Goalkeeper development

[VibeTribe]

I've been struggling with developing goalkeepers.

I'm using Inter. First I had Handanovic, who's CA remained the same for a couple seasons until he turned 32 and then he started declining even though that should have been his peak. The club was doing well and he was playing well as well.

I replaced him with Perin, who's been here for 2 seasons and has made no improvements in CA even though basically every other player progressed a lot.

I am using balanced training on average intensity while in season. Goalkeepers are set to Goalkeeper training.

[herne79]

When you say you see no improvements in CA, you are using an add on such as the In Game Editor to actually see their CA? If so, how does their CA compare to their PA?

Once PA is reached, CA can't develop any more - and it won't take goalkeepers (or anyone else) until they are age 30+ in order to reach this maximum CA.

If you don't use such an add on, you won't know what their CA is, so there is no point talking in such terms. All you will have to go by are coach reports and training graphs to check on a players' progress. What do these reports say?

Finally, just for a belt and braces check - 1) you have at least one dedicated goalkeeping coach? 2) your players are getting a significant amount of first team game time? 3) you have actually selected Goalkeeper training as an individual training plan and not just left it on "GK - Playing position"?

[VibeTribe]

There was a lot of progress to be made from CA to PA, I won't post because I don't wont to spoil. I am using the editor... Decline of Handanovic is obvious without the editor as well, attributes and performance simply dropped and he was continuously being singled out as the weak link by other managers. He was just 32, had no injuries and played every game. This is not just this particular save, I always play with Inter and he always declines. The stagnation of Perin was obvious as well through attributes, there were no green or red indicators. Although Perin has finally progressed, but it took a mad season where I managed to win both Serie A and Champions League, he progressed by 4 CA points.

I have 2 GK coaches with 4 and a half star rating, training set to Goalkeeper.

[gunnerfan]

When you say you see no improvements in CA, you are using an add on such as the In Game Editor to actually see their CA? If so, how does their CA compare to their PA?

Quick question - is it possible to monitor developing CA using the editor? I thought that only showed the CA in the database that begins a saved game.

[herne79]

Quick question - is it possible to monitor developing CA using the editor? I thought that only showed the CA in the database that begins a saved game.

The In Game Editor will show you that.

[gunnerfan]

The In Game Editor will show you that.

Does that mean you can edit players for a saved game already in progress?

[Ghents]

Does that mean you can edit players for a saved game already in progress?

You absolutely can.

[rninejr]

this is also one of my main concern regarding this game. since it is so rare for a GK to get over 8 rating in a match, they develope quite slower than their advanced teammates who easily get higher rating. I once have a young GK with model professional personality, n highly recommended by all of my coaching staffs (my club has 5 stars training facility, n 4 good GK coaches) but again since my team was playing an effective possession football, we rarely got attacked, resulting on average-below average GK's rating. he could get rating better than 7 only when my team won with a big margin. In the end, my young STC with balanced personality could get over this model professional GK, according to my coaches. At first glance the difference of growth was so clear even though they came from the same generation. Also, my Gk generated with 10 vision which is quite good for a sweeper keeper but then that attribute was also declining somehow....

[Spurs08]

this is also one of my main concern regarding this game. since it is so rare for a GK to get over 8 rating in a match, they develope quite slower than their advanced teammates who easily get higher rating. I once have a young GK with model professional personality, n highly recommended by all of my coaching staffs (my club has 5 stars training facility, n 4 good GK coaches) but again since my team was playing an effective possession football, we rarely got attacked, resulting on average-below average GK's rating. he could get rating better than 7 only when my team won with a big margin. In the end, my young STC with balanced personality could get over this model professional GK, according to my coaches. At first glance the difference of growth was so clear even though they came from the same generation. Also, my Gk generated with 10 vision which is quite good for a sweeper keeper but then that attribute was also declining somehow....

The vision seems to be a bug which hasn't been fixed yet. All goalkeepers will permanently decline in vision until they're legally blind

[Guest]

Just to be clear that's not a bug, currently vision is not an attribute that is important for any of the keeper roles, as such it's not vital for their ability in the ME. Has been this way since at least FM14.

Whether SI's current interpretation is correct is open to debate & I have discussed this exact issue with the ME team at length over recent years.

[Spurs08]

Just to be clear that's not a bug, currently vision is not an attribute that is important for any of the keeper roles, as such it's not vital for their ability in the ME. Has been this way since at least FM14.

Whether SI's current interpretation is correct is open to debate & I have discussed this exact issue with the ME team at length over recent years.

That doesn't explain why it consistently drops like a stone moreso than any other attribute a goalkeeper isn't likely to use, or any other useless attribute for any other position. Excuse me if I'm being obtuse but doesn't the fact it is initially set relatively highly in the database for many goalies indicate that the researchers at least are under the impression it is relevent and helpful? It honestly seems like a bug and failing that is at least an inconsistency.

[rninejr]

yes even a young striker with positioning attribute like 2 at first, will stil growing to at least around 6-9 when he get older, like 25 years old++

[Guest]

That doesn't explain why it consistently drops like a stone moreso than any other attribute a goalkeeper isn't likely to use.

