Ultimate Stars And Legends Game FM14 (1880's - 2014)

[Fenech]

From the Nation which has just won the World Cup, presenting Bayern Munich, the most successful club in German football history, having won a record 24 national titles and 17 national cups. The club had its period of greatest success in the middle of the 1970s when, under the captaincy of Franz Beckenbauer, it won the European Cup three times in a row. Since the formation of the Bundesliga, Bayern has been the dominant club in German football with 23 titles and has won 6 of the last 10 titles.

It is a pleasure to be able to bring back a star studded 25 Man Bayern Munich Squad, they will rival any team in the game and it is best to avoid a penalty shoot out, because they will most likely win! Quite simply one of the greatest football clubs in the world. The history of Bayern Munich is great and they boast the likes of Franz, Gerd, Lothar, Robben, Ribery and Ballack. All I can say is that if to happen to play them. Good Luck! And if you happen to manage them, you won't need any good luck.

This is not the final Bayern Munich squad but it is very close to it.

Chairman: Wilhelm Neudecker

Manager Udo Lattek

[Fenech]

Jens Mustermann

Mustermann is one of the most successful German players in recent history, having won eight Bundesliga titles, six DFB-Pokals, the UEFA Cup in 1996, the UEFA Champions League and the Intercontinental Cup, both achieved in 2001. His individual contributions have earned him four consecutive UEFA Best European Goalkeeper awards, three IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper awards, and two German Footballer of the Year trophies. At the 2002 FIFA World Cup, Mustermann became the first and only goalkeeper in the tournament's history to win the Golden Ball.

Welcoming back the German Legend: Jens Mustermann!

[scotty1974]

This update looks great but im not keen on using there nicknames in the game ie... the gale of the carribean sea etc, why not just use his real name

[scotty1974]

Jens Mustermann

Mustermann is one of the most successful German players in recent history, having won eight Bundesliga titles, six DFB-Pokals, the UEFA Cup in 1996, the UEFA Champions League and the Intercontinental Cup, both achieved in 2001. His individual contributions have earned him four consecutive UEFA Best European Goalkeeper awards, three IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper awards, and two German Footballer of the Year trophies. At the 2002 FIFA World Cup, Mustermann became the first and only goalkeeper in the tournament's history to win the Golden Ball.

Welcoming back the German Legend: Jens Mustermann!

His names Oliver Kahn

[Fenech]

His names Oliver Kahn

Well Spotted! But I don't think he wants his name published for legal reasons...

[Fenech]

This update looks great but im not keen on using there nicknames in the game ie... the gale of the carribean sea etc, why not just use his real name

Thanks Scotty and I can confirm that every players real name is displayed in the game. The only nicknames being used are the ones that are earned, and they are only common names, if you go into the players information screen, you can see the full name displayed there. Saying that I will be cutting down on the nicknames used as common names from herein on.

The general idea is that where a player has earned a nickname, then at least there is a record of it in the game and adds an element to the players which there has not been before, so its also quite educational in that sense. Here is an example below of 'The Gale of the Cantabrian Sea' which shows his real name is still in the game.

[Lord Rowell]

Let me know if you need any help when you get round to Sunderland.

Years back, for FM2008 IIRC, I made a Sunderland Legends team for my own amusement. I did quite a lot of research as well as using my own knowledge of historic & recent players and I made records in a spreadsheet.

[Fenech]

Let me know if you need any help when you get round to Sunderland.

Years back, for FM2008 IIRC, I made a Sunderland Legends team for my own amusement. I did quite a lot of research as well as using my own knowledge of historic & recent players and I made records in a spreadsheet.

Hi Lord Rowell, and thanks for your Question. That's fantastic. I have spent a lot of time on Sunderland and I appreciate that they are an area of expertise for you.

I have created Sunderland, however they are not finalised yet, they are coming in at Media Prediction 3rd so far! Have a look at the team which I have posted as a screenshot on here. If you can think of anyone not in the top 25 that deserves to be there, let me know and I will research it for you and consider it very carefully.

We are talking anytime from 1800's to 2014 .... they have a great team already, they were a massive club back in the day!

[Fenech]

Update: 750 Legends and Stars in the game so far and ready to play. Further Updates to follow in due course.

[Ernest166]

Update: 750 Legends and Stars in the game so far and ready to play. Further Updates to follow in due course.

brilliant job mate!

