FM19.3.2 Primal Instinct - Mentality matters... (Updated)

[optimusprimal82]

*** Tactic versions will be updated periodically - check back to ensure you're rocking the latest version as needed ***

 

Hey all,

You may (or may not) have spotted me hijacking Knap's TIME thread over the last few weeks as I blasted through seasons to better get to grips with the underlying match engine and - more importantly - mentality!

A lot of people browsing this forum likely have little interest in changing up mentalities and prefer to 'plug and play' with the current 'best tactic' that guarantees goals, goals, goals! Absolutely nothing wrong with that approach (of course), but let me stop right here if that sounds like you and suggest/throw a little redirect over to Knap's Beowulf thread (believe 424 is his current champion, but he's got more than a few good options!), because whilst I'm really happy with this set and stand behind them completely, they require a little bit more management and intervention to really get them to shine (and try as I might, they haven't been able to get Cardiff to win the EPL yet, unlike one of our resident tactical masters offerings! )

So if you're still reading, mentality... what's the deal? Many of you long term players will have seen the many many changes that have been made to mentality over the years in both CM and FM; back in the day it was all a little bit simpler, but as our favourite management game has grown, so too has the complexity, with the original few options expanded, reduced, replaced by sliders, transformed to drop downs and all manner of other things under the hood (not always for the better!);

Going back a few (read: far too many) years, a number of 'new' mentality options were introduced into the mix such as 'contain' & 'control', and these have (unless my memory missed a year) been staples of the series until this year's effort. Now whilst the names may have changed, what hasn't is that mentality still manages to be one of the more confusing aspects of the FM tactics set for players old and new, so much so, that many people continue to dash to that drop-down, only to find that 'defensive' alone isn't enough (by a long shot) to protect that 2 goal cushion!

Now I'm not about to launch into a lecture on "What is mentality?" as there are already some great guides out there (this is one of my favourites) however I have spent faaaaar too much time over the last few weeks analysing and identifying mentality in regards to the part it plays during the ebb and flow of a game and where the human player often comes unstuck against our AI counterpart. What started out as a favour for a friend, quickly became something I was - and probably still am - thinking about far too much. If you think about how so many people play the game, they may create/download one tactic set and swap between 'Attacking' and 'Defensive' as circumstances dictate - but is that really the best way? A balanced approach is surely the sweet spot for any manager, but if the opposition comes with an ultra offensive/double decker, would you prefer to fight back with a balanced 'jack of all trades' or have the option to switch between full sets as you go? Is an 'Ultra Defensive' 4-2-3-1 really all that defensive when as part of your original instructions the attackers have been told to 'take more risks' and to 'run at the defence'? If you're winning 2-1 in the final of the champions league, do you really want your star AMC to be playing through balls to your tired striker, or would you prefer he plays the simple ball and your team retains possession? The same is true of formation; even the biggest teams withdraw strikers late on to be replaced by towering centre halves in a bid to fend off late game comebacks - it's only natural that we (read: you!) need to be doing the same in FM...

A couple of weeks ago, I wrote up a lot of my findings, the (self-proclaimed) star of the show being a 'Mentality Masterplan'; a lot of the time, players can see/know that they need to change something but - often from a position of obscurity (& through no fault of their own) - they do the wrong thing, play right into the (evil) AI's hands and bite their own fist off when yet another 2-0 lead becomes a 3-2 loss. The aim of the Masterplan was/is to help guide players who find themselves in this situation to a more informed choice as to what exactly they can do to change the outcome of the match; if it looks like the AI are going to score, rest assured if you do nothing they will score. More than once. Sadly, even the best plan is no guarantee, the other pitfall people fall into is constantly tweaking tactics/mentality when perhaps there are other things to blame, such as morale or the fact that the players on your team may not actually be as good as you think they are - many people rush to buy wonderkids as a top side, unaware that as good as they'll likely be in a few years, their moniker doesn't guarantee a superstar level potential ability, nor does it mean they're playing at Messi's level yet - it simply means that for their age they have tremendous ability which is likely below the level of a fair few players starting out in the top sides (and no, I'm not saying don't buy wonderkids, just be wary of unknowingly weakening your team!). Useful/patronising (you decide) nuggets like this fill out the rest of the guide, and for those that haven't seen it yet/would like to, you can find it here - if you're planning on using the tactics below then I at least recommend you read the page on 'CTRL/SUS' tactics! 

For the tactics themselves, I've gone with a formation and players instructions that (try) to fit the main purpose of the tactic set - a big thanks here to Knap for letting me do so much of the mentality testing (and moulding a few sets in the process) using his tactic sets, I'd be lying if I said having gotten to know his setups so well that the offerings below aren't heavily influenced by him! Another quick word to Mr U Rosler, his 'Steadfast' creation is an incredibly solid, well put together tactic that I've learnt an awful lot from and borrowed (heavily) from, especially for the CTRLCNTR tactic.

 

The mentality first approach...

Whilst the BASE tactic below may not suit your team's players/particular style of play, that doesn't mean you can't take the 'mentality' ideas forward and use them with your own tactics! I've been testing the BASE/CTRLCNTR/CTRL/SUS method for a while now, using a number of different sets and the theory is the same even if the actual tactic files have variations - the principles for a BASE/CTRLCNTR/CTRL/SUS should be the same regardless! If you're a team that's relatively weak ability wise for your division, you may want to set your base as a slightly more adventurous than the CTRL 4-1-4-1, or expand just a little with a 4-4-1-1/4-4-2 (Knaps TIME variants of these last 2 are particularly good/recommended). From your base, you can create a relative CTRL/SUS yourself using the information sheet attached above (or use the examples below). The CTRLCNTR is a newer step I've introduced over the last few weeks; if you score a couple of goals (2-3) you may notice the AI tends to respond pretty aggressively - if this is mid-late in the second half, the CTRL/SUS combo should be enough to fend them off, if it's a bit earlier in the game (primarily the first half) then moving straight to CTRL may be inviting some undue pressure a little early, to that end we use a CTRLCNTR, essentially a more defensive version of a BASE tactic (which can also be useful to start with in tricky away games!). The 4-5-1/4-3-3 in my main set is a little too attacking from a position perspective so we want something a little more solid to give us an attacking outlet whilst keeping the door shut at the other end - Mr U Rosler & Knap did a great job with their 4-1-4-1 variants (Steadfast & TIME respectively) so I took the many great bits from them and created something that maintains a good balance.

