Help me keep possession with attacking intent

[Breezybaby1]

This tactic is great won me the league 2 seasons in a row with 1 champs league however keeping possession is a problem especially against teams who play on cautious or defensive. I’ve tried to counter this with pushing higher defensive line and higher loe but the possession is not consistent enough, I have a split block press with 5 players the front 5 and I’ve tried shorter passing and lower tempo etc, can anyone help me dominate possession and yes I’m aware some of you may tweak but I’m up for suggestions the league is already done and dusted  

[Breezybaby1]

Anybody please?

[Nes1995]

theres a few ways to get higher possession against teams who just pass around:

1.You can try an even more aggressive press in your front 3 players I tend to "press more" and "tackle harder" it can work but sometimes it can be to aggressive but it can work

2. look at scout reports I find the teams I lose possession to are the ones playing on a low mentality especially "defensive" mentality so I tend to go into these games by lowering the mentality of my own team go "balanced" so your players take less risk and keep hold of the ball longer before attempting an attack

3. Your tactic is not bad but you have no playmaker in your tactic so your players will naturally play a higher tempo football without a playmaker, try witsel as DLP on support and move CMd to your right midfielder and change your IFS to inverted winger you can even change Hakimi to FBA

see how it goes!

 

[Breezybaby1]

Unfortunately I’m struggling with the same thing after changes unless a team is playing balanced or higher mentality nothing I do help me maintain possession. Maybe I should press with 5 players rather than 4? 

[BigV]

Instead of playing attacking how about fight them at your own game? Push your LOE back, give them space and they'll get complacent. You have to open yourself up a little to reap the rewards.

LOE to standard or slightly higher with a normal/low defensive line= more space for them to play in so they'll up their game thats when you want a quick tempo game to throw them off and play it quicker. If they get cocky go direct and run at defenders/pass into space, usually works against lesser teams. OR find a formation that can push from the top and belittle their possession- 424/ 343 etc. 

[Breezybaby1]

12 minutes ago, BigV said:

Instead of playing attacking how about fight them at your own game? Push your LOE back, give them space and they'll get complacent. You have to open yourself up a little to reap the rewards.

LOE to standard or slightly higher with a normal/low defensive line= more space for them to play in so they'll up their game thats when you want a quick tempo game to throw them off and play it quicker. If they get cocky go direct and run at defenders/pass into space, usually works against lesser teams. OR find a formation that can push from the top and belittle their possession- 424/ 343 etc. 

That’s how my style has been, usually stripping them of possession and hitting them on counters however I know want to dominate possession but I can’t seem to do that when they’re passing freely at the back regardless of my press? Maybe I do need to drop the lines and bring them out more but I just feel if I do that they’ll be more comfortable passing in they’re own half. 

[BigV]

1 minute ago, Breezybaby1 said:

That’s how my style has been, usually stripping them of possession and hitting them on counters however I know want to dominate possession but I can’t seem to do that when they’re passing freely at the back regardless of my press? Maybe I do need to drop the lines and bring them out more but I just feel if I do that they’ll be more comfortable passing in they’re own half. 

Your press depends on your formation- your 4231 will press according to their positional roots. So your ST will press GK/CB's, RW-LB, LW-LB and CAM-centrally, changing formation to those I suggested maybe beneficial so a 424 would make your whole attack press that whole backline forcing them to go long (=less possession quite often) helping you in the proccess but you will need to weigh the risk to that. 

If you're giving them space then they WILL attack it as its exploitable, the AI sees it as a way to help them score, you ever notice in games that the AI switches mentality through the game? this is what will happen so they'll take more risks and with your quality you should be able to best it 7/8 out of 10 times giving you much more possession. 

BARE IN MIND possession doesn't mean much at all really when you're winning games, dont let the stats fool you. 

[Breezybaby1]

2 hours ago, BigV said:

Your press depends on your formation- your 4231 will press according to their positional roots. So your ST will press GK/CB's, RW-LB, LW-LB and CAM-centrally, changing formation to those I suggested maybe beneficial so a 424 would make your whole attack press that whole backline forcing them to go long (=less possession quite often) helping you in the proccess but you will need to weigh the risk to that. 

If you're giving them space then they WILL attack it as its exploitable, the AI sees it as a way to help them score, you ever notice in games that the AI switches mentality through the game? this is what will happen so they'll take more risks and with your quality you should be able to best it 7/8 out of 10 times giving you much more possession. 