Can't wait for it to be released.

[CMdan44]

His names Oliver Kahn

no **** Sherlock. Anyone who's ever played FM knows that his name automatically changes to Jens Mustermann (assuming Fenech has used the original player rather than recreated him from scratch)

Thanks Scotty and I can confirm that every players real name is in the game. The only nicknames being used are the ones that are earned, and they are only common names, if you go into the players information screen, you can see the full name displayed there. Saying that I will be cutting down on the nicknames used as common names from herein on.

The general idea is that where a player has earned a nickname, then at least there is a record of it in the game and adds an element to the players which there has not been before, so its also quite educational in that sense.

That is very, very stupid.

Also, Robben, Ribery, Gomez at Bayern Munich?

Given you like to put players at a) their first big club or b) the place where they were in their prime, I'd have gone with Robben at PSV and Ribery at Marseilles. And surely Gomez should be at Stuttgart?

[Ernest166]

no **** Sherlock. Anyone who's ever played FM knows that his name automatically changes to Jens Mustermann (assuming Fenech has used the original player rather than recreated him from scratch)

That is very, very stupid.

Also, Robben, Ribery, Gomez at Bayern Munich?

Given you like to put players at a) their first big club or b) the place where they were in their prime, I'd have gone with Robben at PSV and Ribery at Marseilles. And surely Gomez should be at Stuttgart?

If it's stupid, you can create the whole database as you pleased. The least you can do isn't criticize someone who make something for the community when he doesn't owe you a thing.

[Fenech]

no **** Sherlock. Anyone who's ever played FM knows that his name automatically changes to Jens Mustermann (assuming Fenech has used the original player rather than recreated him from scratch)

That is very, very stupid.

Also, Robben, Ribery, Gomez at Bayern Munich?

Given you like to put players at a) their first big club or b) the place where they were in their prime, I'd have gone with Robben at PSV and Ribery at Marseilles. And surely Gomez should be at Stuttgart?

HI Dan,

Thank you for your Questions and I really appreciate your feedback.

I have always used the original player where possible. That is the case with Jens, I know he is Oliver, but we cant use his real name for legal reasons.

The Nicknames is my idea and only for players who have earned them, the full real name is still in the game on the information screen. The vast majority of players do not have nicknames. The Nicknames are not made up, they are nicknames the player earned over the course of their careers and have been documented and verified online.

No clubs have been finalised yet, players are generally at the first top club they were at, at the youngest age possible, only the top top players will be coming into their prime..

Robben is a top top player, so he will be 24 years of age, he is not needed at Real Madrid, so he is 25 at Bayern Munich.

There is no ultimate rule as to where a player will end up but I will mostly try to follow the criteria set out, however there will be occasion when I will use common sense as a players ultimate destination, the only thing I can definitely guarantee is that every player who is at a certain age, was definitely at that club when they were that age.

If I was going to follow my first top division club policy with Ribery then he would of been at Lille where he was at 14 years of age, but I feel his best work is at Bayern Munich and he is a top player, He joined Bayern Munich when he was 24 and that is where he played his best football and I am happy to keep him there.

In regards to Mario Gomez, I can't argue with that and he has now been put in Stuttgart where he deserves to be.

As previously stated, these are all provisional squads so it is open to debate and suggestion and I am really pleased that you have raised these points.

The Bayern Munich squad has now been updated and Gomez is now at Stuttgart.

Nothing is a closed book until the game is released so thank you again and please do not hesitate to come back if you have any further questions.

[Fenech]

If it's stupid, you can create the whole database as you pleased. The least you can do isn't criticize someone who make something for the community when he doesn't owe you a thing.

Thanks and I don't mind criticism, as long as it is constructive criticism and I shall always consider everyone's thoughts and opinions and give them the same value and act upon any requested changes that I agree with once I have researched and thought about it further. I really appreciate the support and encouragement of the community, which has been great so far!

[bennymc]

That is very, very stupid.

Cool, so what have you ever made? Edit them out if it's such a burden for you to have someone else's take on things.

[Ernest166]

Thanks and I don't mind criticism, as long as it is constructive criticism and I shall always consider everyone's thoughts and opinions and give them the same value and act upon any requested changes that I agree with once I have researched and thought about it further. I really appreciate the support and encouragement of the community, which has been great so far!