 

BASE is the main set and this version intended to dominate possession and create scoring opportunities for your side (default mentality: attack*). I've called it a 451, the AI calls it a 4-3-3, regardless, the striker will be your main scorer in this formation (even with current ME issues), ably supported by the two AMC's. It is (or it was at 19.2.3) super high tempo to pressure the opponent so if changing mentality down (to beat parked buses etc) or you're giving the ball away a lot, consider changing tempo down by a notch (or two);

 

PrimalInstinct_451_BASE_19.3.2_v1.0.fmf

 

CTRLCNTR is your 'go-to' for difficult away games or when you're a couple of goals to the good in the first half and notice the AI shot counter starting to tick up - it usually means they've reacted to what you're doing and are not just going to take a beating so you should be reacting too! Default mentality is Balanced, suggest if away or playing a much tougher opponent you consider Cautious/Defensive - if you find that you're using Defensive/Very Defensive though then consider moving down to CTRL.

 

PrimalInstinct_4141_CTRLCNTR_STEADFASTinTIME_19.3.2_v1.0.fmf

 

CTRL is your more defensive game set. If you're being overrun by superior opposition or a few goals to the good in the second half and expecting the (inevitable) comeback, this is for you (default mentality: defensive**). It makes sense to find a player (or two) who can play both DM & CM to save having to make extra substitutes when you change down to CTRL/SUS. Note that if you're only using CTRL/SUS to close games out it's not quite as important, but fortunately a lot of more defensive minded CM's have at least 'competent' rating for DM.

 

PrimalInstinct_451_CTRL_19.3.2_v1.0.fmf

 

SUS is for when you've got enough goals and you'd like to sit on your haul whilst you wait for the final whistle. Be wary of using this before 80-82 minutes as you're inviting a lot of pressure onto you. Be mindful of low mentality players who appear 'anxious' towards the end of the game as they are a penalty/awful backpass waiting to happen. Don't worry too much about the DM's being proper DM's, I regularly play my MC's/AMC's there as you're only usually using SUS for the last 10-15 minutes of a game (SUS can also be useful if you have a player sent off)

 

PrimalInstinct_451_SUS_19.3.2_v1.0.fmf

 

*You can overload the ME using only attack if you wish, however if adopting mentality as the match unfolds/following the 'masterplan' I prefer to start on 'Cautious' for the first 10-12 minutes of the game to prevent teams rushing you from kick-off.

**Stronger teams can probably get away with using Cautious/Balanced - pay attention to the shot counter, if the AI is having continuous shots without reply then change down mentality!

 

So when do I change 'Mentality'?

Hmm, if you're asking this then I'm sad - the answer is up above in the 'Mentality Masterplan'!  Ok, to be fair it's a little full-on/hardcore, however I really do recommend taking the time to go through it if you plan to adopt this approach/are using a team that isn't challenging for the Champions League as it'll help explain things much better & prepare you for all sorts of eventualities! The TL;DR version however (and this is incredibly simplified);

Start with BASE. If difficult away game consider starting with CTRL on Cautious/Defensive.

Change mentality/between BASE/CTRL as the game dictates - my golden rule is if the AI has 2-3 shots without reply then you need to change (unless on SUS in last 10). Using 'Attacking' away from home as a lower ability (relative to your current division) side is dangerous, try positive if nervous

Make subs between 60-72 minutes. If winning I leave it as late as possible (72 minutes), making 2 usually. This is a good time to change down to CTRL if winning). If losing, make subs a little earlier (60-65 minutes). Watch for AI subs, they nearly always get a performance boost after them so be prepared to react with your own/change to CTRL.

I don't use opposition instructions until I'm winning comfortably/changed to CTRL, then i'll agree with whatever Ass Man suggests (no idea if this helps or not)

I always activate SUS at 80-82 minutes, never before (red cards aside).

If you get a red card, consider using CTRL on Cautious/Defensive before changing to SUS. Gauge how well your team are coping and try to stay ahead.

The CTRL/SUS don't have counter-press enabled to reduce the number of fouls conceded and thus the amount of (annoyingly dangerous) free kicks the AI get around your box

The AI WILL score at some point, it's unavoidable. Don't fall into the trap of going too attacking to recover - they're waiting for you to make that mistake, slow and steady can win that race (balanced can be very useful in this situation)

 

FM Touch Users;

A bit of a bonus to overcome the annoyance of installing tactics on tablets etc! 'Match plans' are automated tactic changes you can implement so that changes will be made in-game automatically without you having to do anything. They're flawed beyond use in the main/classic game as the Assistant Manager can't be told not to make substitutions and will regularly take off a rotated/young player for someone on your bench he thinks is better, as early as 25-30 minutes. This isn't the case on Touch where you can either tell him to leave alone entirely, or designate the earliest he's allowed to make subs at all (injuries permitting). What this means is I've set up a (very simplified) match plan that encompasses a little of the 'mentality changes' mentioned above to change things for you if desired;

 

Please ensure before importing that you've imported all three tactics into the 'manage mentalities' window. Afterwards, check that the first two scenarios as illustrated refer to CTRL and SUS respectively.