As it's not an important attribute for any of the roles it's not included as part of role training so the CA shifting system will essentially steal points from the attribute.

I don't agree with the decision SI have made & have made that quite clear to them, from a personal perspective I do hope that they change their interpretation to match mine.

[Draakon]

this is also one of my main concern regarding this game. since it is so rare for a GK to get over 8 rating in a match, they develope quite slower than their advanced teammates who easily get higher rating. I once have a young GK with model professional personality, n highly recommended by all of my coaching staffs (my club has 5 stars training facility, n 4 good GK coaches) but again since my team was playing an effective possession football, we rarely got attacked, resulting on average-below average GK's rating. he could get rating better than 7 only when my team won with a big margin. In the end, my young STC with balanced personality could get over this model professional GK, according to my coaches. At first glance the difference of growth was so clear even though they came from the same generation. Also, my Gk generated with 10 vision which is quite good for a sweeper keeper but then that attribute was also declining somehow....

On the other hand - that's very realistic. If you imagine such team and this kind of young goalkeeper in real life, who very rarely has to make a save - how would you expect him to gain experience and get better?

We so often see that best goalkeepers come from mid-table clubs - who have plenty of work to do in games and whose performance is more crucial to their team success.

[Menion]

On the other hand - that's very realistic. If you imagine such team and this kind of young goalkeeper in real life, who very rarely has to make a save - how would you expect him to gain experience and get better?

We so often see that best goalkeepers come from mid-table clubs - who have plenty of work to do in games and whose performance is more crucial to their team success.

That’s not exactly true though, is it? When you at the majority of the best goalkeepers of the last 25 years, it’s difficult to spot one that played more than a handful of games outside of a team chasing a European place. You look at perhaps the two best goalkeepers in the world in Neuer (Schalke and Bayern) and De Gea (Atletico Madrid and Man Utd) and they haven’t played for mid-table clubs.

While your argument has merit, to call it ‘often’ is being generous. It would say it allows average to good goalkeepers to push on quicker than if they were at a top side. A goalkeeper with the right mentality and potential will push on at a top side.

[Draakon]

Menion, so and so - are the best goalkeepers playing in best sides, or are they best goalkeepers because they play in the best sides?

While your argument has a point, a good goalkeeper often starts from mid-table sides. Take German Bundesliga for example. Yes, ter Stegen plays for Barca, but where did he prove himself? Yes, Neuer plays for Bayern, but he became great goalkeeper in Schalke. Making more saves in matches helps GK to showcase his abilities, while good defensive line helps him considerably and allows to collect clean sheets more easily. The best example in this department is perhaps AC Milan in early 90's. Sebastiano Rossi was a fairly average goalkeeper, but because of such a formidable defensive line that consisted Baresi, Maldini and Costacurta, it allowed them to win both in Serie A and Champions League.

About this 'often'. How often do you see a 20-24 years old goalkeeper coming from youth ranks of European top team? He's often bought into this team, but just after he's proven himself in smaller/less reputable side. I already mentioned Ter Stegen and Neuer. What about Thibault Courtois who got his real chance in Chelsea just after he'd prove himself in Atletico? Juventus signed Gianluigi Buffon from Parma after he'd been Italian NT goalkeeper for several years. De Gea came from Atletico etc.

Despite that I'll give you one example on the other end of that scale - Iker Casillas.

[rninejr]

calling those clubs u mentioned as "mid-table" clubs is not appropriate tbh.

each of them is, or was one of few major clubs of their own league. Even parma was considered a member of The Magnificent 7 back then with Fabio Cannavaro, Lilian Thuram, Hernan Crespo, Enrico Chiesa, n Roberto Sensini as Buffon's teammates.

Atletico at the time when De Gea was there is not a mid-table team too. So did Schalke when Neuer was there.

in Courtois Case, Petr Cech was still in his prime so Indeed Courtois need to prove himself worthy, but Atletico for sure, was not your so called "mid-table" club. Together with Courtois they reached UCL FInal, also won liga BBVA. Diego simeone n his coaching staffs n scouts gave the main GK post to someone as young as Courtois for a reason, that they believe in his potential.

Sepp Maier was only 15 when he got transferred to Bayern, but he managed to be one of the best GK in history at obviously the biggest club in Germany, and the world.

Edwin van Der Sar made his name at Ajax at the age of 20, when Ajax was still considered a force to be reckoned with in Europe.

now the newest case is Gianluigi Donnarumma at AC Milan. Ofc AC Milan now isnt in its prime era but it is still considered an Italian Giant. Yet someone as young as Donnaruma could make his way.

OFC there are many GK in history that have gone through your explanation, made their names at mid-table club before gained more glory at bigger clubs later. Oliver Kahn n Peter Schmeichel are the best examples. But the point here is that it is not quite rare to see a young Gk capable to pierce through the starting eleven regularly at one of European Top Teams. Their early club might not be the best in the world, but still can be considered Top Teams. Come on, Atletico, a mid-table team?

[VibeTribe]

So did anyone solve this?

My Perin is still playing ever game, the team is winning and his CA dropped by 1 in the last 2 seasons.