Thats the power of the community - Sticking together on everything makes us stronger

[Dcarey2014]

http://totaldutchfootball.com/2014/01/04/psvs-all-time-xi/

http://andrzejpavlov.hubpages.com/hub/Who-is-the-Greatest-PSV-Football-Players-Ever

Ideas for the PSV squad, check them out Fenech.

http://www.rankopedia.com/Best-Feyenoord-Rotterdam-Player-Ever/Step1/13935/.htm

http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=95576

and for Feyenoord, hope it helps you with ideas.

[Fenech]

http://totaldutchfootball.com/2014/01/04/psvs-all-time-xi/

http://andrzejpavlov.hubpages.com/hub/Who-is-the-Greatest-PSV-Football-Players-Ever

Ideas for the PSV squad, check them out Fenech.

Thanks, I will bring back PSV, can't be letting Ajax have it all their own way!

[Dcarey2014]

Thanks, I will bring back PSV, can't be letting Ajax have it all their own way!

No problem mate, I got a lot of free time on my hands at the moment and I'd be happy to help you out in the research department, so if you have any assignments let me know and I could do some more in depth research.

[Fenech]

No problem mate, I got a lot of free time on my hands at the moment and I'd be happy to help you out in the research department, so if you have any assignments let me know and I could do some more in depth research.

That's great. I really appreciate that. It would be helpful if you could do some research on Wolves? They have won 3 league titles and 4 FA Cups so they must of had some good players down the years, I'll be looking for 25 players in total and at least two for every position to give each squad a balance. I am looking for any player who played for them from 1800's to the present day.

I'm particularly interested in their championship winning squads and FA Cups wins, trying to find the best possible 25 players for them, if you do have the time, then that would be very helpful and I can concentrate on something else in the meantime.

[Dcarey2014]

That's great. I really appreciate that. It would be helpful if you could do some research on Wolves? They have won 3 league titles and 4 FA Cups so they must of had some good players down the years, I'll be looking for 25 players in total and at least two for every position to give each squad a balance. I am looking for any player who played for them from 1800's to the present day.

I'm particularly interested in their championship winning squads and FA Cups wins, trying to find the best possible 25 players for them, if you do have the time, then that would be very helpful and I can concentrate on something else in the meantime.

Got it, No problem I'll start tonight and post my conclusions when I'm done.

[CMdan44]

If it's stupid, you can create the whole database as you pleased. The least you can do isn't criticize someone who make something for the community when he doesn't owe you a thing.

never said he owed me anything. This whole thread is about asking for opinions and feedback so I gave mine. The problem is where exactly?

[CMdan44]

Cool, so what have you ever made? Edit them out if it's such a burden for you to have someone else's take on things.

erm, I've made plenty, not entirely sure how it's relevant, though.

Yeah, I will be editing it if I download this but I'm pretty sure most will agree that the nicknames thing is a bit stupid and so they'll be editing it out too, which kind of means it'd be easier if it just wasn't in in the first place.

[CMdan44]

HI Dan,

I have always used the original player where possible. That is the case with Jens, I know he is Oliver, but we cant use his real name for legal reasons.

yeah, I know, that's the point I was making to Scott or whatever his name is.

Re. Robben and Ribery, that's fair enough, I was just throwing an opinion out there.

[Lord Rowell]

Let me introduce you to the Clown Prince of Soccer. Len Shackleton was one of the greatest football entertainers the game has ever produced. He played simply to entertain the crowds.

"Apart from the adhesive ball control and breathtaking body swerve, Shack could hit a ball. His slender legs could crack the ball like a Bofors gun." Malcolm Hartley

During games he frequently exhibited behaviour which pleased many of his fans, though upset much of the football establishment, and some in the game thought his antics to be "unsportsman-like". On one occasion, 2–1 up against Arsenal with 5 minutes to go, he dribbled the ball into The Gunners' penalty area before putting his foot on it, pretending to comb his hair while looking at his watch. Other examples include mocking opposition full-backs by playing one-twos with the corner flag, literally sitting on the ball to torment defenders who couldn't dispossess him, and teasing a beaten goalkeeper by putting his foot on the ball on the goal line.

One of his contemporaries remarked: "Once in possession, and few can match his dexterity at bringing the ball under control, the ball becomes his slave. All the skills of inside forward play – dribbling, feinting, correct positioning and accurate passing are his to command." He was also adept at back heeling penalty kicks into the goal.

