Please please please change this for FM10!!!

For the past few versions there have been 2 problems that could easily be fixed, but take away from the realism of the game:

1) When getting a scout report of the upcoming opponent, they have always played the same eam before playing you, this is extremely unrealistic and in my view would make a simple, but effective change.

2) You always play the teams in order for 1st and second half of a seaon e.g. man utd 1st and 19th arsenal 2nd and 20th, again, this is very unrealitic and could be an easy change, but will, as the other change, make the game alot more realistic in my opinion.

That would be good for the realism of the game...

This doesn't happen for me but my last two games are one of Man Utd Liverpool Man City Arsenal or Chelsea

Does #1 happen because of #2? So they always play against the same team every year? I can't say I've noticed it, but if it is true you are probably right. But I'm not sure I understand how either one is a big problem.

i agree about the fixtures, they are looped so you play all teams in same order, just home away opposites, but is too late for fm10 now.

Its not a big problem, but fairly in my opinion. But would just add to the realism in my opinion, hopefully theyve changed it already as its something that just does not and will not happen in real life, and seeing as fm is a sim, thats not really good enough

I don't know about football, but the looping is certainly what happens in chess tournaments conducted using the all-play-all system. Take this tournament as an example:

If you examine the play order of anyone except Baker, you'll get the order McNab - Cherniaev - Berelovich - Savage - Eggleston - Allicock - Ermenkov - Sowray - Lundin - Madan - Cox - Radovanovic - Rudd, with Baker's name slotted in wherever the player would have played himself. This is a mechanism that always creates a valid all-play-all, and is therefore widely used.

Chess isnt really like football and therefore that isnt really a good example, it stops the variety of fixtures that you get, which adds to the managerial experience

You don't always play in the same order. You play in a similar order just like in real life, but it is not identical.

Chess is like football in a number of critical features here: it is played in tournaments of widely varying sizes; it is a two-"player" game; one of the two "players" has a minor but noticeable advantage (Home advantage in football and White advantage in chess are of very similar levels).

I will have to have a peek at the beta demo to see if this is still the same, if it is it will be too late for FM10 thats for sure.

The simple fact is, chess isnt football. And in my recent save i had identical fixtures home and away.

Chess is like football in a number of critical features here: it is played in tournaments of widely varying sizes; it is a two-"player" game; one of the two "players" has a minor but noticeable advantage (Home advantage in football and White advantage in chess are of very similar levels).

I understand your view, but it is completely wrong. Your points have nothing to do ith looping fixtures or your next opponent having played the same team the previous week every week.

I understand your view, but it is completely wrong. Your points have nothing to do ith looping fixtures or your next opponent having played the same team the previous week every week.

Not directly, but my points combine to mean that tournament formats that work for one will work for the other. And the fundamental thing you want for your tournament formats is a recipe for generating fixtures that will always work, and not get "jammed" (technical term for when the fixtures left to be played cannot be fitted into the rounds left for them). The following-another-team-around method will always work, no matter how many teams are in the division, which is not something that can be said for most other methods.

Yes but in reality that isnt how it works, and this is a simulation, meaning it is meant to resemble real life! And im talking about league only, not cups.

Yes but in reality that isnt how it works, and this is a simulation, meaning it is meant to resemble real life! And im talking about league only, not cups.

This is how it works in real life though.

In real life the games most certainly do not loop, and your next opponent most certainly hasnt played the same opponent next week every game you play.

Take a look at the fixture list for any premier league team. The first 19 games and the last 19 games are in a similar order just like in FM.

I don't even understand your other complaint.

In fm they are identical, for chamopinship or premiership. And my other complaint, e.g. i am watford, i get a scout report for my upcoming team saying last week they played sheff wed, every opponent i then play has always played sheff wed last week. Looking at burnley fixtures, bolton in the space of 5 games. Almost every fixture isnt on a loop.

They are not identical - just similar. Take a closer look.

Not at all, in fm my latest save, LOOKING AT IT NOW, fifth season, identical loop. Burnely offical website, LOOKING AT IT NOW, completely different, no game is 1st 19th, 4th 23rd etc.

I don't get loops.

I've never noticed the other problem.

If you dont get loops, they will be extremely similar. And yes i didnt notice the other problem till 2008, but unfortunately it is there

Yes but in reality that isnt how it works, and this is a simulation, meaning it is meant to resemble real life! And im talking about league only, not cups.

So am I. Knockouts don't have jamming issues; if both you and another team are still in the competition, you against them is a valid pairing. It's only in all-play-alls and Swisses (a format not currently used by football tournaments of any standing) that you need to worry about jamming.

But my point is in reality that is not what happens, there is no denying that

Fixtures are like that for some legal issues I´ve heard.

just search the forums, there has been lots of talk about this in the past.

Thanks

Fixtures are like that for some legal issues I´ve heard.

just search the forums, there has been lots of talk about this in the past.

Thanks

Fixtures are not the real ones for legal issues, that's all.