 

Set Pieces

Sadly with the ME having one or two issues still, set pieces are currently exploitable. The set pieces within all three tactics are - I believe - designed to take advantage of these exploits, although I can't remember scoring more than 5 goals from a corner in all my time playing FM19! The throw-in exploit sadly is a thing (users have sighted the AI using it in a few rare cases too). If you don't want to use them, once imported, just remove them from the editor/reset them to default and feel free to design some of your own! Full kudos to Knap (again) for the set piece settings in all three of my tactics as they are 100% his work, not mine! 

IMPORTANT: Note that if you set up set pieces - or even if you use the defaults within the tactics - when you swap between the sets the game loves to muddle up the player layout in set pieces. You'll still have a body in the designated position, it just may not be the actual player specified (so your MR may stay back at corners instead of a full back etc). The first few times you change up you may want to pay attention to see if there are any detrimental knock-ons etc; no point having a 210cm STC who sits on the halfway line at corners!

 

Some test results; these were conducted on both FM classic and Touch, the touch versions were all using the PrimalInstinct match plan as detailed above;

Tottenham Hotspur (Touch);

 

Man City (touch):

Aguero on fire!! 

 

Liverpool (Touch):

Actually ran the test a couple of times as Liverpool whilst tweaking; weirdly this is the first save where the AM used Salah as the striker as opposed to Firmino. STC has been top scorer in every test run.

 

Man Utd (Touch):

Pogba with 40 goals from midfield, Sanchez got 30 and Lukaku with 58!?

 

Everton/Cardiff (Touch):

These tests more for fun than anything - I wouldn't recommend starting a lot of their respective away games with BASE set to attacking, but interesting to see even though that's what happened in the test, they still finished top scorers for the division, both as a team and golden boot (Tosun and Zohore respectively). Also interesting to note that Cardiff finished 10th in the Everton save too, albeit 10 points worse off (they got relegated with just 11 in the Liverpool test).

 

Millwall  - promoted (Classic):

 

FC United - had to do them! (Classic);

72 goals not a bad return, but what about the right back with 27 assists!?

[Robson 07]

Little upvote from me.  Great to see some thinking and strategy.  Congrats also on the mentality masterplan.

[jjavalon]

Thank you very much for your awesome work. I am reading and pondering it thoroughly.

[optimusprimal82]

Thanks all, glad it's proving useful or - at the very least - thought provoking! 

 

There's a lot more of my rambling/thoughts/observations littered through Knaps TIME tactics thread as I was using a couple of his tactics to verify the mentality stuff (needed a confirmed & awesome tactic set to eliminate variables etc). I managed to take FC United from the Vanarama North to the Prem in back to back seasons using this approach and wrote (warning: at length) about it over there which may be of further help/interest (main reason I created this here was to stop me hijacking Knaps thread! ) - I also posted tweaked and CTRL/SUS variants of his stuff in there which I also heartily recommend!

Not 100% happy with the SUS yet if anyone is using it, so will be toying with it/testing further.

[optimusprimal82]

I've had a couple of people asking for better in-game examples of how this all works - it's just worked like a dream (it doesn't always - cards, penalties, worldies, free kicks and injuries can throw several spanners into the works!) in my last game it's a good opportunity;

This is my 2nd season in the premier league, despite being predicted to finish 20th in our first season, we actually finished 7th and won the Carabao cup in a bizarre final (we had 2 guys sent off) which naturally I was very happy with;

Despite that, the - frankly pretty rubbish - media prediction suggested 17th was the best we could hope for this season, an idea we've made a mockery of with losses only to the top 6, a red card affected game at Newcastle and an opening day disaster at Brighton (Liverpool are insanely good this year - all of their midfield/attack have 17+ dribbling and two of their newgens just tore me to shreds home and away!);

Taking all of this into account, the media decided that for our forthcoming game against Arsenal, perhaps we had enough about us to go and win the game;

Now the start of season media prediction may be a waste of time (as it seems to pay more attention to reputation than actual squad ability), these pre-game mails however are incredibly useful for telling you how to approach the game;

• If the ref has dished out a lot of reds, consider turning hard tackling off/reducing pressing intensity to save yourself a headache
• If you're heavy favourites, the AI will likely defend in numbers/counter attack - passing into space may be unwise, flat out attacking may not be the best idea from kick off to avoid a smash & grab etc
• If you're a massive underdog, using an aggressive attacking tactic is likely to see you smashed six ways from Sunday - adjust your starting formation and mentality accordingly.

 

Now with the description above and the fact we're playing at home I tend to favour bravery; aware that Arsenal are a dangerous team, I consider starting with CTRLCNTR but feel bold enough to start with my base, albeit on 'Cautious' mentality - the AI predictably goes with a 4-1-2-3 (top teams usual choice away from home against a rival); in an attacking sense we measure up well with our 5 man midfield outnumbering their 3, in particular the 2 x AMC's giving their DMC a headache. Defensively our full backs are potentially a little exposed 1 v 1 against their two wide players and with our wingers set to 'Attack', but if we can dominate possession then hopefully we starve them of the ball & we can worry about that as the game wears on - naturally if we don't score early then they'll definitely start to become a threat on the counter!