On announcing his retirement he famously threw a penny into the air and caught it on his instep before flicking into the air and catching it in his chest pocket in front of watching journalists. He said that the average directors knowledge of football consists of a single blank page.

The FA were not impressed and he was seldom picked for England because of his antic upsetting the FA establishment, on one of the few occasions he was picked for England, he scored a goal against Germany by chipping the ball into the net. His curtailed international career owes much to England selectors like the one who refused to pick him, "because we play at Wembley stadium, not the London Palladium."

In a tour game he beat the entire opposition defence and ran alone towards the goal. He stopped the ball on the line and rolled it back to Ford. "Now say I never pass to you," Shack shouted. Another example of his fun attitude to football was in a match with Manchester City. Sunderland were awarded a penalty. Shack decided to take the kick and retreated to the half way line for his run up. The great Frank Swift was in goal for City. Shack raced in but at the last moment, with Swifty already committed to dive one way, Shack stopped and gently back heeled the ball into the empty half of the net. As the players returned to line up for the restart Swifty charged after Shack, grabbed him by the head and landed a big kiss on his forehead. When will you see anything like that again? Len Shackleton wasn't really into physical training. Apparently he used to run around the pitch whilst keeping a ball in the air the whole time.

"Shackleton was unpredictable, brilliantly inconsistent, flamboyant, radical and mischievous; in short, he possessed all the attributes of a footballing genius which he undoubtedly was." Sir Stanley Matthews

Send in the Clowns! Where are the Clowns? The Clown Prince of Soccer, there will never be another Len Shackleton and we feature him here today.

Hi Fenech, thanks for your earlier reply. I didn't realise you'd already done Sunderland, I'd obviously missed them in the long thread.

Your research looks really good and you've generally got the spirit of the player.

I'll suggest some modifications you might want to consider, I know a fair bit about this guy due to years of tales from my Dad who watched him at Roker Park.

1. Increase significantly his corners and crossing, he could put the ball right on the head of a Centre-Forward. Back in the day, we had a donkey CF called Dickie Davies but boy could he head a ball. One season he finished top scorer and there was a saying that Shack used Dickie Davies's head to score goals.

(btw, this is not the same Dickie Davies of World of Sport fame )

2. Not a defensive player I don't think. So you could ease right down on Marking, Tackling.

3. Mentality, I would go way way down on Aggression & Bravery - he wasn't that kind of player at all.

4. Creativity and Flair are very much the ones to keep at 20 . Decisions - I would nudge down a few points, maybe to about 11-12. This man was the Clown Prince of Soccer, not the architect or the musical conductor like Cruyff was. Shack had the ability to be really frustrating I'm sure!

5. Nudge teamwork up, he wasn't totally selfish, probably to about 10. Work rate I would bring down, to about 8-12.

6. I don't think he was especially known for pace and fitness so I'd significantly bring those down. However, I'd push balance up to an outstanding level. Probably worth keeping acceleration reasonably high even if you bring pace down significantly.

7. Positions: I'd include at high level AM®, M® and M(L)

8. Feet: Make sure he has two-good feet - I'm sure he wasn't a one-footed player.

9. I don't know what preferred moves you have but I'd suggest dribble down left, dribble down right, and possibly killer balls.

Really, anything that makes him the wizardry trickster that he was, though he wasn't, I don't think, a power-player of the modern type nor was he an all-rounder. He was a maverick and technical genius and this is what needs to come across here IMO.

I'll have a look at the team list later.

[Lord Rowell]

In 5 April 1890, the Football League's founder, William McGregor, labelled Sunderland as "the team of all talents" stating that they had "a talented man in every position". He was not wrong! Sunderland are England's sixth most successful club of all time having won the English League championship six times: in 1892, 1893, 1895, 1902, 1913 and, most recently, in 1936. They have also been runners-up on a further five occasions: in 1894, 1898, 1901, 1923 and 1935. Sunderland have also won the FA Cup twice, in 1937 against Preston North End and in 1973 against Leeds United. This Sunderland team has the 'Team of all Talents plus some members of the team who shocked the nation by beating the mighty whites (Leeds) in the 1973 FA Cup Final, in particular the Goalkeeper who made two amazing saves, the captain of that team and the goal scoring hero, Ian Porterfield.

