Tactics - Sliders or no sliders, that is the question!

Obviously this release of FM10 has incorporated the brand spanking new tactics creator. Now we all know who has had a large input in implementing the tactics creator, and what knowledge they have from creating the legendary TT&F.

However I am very keen to find out whether people still use the classic sliders to create their tactic, or indeed use the new in built creator.

I am considering switching back to the classic as I really felt I had a larger amount of control over the tactic. That being said, surely my own definition of the sliders cant be as accurate as that of wwfan and Millie, hence the aprehension in switching.

To keep it simple - list as below:

1. Sliders/Tactics Creator??

2. Why?

i made my first new tactic with the creator last night and it all seems a bit vague i'm afraid.

more this and less that, i guess it's ok for the casual user who doesnt want to get bogged down in detail, but i think i'll switch back to the classic as it gives me more control over the team.

what i would like is the classic sliders for team instructions but to still choose additional responsibilities to my DM such as deep-lying playmaker/ball-winning midfielder etc - are these options still available if I revert to the classic version?

what i would like is the classic sliders for team instructions but to still choose additional responsibilities to my DM such as deep-lying playmaker/ball-winning midfielder etc - are these options still available if I revert to the classic version?

I am pretty sure that this is not the case. If you go classic then you are left to your own devices.

use new system

Why

Much better actually its flexible and quick.

As an example was getting overan in midfield so dropped one midfielder with command as deep lying playmaker but put him on defensive sounds strange but he then was in the hole they was exploiting but was still doing positive stuff.

I like that I can keep shape ie 4-4-2 fixed but can tell them to be either rigid or fluid.

I can tell players to either rigid to roles or switch.

I can tell fullbacks to cover which mean they will tuck in cover mistakes from central defence useful when he rubbish.

The op moves to one up top then tell one DC to cover that stops him going between a rigid 2 DC setup whats happened in the past against loan stiker.

I love being capable to react these are just some things but yes if you know how to combat situations you get more joy.

I am pretty sure that this is not the case. If you go classic then you are left to your own devices.

that sucks

use new system

Why

Much better actually its flexible and quick.

As an example was getting overan in midfield so dropped one midfielder with command as deep lying playmaker but put him on defensive sounds strange but he then was in the hole they was exploiting but was still doing positive stuff.

I like that I can keep shape ie 4-4-2 fixed but can tell them to be either rigid or fluid.

I can tell players to either rigid to roles or switch.

I can tell fullbacks to cover which mean they will tuck in cover mistakes from central defence useful when he rubbish.

The op moves to one up top then tell one DC to cover that stops him going between a rigid 2 DC setup whats happened in the past against loan stiker.

I love being capable to react these are just some things but yes if you know how to combat situations you get more joy.

That is the joy of the creator. The fact that it allows you to make instant changes that would normally take several minutes is a blessing. That is a major reason not to change I suppose!?

i prefer the sliders, im much more at home and feel more in control with them.

i prefer the sliders, im much more at home and feel more in control with them.

And what are our results/performances like in comparison?

I have just stuck to the regular preset options, but im tempted to dabble back into the sliders. I obviously used them in previous versions, so i know what im doing. Or at least I like to think that But i thought id give the new options a go, simply to try them.

And what are our results/performances like in comparison?

Alot better i find. my players are doping exactly what i want them to and i find it works better generally.

I have just stuck to the regular preset options, but im tempted to dabble back into the sliders. I obviously used them in previous versions, so i know what im doing. Or at least I like to think that But i thought id give the new options a go, simply to try them.

Same here Elmo - I just feel in more control with the sliders…..The problem I have is that wwfan & Millie set up the tactics creator so it must be more accurate…..surely??

Alot better i find. my players are doping exactly what i want them to and i find it works better generally.

so did you try the creator first to experiment?

Same here Elmo - I just feel in more control with the sliders…..The problem I have is that wwfan & Millie set up the tactics creator so it must be more accurate…..surely??

