 5 times so far (Barca, Inter x2, Lyon and Bayern Munich.) I have a stadium named after me that now sits over 50,000 people and I'm making money left and right. But what does this get me in FM10? Pretty much nothing. That's why I'm so excited to see how this plays out in FM11... Will stars take less money to sign with me after such a streak of winning? Will I be able to attract talent away from the big European leagues? Will MLS, as a whole, begin to see an improvement to the level of talent the league can sign? Will foreign clubs try and pick apart my roster when my players do well? Will a strong MLS one day lead to the US and Canada becoming powerhouses at the national level? I'm very intrigued...

the mls will always be restricted by its wage cap, unless the rest of the worlds wages lowers or the wage cap is changed there will never be the best teams in the world from the mls. sure you may be able to attract better stars as a designated player but every team can only have one of these. even if the standard of american homegrown footballers increases greatly they will still move over to europe to be payed the big wages

but a country's economy and the leagues reputation are not very interwoven. sure a high league reputation will help the economy but the effect can not be transforming, a poor country with a high league reputation still can't make much from gates income. surely the game cannot change a country's economy? the shift in india from cricket to football would be on the leagues reputation and have less to do with the economy as shown by the money in the ipl? it seems dynamic league reputation is more complicated than people think because it also relies on a countrys economy and the prediction of that countrys changing (dynamic) economy? and a leagues reputation also relies on more than just one team doing well which is out of the users control to some extent. it would be extremely hard to grow your league reputation by working with low wages anyway. i think it may be easier to get a sugardaddy with a good league reputation though.

i think i may have muddled what i was trying to say in my last post.

i meant as the economies of brazil and india grow, some degree of wealth and higher wages will filter down their society to some degree, therefor giving more people more disposable income to spend on such things as football match tickets, team merchandise and other leisure activities and items associated with football. Of course, in India, IRL you would have to compete with the IPL but surely the IPL itself proves that in India at least there are people with the money to spend on regularly following a sports team and buying into the shirts, merch and other tie-ins?

and on the whole 1 club affecting their league's reputation thing there are some examples of such a thing happening. The success of Ajax in europe and the dutch league, LA Galaxy buying David Beckham, the Calciopoli scandal in Italy, UK clubs successes in europe, Real Madrid as the first super-club... they may not be as dramatic as what could happen in game but then again, who knows what the state of football could be like in 50 years?

yea but in the game economies will not be growing will it? it will be pretty narrow minded of the game if rising league reputation of really poor countries automatically means the ticket prices massively rise. but i also doubt the game will have an economy attribute or system.

yea india may have the potential for rising ticket prices but how will the game know this?

yea but in the game economies will not be growing will it? it will be pretty narrow minded of the game if rising league reputation of really poor countries automatically means the ticket prices massively rise. but i also doubt the game will have an economy attribute or system.

yea india may have the potential for rising ticket prices but how will the game know this?

Well it is just a game so i doubt it will, or needs, to go that deep for this update at least.

Sorry, I thought you were talking more about how possible it would in the real world what with countries like Brazil and India emerging as larger economic forces out of the G20.

It must be linked into continental reputations (that possibly could change based on world cup, world club).

Otherwise a team from New Zealand could win the OFC champions league every single year for 20 years and with that be considered a great club and in real life that could (although a Papuan club won it this year) happen and they still wouldn't be a player on the world stage at all.

After all if you won your domestic league 100 times in a row it just means you're the best in the league not that league is any better than another, so the next level up (continental) must change based on how it performs in the level above (world) too.

It must be linked into continental reputations (that possibly could change based on world cup, world club).

Otherwise a team from New Zealand could win the OFC champions league every single year for 20 years and with that be considered a great club and in real life that could (although a Papuan club won it this year) happen and they still wouldn't be a player on the world stage at all.

After all if you won your domestic league 100 times in a row it just means you're the best in the league not that league is any better than another, so the next level up (continental) must change based on how it performs in the level above (world) too.

I completely agree. SI said they've worked on dynamic league rep for a year at least so i doubt they'd have green lighted a system that works like that.