The Directors of the club were very wealthy, one was a Ship Builder and the other was a Coal Miner and when they took over Sunderland they bought up all the finest Scottish talent they could find and that is why the team of all talents was predominantly Scottish and that is reflected throughout the team as well.

Lets have a look at the Sunderland team. Please note that this may not be the final Sunderland team but it is very close to it.

Chairman: Robert Thompson (wealthy Shipbuilder)

Managing Director: Samuel Tyzack (wealthy Coalminer)

Manager: Tom Watson (The most successful manager of Sunderland and manager of the team of all talents)

I think, for a non-Sunderland (I presume!) you've made excellent choices here

There is one glaring omission though.

You very much need to include Raich Carter. Certainly Sunderland's finest pre-WWII player and arguably the greatest ever to play for Sunderland (though Charlie Hurley would justifiably contest that one).

He was a forward. Ice cool, impeccable control, either foot, great vision, complete forward.

More description in Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raich_Carter

Amongst his many admirers was the great Stanley Matthews, who said about him "I felt [he] was the ideal partner for me... Carter was a supreme entertainer who dodged, dribbled, twisted and turned, sending bewildered left-halves madly along false trails. Inside the penalty box with the ball at his feet and two or three defenders snapping at his ankles, he'd find the space to get a shot in at goal... Bewilderingly clever, constructive, lethal in front of goal, yet unselfish. Time and again he'd play the ball out wide to me and with such service I was in my element."[3]

I'd suggest positionally, his main position should be ST, with AMC but much lower capability e.g. Awkward.

I'd give him decent strength & jumping stats as well, he was quite powerful. A rare combination of a powerful man with a good touch.

Please do let me know if you want me to review any of the players you've done.

[Fenech]

I think, for a non-Sunderland (I presume!) you've made excellent choices here

There is one glaring omission though.

You very much need to include Raich Carter. Certainly Sunderland's finest pre-WWII player and arguably the greatest ever to play for Sunderland (though Charlie Hurley would justifiably contest that one).

He was a forward. Ice cool, impeccable control, either foot, great vision, complete forward.

More description in Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raich_Carter

I'd suggest positionally, his main position should be ST, with AMC but much lower capability e.g. Awkward.

I'd give him decent strength & jumping stats as well, he was quite powerful. A rare combination of a powerful man with a good touch.

Please do let me know if you want me to review any of the players you've done.

Thanks I really appreciate your feedback on Sunderland and if you wish to review any player in particular, just let me know, I am always open to new expertise and opinions.

I am non sunderland! But I found them very interesting to research. I never realised they were such a big club. The team of all talents they really were.

Raich Carter is there. (The Great Horatio)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-raich-carter-1442249.html

[Fenech]

Hi Fenech, thanks for your earlier reply. I didn't realise you'd already done Sunderland, I'd obviously missed them in the long thread.

Your research looks really good and you've generally got the spirit of the player.

I'll suggest some modifications you might want to consider, I know a fair bit about this guy due to years of tales from my Dad who watched him at Roker Park.

1. Increase significantly his corners and crossing, he could put the ball right on the head of a Centre-Forward. Back in the day, we had a donkey CF called Dickie Davies but boy could he head a ball. One season he finished top scorer and there was a saying that Shack used Dickie Davies's head to score goals.

(btw, this is not the same Dickie Davies of World of Sport fame )

2. Not a defensive player I don't think. So you could ease right down on Marking, Tackling.

3. Mentality, I would go way way down on Aggression & Bravery - he wasn't that kind of player at all.

4. Creativity and Flair are very much the ones to keep at 20 . Decisions - I would nudge down a few points, maybe to about 11-12. This man was the Clown Prince of Soccer, not the architect or the musical conductor like Cruyff was. Shack had the ability to be really frustrating I'm sure!

5. Nudge teamwork up, he wasn't totally selfish, probably to about 10. Work rate I would bring down, to about 8-12.

6. I don't think he was especially known for pace and fitness so I'd significantly bring those down. However, I'd push balance up to an outstanding level. Probably worth keeping acceleration reasonably high even if you bring pace down significantly.

7. Positions: I'd include at high level AM®, M® and M(L)

8. Feet: Make sure he has two-good feet - I'm sure he wasn't a one-footed player.

9. I don't know what preferred moves you have but I'd suggest dribble down left, dribble down right, and possibly killer balls.