BARE IN MIND possession doesn't mean much at all really when you're winning games, dont let the stats fool you. 

Ok so this possession thing is confusing me now these past 2 games against top opposition in the league (Bayern Munich, Bayer Leverkusen) I went positive, lower tempo with the normal d line and loe and I dominated possession and they were playing cautious/defensive yet when I play against some bottom opposition they maintain the ball so well and like I said when I push the line up and loe nothing much changes so what am I not noticing here? 

[BigV]

3 hours ago, Breezybaby1 said:

Ok so this possession thing is confusing me now these past 2 games against top opposition in the league (Bayern Munich, Bayer Leverkusen) I went positive, lower tempo with the normal d line and loe and I dominated possession and they were playing cautious/defensive yet when I play against some bottom opposition they maintain the ball so well and like I said when I push the line up and loe nothing much changes so what am I not noticing here? 

I dont want to confuse you cause of the technicals. The match engine (what we see when they play) dictates the game, it is known to have imbalances, such as one you've stated, cautious/defensive create possession imbalances SOMETIMES- particularly those smaller clubs. 

You can counter this, you just gotta perservere and check the game tactically and analytical. Pushing the line up will literally create pockets of space maybe big spaces where they can completely take you out with possession (poessession is how long they hold the ball for not the amount of passes they make successfully). Have you told your players to close down more? according to your screenshot you dont have it so they're being pushed up but only closing down sometimes. 

Again if that doesnt work, check top heavy formations where they press from the front (4231 usually is good with that). Or try lowering the LOE with closing down sometimes in turn making the AI push for a more positive/attacking approach making it more risky for them and for you to win the ball back and counter. 

[Breezybaby1]

21 minutes ago, BigV said:

I dont want to confuse you cause of the technicals. The match engine (what we see when they play) dictates the game, it is known to have imbalances, such as one you've stated, cautious/defensive create possession imbalances SOMETIMES- particularly those smaller clubs. 

You can counter this, you just gotta perservere and check the game tactically and analytical. Pushing the line up will literally create pockets of space maybe big spaces where they can completely take you out with possession (poessession is how long they hold the ball for not the amount of passes they make successfully). Have you told your players to close down more? according to your screenshot you dont have it so they're being pushed up but only closing down sometimes. 

Again if that doesnt work, check top heavy formations where they press from the front (4231 usually is good with that). Or try lowering the LOE with closing down sometimes in turn making the AI push for a more positive/attacking approach making it more risky for them and for you to win the ball back and counter. 

Yes I have my front 5 on close down more on pi and fair enough gonna test this out and let you know the results 

[BigV]

6 minutes ago, Breezybaby1 said:

Yes I have my front 5 on close down more on pi and fair enough gonna test this out and let you know the results 

Close down is TI check your out of possession tab top right (not sure if that was a typo), cool anything else leme know 

[Breezybaby1]

52 minutes ago, BigV said:

Close down is TI check your out of possession tab top right (not sure if that was a typo), cool anything else leme know 

No I meant pi as in player instruction idea is I don’t want to be pulling my all my players out just my front 5, tried a couple more game but it’s just the same can’t dominate possession even with the front 5 pressing I have both my cm’s on hold position because of the wingbacks but other than that this possession thing I’m completely lost 

[Djuicer]

This thread by @crusadertsar has lots and lots of ideas for how to create that kind of style.

 

 

On top of my head you are playing with a top heavy formation, on a positive mentality and maxed out LOE and DLINE. 

Lacking all kinds of creativity. The inside forward role is more of a scorer than a creator. Try changeing one of them to the inverted winger instead. The midfield has three very generic roles. Which can work but then you really need creativity from other places of the pitch. Try change one of the two on support to an AP or DLP instead. In the defence the WBs on support should be fine, but in the centre you might need a ball playing defender to help Onana playing out of the back.

 

I use this as my current setup and It works decent.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Djuicer

[Breezybaby1]

3 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

This thread has lots and lots of ideas for how to create that kind of style.

 

 

On top of my head you are playing with a top heavy formation, on a positive mentality and maxed out LOE and DLINE. 

