How Best to Train Tackling?

[Spo_Kesperson]

I haven't played for a few years so obviously the training is taking me a little while to get used to.

I notice that you can't select anything from the individual training list that'll help with tackling so I wondered how best to do it. Is it a case of choosing a session from the Defending section in the team training and picking one that impacts tackling?

(Edit: If I wish to improve the tackling of a ball winning midfielder is it advisable to put him in with the defensive unit? Or is there enough tackling improvement that can be chosen from the attacking unit sessions?)

Edited November 20, 2019 by Spo_Kesperson

[Pedroig]

Both Aggression and Tackling are missing from the individual training focus list.  It's almost like you need another player to practice those...

Defending Engaged will gill give you the most "bang for your buck" in the defending unit, for the attacking unit Defend from the Front is only real option.

That being said, Positioning is more important than Tackling for said tackle to be successful.  Just like in real life, missed tackles happen more because of bad positioning than actual bad tackling technique.  And you can work Positioning with individual focus.

[Rashidi]

Generally, there are 3 ways you can train someone to improve an attribute

1. There is a team training session, this is the one with individual sessions that can be created for a week, within these sessions there are some that improve tackling for attacking and defensive units. So even a striker can be made to improve tackling.

2. There are specific position/role training options that allow you to choose the role/position a player should focus on and this in turn has a distribution of attributes that's affected

3. Additional focus training. This is customised training for individual trainings that focus on a specific area of focus and may improve between 1-3 attributes.

When you elect to train someone you can choose to have him in the attacking/defensive unit. It makes natural sense for a player whose primary focus is attacking to be in the attacking unit, eg. Winger. There are sessions for these group of players that improve defensive attributes too.

For more specific training where the primary purpose is to improve a player's defensive abilities its sometimes best to leave him in the defensive unit and make him focus more on defensive unit training sessions. However if you want more all round development you can choose BWM(S) as a role, and the specifically tell him to train positioning ( this improves defensive mental attributes) and the role training hits those attributes relevant to the role including tackling.

There are more specific ways of doing this too. I am very detailed with training, and sometimes I opt to leave a player with the defensive unit for 4 months and move him to the attacking unit for 4 months once I feel his defensive attributes are good enough.

Training is pretty organic, you are really free to approach it any way you want. I did a quick guide where I showed how I only use one training session in preseason for the whole team. That training session can be adapted for the whole team too once preseason is over pretty easily and all you need to focus on is additional focus training.

[Miravlix]

All the training does even if the player is 15 years old and until they peak is give you an extra point or two.

I've no idea what the % is, but it seems like it's something like 99% is hidden progression and 1% training.

 

Training basically is mostly pointless, though you can sometimes (not always) use it to train a new position and it seems to help/hinder role familiarity, if you have a guy playing BBM/S, but have him training as CM/D it seems a lot harder for the player to get familiar with the actual role on the pitch.  In FM20 it seems like trying to teach a striker to be an AML/AMR/AMC means he keeps having trouble being a striker. The game forces you to train the role they use on pitch or they will struggle to learn the on pitch role to perfection.

[Pedroig]

@Miravlix have you tested your "theory" and not run any training to see what happens to attributes with just match time?  Might as well just put everyone on rest and just play matches since training is "pointless".

[Seb Wassell]

4 hours ago, Miravlix said:

All the training does even if the player is 15 years old and until they peak is give you an extra point or two.

I've no idea what the % is, but it seems like it's something like 99% is hidden progression and 1% training.

This is wide of the mark.

Very broadly, progression describes if the player develops, training describes how the player develops.

4 hours ago, Miravlix said:

Training basically is mostly pointless, though you can sometimes (not always) use it to train a new position and it seems to help/hinder role familiarity, if you have a guy playing BBM/S, but have him training as CM/D it seems a lot harder for the player to get familiar with the actual role on the pitch.  In FM20 it seems like trying to teach a striker to be an AML/AMR/AMC means he keeps having trouble being a striker. The game forces you to train the role they use on pitch or they will struggle to learn the on pitch role to perfection.

You've misunderstood how this works.

Training a player for a new position will improve their positional familiarity in that position (graphically represented by the coloured dot on the profile pitch).

Role suitability (the fully/partially filled coloured dots in list form on the profile) is not something that is learned, it is a graphical representation of how suitable the player's attributes are for that role relative to their positional ability here.

[Spo_Kesperson]

22 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I did a quick guide where I showed how I only use one training session in preseason for the whole team. That training session can be adapted for the whole team too once preseason is over pretty easily and all you need to focus on is additional focus training.

Is that guide available on this forum or in video form? 

[Rashidi]

Check the quick guides pinned at the top, I did a show explaining setting up a season's training that's the one you want to watch. Somehow somewhere those videos were deleted, must have happened while I was sleeping

 

[yonko]

10 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

Role suitability (the fully/partially filled coloured dots in list form on the profile) is not something that is learned, it is a graphical representation of how suitable the player's attributes are for that role relative to their positional ability here.

And that Role Suitability is misleading most of the time. I largely ignore it and just analyze the attributes myself based on which one I think are important for what I want the player to do.

