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[FM2016] Alternative Scottish Pyramid [WIP}

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Scotland_national_football_team_logo_2014.svg_zpsh1odjtyg.pngAlternative Scottish Pyramid scotland_flag_zpslr8nxzjs.jpg

As always I’ll be aiming to start a long term save in Scotland with FM16, however like most people I find the current structure rather boring. Thankfully in real life it’s looking like league reconstruction will be a reality within a year or two.

My aim is to create a new more exciting but somewhat realistic new structure which looks to tackle some off the issues which I believe are effecting Scottish football, these issues are;

  • Staleness within the leagues.
  • Too small a top league.
  • Too many ‘league’ clubs.
  • Regionalisation of smaller league.

The Leagues

Right now the SPL is too small, the league has a 'top' and a 'bottom' with no real middle, a prime example off this is Dundee United, a few players lost and they have imploded from a team challenging for European places to a team 7 points adrift from at the foot off the table. The current size of league makes giving youth players an opportunity and long term squad building very risky for many clubs as a few bad results can drag teams into a relegation dogfight, a successful league needs 'top', 'middle' and 'bottom' clubs.

This new system consists off a 16-16-10 setup with the Premiership and Championship being the two main leagues, taking care of both the "too small a top league" and "too many league clubs" problem.

Below the Championship, League one is Split into regional sub Divisions (North & South) this will act as a feeder league for the Championship with regionalisation helping to keep the costs of clubs traveling down, avoiding the situation of Highland League clubs worrying about the increased costs of travelling in a national division (Brora Rangers last season). Promotion across the pyramid will be more open too with every division having at least one automatic promotion place.

The Cup

The Scottish cup remains unchanged however the League Cup will contain the new format while the Challenge cup will now be regionalised and take place on weekends to try and attract higher attendances, while the tournament will be ‘speed up’ with a December final.

Youth

The youth league has been scraped and replaced with reserve football, while I’m toying with the idea of B teams but unsure if I’ll include them.

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prem%20logo_zpsxmpcxvkf.png Scottish Premiership prem%20logo_zpsxmpcxvkf.png

My initial idea was to turn the SPL into a 16 team league where clubs play each other twice, giving us 30 games with no splits.

However the more I thought about this the more I realised how unfeasible such a set up would be. There’s a lot of noise within Scottish football about the desire for a 16 team league so I’m sticking to that number, but to be a financial viable system it’ll need extra fixtures to make up for the shortfall in revenue from 8 games lost for the Premiership.

I looked to the splits in Denmark and Belgium as motivation. After 30 games the league will split into 4 groups, giving every team in the league an extra 6 balanced games (3 home & 3 away), and an improvement in the current split when teams can play away than home games or vice versa.

prem_zps5rpobzgt.png

Team 1 – CL Qualification/Qualifiers

Team 2 – EL Qualification/CL Qualifiers

Team 3 – EL Qualifiers

Team 4 – European Play-Off’s

————————————

Team 5 – European Play-Off’s

Team 6

Team 7

Team 8

————————————

Team 9

Team 10

Team 11

Team 12 – Relegation Play off Semi Final

————————————

Team 13

Team 14 – Relegation Play off Semi Final

Team 15 – Automatic Relegation

Team 16 – Automatic Relegation

After 36 games the teams in 4th and 5th place will meet in a 2 legged playoff with the winner taking the last Europa League spot (depending on the Scottish Cup winner). The teams in 12th & 14th will also meet in a 2 legged playoff match with the loser entering the relegation playoff final.

Within this structure we get a bigger league, less games against the same clubs (2 games against 12 clubs & 4 against 3 clubs) and the guarantee of no 'meaningless' games as every club will have something to play for during the splits.

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champ%20logo_zps7iuyzefy.png Scottish Championship champ%20logo_zps7iuyzefy.png

The Championship will consist off a simpler 16 team league with no further matches other than relegation and promotion playoffs. Prize money has been distributed more fairly thought-out the pyramid and this coupled with Championship clubs being guaranteed 4 League Cup matches will make up in the shortfall off revenue from losing 3 home league gates.

champ_zpsguvmmdv1.png

Within the System 1st and 2nd are automatically promoted while the teams 3rd-5th enter the promotions playoffs. At the other end of the table 16th and 15th place are relegated while the team in 14th places enters a relegation playoff.