It's an interesting question, actually - for any given even number of teams, how many non-isomorphic ways are there for the fixtures to be drawn between them? (Assume that it doesn't matter which team is which, and that home and away don't matter either - we can alter those assumptions later.) For example, there's only one way to do the fixtures with two teams (they play each other) and there's only one way to do the fixtures with four teams (there are six different orders, but they all follow the same pattern).

clearly not if you watch football youd know that.

clearly not if you watch football youd know that.

Clearly so, you just don't understand him.

clearly not. im saying tht teams do not play on a loop. which is factully correct.but he keeps on talking ..rubbish. so dont say i dont understand him, cos i do, its just hes wrong, and he turned the thread into a rubbish one

I think the underlying problem here is likely to be that the actual fixtures for a given country's league are intertwined in very complicated ways, with certain pairs of clubs being bad choices to both play at home on the same day, and stuff like that.

Actually simulating that would be a coding nightmare; it's a much better use of one's coding time to put in an algorithm that's known to produce valid pairings all the time, and use the man-hours somewhere where they'll matter more.

In La Liga this is how it is in real life.. The order of which the teams are played is identical for 1st and 2nd half of seasons.. F.eks. this is Real Madrids fixture list:

30.08.2009 Real Madrid - Deportivo

13.09.2009 Espanyol - Real Madrid

20.09.2009 Real Madrid - Xerez

23.09.2009 Villarreal - Real Madrid

27.09.2009 Real Madrid - Tenerife

04.10.2009 Sevilla - Real Madrid

18.10.2009 Real Madrid - Valladolid

25.10.2009 Sporting - Real Madrid

01.11.2009 Real Madrid - Getafe

08.11.2009 Atlético Madrid - Real Madrid

22.11.2009 Real Madrid - Racing Santander

29.11.2009 Barcelona - Real Madrid

06.12.2009 Real Madrid - Almería

13.12.2009 Valencia - Real Madrid

20.12.2009 Real Madrid - Zaragoza

03.01.2010 Osasuna - Real Madrid

10.01.2010 Real Madrid - Mallorca

17.01.2010 Ath. Bilbao - Real Madrid

24.01.2010 Real Madrid - Málaga

HALFWAY

31.01.2010 Deportivo - Real Madrid

07.02.2010 Real Madrid - Espanyol

14.02.2010 Xerez - Real Madrid

21.02.2010 Real Madrid - Villarreal

28.02.2010 Tenerife - Real Madrid

07.03.2010 Real Madrid - Sevilla

14.03.2010 Valladolid - Real Madrid

21.03.2010 Real Madrid - Sporting

24.03.2010 Getafe - Real Madrid

28.03.2010 Real Madrid - Atlético Madrid

04.04.2010 Racing Santander - Real Madrid

11.04.2010 Real Madrid - Barcelona

14.04.2010 Almería - Real Madrid

18.04.2010 Real Madrid - Valencia

25.04.2010 Zaragoza - Real Madrid

02.05.2010 Real Madrid - Osasuna

05.05.2010 Mallorca - Real Madrid

09.05.2010 Real Madrid - Ath. Bilbao

16.05.2010 Málaga - Real Madrid

Notice the pattern

in real life fixtures are not identical.fact.i would know, ive been a season ticket holder at watford 4 4 years

Of course teams play in a loop (see Herter's post). After the league has started there might be games postponed and so it may not play out as the schedule predicts. But the basic order of games is always the same. Pretty damn obvious.

Is this really that big a deal? It's hardly ruining the game.

Although, the OP is correct for Premiership features at the very least. In the second half of the season, the only fictures for Liverpool that are corresponding to the first are Stoke and Bolton, whilst are last two games, Chelsea and Hull, are our last two games of the season whilst our games against Wolves are just a month apart. In England, it's generally the case that the reverse of the Boxing day fixture is about a month later. TBH though, I think a fair few leagues do use this sort of system to sort the fixtures, and it's probably a hell of a lot easier for it to work like this in the game.

in real life fixtures are not identical.fact.i would know, ive been a season ticket holder at watford 4 4 years

http://www.watfordfc.com/page/Fixtures/0,,10400,00.html

Go check Watford FC's fixture list.. - You might have a season ticket, but you apparantly never notice which team your playing against

Both issues are perfectly realistic and thus no issues at all. :confused:

Fixture lists happen to be made in a way that some teams will have identical opponents after each other, so it may well happen for a few weeks that your opponets will always have the same opposition in the match before yours.

Same with the fixtures order. They are supposed to be the same in both halfs of the season. There might be exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

http://www.watfordfc.com/page/Fixtures/0,,10400,00.html

Go check Watford FC's fixture list.. - You might have a season ticket, but you apparantly never notice which team your playing against

Herter.. They are not identical.

example from the link provided above;

8 first league games of the season for watford and 8 first league games from the second half of the season

First half of the season / Second half of the season

1. Doncaster ---------- 24. Bristol city

2. Sheffield United ----- 25. Sheffield United

3. Nottm forest -------- 26. Doncaster

4. Blackpool ----------- 27. Blackpool

5. Swansea ------------28. Swansea

6. Barnsley -------------29. Barnsley

7. Plymouth------------ 30. Bristol City

8. Leicester ------------31. Crystal Palace

9. etc.