Game start - BASE on Cautious

As it plays out, we're in luck - one decent team talk and we come flying out of the traps, managing to score in the 10th minute just before my '12 minute mentality check'. As Arsenal have barely had the ball I change up to attacking 

FC United score (1-0): 10 mins - change up to Attacking

The onslaught continues as we continually dominate midfield and push the gunners back. It seems likely we'll score again (which in FM can often mean anything but!) which we do, a second going in on 21 minutes. Knowing Arsenal are a top side and they generally react quite aggressively I watch the next few minutes closely - sure enough, 2 shots from them in 2 minutes is all the evidence I need;

FC United Score (2-0): 21-23 minutes - change to CTRLCNTR Balanced

I'd deliberately picked a guy to play CM in my BASE starting lineup that plays well at DMC in anticipation of this change so the move was pretty seamless - if you can field midfielders of quality that can play across DMC/MC/AMC (obviously not one player across all, but a good mixture) then it helps with changing up considerably. The change worked as intended and whilst not as frantic in terms of waves of attack, we're now controlling possession well, happy to ping the ball around and probe away. A few good chances (3 goals is my personal 'comfort zone') go begging before our winger pounces on a rebound to add a well deserved 3rd. The AI never reacts well to going three down in the first - it's how a lot of the super attacking tactics get their huge results, as the opposition tend to try and fight fire with fire and actually open themselves up to more hurt! Goals are nice, however our target is a clean sheet, so in anticipation of a backlash I change down by 1;

FC United Score (3-0): 37 minutes - change to CTRLCNTR Cautious

Game continues on through half time (when I warn my guys not to let their performance levels drop - high mentality players respond well to this), Arsenal starting to have a bit more possession but we're very assured in defence and covering well. My Ass Man notes in the 52nd minute that they've started to play more attacking and this reaps instant reward for us as they leave holes in midfield, one of which is exploited to perfection on a counter attack as we add a 4th. 65 minutes is normally a potential change-up/down checkpoint for me, but the AI has already made two subs and we're looking pretty comfortable so I continue as I am, watching the shot counter closely;

FC United score (4-0): 59 minutes - stay on CTRLCNTR Cautious

We reach 70 minutes still well in control, but I've waited too long before and opened the door (just 1 goal can give the opposition huge momentum), so I take the pro-active approach, change down to CTRL and make 2 substitutions with one eye on forthcoming SUS change

70 minutes - change down to CTRL Cautious

Arsenal are huffing and puffing but can't find a way through, when my guys get possession they're happy to just cycle the ball. We have another good chance but the game is fizzling out nicely.

81 minutes - final sub & change down to SUS Very Defensive

We close the game out without even a sniff from the opposition - a great result, even better performance and another lovely clean sheet!

FT: FC United win! (4-0)

Hope this helps explain a little better; all logic ties back to the 'Masterplan' - the more experienced you get, the better at judging the situation you become (unsurprisingly). You will (inevitably) get it wrong on occasion - I still do - but more often than not we can kill games off very well now (joint best defence in the league stats wise testament to that);

Bournemouth game was a good example of me not changing soon enough - opposition scored in the 73rd minute and then became incredibly difficult to stop them.

[optimusprimal82]

Bit of a weird issue with the SUS and defensive line/LoE brought to my attention so have just changed to a newer version - recommend that anyone using one of the older versions change to 1.8 to be sure, also changed the DC config in CTRL; I prefer the theory in 1.2 but for some reason the 'cover' DC type just doesn't seem to work as I'd like and gets caught out/makes mistakes far too many times.

SUS may still need some further tweaking but it looked ok from the (admittedly limited) testing. Got a couple of friends testing it out too but let me know if any feedback - taking a small FM break but will check in as and when - good luck! 

[enigmatic]

On 07/02/2019 at 15:28, optimusprimal82 said:

SUS is for when you've got enough goals and you'd like to sit on your haul whilst you wait for the final whistle. Be wary of using this before 80-82 minutes as you're inviting a lot of pressure onto you. Be mindful of low mentality players who appear 'anxious' towards the end of the game as they are a penalty/awful backpass waiting to happen. Don't worry too much about the DM's being proper DM's, I regularly play my MC's/AMC's there as you're only usually using SUS for the last 10-15 minutes of a game (SUS can also be useful if you have a player sent off)

 

Jose Mourinho, is that you?

[dom.march]

Hey optimusprimal82, do you have a "get a goal" tactic ?

[optimusprimal82]

@dom.march Not per se, I tend to use my BASE as above to get a goal or two and then defend from there. Obviously that's not always possible so I'd move up and down my sets as the game allows - if i'm dominating I'd maybe continue to use BASE on a higher mentality, but remember risk vs reward? I rarely use 'attacking' away from home in the second half as you're asking for trouble. If i need a goal late game i'll often use the CTRLCNTR above (the 'Steadfast in time one') on 'Very Attacking' from 80 minutes and the shout 'demand more' - I don't need to use it that often but it's been surprisingly effective.

If you're struggling for a goal scoring tactic overall, Knap's got a whole buffet of good ones, I believe his Beowulf 442 Salah P105 is the current king and you can find it here - it should be (at the time of writing) the first tactic in the first post - good luck!

[priority76]

On 16/02/2019 at 11:30, optimusprimal82 said:

If you're struggling for a goal scoring tactic overall, Knap's got a whole buffet of good ones

I'm certainly struggling for a goal scoring tactic.

Two goals in four games, we'll never win promotion at this rate.  I've even got one 'great' striker but having seen him play he couldn't hit the broad side of a cow's arse.  If you can remember far back enough, when you were in the low low leagues what roles you played your forwards in?  My main problem this season has been very poor chance conversion.......oh, and conceding too many goals, that too.

[optimusprimal82]

1 hour ago, priority76 said:

I'm certainly struggling for a goal scoring tactic.

Two goals in four games, we'll never win promotion at this rate.  I've even got one 'great' striker but having seen him play he couldn't hit the broad side of a cow's arse.  If you can remember far back enough, when you were in the low low leagues what roles you played your forwards in?  My main problem this season has been very poor chance conversion.......oh, and conceding too many goals, that too.

Ouch, that really is some toothless attacking!