Who are they?

so did you try the creator first to experiment?

indeed i did

Who are they?

Have you ever heard of tactical theorams and frameworks document? If so, the two mentioned wrote it.

It was seen as the \'definitive\' guide to the sliders in prvious versions. SEGA & SI even back their new EBook for FM10.

indeed i did

Hmmmm, interesting.

I prefer the sliders but use the creator as it is quick.

The creator takes out the diffculites of the game play. It's too easy now.

Have you ever heard of tactical theorams and frameworks document? If so, the two mentioned wrote it.

It was seen as the \'definitive\' guide to the sliders in prvious versions. SEGA & SI even back their new EBook for FM10.

Oh I see! I never knew of them. Where is this ebook to be found?

Hmmmm, interesting.

I just think i find it easier, ive had years of using the same type of tactics rthat worked very well and i couldnt create anything similar with the new system. I hope SI keep the classical option even in future games

I just think i find it easier, ive had years of using the same type of tactics rthat worked very well and i couldnt create anything similar with the new system. I hope SI keep the classical option even in future games

So do I. I would hate not to have the option.....I see no value in removing them so I think we are safe.

1. I don't use the Tactics Creator very often. I basically use the wizard only to see what are the player role recommendations for a particular tactic, if and when I need to change tactics. To answer the poll: I will not go back to the old slider system in a million years.

2. Quite frankly, I fail to understand why one would want to revert back to old system. After all, you still have sliders for defensive line, width, tempo and time wasting, in case you need to fine tune these even further. Plus you still have a full array of sliders for your individual orders. The new player roles commands are invaluable. You can't translate that into sliders. How can you give an "automatic" role to a full back, for instance, by means of a couple of sliders. I feel the new system is far more advanced and accurate in conveying the correct strategy/tactic/mentality from the whiteboard onto the pitch.

1. I don't use the Tactics Creator very often. I basically use the wizard only to see what are the player role recommendations for a particular tactic, if and when I need to change tactics. To answer the poll: I will not go back to the old slider system in a million years.

2. Quite frankly, I fail to understand why one would want to revert back to old system. After all, you still have sliders for defensive line, width, tempo and time wasting, in case you need to fine tune these even further. Plus you still have a full array of sliders for your individual orders. The new player roles commands are invaluable. You can't translate that into sliders. How can you give an "automatic" role to a full back, for instance, by means of a couple of sliders. I feel the new system is far more advanced and accurate in conveying the correct strategy/tactic/mentality from the whiteboard onto the pitch.

Yes but if you refer to the old one, for example the overload feature has players with arrows randomly. I found i had arrows for all my players when i didnt want that

Ok, so I switched back to the old slider system last night to create a pretty standard 4-4-2 formation and I must admit that I hadnt quite realised how much I missed building my own tactics using the sliders.

I only managed to get in two matches and the results were bizarre. I am Newcastle and both games were played at St James Park. I lost to Reading 7-5!! however Steven Taylor was sent off after 15 mins. My second game was against Sheff Wednesday and I won 2-1. Even though the first result was a mad game in terms of goals I really felt my team were playing more like they used to in previous versions of FM.

One thing that did bug me was the amount of cards and fouls my team gave away. I didnt have man marking on, except for my two centre backs. Tackling was on medium for those who had a half decent tackling/decisions statistic, the rest were on light tackling. Any ideas?

One thing that did bug me was the amount of cards and fouls my team gave away. I didnt have man marking on, except for my two centre backs. Tackling was on medium for those who had a half decent tackling/decisions statistic, the rest were on light tackling. Any ideas?

Did you use you assistant during pre-match "opposition insructions"?

Assistant usually puts hard tackling on several players of the opposing team. That's one of the reasons.

I love the creator and I think it's the way to go, normally I am against these "casual user" solutions, but this is genuinely better than sliders because it makes it more about football. It's more realistic in its being unrealistic because it makes you feel more like a manager, telling people "be a bloody anchor man" or shouting "real life" instructions instead of moving abstract sliders.