Really, anything that makes him the wizardry trickster that he was, though he wasn't, I don't think, a power-player of the modern type nor was he an all-rounder. He was a maverick and technical genius and this is what needs to come across here IMO.

I'll have a look at the team list later.

Hi Lord Rowell,

I have taken on board all your suggestion regarding this tactical genius and made some adjustments.

I have updated the screenshot so please take another look at it and we can go from there.

Did your dad talk about the penalty, did he really run from the half way line, stop and then back heel the ball into the net? What a legend!

I really like this player, he must of been a lot of fun to watch, don't think there has been any like him since?

Did he walk the ball towards the goal, then sit on the ball at the goal line, before heading it into an empty net, just before the defenders could catch up with him?

Did he really play one twos with the corner flags?

He was really a Clown, Is it true he wasn't well respected by the FA or his fellow professionals?

The FA were not impressed and he was seldom picked for England because of his antic upsetting the FA establishment, on one of the few occasions he was picked for England, he scored a goal against Germany by chipping the ball into the net. His curtailed international career owes much to England selectors like the one who refused to pick him, "because we play at Wembley stadium, not the London Palladium."

[Lord Rowell]

Thanks I really appreciate your feedback on Sunderland and if you wish to review any player in particular, just let me know, I am always open to new expertise and opinions.

Raich Carter is there. (The Great Horatio)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-raich-carter-1442249.html

I missed him on that list, due to your use of creative names

Tbh I'd just call him Raich Carter, that's what he's known as by most people but that's up to you.

OK, I'll write you a few pointers on one or two more players, little subtleties that you might not be aware of.

Also, if you do want one more, there's a strong case for Gary Rowell (see my username ) and Niall Quinn - the man who not only formed a lethal partnership with Kevin Phillips but also brought together the Drumaville Consortium to take over and run the club at a time we were on our knees.

[Fenech]

I missed him on that list, due to your use of creative names

Tbh I'd just call him Raich Carter, that's what he's known as by most people but that's up to you.

OK, I'll write you a few pointers on one or two more players, little subtleties that you might not be aware of.

Also, if you do want one more, there's a strong case for Gary Rowell (see my username )

Hi Lord Rowell,

I like to be creative! I appreciate that. His full name is in his information screen.

I think he earned that nickname. If I was to add Gary Rowell, who would you take out?

Thanks for the information, and I will take everything on board and make any necessary changes.

[Lord Rowell]

So, here are just a few comments on a very small selection of your chosen Sunderland squad, with some details you might not be aware of.

1. Jimmy Montgomery

You've probably got most of it. Brilliant reflexes, good in the air, mostly great all round keeper.

I said "mostly". What isn't well know is that he was short-sighted. This made him very vulnerable to long shots as he'd see the ball too late and it would whizz past him from long range without him having a clue about it!

I'm not quite sure how you'd make this happen with his attributes. Possibly low positioning, or anticipation perhaps?

2. Charlie Hurley

Phenomenal player. Came 2nd in the 1963-64 Football Writers Award, only behind Bobby Moore. Considering at that time, Sunderland were in the old 2nd division, it puts that achievement in a very different context.

Main things to include.

- A big man, strong phsyical presence, with great balance and poise

- One of the first CBs here to play the ball out rather than lump it, so he really needs high composure, decisions, passing, technique, first touch, as well as good defensive attributes

- He was the first in the English game to go up to the opposition penalty area for corners and hence to score goals. So, you really want to get this across by giving him attributes that will help him score goals. Anticipation, aggression, and I'd really go against the grain and give him a high finishing attribute

3. Kevin Ball

Captain Fantastic and the classic hard-man. Think Johnny Dexter from Roy of the Rovers, though not as good!

Definitely needs "dives into tackles" as a preferred move - feet first!

You want teamwork, workrate, determination, aggression, strength, stamina, tacking, all those attributes very high. Not pacy, but not slow either.

What you don't want to be high are his ball-playing / technical attributes. He'd be the first himself to admit he was crap. So, technique, passing, first touch should all be very average, about 10-12.

He should also have a very low finishing attribute. The guy couldn't score if you put him 6 yards out and blindfolded the keeper.

[Lord Rowell]

Hi Lord Rowell,

I like to be creative! I appreciate that. His full name is in his information screen.

I think he earned that nickname. If I was to add Gary Rowell, who would you take out?

Thanks for the information, and I will take everything on board and make any necessary changes.