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lg1%20logo_zpsr1yds9dq.png Scottish League One North & South lg1%20logo_zpsr1yds9dq.png

League One has been regionalised into North and South sections, teams will play each other 4 times giving the league 36 games. The top placed team will be automatically promoted while the two runners up will play in a 2 legged playoff with the winner facing 14th in the Championship in the Promotion Playoff Final. Each sub division has been given Independent awards while clubs originally from the Highland/Lowland league have been given corrected attendances, ticket prices and club membership schemes based on figures taken from official sources.

lge%201%20n_zps5dt0js4p.png

south_zps6qseglyv.png

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Someone was looking for one of these on pimpmyfm... :)

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Looks fantastic. Will you consider adding another level?

I'll be adding the Highland/Lowland leagues before release but will need to add clubs to these divisions to make up the numbers

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when will we be able to download the database?

Hopefully before xmas

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I'll be adding the Highland/Lowland leagues before release but will need to add clubs to these divisions to make up the numbers

Indeed. I love those. My ideal campaign is to start really really low in the Scottish Highlands. I'm currently using Sange Blu's Scottish file as background to an English save - he has level 8 leagues with teams from the likes of Orkney and Skye.

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This looks awesome dude. My long term save is always Scottish so I'm very much looking forward to this as the current structure is stale. (I feel the same way about the leagues in real life as well)

If you need any testers, I would be happy to help :)

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What are you doing with the other senior clubs and also junior clubs ??

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What are you doing with the other senior clubs and also junior clubs ??

I'll be adding Highland/Lowland League, East & South of Scotland leagues to the pyramid. I'm not sure how I'll add the Junior teams as off yet as in real life they are mostly very resistant to join the league pyramid

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How big will them leagues be if your picking out teams for Labrokes North - South what teams do you have in the south league as you have 2 north leagues posted.

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How big will them leagues be if your picking out teams for Labrokes North - South what teams do you have in the south league as you have 2 north leagues posted.

woops, here's League 1 South

south_zps6qseglyv.png

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woops, here's League 1 South

south_zps6qseglyv.png

Thanks looking good.

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lge%20cup%20logo_zpspdfd7ugx.png League Cup lge%20cup%20logo_zpspdfd7ugx.png

  • Increase in Prize money in accordance with new TV deal
  • 13 Televised games, each team recieves £40k for every televised game they appear in
  • League 1 clubs play in a qualifying round
  • Championship and SPL clubs seeded till the group stage
  • Groups regionalised as best as possible
  • New bonus point system included
  • European participants seeded to the knockout Rounds

Some Sample Groups



g_zps4epdeuad.pngf_zpspya4vpv1.png

e_zpsu1eq0pw3.pngb_zpsf2u3vfot.png

I'll release a beta version of the database which goes as low as League 1 tonight

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will it come up on this page when it is ready to download?

Yeah I'll post a link on this thread

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Looking forward to it you do this with advanced editor ?? Also does it have the new winter break ??

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The League Cup runner up gets more money than the winner. But great work

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How is everyone getting on with the database so far?

I'm working on adding Lowland/Highland leagues and cups right now

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What other cups you adding ??

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How is everyone getting on with the database so far?

I'm working on adding Lowland/Highland leagues and cups right now

dont know if is down to ME but "Hamilton" won the league,every team inconsistent ,ok in reality celtic should win but a horrific start cost them.

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dont know if is down to ME but "Hamilton" won the league,every team inconsistent ,ok in reality celtic should win but a horrific start cost them.

Yeah this is purely down to the ME iv'e not edited any players or premier league clubs

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I think this is a good format, i want try this DB because is really good see how many work u make.

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May have found a bug, noticed it last season but never thought anything of it.

I've just won the SPL title, before the split, but I'm only 8 points clear at the top. Is this how it is supposed to work?

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Possibly another bug? Just been given £1.95M for finishing top of the championship group, still only 8 points clear and I've yet to play to a game.

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Yup, defo a bug, just played my first championship game against Celtic which I won. I got another £1.95M for finishing top of the group. I'm 11 points clear and there are still 5 games to be played.

Its either a bug, or the game just *knows* that my dominant Aberdeen team are going to finish top :)

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Can you check your finances tab and see if you have defo been given the prize money twice.