I was mostly using tweaked version of Knaps TIME 4411/442 and found the 'pressing forward' to be the star of the show in the lower leagues - the ME has changed a bit since then though so it may not be quite as effective now, other thing to bear in mind is will the pressing forward fit with the rest of your tactic?

Totally up to you, but i'd suggest signing up to the beta if you haven't already - the ME is a bit more forgiving and the different striker roles are a bit more valid again, I was messing around with a DLF/AF combo earlier which i haven't been able to get up and running on 19 at all until now!

In terms of full tactic recommendations, I know you like to tweak and make them your own (like me!), but near the top of the tactic download forum, Mr U Rosler has just released a new 442 tactic that he's tested almost exclusively in the lower leagues. His previous effort, the 4141 Steadfast v2 is an amazing creation, just didn't quite score enough for me as a main/BASE, but it's the core fundamentals of my CTRL/CTRLCNTR setup (along with a sprinkling of Knaps/my own stuff) so if it's anything like that it'll be tactically sound - might be worth having a bash with that as a starting point and learning from it, or at least comparing it to what you're using now?

Late here now so rushing this, but obviously if you need more assistance then shout up!

PS: Took me 3 seasons to win the EPL with FC United so not quite the back to back effort you suggested/I hoped for - finished 7th & 2nd before sneaking it in the last few weeks of the 3rd season!  

[priority76]

23 hours ago, optimusprimal82 said:

Totally up to you, but i'd suggest signing up to the beta if you haven't already

I may well do that actually though I'm always a bit wary of updating to the latest patch too quickly because more often that not it makes my current tactic less effective.  I've eight games left of the season and seven points clear (fortunately the teams below me are equally inconsistent) so will definitely try the new patch after that.  It's good to hear it's made the match engine 'more forgiving' to be honest I've found 19.2 a bit of a frustration fest.  I was a bit miffed at 19.1 feeling like it lacked a challenge so hopefully they've managed to get the 'difficulty' bang on for 19.3. 

Interesting my so called 'great' striker got injured and we scored four in the next match, his replacement getting two of them.  Weird game, but don't we love its quirks?

On 17/02/2019 at 15:08, optimusprimal82 said:

Took me 3 seasons to win the EPL with FC United

That's still damn impressive.  Are you going for the champions league now?  How close have you got so far?  

[priority76]

Uh finally.  Those last six seasons have been such a slog.

Well, many thanks for your version of TIME 442 (with a few tweaks of my own ).  I'm off to update to patch 19.3 which will surely ruin this tactic, but hopefully make the game a bit more fun.

[optimusprimal82]

Omg - that's awesome! Bet you're so relieved!? Onwards and upwards now - my advice is don't be loyal to anyone!! I joke - a little - but i was ruthless in clearing out players i didn't think could hack it at the next level! No time for sentiment, especially when i know they'll abandon me at the first sign of interest from a team above!  How many of the guys I had a brief dalliance with are still there?

Don't let me mislead you into thinking 19.3 is life-changingly different - there are definitely some changes to attacking play but they're not wholesale; the big difference for me is that after going a goal or two up, every team doesn't suddenly channel their inner brazil and lay waste to your goal to mount the most bizarre and unlikely comebacks! You still have to manage the game as I've been waxing lyrical about for the longest time, but if winning 3-0 at home against Cardiff i'm not going ultra defensive at 65 minutes fearing their 2 star rated young striker! Fwiw, I reckon they may still tweak it a little before final release as quite a few are unhappy with the attacking still (judging by the beta thread in GD).

Those quirks you mention have sadly just cost me the EPL and possibly/probably not the CL this season - I'll try and keep a long story short; It's hard to get the quality into my team to match the top sides due to brexit (meaning good english talent is few and far between and hyper expensive), my training facilities being rubbish and taking forever to improve (thus my high potential players improve much slower than i'd like!) and my wage bill being so comparatively small. Brexit means i've signed some (supposedly if you trust my scouts) incredibly high PA players from abroad that would never have gotten permits before, but the 17 foreign player limit cripples me a little at the same time - i've got a few English guys but whilst they're decent, they're just not good enough to go toe to toe with the Citys and Uniteds of the world. I have got a great first 11 (still not as good as United, but more on that in a sec), but my wage bill and FFP being so restrictive due to my relatively low income, it means outside the first 11 we have a real drop off in quality;

Things were going great, we were on an amazing run of form, top of the table, only lost once all season (to United)  and unbeaten in forever, even knocking Real Madrid out of the CL;

 (how far we've come - wage budget was only 16 million for the entire year in our first season!)

Sadly what happened next is a bit of a car crash and reminiscent of Arsenal in Wengers latter years; six (yep, six!) players came to me at the same time after a game, all demanding new contracts - due to FFP projections i couldn't afford to give anyone a bump (although i've since learned you only get a fine for exceeding wage projections, and as it turns out additional prize money meant we didn't fail anyway! ) so I had to tell them all we 'couldn't afford' or 'wait until the end of the season' - naturally a couple of guys were ok with this, the other four though basically downed tools and their morale dropped through the floor.

I hadn't realised at the time, but all the while we were on a great run, so too were Man United... With our morale having taken a big hit and fixture pileup due to the FA Cup, CL & Prem, the rest was inevitable; we dropped points in the league immediately, being held by a terrible Burnley team before being beaten late game by United, three of my four wingers then got injured (both my first choice and first backup) along with my main striker and so we crashed out of the FA cup, CL to a Dortmund team there for the taking and we had another league loss to a Spurs side who we hadn't lost to in forever but we couldn't lay a glove on until late game. I gambled and gave the asshats new contracts which restored morale and let us steady the ship, but by that point the damage was done, and despite beating both Arsenal and Chelsea away, we couldn't close the gap on United who were beating everyone - including City and Liverpool - by 4-5 goals. They (United) only dropped 4 points across their final 22 league games which was insane form for the AI, it meant in the end we finished 2nd only on goal difference which is endlessly frustrating but totally football!