That being said, I'm still confused over the issue of shouts not overriding sliders; to me it would make sense that whatever I shout during the game should have the power to out-rank any instructions I set before the match through the sliders, because well, I am WATCHING the bloody game and presumably my needs are more pressing now.

Also, could any of you be kind enough to explain to me what I have to do to make sure the shouts still works? Where is the "line" marking my switch to sliders instead of shouts? Is it that I should never touch anything under the "advanced" section, right? but whatever is on basic is still good? thanks

Did you use you assistant during pre-match \"opposition insructions\"?

Assistant usually puts hard tackling on several players of the opposing team. That\'s one of the reasons.

No I didnt, I always decide myself what opposition instructions to use. There were an absolute ton of fouls - three of their seven goals were penalties!!

Oh I see! I never knew of them. Where is this ebook to be found?

You can find the new version of this on the FMBritain website.

It is one hell of a read!

1. Tactics creator for me all the way.

2. I was never able to make any successful tactic with the sliders but now when my ideas can be put into words it's easier and I don't have to rely on other people (read Knap) to come up with something anymore.

/JB

You can find the new version of this on the FMBritain website.

It is one hell of a read!

Had a quick read there. Im perplexed really :/

Im unsure if its a good thing that such a detailed guide can be written. Surely that means that the tactics are too complex to simply "pick up and play"?

Had a quick read there. Im perplexed really :/

Im unsure if its a good thing that such a detailed guide can be written. Surely that means that the tactics are too complex to simply \"pick up and play\"?

Lol, Tell me about it. It is soo detailed it is unreal. I have read a lot of it, however there are some parts you will use and others you wont. You can see why I feel I should be using the tactics wizard instead of my own?! Surely they will be better quality?!

No I didnt, I always decide myself what opposition instructions to use. There were an absolute ton of fouls - three of their seven goals were penalties!!

3 penalties - that's pretty harsh.

I used to have a one red card per - about- four or five games, while using new tac.system. It's much better with classic system and my FM09 schemes (1 red card per 9-11 games).

In my net game with a friend, my Dinamo Kiev had about 10 red cards in 30 games of championship in the first season. We have also conceded 29 goals with 54 scored. Ended up on the 5th place (disgrace). New tactical system used, 4 or 5 formations tried through pre-season and season.

At this point and moved back to classic.

In the second season we've played 8 rounds in champ, I'm 1st with 6 victories, 2 draws, 19 scored and 3 conceded (2 penalties). We've received only 1 red card. Plus one red card in Europa League (first group stage fixtute agains Ajax, which I won 2-1 in the end).

My firend uses new tactical system - was lucky enough to win the first season - is on the 3d place at the moment, with 4 victories, 2 x and 2 lost (one to Dinamo ). He also lost his first fixture in Champs League against Genoa.

We'll see which system wins in the end.

> The new creator for me.

> Never really got to grips with the sliders, I really struggled to create my own tactics, and only really got anywhere with ones I downloaded! Now, however, I find it much easier to create a halfway decent tactic, and am enjoying the experience a lot more.

On my very first save on FM10 (full version) I have managed to get through to 2021 with Liverpool, achieving club legend status along the way. On previous versions, that would be unheard of, especially as it's "straight out of the box" It would have taken me many saves to have gotten close to that date. On the way, I have used only 3 tactics; the default one for the first two seasons, then a 4-4-2 diamond formation with wingers, and most recently, and attacking 4-4-2 with advanced wingers. The later has brought me 3 consecutive Premiership titles

3 penalties - that\'s pretty harsh.

I used to have a one red card per - about- four or five games, while using new tac.system. It\'s much better with classic system and my FM09 schemes (1 red card per 9-11 games).

In my net game with a friend, my Dinamo Kiev had about 10 red cards in 30 games of championship in the first season. We have also conceded 29 goals with 54 scored. Ended up on the 5th place (disgrace). New tactical system used, 4 or 5 formations tried through pre-season and season.

