Long and mid range shots in the new ME. Let's talk about it.

[herne79]

6 hours ago, ferrarinseb said:

Could be the mentality ladder is root cause

Unlikely.  If you check back through the thread you'll find my post where I use the Attacking mentality + plenty of attack duties and have at least two thirds of my shots from inside the box.

[ferrarinseb]

Just now, herne79 said:

Unlikely.  If you check back through the thread you'll find my post where I use the Attacking mentality + plenty of attack duties and have at least two thirds of my shots from inside the box.

I agree and i do have most of my goals from inside penalty box that's not the point im making here. 

If we observe the video's uploaded in the thread and from what i saw in the game in some cases. We get long shots which are mostly not even required but players try them time and time again. Some times you feel they have much better options but still they go for the Long shot hence why i felt mentality ladder might be causing them to Force that shot instead of trying another option

[herne79]

1 minute ago, ferrarinseb said:

I agree and i do have most of my goals from inside penalty box that's not the point im making here. 

If we observe the video's uploaded in the thread and from what i saw in the game in some cases. We get long shots which are mostly not even required but players try them time and time again. Some times you feel they have much better options but still they go for the Long shot hence why i felt mentality ladder might be causing them to Force that shot instead of trying another option

Ahh ok .  Possibly a cause yes however you could also look at it from the other end - use a low mentality that encourages slow build up play, by which time the opposition defence is well organised leaving no space to play in, resulting in taking a long shot.

It won't always be the case of course, especially if you have players with good creativity, off the ball movement, variety in attack and so on.  So mentality used may be a cause although lots of other factors to consider as well.

[ferrarinseb]

58 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Ahh ok .  Possibly a cause yes however you could also look at it from the other end - use a low mentality that encourages slow build up play, by which time the opposition defence is well organised leaving no space to play in, resulting in taking a long shot.

It won't always be the case of course, especially if you have players with good creativity, off the ball movement, variety in attack and so on.  So mentality used may be a cause although lots of other factors to consider as well.

I agree, it works both ways. But as you put given the quality of Barcelona / Madrid / City / Juventus/ PSG (teams i tested ) wouldn't even have that sort of Shot attempts, which is why i felt it could be the mentality ladder might be forcing them to have that shot instead of assessing options. 

 

 

[Svenc]

This is off-topic: But re that mentality ladder graphics. THere shouldn't be further links encouraged to any "under the hood" mechanics in any future release. Newcomers won't make any sense of it either way. It's seen numerous reworks in the past. And as such, some official feedback can also be misleading. As an example: On some older releases you would have had totally disjointed play and a team disconnected from one another if you had given them mentalities as encouraged in the individual player instruction screen feedback. Putting Defenders on super low mentality vs attackers on super high  (as the very structured shape implies now) was akin to telling the defenders: "We just don't want to get crushed". Vice versa telling the attackers "Go smash em". There would be little strategic cohesion. Like prior to kick-off separating the team, and locking the defenders in one room and the attackers in another. Often problematic, no less as the defenders would rarely play a release pass, and the attackers would just smash ahead. Obviously seen reworks. The entire thing has no place in any current builds anyway, no less as there is no immediate access to anything much anymore.

That "mentality ladder" dates back to something written by I think THOG for a much older release. It's also been a subjective interpretation. Trying to translate it all into something football based. That's SI's job. The above feedback is the damage. This is the equivalent of the perception that "randomly jiggling a mentality slider" on old releases would suddenly lead to fantastic football / intelligent decisions and vice versa all over. It never did. Neither did it ever itself lead to terrible or horrible finishing, or any of such things. All of this takes thinking/approaching things from a holistic perspective. Which is, providing players with options, as far as possible either way. It's about time all that bad theory about it all would be put to bed anyway. LIke, that was the entire point of taking it out, wasn't  it.

[jujigatame]

Shooting accuracy needs to be addressed.  Last night I saw Andre Silva, about 1 yard inside the box, take a shot that went PARALLEL to the goal line.  I'd have thought it was an errant pass or cross if the commentary (and stats screen) didn't indicate otherwise.

[Sourav B]

On 09/01/2018 at 02:41, rdbayly said:

I'm a patron and avid reader / viewer of your content Rashidi - I have managed to improve almost all aspects of my tactical approach and results, with the exception of players taking unnecessary long shots. The repeat offenders are inside forwards who pick the ball up in deep wide positions, cut inside as instructed, beat a few players then shoot wide with the power of a backpass. 

With the chaos they are causing, the team would be better served if he simply held it up, looked for the overlapping wingback utilising the space he has vacated, or just lay it off to a playmaker. In my experience this just doesn't happen.

I've experimented with different players / lower mentalities / shape / tempo. It's made no difference.