Still not bad for a side predicted to finish 7th, but the final kicker from the board has left something of a bitter taste;

Tbh, I normally get bored of FM in later seasons as the AI usually struggles to build anything like a decent squad - safe to say the current United squad is insanely good and looks more like a human created effort - the newgens they've got are off the charts - and unsurprisingly they won the champions league as well as the Prem. Their team is still relatively young which means they'll be around for a while yet, unless PSG come a calling!

Got to be honest and admit that - United's challenge aside - I find myself tiring of this save a little... I'd love to win the PL again and take out the champions league but the brexit thing is making it far less fun than it should be and someone suggested to me again about doing an academy challenge which is far more exciting than another slog through the premier league - taking all my willpower not to hit new career, just the slight hint of unfinished business and more importantly the wondering whether to wait until the new patch is properly released 

Man Uniteds run;

Their insane two strikers;

 

EDIT: Man City going for a winger I've been scouting for aaaaages have forced my hand, expensive at 78 million but we can (finally) afford it, imagine how quickly I came crashing back to earth when I was faced with this - he must have just sacked his agent as my scouts warned his agent would demand a high fee;

Half a million. A week. Sure, why not...? Ooooh, that's right, because my wage budget is only 2 million p/w total you greedy little f***! >sigh< Would be an amazing signing but looks like I've got to work out how to stop him instead!

 

[optimusprimal82]

@priority76  maybe hold off a day or so with the beta - it's been tweaked again today and whilst far from terrible, something feels a bit off? Changes are only subtle and shouldn't have made much of a difference but whilst I quite easily thrashed Chelsea (5-1), all of a sudden the bottom teams are defending like 90's Milan and attacking like 70's Brazil. Sure I just need to adjust but thought i'd throw the warning out after suggesting everything's good! I'll give it a quick go again tomorrow, otherwise might take a break again for a bit whilst they adjust it some more!

[priority76]

@optimusprimal82  Oh no, too late mate I've only gone and done it.  I've got to work for the next three days so won't be able to get much game time in anyway, plus I've got pre-season rebuilding for the mighty Vanarama North to get through.  So hopefully by the time all that's taken care of they'll have created the perfect match engine.  Here's hoping.

[optimusprimal82]

@priority76  sorry dude, i've given you a bit of a bum steer with this - seems that the first beta patch was good, but tweaks since then have turned it into something of a defence-fest. It's not broken and still perfectly playable but it's having a big effect in-game & on results/statistics - current league table (this is my first full season in 19.3);

• Man United have only conceded 11 goals in 24 games, 5 of which were against me so effectively just 6 in 22 games - they have an amazing team, sure, but not that amazing!
• City - taking our result out of the equation - have conceded just 16 in 24!
• My team - unbeaten after 25 games (which is unheard of for any of my teams, let alone one that is still a little inferior to the top teams) & only conceded 16, 4 of which came in a game I was testing a ridiculous 'gung-ho' tactic; AI just cannot score past my CTRL/SUS otherwise so i can take the lead and switch down with little-no risk (except free kicks obviously which are still the bane of my FM life)
• Ignore me and City (who have an obscene forward line), the top scorers in the division are Spurs then United with 48 and 47 goals respectively after 24 games. Actually trend that up and it's not too far away from totals in other season, big issue is so many of the goals are coming from set pieces or mistakes rather than proper attacking play and it's clear there are some issues that need addressing.

Weirdly, the first beta patch showed some great signs of improvement, with forward movement being much better compared to 19.2.3. Was it perfect? No, but it's definitely gone backwards since then.

Dribbling also seems to have been nerfed - on the fence about this; i felt that dribbling was a bit too effective in 19.2.3 and I've seen 18+ dribblers (of which there are many newgens) run through my/the AI's entire backline - Liverpool's entire forward line all have/had 17+ dribbling/pace/etc which made them almost impossible to play as a result. In some ways I think it probably warranted a slight nerf, however my superstar dribbling left winger - along with pretty much anyone else who tries it - seem to lose the ball far more than they probably should when they attempt it, so much so i've turned down dribbling as much as i can in my tactics (an issue which is difficult as most of the desirable forward roles have 'dribble more' locked on by default).

The flip side to all this is as the matches are largely pretty dull you can make your own fun - I built an absolutely ridiculous tactic set yesterday to combat the AI's insanely defensive bus approach;

It essentially overloads down one side of the pitch (in this version the left, but i've got a mirror to cover injuries/fitness or if i know the opposition are strong on one side) so the defenders are all pulled out of line to cover, FINALLY making space for the forwards/players on the opposite flank. That bizarrely positioned LWB is the magic man who makes it all happen, he just pops up on the left in acres with a free run to the byline etc! Naturally his crosses get blocked far too often as he waits for the defender to recover before playing the ball, but as the defenders scramble to get to him, a lovely gap tends to emerge between the two DC's which on the times they don't block the cross/the LWB plays it back to the midfield, can be exploited by the STC/a through ball into the space. Stupid and unrealistic? Sure, but with goals at a premium we have to make our own fun right? Sadly it's absolutely hopeless against a 442 (as there are two players in proximity for marking etc), and the big teams have all suddenly started using a 442 with 2 x DM's against me instead of their previously preferred 4231 - but that's a job for another day (and because they're not quite as defensive my 4321 still rips them a new one!)!  

 

That's enough from me in any case - hopefully you've got a save from just before you updated (as you can roll back from the beta?) otherwise I guess you can plod on/wait for the next update (I'm convinced they'll tweak it further), as i say, it's still perfectly playable, just be wary of the potential for frustration... 