Overall, I wish training sessions had a lot more impact on the success of tactics and the execution of tactical elements, other than filling out tactical Familiarity bar(s).

Basically, sessions like Defend From the Front and Transition Press should effect the code in the ME when your team executes high pressing strategy. Or Playing Out Of Defense and Ball Distribution should effect your possession game in the ME.

[Rashidi]

32 minutes ago, yonko said:

And that Role Suitability is misleading most of the time. I largely ignore it and just analyze the attributes myself based on which one I think are important for what I want the player to do.

It is and it isn't. It really depends on your starting point with the game. For you personally you are familiar with the game, and you design your own tactics so you know what you are looking for. And that's something I appreciate cos I do the same thing. There are times even I look at role suitability as a quick guide when I want someone to play in a specific position, if the role suitability gauge tells me something is off I usually check to see what attributes are not in sync with what I value. It can be helpful for those who probably aren't familiar with the game.

Personally speaking training plays quite a big role for me in the overall sum of things. The linkage between training and tactics is now visibly connected in terms of match performances, and I feel the same way as you about the interrelationship between the two.

[Bothan Spy]

Nevermind 'tackling', I nearly wept tears of joy when I saw that they had brought back 'heading' & 'crossing' for individual training! 

[Seb Wassell]

7 hours ago, yonko said:

Overall, I wish training sessions had a lot more impact on the success of tactics and the execution of tactical elements, other than filling out tactical Familiarity bar(s).

Basically, sessions like Defend From the Front and Transition Press should effect the code in the ME when your team executes high pressing strategy. Or Playing Out Of Defense and Ball Distribution should effect your possession game in the ME.

There are specific sessions that focus on influencing the next match, under "Match Preparation".

The ones that you mention are about developing attributes over time in order to implement a long term tactical philosophy. They also impact tactical familiarity, which pretty much does exactly what you are asking it to, meaning your players are more able to play the way that you want.

[Spo_Kesperson]

13 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Check the quick guides pinned at the top, I did a show explaining setting up a season's training that's the one you want to watch. Somehow somewhere those videos were deleted, must have happened while I was sleeping

 

Thank you very much. I'll have a look at those right now.

[yonko]

19 hours ago, Rashidi said:

It is and it isn't. It really depends on your starting point with the game. For you personally you are familiar with the game, and you design your own tactics so you know what you are looking for. And that's something I appreciate cos I do the same thing. There are times even I look at role suitability as a quick guide when I want someone to play in a specific position, if the role suitability gauge tells me something is off I usually check to see what attributes are not in sync with what I value. It can be helpful for those who probably aren't familiar with the game.

Personally speaking training plays quite a big role for me in the overall sum of things. The linkage between training and tactics is now visibly connected in terms of match performances, and I feel the same way as you about the interrelationship between the two.

I still think it's misleading even for newer players because they get wrapped up in the suitability when they are building tactics, rather than understand what the roles actually do and how they combine on the field. 

13 hours ago, Seb Wassell said:

There are specific sessions that focus on influencing the next match, under "Match Preparation".

The ones that you mention are about developing attributes over time in order to implement a long term tactical philosophy. They also impact tactical familiarity, which pretty much does exactly what you are asking it to, meaning your players are more able to play the way that you want.

My point is that all training sessions should have an impact on tactics and beyond just familiarity. I think it should be an ongoing process throughout the whole season. Training is still too much about attributes rather than better tactical execution. 

Pep and Klopp continuously work on their team's style of play. 

Train the way you play and play the way you train.

Maybe the Familiarity bar should fill up slower over the season. Maybe there should be more variety added to the Match Prep sessions.

[Miravlix]

On 21/11/2019 at 17:22, Seb Wassell said:

This is wide of the mark.

Very broadly, progression describes if the player develops, training describes how the player develops.

You've misunderstood how this works.

Training a player for a new position will improve their positional familiarity in that position (graphically represented by the coloured dot on the profile pitch).

Role suitability (the fully/partially filled coloured dots in list form on the profile) is not something that is learned, it is a graphical representation of how suitable the player's attributes are for that role relative to their positional ability here.

Of what mark, the player develops no matter how I train them, all focus in training does is give me 1-2 point here and there if I focus fresh regen until they finish developing. If I don't focus train he is still going to be a 18 finishing player, focus training doesn't magically create a Messi, the player is Messi at birth and over time his stats is revealed. This is the biggest problem with scouting, because I can scout a player and even at 15 I can tell that he has no chance of being Messi when developed.

 

Players has tactical familary and positions, if you train AMR, but play the player as ST, he WILL have trouble learning tactical familary of ST. I'm not sure why you talk about role suitability.

[Pedroig]

@Miravlix so you can just go ahead and put your team on complete rest and you will get that 18 finishing player in a couple of years?

PA is not a "set stat" it can move up (but more often down) throughout a player's career, and that movement is most affected by training and play time/performance.

It is interesting that when the person who designed/developed the current system tells one of their misconception one refuses to believe them.

[FulhamFc14]

Also wondering this. I had a couple of young players on 14 for tackling and was really hoping they would progress to 15 but neither did. I put them in my defensive unit and ensured that a fair share of defensive sessions were in my schedule. Anything else I can do to help this?