Why does Centre Back on Cover role need Acceleration but Defensive Centre Back on Cover role does not?

[Sheep]

Hi,

It has always perplexed me why one would need acceleration and the other wouldn't.

Defensive CB on Cover:

CB on Cover:

Does anyone have any theories as to why?

Thanks.

[Golaxi]

because the defensive one sits so deep and doesnt venture as forward or forwarded minded as much as a more forward minded cb. Also less likely to be caught straight out of position while playing a wayward over ambitious pass. 

[Atarin]

6 hours ago, Golaxi said:

because the defensive one sits so deep and doesnt venture as forward or forwarded minded as much as a more forward minded cb. Also less likely to be caught straight out of position while playing a wayward over ambitious pass. 

Don't know if that bit is true. DCB's tend to lump it and are more likely to give it away. CBs give it short/simple and are less likely to give it away.

[thomit]

Good accelleration(and pace) is nice to have for any role. You decide whether it's important or not. Use common sense.

[kingjericho]

7 hours ago, thomit said:

Good accelleration(and pace) is nice to have for any role. You decide whether it's important or not. Use common sense.

That's a given, but for a newbie who's playing the game for the first time this information leads to thinking that a DCB doesn't need speed for the same duty as a regular CB. So I'd say this is a flaw in the tactics screen, because the only thing that changes from a DCB to a CB are instructions with ball.

[Sheep]

8 hours ago, kingjericho said:

That's a given, but for a newbie who's playing the game for the first time this information leads to thinking that a DCB doesn't need speed for the same duty as a regular CB. So I'd say this is a flaw in the tactics screen, because the only thing that changes from a DCB to a CB are instructions with ball.

My thought was with cover they just sit a little deeper. My player is very slow so I thought making him sit deeper would allow him that extra bit of distance head start when the opposition counter. My other defenders are fast so I have no issue with them pushing a little further ahead. Am I correct in thinking this or do I have the cover role wrong?

[zlatanera]

 

7 hours ago, Sheep said:

My thought was with cover they just sit a little deeper. My player is very slow so I thought making him sit deeper would allow him that extra bit of distance head start when the opposition counter. My other defenders are fast so I have no issue with them pushing a little further ahead. Am I correct in thinking this or do I have the cover role wrong?

The interpretation I've seen is that if you have one defender on cover, he'll be the one leading the offside trap i.e. stepping up at the right moment, which will require acceleration. The description of the role also suggests he will literally "cover" for someone else being caught out of position again, needing defensive speed. For example I remember seeing a really odd tactic on FM15 with 3 centre backs, 3 defensive midfielders, attacking midfielders wide left, centre and centre-right and a striker. One of the outside central defenders was on a cover duty, I believe the right-sided one, to cover for the lack of width. It worked quite well with good players. I don't think he'd be dropping deeper though - he should be maintaining the defensive line, although if his partner was a stopper who is constantly stepping up it might give the illusion of him dropping deeper. 

[anorthernboy]

Many moons ago I used a tactic with this backline:

 

Wb/a  CB/c    CB/d   FB/s

 

I used the covering CB to give me more cover to the rampaging LB. I used a flat 3 midfield so I did t have cover from the DM strata. The opposition would ping balls down my right side as the LB would be up field. The CB/c sat a little deeper than his partner CB which gave him more time to react to the ball over the top. I always made sure he had good pace because he would be covering more ground, naturally.

[kingjericho]

10 hours ago, Sheep said:

My thought was with cover they just sit a little deeper. My player is very slow so I thought making him sit deeper would allow him that extra bit of distance head start when the opposition counter. My other defenders are fast so I have no issue with them pushing a little further ahead. Am I correct in thinking this or do I have the cover role wrong?

My understanding is that the cover CB needs pace to cover the area left behinf by the stopped, when he got out of position to intercept a ball further up the pitch.