Lacking all kinds of creativity. The inside forward role is more of a scorer than a creator. Try changeing one of them to the inverted winger instead. The midfield has three very generic roles. Which can work but then you really need creativity from other places of the pitch. Try change one of the two on support to an AP or DLP instead. In the defence the WBs on support should be fine, but in the centre you might need a ball playing defender to help Onana playing out of the back.

 

I use this as my current setup and It works decent.

Do you not find work ball into box difficult? Especially when ur essentially trying to suffocate ur opponent? 

[Djuicer]

Just now, Breezybaby1 said:

Do you not find work ball into box difficult? Especially when ur essentially trying to suffocate ur opponent? 

No not really, it's a tool I use to increase my possession numbers. It also decreases crossing and long shots. However its not always benificial.

The key point I was trying to make was options for roles which you can use in your setup. I for example have a creative role up top. A creator down the right. A creator in midfield. An inside forward on the left with an overlapping wing back.

 

An example of two common goals we score are those. First the IF and then the F9.

 

 

[Breezybaby1]

5 minutes ago, Djuicer said:

No not really, it's a tool I use to increase my possession numbers. It also decreases crossing and long shots. However its not always benificial.

The key point I was trying to make was options for roles which you can use in your setup. I for example have a creative role up top. A creator down the right. A creator in midfield. An inside forward on the left with an overlapping wing back.

 

An example of two common goals we score are those. First the IF and then the F9.

 

 

Does ‘be more expressive’ help out with that because as I’m a big team opponent will have a field day watching me try and work it into the box while then have all 10 men back

[Djuicer]

Just now, Breezybaby1 said:

Does ‘be more expressive’ help out with that because as I’m a big team opponent will have a field day watching me try and work it into the box while then have all 10 men back

I would say it helps a tiny bit at times. Overloads and switches of play helps more. Those can be created with roles, duties and at times PPMs.

Regarding overloads you can dig into this by @Jack722

 

 

[Breezybaby1]

This is what confuses me I’m camped in their area yet they have 61% possession my tactics haven’t changed much other than removing prevent short gk (because they was just passing it out to the fullbacks) and adding shorter passing and lower tempo, this tactic is good for my team and I’m half happy because it’s brings us results and good football but the possession is just SOOOOO inconsistent it drives me mad oh and positive mentality as well because on balanced I don’t like my cb being on defensive mentality 

[Breezybaby1]

23 hours ago, Breezybaby1 said:

Does ‘be more expressive’ help out with that because as I’m a big team opponent will have a field day watching me try and work it into the box while then have all 10 men back

Post above

[Bluebird123]

4 hours ago, Breezybaby1 said:

This is what confuses me I’m camped in their area yet they have 61% possession my tactics haven’t changed much other than removing prevent short gk (because they was just passing it out to the fullbacks) and adding shorter passing and lower tempo, this tactic is good for my team and I’m half happy because it’s brings us results and good football but the possession is just SOOOOO inconsistent it drives me mad oh and positive mentality as well because on balanced I don’t like my cb being on defensive mentality 

See how deep all their players are? They have 8 players camped in their half so if they are playing on a cautious/defensive mentality they will play it among themselves until they hoof it back to you because they have no options. The way FM calculates possession is different to irl so you are going to have this issue whenever playing against these types of teams. As long as you are completing more passes than them and scoring goals don't focus on the possession stat.

[Breezybaby1]

4 hours ago, Bluebird123 said:

See how deep all their players are? They have 8 players camped in their half so if they are playing on a cautious/defensive mentality they will play it among themselves until they hoof it back to you because they have no options. The way FM calculates possession is different to irl so you are going to have this issue whenever playing against these types of teams. As long as you are completing more passes than them and scoring goals don't focus on the possession stat.

Thank you this was driving my head in I’ll look out for more passing stats however I think they’ll have more if not equal to me if they’re passing among themselves 

[BigV]

5 hours ago, Breezybaby1 said:

Thank you this was driving my head in I’ll look out for more passing stats however I think they’ll have more if not equal to me if they’re passing among themselves 

Thats not how it works- as ive said before possession is how long they keep the ball for, NOT completed passes. Maybe if you actually told them press more as a TI not PI then you'll get what you want.

Again if you drop deep they will be encouraged to move further up and take evasive/attacing actions.

Possession isn't everything, if you're winning these type of games then do not worry about it, why change something if it works????