At this point and moved back to classic.

In the second season we\'ve played 8 rounds in champ, I\'m 1st with 6 victories, 2 draws, 19 scored and 3 conceded (2 penalties). We\'ve received only 1 red card. Plus one red card in Europa League (first group stage fixtute agains Ajax, which I won 2-1 in the end).

My firend uses new tactical system - was lucky enough to win the first season - is on the 3d place at the moment, with 4 victories, 2 x and 2 lost (one to Dinamo ). He also lost his first fixture in Champs League against Genoa.

We\'ll see which system wins in the end.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out for you.

I suppose it is also a little difficult to tell currently what with the match engine acting oddly on occasions.

> The new creator for me.

> Never really got to grips with the sliders, I really struggled to create my own tactics, and only really got anywhere with ones I downloaded! Now, however, I find it much easier to create a halfway decent tactic, and am enjoying the experience a lot more.

On my very first save on FM10 (full version) I have managed to get through to 2021 with Liverpool, achieving club legend status along the way. On previous versions, that would be unheard of, especially as it\'s \"straight out of the box\" It would have taken me many saves to have gotten close to that date. On the way, I have used only 3 tactics; the default one for the first two seasons, then a 4-4-2 diamond formation with wingers, and most recently, and attacking 4-4-2 with advanced wingers. The later has brought me 3 consecutive Premiership titles

Well in your case it must be a great relief to now be able to play the game as you like to.

Well in your case it must be a great relief to now be able to play the game as you like to.

Very much so! In the past it was a case of if it didnt work, bin the save and start again. Now, however, I feel as though I have more control over what is going on, and I feel confident I can actually fix things that I see going wrong!

edit: Always helps if I'm watching the match though, just lost 3-1 to Villa cos I was posting here! lol

Use the sliders. I find I just don't get what I want out of the game when I use the Creator. It's definitely my fault, but I find myself struggling to get my players playing as they are and I find my single 'slider' tactic is much, much more solid than any of the ones I manufacture with the creator.

Agreed that the new system is more flexible and much quicker - both in making changes and understanding how those changes impact on your tactics.

In saying that, I often find myself going back to the sliders to tweak my tactic by the odd notch. I guess you could say I let the new system generate the tactic and I fine-tune it in very specific areas - attacking & defending set-pieces being one.

Very much so! In the past it was a case of if it didnt work, bin the save and start again. Now, however, I feel as though I have more control over what is going on, and I feel confident I can actually fix things that I see going wrong!

edit: Always helps if I\'m watching the match though, just lost 3-1 to Villa cos I was posting here! lol

lol, oops! bummer!

Well I must say that I feel I need to almost watch all of the 90 mins of the matches in FM10 - not sure why.

Agreed that the new system is more flexible and much quicker - both in making changes and understanding how those changes impact on your tactics.

In saying that, I often find myself going back to the sliders to tweak my tactic by the odd notch. I guess you could say I let the new system generate the tactic and I fine-tune it in very specific areas - attacking & defending set-pieces being one.

Same thing I do. I let the creator make the baseline, then I tweak it how I want for each match.

Makes the game more accessible to me and I love how easy and fast it is to change things on the fly.

it seems like the new creator is slightly edging it so far..

I dont think it actually takes that long to create a tactic using the sliders once you know how to use them. However it took me a loooong time to fully undertsand what effect each slider movement made to my player.

I am using the editor for general team tactics but i give specific orders to my players since the default commands make them losing their positions , going up more than i want or trying to cross in tight marked strikers .

It takes lot of reloads just to find the right settings for the wing backs , coordinate them with midfield and cover the defence at the same time , i just hope next year SI will come with a tactics testing module.

I am using the editor for general team tactics but i give specific orders to my players since the default commands make them losing their positions , going up more than i want or trying to cross in tight marked strikers .

It takes lot of reloads just to find the right settings for the wing backs , coordinate them with midfield and cover the defence at the same time , i just hope next year SI will come with a tactics testing module.