[whizzkid]

@optimusprimal82 are you uploading your latest tactic above, thanks

[optimusprimal82]

3 hours ago, whizzkid said:

@optimusprimal82 are you uploading your latest tactic above, thanks

Sorry, no real plans to release that as yet - it was a bit of a mess around/play whilst testing in the beta. It works pretty well, but only in very specific circumstances.

If you're playing 19.2.3 (or earlier) my original BASE above is still pretty good, even at dealing with the bus but admittedly in the current beta it's a bit more unreliable - once the beta becomes a bit more stable i'll work on updating them and reissuing, as it is right now though it's not really worth the time as the ME may change at a moments notice!

If you're looking for a beta (19.3) tactic, Knap released a version of his 442/424 for it yesterday that I know work well for sure (I was helping to test), you can find them here (442) or here (424)

[optimusprimal82]

Quite fitting, as the curtain closes on the end of my tenth season in charge at FC United, we've managed to sweep the board competition wise and ultimately achieve what I set out to do at the start of this save;

The league and two domestic cups were pretty comfortable in the end but a non-performance in the CL final - saved only by what I suspect is my squads high determination - almost cost us, going to extra time and penalties! Given my record in 19 at penalty shootouts (I don't know the stats but I can remember winning 1/many) I wasn't optimistic and wasn't sure whether to even watch but I owed my little digital guys that I guess and they duly delivered (and surprised the plop out of me!)! Sadly, the unbeaten season - which admittedly I don't usually care all that much about but took an interest at 32 games unbeaten - was shattered by a 35 yard screamer from Marco Asenio who - now playing for Liverpool - at least has the stats to back it up as opposed to the usual 4/20 guys scoring worldies past us!

Financially we may still not be competing on a completely level field with City & United, but I've got an almost constant 100m+ transfer budget which I can't sneeze at, sadly FFP restrictions on wage increases and FM19's/my players constant demands for salary increases limit my flexibility a fair bit as we're always at our wage limit.

I have - as a one off - broken my own (break even) xfer rules and agreed the future transfer of this guy;

Did it mainly just to see if I can and also in frustration at missing out an an MC i've tried to sign twice when he's moved and has turned me down both times (first time for Chelsea, second for United).  I actually think the guy i'm getting is better (so do the scouts) but never thought i'd get him from Madrid - he'will be the first '100 rated' player i've ever signed and smashes our previous xfer record, although as I got Madrid to accept ridiculous instalments we're effectively only paying 32.5 million a year (for three years) so still shy of the 100m other teams seem to throw around like confetti!

EDIT: Since writing this Spurs came in with a 90m bid for my left winger - he's a great player and I don't like the idea of playing against him, but I've never been completely convinced by him and believed his understudy would surpass him this coming season anyway - that coupled with the fact he wanted an increase from 80kp/w to 210k means I'm pretty chuffed - effectively paid 8million for an absolute beast of an MC!  

I'm unsure exactly what comes next now, I tend to get quite bored having won the CL and find a new challenge is often required - an academy challenge is something that excites me, and having never brought though a youth player at FC United (and it being my preferred way to play) there's an itch there that needs satisfying; ironically, having spent 5 years getting our youth facilities to anything like an acceptable standard we have finally had the first player come in from our intake who may have the ability to make it, so there's a consideration there to maybe keep playing and rebuild this team as it ages with academy only players and see if we can compete (remember our youth pool is shared directly with City & United!).

Another option I've considered is waiting for Salford to sack their manager and then set about - if they'd hire me - bringing them up to the Premier League for something of a Manchester love-in, maybe I can go one further then and bring Oldham, Stockport, Bolton & a few other North-West neighbours up too! Regardless of what I choose (and with a new patch on the horizon I may go down the clean save route) I think a small FM break is in order - if anyone needs any help with any of this I'll check back from time to time so apologies for any delay, I'm definitely not ignoring you (and if they update the patch/beta soon then who knows, i'll likely be here anyway!).

All results from this season were mainly achieved using the sets you see above - a few tweaks here and there for the 19.3.0 engine and a few experiments/tests in other games, but I won't post them yet as they're not 100% bulletproof and likely obsolete in the near future!

Good luck all! 

[optimusprimal82]

Hey all! Thanks for your patience - sorry that I've not updated this in a while, I've been spending far, far too long looking at dodgy wingers rather than playing the game but time to put that right and get back into the managerial groove!

The good news is that for the most part, the 'masterplan' still holds up, the only observation is slightly different aggression levels from the AI, not every team goes quite as gung-ho if losing a match now, and there are a few more that try to 'shock you out of the gate' by attacking to take an early lead so be mindful of both of those and you should be good!

I've re-badged/versioned all of my four supplied sets for 19.3 as there are subtle changes (to some more than others). The BASE is now (after some tweaking) actually more effective than the previous engines version and is actually viable as an 'attacking plug & play' but be warned that unless you've got the very very best of players you'll likely lose a few too (if you do simply want to plug & play, be sure to check out Knap's offerings, or even others made by fine FM folk such as Mr U Rosler, TFF, Clashthunder & any others I might have forgotten!)! Rest assured you don't have to use any of my tactics provided here in order to follow this methodology, you can use anything you feel comfortable attacking with and then create your own CTRL/SUS from there - check the datasheets in the first post if this is something you feel like trying out!