2 hours ago, zlatanera said:

 

The interpretation I've seen is that if you have one defender on cover, he'll be the one leading the offside trap i.e. stepping up at the right moment, which will require acceleration. The description of the role also suggests he will literally "cover" for someone else being caught out of position again, needing defensive speed. For example I remember seeing a really odd tactic on FM15 with 3 centre backs, 3 defensive midfielders, attacking midfielders wide left, centre and centre-right and a striker. One of the outside central defenders was on a cover duty, I believe the right-sided one, to cover for the lack of width. It worked quite well with good players. I don't think he'd be dropping deeper though - he should be maintaining the defensive line, although if his partner was a stopper who is constantly stepping up it might give the illusion of him dropping deeper. 

In my understanding if you want to employ the offside trap it's better to do it with CD/D insteav of a stopper(cover combination, as the line is more straight, instead of having one of the CBs a bit behind the line.

[zlatanera]

1 hour ago, kingjericho said:

My understanding is that the cover CB needs pace to cover the area left behinf by the stopped, when he got out of position to intercept a ball further up the pitch.

In my understanding if you want to employ the offside trap it's better to do it with CD/D insteav of a stopper(cover combination, as the line is more straight, instead of having one of the CBs a bit behind the line.

You may well be right. I just remember reading someone on one of the club threads - might have been AC Milan - saying they changed from defend to cover in order to have a guy leading the trap. Doesn't mean its accurate but it has been serving me well. Then again I only play the offside trap with outstanding defenders - i.e. Victor Lindelof performing outstandingly for United right now so it may well be that its just my players are that good they're masking my more minor flaws right now. 

As for pace versus acceleration - Unless you're leaving your centre-backs back off of a corner I think the distances are short enough that acceleration is more important. 

[kingjericho]

7 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

You may well be right. I just remember reading someone on one of the club threads - might have been AC Milan - saying they changed from defend to cover in order to have a guy leading the trap. Doesn't mean its accurate but it has been serving me well. Then again I only play the offside trap with outstanding defenders - i.e. Victor Lindelof performing outstandingly for United right now so it may well be that its just my players are that good they're masking my more minor flaws right now. 

As for pace versus acceleration - Unless you're leaving your centre-backs back off of a corner I think the distances are short enough that acceleration is more important. 

To me it just makes more sense that if you want to play the offside trap, you do it with a strict defensive line, otherwise it's a lot harder for the defenders to communicate if all of them have different closing down responsibilities.

When I said 'pace' I meant speed in general, so yes in this case 'acceleration' is more accurate for what's important in a covering CB.

[Rashidi]

On 2/18/2018 at 18:26, Atarin said:

Don't know if that bit is true. DCB's tend to lump it and are more likely to give it away. CBs give it short/simple and are less likely to give it away.

A bit of an oversimplification, but generally true. 

DCB's can also be potent weapons in a counter attacking system, because they play lose risk direct passes, which essentially is hoofing the ball out either into space or to a specific player. If you create your tactic well enough, you could place the DCB strategically where his clearances become an important weapon in your counter attacking system. There was a point last season where my DCB had more assists than anyone in my team, at least in my book. Team reorganises to defend, ball works its way to DCB, he kicks it forward, lands in space for the DLF who plays a through pass to the poacher who scores. I had a lot of goals happening like this with Kingstonian. The reason why a CD has acceleration and why a DCB doesn't simply refers to their relative positioning on the pitch, however, here we need to understand key attributes as opposed to attributes listed in the list provided when you check the roles impact on training. 

Personally acceleration should only really be important for any covering defender when you are playing a system that has the team sitting up, in that case the covering defender absolutely needs acceleration and I would have both the CD and DCB with it.  As a rule, if you are playing any kind of mentality that his > than standard, and you have a normal defensive line, then all defenders need acceleration.

[Sheep]

5 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Personally acceleration should only really be important for any covering defender when you are playing a system that has the team sitting up, in that case the covering defender absolutely needs acceleration and I would have both the CD and DCB with it.  As a rule, if you are playing any kind of mentality that his > than standard, and you have a normal defensive line, then all defenders need acceleration.

So in lay-terms for simple folk like myself. Don't worry too much about a defender's acceleration unless you're playing an offside trap or high line?

[zlatanera]

If your mentality is control, attacking or overload and your defensive line is normal, slightly higher or much higher then you need acceleration. If it's standard and the defensive line is slightly higher or much higher, you need it. I think that's a simplification / elaboration of what he said?