With the league classifications for some reason they display as if the league was only for 30 games but this doesn't affect the final outcome, e.g if 2nd place where to pip you to top they would win the league and the game would recognise that, I'll need to invetugate if it effects the prize mone though!

I've been concentraing on the next instalment, tier 4 which will be the Highland/Lowland league and aiming for a release before next weekend

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Can you check your finances tab and see if you have defo been given the prize money twice.

With the league classifications for some reason they display as if the league was only for 30 games but this doesn't affect the final outcome, e.g if 2nd place where to pip you to top they would win the league and the game would recognise that, I'll need to invetugate if it effects the prize mone though!

I've been concentraing on the next instalment, tier 4 which will be the Highland/Lowland league and aiming for a release before next weekend

I'm at Christmas time in my current game at the moment, league is very tight so this season will be the perfect time testing.

If I get the chance to throw the league after the split I'll do that and test. (assuming Im top when the split happens that is..)

Are you planning on keeping both the U20 and thr reserves? If so, are you adding a reserve league? I think its quite good having both. Or even an U19 and a U21.

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Hey Rab,

Finished the season (Couldn't post last night as the forums were down)

So at the split, it reported that Rangers won the league, as they were top. But it does seem to have correctly awarded me (Aberdeen) as the competition winners at the end of the season.

In terms of split money, I got prize money before the first game of the split and then again after I had played the first game. Something else I noticed is that the prize money has gone up :) Must be a result of a good showing in Europe from Aberdeen and Celtic, the league reputation has increased. Was ranked 24th in 2015 and is currently ranked 18th. Not sure when the rankings change but the new season hasn't started yet, so we might jump up higher yet.

One bug I've noticed today though...and I assume this is related to the awarding of the league just before the split, but I got the following news item:

Capture.png

Even though Aberdeen have been awarded the title:

Capture.png

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Ah, yes we've moved up in the world. It will be interesting to see what happens now with the European place playoffs you have in place, Scotland now has 5 places in Europe instead of 4:

Capture.png

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Are you planning on keeping both the U20 and thr reserves? If so, are you adding a reserve league? I think its quite good having both. Or even an U19 and a U21.

That was an accident in all honesty, in the next version it'll only be reserve teams, Realistically most clubs can't fund both a reserve and U19/20 side, there's been a lot off calls about switching back to reserve football hence the move to reserve football from U20's

Hey Rab,

So at the split, it reported that Rangers won the league, as they were top. But it does seem to have correctly awarded me (Aberdeen) as the competition winners at the end of the season.

In terms of split money, I got prize money before the first game of the split and then again after I had played the first game. Something else I noticed is that the prize money has gone up :) Must be a result of a good showing in Europe from Aberdeen and Celtic, the league reputation has increased. Was ranked 24th in 2015 and is currently ranked 18th. Not sure when the rankings change but the new season hasn't started yet, so we might jump up higher yet.

I've been trying to fix the premature league classifications but so far I'm no further forward with that, same with the prize money but this could be linked! All prize money rises as the game progresses, think this is down to dynamic league reputations.

Ah, yes we've moved up in the world. It will be interesting to see what happens now with the European place playoffs you have in place, Scotland now has 5 places in Europe instead of 4:

They playoff would now just effect which club enters Europe at an earlier round, if you got a 4th Champions League place then it would be a playoff for that, unfortunately we can only make the league work with one set of rules so can't adjust anything in the case of extra European places etc

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Realistically most clubs can't fund both a reserve and U19/20 side

I don't know how it works in Scotland, but wouldn't it be more realistic that a club that can't afford both has a youth team but no "adult" reserves team? In Denmark at least, all clubs have a youth department, but only the full-time professional ones have a separate reserves team...

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@rabcp, any plans to upload this but without the split and additional games?

Love the sound of the restructure overall but I've got a huge, personal, real life hatred towards the split in that I don't believe leagues should ever split and would be delighted with 30 league games a season!

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I don't know how it works in Scotland, but wouldn't it be more realistic that a club that can't afford both has a youth team but no "adult" reserves team? In Denmark at least, all clubs have a youth department, but only the full-time professional ones have a separate reserves team...