One thing to bear in mind when playing with a high level team is that sooner or later you're going to come up against a side that brings not just one bus, but a whole armada of double deckers. Yes it's safe to say that defensive play in 19 is almost king, and whilst for the majority of games you should be able to find a way around stubborn defences, every now and then you may need something a little different; a lot of people will attack said bus with their default tactic, often utilising high pressing, high defensive lines & high tempos, with players set to 'pass into space' & 'take more risks'... If you're playing against a side camped inside their own penalty box, a lot of these are going to be counter intuitive and actually cause you to force the opposition back even more, penning them in and restricting what little space there already was. There are a few ways around the problem, unfortunately none of them are guarantees, and in said matches you'll have to keep a strong watch over statistics and consider upping the frequency of your match highlights to maybe see where your guys are going wrong - some suggestions from me that may help;

• Consider dropping mentality a little - teams camping will likely be aiming to hit you on the counter for a 'smash & grab'. Go too gung-ho and you may well play into their hands. Don't go so conservative as you're never a threat, but dropping back a little can help draw the opposition out and grant you that all too precious commodity of space!
• Consider dropping your defensive line/LOE a little deeper; give the opposition a bit more room to play and your attackers should then be able to start finding more space between their lines
• Consider turning off 'pass into space' seeing as there likely isn't all that much of it to exploit!
• Likewise, consider who has 'take more risks' enabled. If no-one takes any risks then you may never get a goal, but if everyone is trying to play a killer ball you may see 20 moves break down at the BWM who's attempting to thread a needle with a passing stat of 11 and vision of 12
• Change/turn on playing 'focus' - use the wings more etc
• Consider changing width - if you're playing very narrow, maybe go wider but be wary of the knock-on; passing distances may be bigger so having a midfield set to 'short passing' could be an issue?
• Consider turning off 'counter-pressing' and using 'regroup' - counter-pressing can be awesomely effective as demonstrated by the fact that everybody seems to be using it in FM19. What a lot of people aren't correlating though is the high number of free kicks you concede with a high CP turned on; if the opposition is time wasting for every free kick then do the math if you concede 20 free kicks every game! I actually don't seem to concede many free kicks in the later versions of 19 now, but it does still stand to reason that the more free kicks you give the opposition, the more they're likely to score? Regroup is terribly underrated imo and is a staple of my more defensive variants but I've also been having great success using it against ultra defensive teams; as they tend to counter, rather than chasing them down when they win possession and leaving holes in your defensive shape, regroup gets your men back behind the ball ready to win possession back. AS the game wears on this only makes more sense as players get tired and the pressing becomes less effective in general.
• If playing as a lower quality team, be mindful of 'run at defence' - defenders seem incredibly efficient in the tackle and it can be infuriating playing against a better side and seeing your team work hard to gain possession only for a player to run straight into a defender and gift possession straight back

Another couple of counter-pressing hints;

• Make sure you're buying/fielding players with high work rate - pressing is only as good as the weakest link so if someone isn't pulling their weight then they're potentially open for exploitation. Remember that even someone with 20 for work rate can still get tired and even though the spirit may still be strong their legs could be weak - no pressing is better than bad pressing (consider regroup!)
• If you're counter-pressing against a really good side (Barcelona/Real Madrid/PSG/Man City etc) then make sure your guys have at least the physical attributes to back it up along with teamwork and work rate; highly technical sides are more than capable of beating a poorly implemented press and if they do, they'll be attacking with 1-2 (maybe more) of your guys out of position!

Ok, that's enough words from me - have fun everyone, tactic links are up in the first post (or will be about 60 seconds after this post lands!)  

EDIT: Just realised that some pictures of the new BASE in action might be nice?

Rashford played as STC (50 goals!), with Mata (41 goals!) & Lingard at AMC & Martial/Sanchez playing ML/MR respectively.

 

[optimusprimal82]

Hey all!

A few people have mentioned to me that they're not having as much success with the new version of the BASE for 19.3 - sad to hear but it's not altogether surprising given the changes to the ME and the fact it was developed specifically for my FC United team. It did/does work well with the default Liverpool/Man United teams so it should be good at most top sides, just remember though that if you're using it for the whole game you are very likely to struggle - as mentioned in the very first post, it's not intended as a pure plug n play - i tend to use it for maybe 50-55 minutes per game (enough to get a lead) before changing down. For tough away games I tend to go with the CTRLCNTR as a default unless I'm super confident too.

If the BASE here doesn't work/fit your team though then it's no issue - ANY tactic will work as BASE, whether it's from Knap, TFF, MR Rosler or whoever, this thread is less about the downloads and ore about the in-game changes you can make using your current tactics to ensure maximum output and to prevent dirty AI comebacks!

I've actually moved on from the FC United save I used to develop this all out, but whilst I'm not using these tactics currently, I am still employing all the of the CTRLCNTR/CTRL/SUS/Masterplan methodologies to great success down in the footballing basement I find myself (you can read more about it here if you're so inclined) so there's no reason the approach shouldn't work anywhere/any league! Remember that if you're still struggling with some of the fundamentals (player personalities is a big one that a lot of new players miss!) then you can find even more info in the Mentality Masterplan main thread!

Good luck!  

 

[priority76]

@optimusprimal82   Hey, after taking a wee break from FM I'm getting right back into it.  I must say I'm loving patch 19.3 and loving using your methodology.  Using a control tactic and a park the bus tactic actually seem to work in this patch whereas before it was sometimes just like inviting a goal.  Halfway through my first season in the might Vanarama national north and while I think winning the league is a bit out of reach I'm feeling confident about making the playoffs which is way better than I was expecting at this stage.  Using Mr Rosler's tactic with a few tweaky tweaks.

[priority76]

@optimusprimal82 Uh I guess not, I would have taken a top half finish at the start of the season, but being in the playoffs all season then to go on such a bad bad run of form at the end I just don't understand it at all.  I really thought 19.3 had made the game a more enjoyable experience but instead it is the same old frustrating experience.

The two win games I had to save and reload out of frustration so effectively an eight game loosing streak how it that even possible?

Time for another break from FM.  Roll on FM 20 when I sincerely hope they iron out this 'bug' of me not being able to win a game.