Decisions take a huge role in btw these long shots specially with wrong footed if. I use 3 forwards with 2 ifs n 1 f9, although f9 is my top goalscorer, bdw lets come to the point, those 2 ifs, I use 2 same footed ifs with f9 being stronger in the opposite foot of those players. Lets take example, see some of my pics here n see the numbers nd stats, Angel Diaz(LF), Alvaro Campos(RF) and Angel Collado(LF) Now Diaz is IF with same foot as he plays in AML position n Collado is oppos footed as he playes in AMR position, like an standard if, n f9 Campos he is the top goalscorer of all time for Real Madrid he is right footed n look at the goal numbers, but this will not happed if u dont have right kind of players,

• AML - Angel Diaz - This guy is a giant he is a beast n does not deserve to be wasted to be a standard if who take many unnecessary long shots n waste the possesion so i decided to use him as a left if cz he has 15 decisions but 16 composure n he does not have that much of finishing too (only 12), but hwo does he  score sooo many goals, well cz he has 18 techn, 17 acc, 18 pac with 'places shots' trait, plus he has 17 drib with 18 crossing n as i use very narrow systems he does not normally cut fully inside but cut diagonally closer to the goal n then shoots from very close range n as he has 18 tech he has the accuracy in placing his shots n if he cuts a little further away from goal he crosses for those other forwards of mids whoever are in the box, thats y he ended up with 8.32 rating in 57 matches cz he scores n also he provides soo many assists,
• AMR - Angel Collado - This guy is not as strong as Diaz nor the as fast as him but he has some low-hanging balls when it comes to shooting(18 fin) n techn(18) as well, n he is so special bcz he has 18 composure with 17 decisions its not the greatest combination but it does the job well as he does take long shots but way lesser than Gareth playing in AMR IF position! N some of the shots goes into the straight into the top corner of the net too, so having proper attribute is soo much important decisions n composure a big part. N why does he score so many well take a look at who provide most key passes. N yeah 'places shots' is must for ifs with good techniq n composure, so i had him learned this one too.
• ST - Alvaro Campos - 17 finishing is not that special with 15 techn is not that special but why he is the top goalscorer well there r many reasons,

1.  Assist from Diaz, a lot of assists,
2. Collado not shooting from distance,
3. his finishing excellence with 'shoots with power' trait as he has low techn n also i think every striker should have this trait as it gives so much shooting power to an even player with poor long shots(14 for him).

N also he has produced 113 key passes n as he is right footed he can remove the deficit of not having right winger, he provides assists for both Collado n Diaz, with crooses as well as through balls.

Also I use 2 CWB to provide assists from the back which helps a lot n also 3 very good midfielders with proper trait combinations with proper stats, which allows much more fluidity than just shoot unnecessarily.

So for both the ifs look for those key attributes i have highlighted n also dont have 2 standard opposite footed ifs, N even if your ifs are having good long shots decisions plays a part to nullify that unnecessary long shots probability with proper traits. 

[rdbayly]

51 minutes ago, Sourav B said:

Decisions take a huge role in btw these long shots specially with wrong footed if. I use 3 forwards with 2 ifs n 1 f9, although f9 is my top goalscorer, bdw lets come to the point, those 2 ifs, I use 2 same footed ifs with f9 being stronger in the opposite foot of those players. Lets take example, see some of my pics here n see the numbers nd stats, Angel Diaz(LF), Alvaro Campos(RF) and Angel Collado(LF) Now Diaz is IF with same foot as he plays in AML position n Collado is oppos footed as he playes in AMR position, like an standard if, n f9 Campos he is the top goalscorer of all time for Real Madrid he is right footed n look at the goal numbers, but this will not happed if u dont have right kind of players,

• AML - Angel Diaz - This guy is a giant he is a beast n does not deserve to be wasted to be a standard if who take many unnecessary long shots n waste the possesion so i decided to use him as a left if cz he has 15 decisions but 16 composure n he does not have that much of finishing too (only 12), but hwo does he  score sooo many goals, well cz he has 18 techn, 17 acc, 18 pac with 'places shots' trait, plus he has 17 drib with 18 crossing n as i use very narrow systems he does not normally cut fully inside but cut diagonally closer to the goal n then shoots from very close range n as he has 18 tech he has the accuracy in placing his shots n if he cuts a little further away from goal he crosses for those other forwards of mids whoever are in the box, thats y he ended up with 8.32 rating in 57 matches cz he scores n also he provides soo many assists,
• AMR - Angel Collado - This guy is not as strong as Diaz nor the as fast as him but he has some low-hanging balls when it comes to shooting(18 fin) n techn(18) as well, n he is so special bcz he has 18 composure with 17 decisions its not the greatest combination but it does the job well as he does take long shots but way lesser than Gareth playing in AMR IF position! N some of the shots goes into the straight into the top corner of the net too, so having proper attribute is soo much important decisions n composure a big part. N why does he score so many well take a look at who provide most key passes. N yeah 'places shots' is must for ifs with good techniq n composure, so i had him learned this one too.
• ST - Alvaro Campos - 17 finishing is not that special with 15 techn is not that special but why he is the top goalscorer well there r many reasons,

1.  Assist from Diaz, a lot of assists,
2. Collado not shooting from distance,
3. his finishing excellence with 'shoots with power' trait as he has low techn n also i think every striker should have this trait as it gives so much shooting power to an even player with poor long shots(14 for him).