I'm not sure who James Millar is? Do you have a reference?

I know Campbell and Halliday. Both great players.

I think there's an argument for Rowell because he is truly a recent-ish legend up here and you've already got a lot of the late 19th & early 20th Century legends. Hence, I'd take any of the above out.

Here is the man in action, the game that immortalised him up here.

[Fenech]

I'm not sure who James Millar is? Do you have a reference?

I know Campbell and Halliday. Both great players.

I think there's an argument for Rowell because he is truly a recent-ish legend up here and you've already got a lot of the late 19th & early 20th Century legends. Hence, I'd take any of the above out.

Here is the man in action, the game that immortalised him up here.

I'm not sure who James Millar is? Do you have a reference?

I know Campbell and Halliday. Both great players.

I think there's an argument for Rowell because he is truly a recent-ish legend up here and you've already got a lot of the late 19th & early 20th Century legends. Hence, I'd take any of the above out.

Here is the man in action, the game that immortalised him up here.

2. James Millar Scotland International

SAFC Career: 1890 - 96 & 1900 - 04. Apps. 260, Goals 123.

Medals: 1st div 1892, 93, 95 & 1902.

Jimmy Millar jointly holds the record for most title wins whilst playing for Sunderland. He also won 2 Scottish titles and 2 Scottish cup winners medals with Rangers during his spell away from the club. The 11-1 FA cup win against Fairfield in February 1895 saw Jimmy become the first Sunderland player to notch 5 goals in a match. Though not as prolific as his partner Campbell, he also managed double figures in the 6 seasons they played together.

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/s30s/scots.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Millar_(footballer_born_1870)

What position did Gary Rowell play? Who would you leave out of the other sunderland players who played his position?

Because I need a balance in the squad, so e.g. if you add in a central midfielder, I need a central midfielder removed. Although there is flexibility on this, but you know what I mean..

[jbblack86]

never said he owed me anything. This whole thread is about asking for opinions and feedback so I gave mine. The problem is where exactly?

I think the problem is you were being rude calling him stupid and totally uncalled for, I'm not particularly fond of the nicknames but it is Fenech's DB to do as he pleases and in his own vision.

[Lord Rowell]

2. James Millar Scotland International

SAFC Career: 1890 - 96 & 1900 - 04. Apps. 260, Goals 123.

Medals: 1st div 1892, 93, 95 & 1902.

Jimmy Millar jointly holds the record for most title wins whilst playing for Sunderland. He also won 2 Scottish titles and 2 Scottish cup winners medals with Rangers during his spell away from the club. The 11-1 FA cup win against Fairfield in February 1895 saw Jimmy become the first Sunderland player to notch 5 goals in a match. Though not as prolific as his partner Campbell, he also managed double figures in the 6 seasons they played together.

http://www.angelfire.com/sports/s30s/scots.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Millar_(footballer_born_1870)

What position did Gary Rowell play? Who would you leave out of the other sunderland players who played his position?

Because I need a balance in the squad, so e.g. if you add in a central midfielder, I need a central midfielder removed. Although there is flexibility on this, but you know what I mean..

Yes, I understand.

I'd take Millar out, he's the least potent of the 3 I mentioned and you already have another forward from that era.

Gary Rowell is very much a striker - nothing else.

I'd give him attributes of - very good pace, acceleration, off the ball, anticipation, finishing.

Very high composure and penalty taking should = 20. I don't think he ever missed a penalty for us.

Preferred moves, if memory serves, breaks offside trap, possibly also moves into channels.

Also good workrate & teamwork, probably about 13-15.

Sadly, he was injury prone and if your database is going to be realistic you should include this. Injury is what certainly prevented him playing at international level - he had the ability of that I've no doubt.

As you like to be creative, he is often known as Lord Rowell in my home part of the world - though that said I'm sure Gary Rowell would be fine

[Fenech]

yeah, I know, that's the point I was making to Scott or whatever his name is.

Re. Robben and Ribery, that's fair enough, I was just throwing an opinion out there.

Hi Dan,

I welcome all opinions and as in the case of gomez, I will act upon them if necessary.

I will remove all nicknames. I thought it was a good idea but given the reaction, I will now remove them.

I am not unwilling to change things if the general consensus is that it should be... I am happy to take on board everyones suggestions and points of view.

Thanks again for the feedback.