This is how Scottish football currently works, clubs have a senior side and enter a side into a U20 league, the general consensus within Scottish football is that the jump from U20's to first team football is to big without reserve team football to bridge the gap. Figures within Scottish football have suggested scrapping the U20 league and reverting back to reserve football, the theory behind this is the top young players will learn more playing against more experienced players and it would stop clubs 'wasting resources' developing players who will never make it to that clubs first team just so they can field a full U20's team

@rabcp, any plans to upload this but without the split and additional games?

Love the sound of the restructure overall but I've got a huge, personal, real life hatred towards the split in that I don't believe leagues should ever split and would be delighted with 30 league games a season!

I may upload a split free version if I have time.

Hey Rab,

Finished the season (Couldn't post last night as the forums were down)

So at the split, it reported that Rangers won the league, as they were top. But it does seem to have correctly awarded me (Aberdeen) as the competition winners at the end of the season.

In terms of split money, I got prize money before the first game of the split and then again after I had played the first game. Something else I noticed is that the prize money has gone up :) Must be a result of a good showing in Europe from Aberdeen and Celtic, the league reputation has increased. Was ranked 24th in 2015 and is currently ranked 18th. Not sure when the rankings change but the new season hasn't started yet, so we might jump up higher yet.

One bug I've noticed today though...and I assume this is related to the awarding of the league just before the split, but I got the following news item:

I have now fixed the issue of league classification places being issued before places are mathematically confirmed.

The prize money issue has been more challenging, I had set prize money to be awarded within each individual group, this way each club would receive the correct amount based on their final position, why some clubs are being given double prize money 1 game into the split is beyond me. If I set the prize money into stage 0 within the editor then all clubs receive a single payment at the end off the season. However the league splits into 4 and the editor can only split the league into 3 meaning some clubs position in the league may be different to there group, e.g. Dundee could be in the top of the relegation playoff group (9th) but have more points than 8th place, without a split in the stage 0 table, Dundee would then be given the prize money for coming 7th. it's a better way than clubs begin payed early and twice but hopefully I can get working as intended

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This is how Scottish football currently works, clubs have a senior side and enter a side into a U20 league, the general consensus within Scottish football is that the jump from U20's to first team football is to big without reserve team football to bridge the gap. Figures within Scottish football have suggested scrapping the U20 league and reverting back to reserve football, the theory behind this is the top young players will learn more playing against more experienced players and it would stop clubs 'wasting resources' developing players who will never make it to that clubs first team just so they can field a full U20's team.

Thanks for clarifying. :)

My concern with scrapping the U20 league and only having reserve teams would be that teams would sign too many Over-20 fringe players who would then take playing time in the reserve squad from the youth players and hamper their development...

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Thanks for clarifying. :)

My concern with scrapping the U20 league and only having reserve teams would be that teams would sign too many Over-20 fringe players who would then take playing time in the reserve squad from the youth players and hamper their development...

There would be no incentive for teams to do this as the reserve teams do not play within the main league system such as 'B' teams.

I'm hoping to get the next update out for Friday evening, changes include;

Fixes

- Increased attendances for League Cup

- Increased attendance for Petrofac Cup Final

- Fixed issue which seen some lower league sides reach the League Cup Group Stage after losing the qualifying round

- Fixed issue with Premiership sides being given prize money before the season had finished

Additions

- Addition of the Lowland/Highland Leagues

- Addition of the Lowland & Highland League Cups

- Full revamp of the Championship and League One

- New fixture lists for all Leagues

- Addition of winter break in the Scottish Premiership

- Added 130 real staff members to lower league clubs

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There would be no incentive for teams to do this as the reserve teams do not play within the main league system such as 'B' teams.

But if you're a fringe player at Celtic, surely your ambition is to play in the Premiership. Why would such a player care if he played reserve games in a separate reserves league or in e.g. League 2?

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But if you're a fringe player at Celtic, surely your ambition is to play in the Premiership. Why would such a player care if he played reserve games in a separate reserves league or in e.g. League 2?

Don't get me wrong I see your point and half agree with it! I still believe that there would be no real advantage in filling a reserve squad full journeymen but some teams will do just that! But I'd like to belive that talented young players would get the nod over fringe players but that end off the day it'll come down to the club/managers philosophy. Unfortunely the U20 leagues in Scotland have'nt been a success and the feeling here is reintroducing reserve football would decrease the transition to first team football.

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