N also he has produced 113 key passes n as he is right footed he can remove the deficit of not having right winger, he provides assists for both Collado n Diaz, with crooses as well as through balls.

Also I use 2 CWB to provide assists from the back which helps a lot n also 3 very good midfielders with proper trait combinations with proper stats, which allows much more fluidity than just shoot unnecessarily.

So for both the ifs look for those key attributes i have highlighted n also dont have 2 standard opposite footed ifs, N even if your ifs are having good long shots decisions plays a part to nullify that unnecessary long shots probability with proper traits. 

A couple of observations. Firstly this screenshot is from FM17. This thread is / was discussing the issue with long shot selection and their subsequent accuracy in FM18; which based on user feedback is much bigger headache compared to last year's release.

Secondly, it's 2032 and you are managing Real Madrid. No doubt with an array of world-class regen talent at your disposal, who possess core attributes (including decisions) in abundance. Not surprising that you don't see excessive long shots because a) it was never a big problem on FM17 and b) Real Madrid players will always possess the mental and technical attributes required to unlock stubborn defences  

[Sourav B]

7 hours ago, rdbayly said:

A couple of observations. Firstly this screenshot is from FM17. This thread is / was discussing the issue with long shot selection and their subsequent accuracy in FM18; which based on user feedback is much bigger headache compared to last year's release.

Secondly, it's 2032 and you are managing Real Madrid. No doubt with an array of world-class regen talent at your disposal, who possess core attributes (including decisions) in abundance. Not surprising that you don't see excessive long shots because a) it was never a big problem on FM17 and b) Real Madrid players will always possess the mental and technical attributes required to unlock stubborn defences  

I don't think so they r not that special but having good attribute is important n yes it was a problem bro as far as i was concerned there was so many long shot at the beginning but i guess if u have the same traits n attributes here it will work in fm18 too, although i don't know i just felt lile j need to share it which i did

[Svenc]

7 hours ago, rdbayly said:

A couple of observations. Firstly this screenshot is from FM17. This thread is / was discussing the issue with long shot selection and their subsequent accuracy in FM18; which based on user feedback is much bigger headache compared to last year's release.

Secondly, it's 2032 and you are managing Real Madrid. No doubt with an array of world-class regen talent at your disposal, who possess core attributes (including decisions) in abundance. Not surprising that you don't see excessive long shots because a) it was never a big problem on FM17 and b) Real Madrid players will always possess the mental and technical attributes required to unlock stubborn defences  

Thirdly, this looks to heavily exploit the wide midfielder positioning and channel issue on FM17, which by FM18 is no more. Works wonders on FM17, and as documented annoyed players alike on their own team's defending end. But is not overly relevant to the topic, unfortunately.

[Sourav B]

34 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Thirdly, this looks to heavily exploit the wide midfielder positioning and channel issue on FM17, which by FM18 is no more. Works wonders on FM17, and as documented annoyed players alike on their own team's defending end. But is not overly relevant to the topic, unfortunately.

Yeah I love this tactic tho, But I use my own but yeah they r inspired from those, n also this save is of the 16th year but i am now in 2040s, I save every single save after the last game of the season, I have all of them. I haven't played fm18 but it will be very interesting to test this, but the issue was long shots which i was getting bcz of so many attack duties which are not a concern anymore thats what i was talking, of those so many goals barely 11 or 12 of them from outside, which i was telling..

[rdbayly]

3 hours ago, Svenc said:

Thirdly, this looks to heavily exploit the wide midfielder positioning and channel issue on FM17, which by FM18 is no more. Works wonders on FM17, and as documented annoyed players alike on their own team's defending end. But is not overly relevant to the topic, unfortunately.

Wow, there is certainly some mud-slinging in the thread you linked. Have to agree there is a case for narrow tactics in FM17 being overpowered. I switched to a narrow 4-2-3-1 with Wolves and am now 2nd with the highest possession stats in the Prem. I fear this isn't down to my tactical genius.

[RodentofDoom]

I can only comment on the direct free-kicks aspect of the 'long shot' attempts.

 

I played through 3 seasons with UCD (Eire 1st Division; 2 seasons. Eire Premier Division; 1 season)

Admittedly at this level the players aren't the most skillful, but then neither is the opposition, so it balances out quite nicely.

 

Goals observed being scored from a direct free kick in all competitions

1 (against me )

 

Direct free kicks observed being taken

unknown, but i'd guestimate at 60+ over the full 3 seasons

 

make of it what you will.

 

[Sourav B]

6 hours ago, rdbayly said:

Wow, there is certainly some mud-slinging in the thread you linked. Have to agree there is a case for narrow tactics in FM17 being overpowered. I switched to a narrow 4-2-3-1 with Wolves and am now 2nd with the highest possession stats in the Prem. I fear this isn't down to my tactical genius.

 quite funny, i did not know there is this issue or this thread by the way..