Manager Interaction: A discussion on how it can be improved

This is coming on the back of seeing the film Damned United, which is based on the story of Brian Clough's 6 week stint at Leeds United.

The film also covered large parts of Clough's relationship with Don Revee. It was an extremely interesting relationship in how it was fierce and there was a large media and footballing reaction to it. We see the press and the players taking close attention to the relationship and it affects their jobs.

There are also a few modern day examples of managerial managerial relations that are happening now. Ferguson and Rafa, Moyes and Hughes, Warnock and everyone. And we hear about these goings on and they affect the footballing world largely.

At the moment, the way you interact with other managers is extremely limited and doesn't seem to gain much attention. All I have ever seen as a manager are 'has a poor opinion of you' and 'feels the two of you could become friends'. Real life interaction is much more complex and varied than what we see in FM and plays a much larger role in football.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss how the interaction could be improved and implemented for further iterations and how bigger role it should play in the game.

Noone?

I agree that the manager interaction side of things is woefully lacking at current. At least now the players react to things you say in the media, but it still doesn't seem quite right. It impacts the players, but it should impact the managers a lot more as well.

(Apologies for not contributing much - I'm not passionate about this but I couldn't just let something like this slip way down without responses. Let's hope others chip in now as well...)

I totally agree here. Im not sure how they would go about it but something definately needs to be done

This area of the game along with interaction with players needs to be improved big time. Relationships between managers as Peter said are far more complex than the game has them. In game I am not sure you can even become friends with another manager.

The aspect I really would like to see is one where another manager says they want to sign your star player. We only have 3 options at the moment to reply sell at right price, sell at any price and hands off. I think these should be expanded. I manage Villarreal and Real Madrid want to sign Modric from me. I should be able to say.

Hands off he is not for sale.

He is not for sale and the way Real Madrids manager is acting is totally unprofessional.

There is no way I would sell Modric to Real Madrid especailly while Mr Whoever is their manager.

Modric is not for sale at any reasonable price.

Its would take a huge offer to get him away from us.

I want double what I paid for Modric.

I am sure there are many more, obviously some say he is not for sale, others may cause a bad relationship with the Madrid manager. The Madrid manager should be able to come out and say things like.

We will not give up on our persuit of Modric.

We respect the wishes of Mr. Acidburn and will stop our pursuit of Modric.

Although we admire Modric it is clear that Mr. Acidburn will not sell for any price therefore we have decided to pursue other targets.

There are lots of possible things that could happen from this and other scenarios. Relationships in the editor are set out of 100. So maybe this could be reflected in game.

90-100 - The best of friends with total respect for each other.

70-90 - Good friends.

60-70 - Friendly relationship with no bad feelings.

40-60 - Feels the two of you could be come friends.

30-40 - Slight disliking of each other.

10-30 - Strong disliking of each other bordering on hatred.

0-10 - Total distain for each can't bare to be in the same room.

Obviously these would be worded differently in game but you get the basic idea. All these relationships although having no real effect in game, could maybe make good and bad things happen. If your team is facing the team of a manager you hate maybe over time the club could develope into a rival club on the team info. Of course this would depend on if the clubs compete at a similar level.

Difficult to implement i would imagine, but id love to see it in future versions. its a side of the game that is, atm, sadly lacking in FM.

edit: top post, AcidBurn, really like those ideas!

In game I am not sure you can even become friends with another manager.

I became friends with Gareth Southgate (Managing Middlesborough) when I gave him the utmost praise for beating Arsenal (I was managing Tottenham)

...There are also a few modern day examples of managerial managerial relations that are happening now. Ferguson and Rafa, Moyes and Hughes, Warnock and everyone. And we hear about these goings on and they affect the footballing world largely.

Real life interaction is much more complex and varied than what we see in FM and plays a much larger role in football...

I think that player interaction, which is even more under-developed, has to take precedence, given that some managers get by without forming notable rivalries or friendships with their counterparts, but squad management is every managers bread-and-butter. Given that it's not an either/or situation though, I'd fully agree.

The aspect I really would like to see is one where another manager says they want to sign your star player...

...If your team is facing the team of a manager you hate maybe over time the club could develop into a rival club on the team info. Of course this would depend on if the clubs compete at a similar level.

Great post (before I hacked it up).

Moyes didn't merely "issue a hands-off warning", nor did he just "declare that he thinks Hughes will struggle to win the title this year" or whatever stupid options we get, to show his displeasure.

What your post made me think is that the main problem in FM manager interaction is that managers don't just randomnly come out and attack/praise each other.