I agree with your first part regarding them moving out of position and this usually requires a manual adjust. It appears to me that using the sliders makes your team appear more of a unit, rather rathan players with individual responsibilites.

As for a tactics testing module - this is usually what friendly are for, however IRL manager get to test out new formations in training and this would be a VERY helpful feature.

Start with Creator, then tinker a bit with slider.

90% creator I would say.

Right. I was goling to start a new thread however I thought it was still appropriate to the OP of mine so I will drop it in here as an additional point.

I have read in another thread that some of the key actions for defending a lead is using the \\\'touchline shouts\\\' function. Could this be a reason for my wacky 7-5 match??

I didnt really utilise those shouts very much when using the creator, and now I am using the classic (sliders) option is it still possible to use these shouts? If not am I fighting a losing battle using the sliders instead of the creator?

I would love some more thoughts on this.

1. I don't use the Tactics Creator very often. I basically use the wizard only to see what are the player role recommendations for a particular tactic, if and when I need to change tactics. To answer the poll: I will not go back to the old slider system in a million years.

2. Quite frankly, I fail to understand why one would want to revert back to old system. After all, you still have sliders for defensive line, width, tempo and time wasting, in case you need to fine tune these even further. Plus you still have a full array of sliders for your individual orders. The new player roles commands are invaluable. You can't translate that into sliders. How can you give an "automatic" role to a full back, for instance, by means of a couple of sliders. I feel the new system is far more advanced and accurate in conveying I joined this forum just to take part in this discussion. Iv just loaded up FM2010 and i the correct strategy/tactic/mentality from the whiteboard onto the pitch.

completely relate to the "question"

1.I am going to try the creator - probably once. But classic system will win it for me in the end (i think)

2. Why? Cos i understand the sliders! I know what does what, its simple. Without bragging i rekon i can translate what i want onto the sliders. Obviously it takes time and experience but thats what being a manager is about.

Tonif says - "you cant translate an automatic role for a full back" - this is how id do it - according to the automatic role - your defender switches between defence, attack and support duties - this obviously means that most of your sliders for that player will be in the middle! SIMPLE.

I started to test whether i could translate these new "roles" into sliders and i could. For example an inside winger on support (description accorrding to tactical creator: cuts diagonally, runs at defenders, plays through balls, takes long shots) meant simply to me in terms of sliders that his crossing would be on rarely (since he has to cut inside), his long shots often, through balls often, runs often or sometimes, creative freedom is a little high (not as high as attack). He's on "support" so his attacking metre wont be as high as if he is on "attack". And thats about it! Also dont think that the creators definition of an inside support winger is the correct definition

i could probably do it for all the roles using my brain - im trying not to brag, but the point is I like fm to be as hard as possible. And for me to use my initiative with working out how they play. Using roles would just mean i havent done anything myself. Thats my take on it. If you think about it, the creators of the game are also using sliders. Its just the "roles" and "tactical creator" are masking the sliders and doing the hard work and tweaking for you. At the end of the day its still using rules similar to the sliders as its a computer program.

Hope that helps and hope someone reads this and comments on what they think. Anyhow im going to try this new thing for one game simply to see the shouts option. MERRY XMAS ALL

Tonif says - "you cant translate an automatic role for a full back" - this is how id do it - according to the automatic role - your defender switches between defence, attack and support duties - this obviously means that most of your sliders for that player will be in the middle! SIMPLE.

I don't think it's that simple. Automatic doesn't mean that everything will be in the middle but rather that if you are changing between a defensive/standard/attacking strategy, the sliders will change accordingly and be near the fifth/tenth/fifteenth notch, and also the instructions for runs and through/cross balls will change accordingly.

To answer the OP question: I use both. First the tactic creator to create a basic outline for my tactic, and then I manually adjust to my players' strengths/weaknesses. For example, if I have a DR with 19 for crossing I want him crossing no matter what mentality/strategy he is on. If I have a DR with 4 crossing I want him crossing rarely all the time.