10. etc.

Altough 4 out of 8 fixtures are in fact "same", the fixturelist is not identical.

In FM the fixtures would look like

First half of the season / Second half of the season

1. Doncaster ---------- 24. Doncaster

2. Sheffield United ----- 25. Sheffield United

3. Nottm forest -------- 26. Nottm forest

4. Blackpool ----------- 27. Blackpool

5. Swansea ------------28. Swansea

6. Barnsley -------------29. Barnsley

7. Plymouth------------ 30. Plymouth

8. Leicester ------------31. Leicester

9. etc.

10. etc.

WBR

M

MaCeR,

That's not true. Here are my FM fixtures for the current season by way of comparison:

1. AC Milan ----- 19. AC Milan

2. Torino ------- 20. Torino

3. Catania ------ 21. Catania

4. Fiorentina ---- 22. Fiorentina

5. Palermo ------ 23. Perugia

6. Perugia ------ 24. Palermo

7. Cagliari ------- 25. Bologna

8. Roma -------- 26. Cagliari

Four out of eight are the same just like in Watford's real life fixtures.

Herter.. They are not identical.

example from the link provided above;

8 first league games of the season for watford and 8 first league games from the second half of the season

First half of the season / Second half of the season

1. Doncaster ---------- 24. Bristol city

2. Sheffield United ----- 25. Sheffield United

3. Nottm forest -------- 26. Doncaster

4. Blackpool ----------- 27. Blackpool

5. Swansea ------------28. Swansea

6. Barnsley -------------29. Barnsley

7. Plymouth------------ 30. Bristol City

8. Leicester ------------31. Crystal Palace

9. etc.

10. etc.

Altough 4 out of 8 fixtures are in fact "same", the fixturelist is not identical.

In FM the fixtures would look like

First half of the season / Second half of the season

1. Doncaster ---------- 24. Doncaster

2. Sheffield United ----- 25. Sheffield United

3. Nottm forest -------- 26. Nottm forest

4. Blackpool ----------- 27. Blackpool

5. Swansea ------------28. Swansea

6. Barnsley -------------29. Barnsley

7. Plymouth------------ 30. Plymouth

8. Leicester ------------31. Leicester

9. etc.

10. etc.

WBR

M

True.. They are not identical.. My bad

However these is a certain "pattern" in the schedule ordering.. I've looked over a few Championship teams and all have the same pattern.. about half of the fixtures are identical for both half-seasons.. I wonder why?

http://www.watfordfc.com/page/Fixtures/0,,10400,00.html

Go check Watford FC's fixture list.. - You might have a season ticket, but you apparantly never notice which team your playing against

As Macer said, that is not correct, please dont question my commitment, i go to vertially everygame, ikm 15 and pay half of ticket price with i work for

MaCeR,

That's not true. Here are my FM fixtures for the current season by way of comparison:

1. AC Milan ----- 19. AC Milan

2. Torino ------- 20. Torino

3. Catania ------ 21. Catania

4. Fiorentina ---- 22. Fiorentina

5. Palermo ------ 23. Perugia

6. Perugia ------ 24. Palermo

7. Cagliari ------- 25. Bologna

8. Roma -------- 26. Cagliari

Four out of eight are the same just like in Watford's real life fixtures.

Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!

In fm it gos first, 19th 2nd 20th, which is a home/way loop, in real life you can play within a month of eachother etc

surely as in the italien league fixtures above one of the non corresponding fixtures could be a month apart from the other you just dont see it in their example

In simple terms: Real life-Mixture of when you play teams, varies massively, from 1 month apart to 4 months etc. FM-Exact loop eg. if you ply a team in the first game of the season, you will play them in the first game of the second half of the season, home or away. There are minor differences but that is it

It is an exact loop apart from when there are matches that have been rearranged or postponed

As Macer said, that is not correct, please dont question my commitment, i go to vertially everygame, ikm 15 and pay half of ticket price with i work for

Well I've already posted that.. It's not that I question your commitment.. that was just a joke

Although its not identical there is a clear pattern in which the fixture are planned..

Noooooooo!!!!!!!!!

In fm it gos first, 19th 2nd 20th, which is a home/way loop, in real life you can play within a month of eachother etc

Well I've followed Real Madrid for many many years and I've NEVER seen them play the same team in the league twice within a month. Perhaps this is possible in some specific league, but NOT in any of the league I actively follow

I've read this thread and I want the 20 minutes of my life back. So many people are completely clueless about real life fixture generation. The only post that caught my eye with information I didn't know was the Real Madrid real life fixture list.

And why Malleria is ignoring Jack Rudd's comments I don't know, Jack is clearly trying to explain why the repeating fixture list is the easiest to generate, and did a stirling job. Just because Chess isn't football, doesn't mean they are completely unrelated. If he had used Rugby as his example would you have given him such a hard time?

The only reason you see an imperfect repetition in FM is due to fixture rescheduling during the season (TV, Cup games, Weather - pick any reason).

On the matter of, 'Would I like this changed in future versions of the game?', Yes I would, but not at the expense of stability.