A series of contentious matches has made Chelsea and Barcelona rivals to a level that they shouldn't be - even more so when Mourinho was there - given that Chelsea are new at the top table. But we don't really get options after contentious matches, except to abuse the ref; you can't pull a Wenger and criticise the other team's physicality or style of play; you can't launch joint attacks with your friends (see Fergie + Allardyce) on your enemies; you can't read out lists of FACKTS like Benitez. You can just declare love or hate at random for your counterparts.

I think that a weight needs to be placed on a manager's style of play, style of squad management and professionalism - which would tie in with my desire for we, the human managers, to be ranked in the same categories as the AI are - as these are the areas of conflict.

Wenger and Fergie have an interesting relationship because they were both espousing cavalier attacking football (Utd not so much anymore) in comparison to the ultimate pragmatists, Chelsea, and the former long-ball-to-Owen Liverpool; but, Wenger liked to be the cool, calm orchestrator, while Fergie was the fiery motivator (clichés, I know) so they clashed majorly.

Now that Fergie has calmed down with age (except towards Benitez) and Wenger has grown increasingly fiery (he often makes outbursts these days) they seem to get along better. Also, with Arsenal no longer Man Utd's main competition, meetings between the two have been less heated.

Fergie, as the elder statesman, has the respect, albeit not the love, of the other Premiership managers; Rafa B felt he was not getting his dues: so, in the heat of a title battle they clashed.

Mourinho never clashed with Fergie (but did with everyone else) because they are both loud and in-yer-face, ambitious and successful: they had common ground.

So, I think the pattern is that rivalries generally form in the heat of title races (Wenger vs Mourinho; Wenger vs Ferguson; Ferguson vs Benitez) or contentious matches in the latter stages of the biggest cups: Chelsea vs Barca (because they faced each other in so many dodgy games), and Chelsea vs Liverpool (if you think about it, they've never really challenged for the title at the same time - but they draw each other in Europe).

They also have to involve a clash of personalities, which is hard because FM managers don't really have them, or a clash of playing styles - Chelsea and Barca hate each other all the more because they are round-heads vs Cavaliers, whereas Arsenal vs Utd was a personality-based problem. Wenger is the only one who really argues with managers of "leser" clubs, because his playing style so greatly differs from theirs - hence the "anti-football" remarks that he, and whoever's Barca manager at any given time, like to throw around.

Tying into this, I think, has got to be the role of players. Keane, Van Nistlerooy, Vieira, Keown etc played out their manager's beef on the pitch, but Liverpool and Utd haven't really been at each other's throats, though their managers squabble; Arsenal's little uns didn't start kicking lumps out of Chelsea because Mourinho made those offensive (and weirdly persistent) insinuations about Wenger.

So yeah, I think a lot more could be done to how you interact with other clubs - not just managers - because so often the feuds arise when one manager defends his player against, say, an accusation of foul play or diving, or when one makes a bid for the other's star player (Hughes vs Moyes), or insults the oppo's lack of ambition (Wenger).

Direct comments on the other manager's ability are probably the least frequent method of feuding, but they're pretty much all we have in-game

Chelsea and Barcelona hate each other because of Mourinho and Messi's dive, not because of any "style clash". They hate each other because they remind themselves of each other.

Two really stunning posts.

Acidburn: The ideas you have portrayed are very good. I really like the way you have laid out the numbers and feel it would definitely be the best way to portray relationships. I do think there needs to be a much larger variety of comments available and, like Dekker said, managers don't come out randomly to praise each other, it is normally on the back of transfer or match events. I really enjoyed reading that.

Dekker2: Firstly, I agree that player interaction is much more important than the manager interaction, but I don't think we are limited to progress in one area so thought I would raise these points. You explained many real life manager relationships that occur and they bring that edge of excitement to games. I would love, as a manager, to get involved in similar relationships and AcidBurn listed some great ways to make that work.

What about interation with journo's in the press 'zzzzzzz' conference. Could something be done to spice up this part of the game? Really tedious in 09.

I'd like the mind games to be much better in FM10. Maybe upon starting a job you could send out a warning to rival managers, or proclaim you are the greatest manager in the world. Or you could respond to a manager's criticism with a discussion about the "facts". Or you could even get personal and question them as human beings, leading to the threat of possible legal action.

Idea clearly stolen from my thread

2. Expansion of relationship with other Managers

Feels you two could be friends/Has a fairly poor opinion of you just doesn't cut the mustard as far as immersion goes. There should be rivalries (possibly leading to new club rivalries as a result), proper friendships, more mind-games, more taunting, more rants, more praise, more respect. It's all part of the media circus that the nation knows and loves about the modern game, and it really should be included.

Would love press conferences with multiple managers at the same time - would certainly add an edge to online games!

I didn't steal it...

Yeah, sums up my thoughts very well CP.

Job Interview

This would be a short series of questions regarding the club you wish to take over and discussing your ambitions for the club and what you think is needed to help the club achieve the board’s expectations. This would obviously have an impact on board expectations and perhaps alleviate pressure in a first season when objectives can on occasion be set too high.

One example is:

Where do you see the club in 2 years time?

1. Challenging for silverware.

2. Challenging for Europe.

3. Maintaining a respectable position in the top flight.

4. Building for a successful future.

Leaving a Club

Simply justifying your decision to resign or change jobs, this is mainly for the benefit of the fans. I spent 4 trophy filled years at FC Bayern before leaving for AC Milan because the board were stalling on a contract. I checked FMM and found I was now one of FC Bayerns disliked personnel; the ability to tell the fans that it was out of my hands would be an excellent feature.

Example:

Why did you decide to leave (club) at this time?

1. Interference in day to day running of club by board.

2. New contract not forthcoming/felt the board had pushed you out.

3. Bigger fish to fry.

4. New challenge.

5. Chance to manage in European competition/(league) was too good to turn down.

6. Board didn’t share same ambition for the club.

Start of season press release

Give the fans an idea of what you expect, may help thwart over ambitious fan base e.g. Newcastle.

Example:

1. Challenge for league.

2. Focus on league/focus on maintaining league position/focus on maintaining top flight position.

3. Focus on cup competitions.

4. Avoid relegation.

5. European challenge.

New Signing Expectations

Give the fans an idea of what you expect from the player (squad status would play a big role in this) thus stopping the disappointment with back up loan signings.

Example:

1. Expect the player to have a big future at the club.

2. Player has been brought in to add depth to the team.

3. An excellent young prospect/see the best in 2 or 3 years time

Reasons for Board Request

Rather than just asking for more transfer funds etc I think we should be giving a reason for doing so, the board could then decide whether you need a player in this position or if the player you propose is worth the gamble.

Example:

1. More money needed to bring in new striker.

2. Feeder club to help improve young talent.

3. More wages to keep hold of star player.

4. Improve facilities to improve youth development.

End of Season Board Meeting

A basic gauge of how the board think you have got on in the prior season, a chance for you to explain yourself, ensure the board despite disappointment or tell them not to get carried away.

Example:

1. We over achieved this season and will need to improve the squad to continue this success.

2. Need to strengthen squad to push for expectations next season.

3. Intend to challenge/win again next season.

4. The club are going from strength to strength expect major improvements.

Blatantly a c&p Nom, at least change the formatting!

Board didn’t share same ambition for the club.

I agree that manager interaction, much like all forms of interaction with any other 'person' in game needs improving. Player interaction is in need of development more urgently though as the current system of doing things via the media is very unrealistic.

With manager interaction I think relationships need to feel more real. Currently I'm managing Lazio, and no matter what Spaletti (Still Roma manager in 2020) will slag me off before I play Roma, even if I've made friendly comments in the past. It is possible for managers of rival teams to have a good relationship.

Then there's the way I can change a bad relationship to a good one just by praising the AI manager. It should take time for these things to happen, it shouldn't be instant. In fact the whole liking/disliking process seems too instant even if there's no previous relationship.

Definitely something that needs looking at, but it is a complex area.

Blatantly a c&p Nom, at least change the formatting!

Board didn’t share same ambition for the club.

That's Ulster Scots

some fantastic posts in this thread! disappointed it hasnt been officially "tagged" yet, but i suppose theres hope....

there really is a huge amount of room for development in this area, and i hope its seriously looked at for future editions of FM, as i feel tis quite an important part. Atm its pretty much pointless (correct me if im wrong) and you gain no advantage whatsoever from being "friends" with someone in game. im sure there are plenty of instances irl where a manager has used his personal relationship with another to get a transfer or a loan deal pushed through, but we cant do that atm.

also agree (this is becoming a habit) with Nomis' post with the job interview n stuff. to me, thats a natural step forward for the game to take, having introduced the "confidence" feature, but as yet, shows no signs of surfacing in the game.

it IS a complex area, and it does need a lot of work, so im looking for something, maybe around fm12...

rinso, the advantage is transfers. I've had many offers accepted and rejected based on my relationships with managers.

rinso, the advantage is transfers. I've had many offers accepted and rejected based on my relationships with managers.

really ?? i think ive maybe had it stated once that they accepted my offer (loan) because of his good relationship with me...

still, it shouldnt end there, should it?? if said manager has a good relationship with me, then he can have a word in players ear, and tell him to pick my club over any others interested... does he?

edit: prolly should ignore that last bit, its a different can of worms to this debate... apologies for goin off at a tangerine