[Fenech]

I think the problem is you were being rude calling him stupid and totally uncalled for, I'm not particularly fond of the nicknames but it is Fenech's DB to do as he pleases and in his own vision.

Thanks for all the support, much appreciated!

[Fenech]

Yes, I understand.

I'd take Millar out, he's the least potent of the 3 I mentioned and you already have another forward from that era.

Gary Rowell is very much a striker - nothing else.

I'd give him attributes of - very good pace, acceleration, off the ball, anticipation, finishing.

Very high composure and penalty taking should = 20. I don't think he ever missed a penalty for us.

Preferred moves, if memory serves, breaks offside trap, possibly also moves into channels.

Also good workrate & teamwork, probably about 13-15.

Sadly, he was injury prone and if your database is going to be realistic you should include this. Injury is what certainly prevented him playing at international level - he had the ability of that I've no doubt.

As you like to be creative, he is often known as Lord Rowell in my home part of the world - though that said I'm sure Gary Rowell would be fine

According to Wikipedia, he could play midfield as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Rowell

ok I will swap millar for gary rowell. No bother!

[Fenech]

[Lord Rowell]

According to Wikipedia, he could play midfield as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Rowell

ok I will swap millar for gary rowell. No bother!

I don't remember him playing midfield, though its possible that after he left Sunderland, his injuries repeated and he lost pace, that he dropped into a deeper role later in his career.

I would keep the spirit of the man though and just have him as a striker.

[Fenech]

[Fenech]

I did have him down as 'dive into tackles'

[Fenech]

I don't remember him playing midfield, though its possible that after he left Sunderland, his injuries repeated and he lost pace, that he dropped into a deeper role later in his career.

I would keep the spirit of the man though and just have him as a striker.

OK that's fine. I will do that. It will be before he got injuries, I believe the first injuries are down to chance more than anything else, but will bear his injury proneness in mind when I do his stats.

[Lord Rowell]

I would significantly boost command of area and leadership, the guy had presence.

Nudge up by 1-2 points the following:

- Handling

- Composure

- Agility

- Balance

- Jumping Reach

Edit: One more thing, he should have very high "Important Matches" as he had his finest hour at the biggest game of all in 1973.

After that you're looking good

[Dcarey2014]

Wolves Update:

I have spent the past few hours on Wolves forums and related blogs, I have posed the question to Wolves fans an got a number of replies, I have also emailed an older gentleman who Wolves fans recommended I contact due to his wealth of knowledge and experience of the club. I have also compiled a preliminary 23 man squad, compiled of names that kept coming up when this question was posed by myself and in the past by others.

Wolves 25 Man Squad

GK

Bert Williams

Matt Murray?

DF

Stan Cullis

Frank Munro

Billy Wright (also CF) and Captain

Derek Parkin

Bill Slater (also Inside FW)

Joleon lescott

Geoff Palmer

Alex Rae

Andy Thompson

MF

Kenny Hibbitt

Dave Wagstaffe

Johnny Hancocks

Peter Knowles

Ron Flowers

Mike Bailey

Robbie Dennison

Norman Deeley

ST

Steve Bull

John Richards

Derek Dougan

Peter Boradbent

[Fenech]

I would significantly boost command of area and leadership, the guy had presence.

Nudge up by 1-2 points the following:

- Handling

- Composure

- Agility

- Balance

- Jumping Reach

Edit: One more thing, he should have very high "Important Matches" as he had his finest hour at the biggest game of all in 1973.

After that you're looking good

His important matches is 20. lol

[Fenech]

Wolves Update:

I have spent the past few hours on Wolves forums and related blogs, I have posed the question to Wolves fans an got a number of replies, I have also emailed an older gentleman who Wolves fans recommended I contact due to his wealth of knowledge and experience of the club. I have also compiled a preliminary 23 man squad, compiled of names that kept coming up when this question was posed by myself and in the past by others.

Wolves 25 Man Squad

GK

Bert Williams

Matt Murray?

DF

Stan Cullis

Frank Munro

Billy Wright (also CF) and Captain

Derek Parkin

Bill Slater (also Inside FW)

Joleon lescott

Geoff Palmer

Alex Rae

Andy Thompson

MF

Kenny Hibbitt

Dave Wagstaffe

Johnny Hancocks

Peter Knowles

Ron Flowers

Mike Bailey

Robbie Dennison

Norman Deeley

ST

Steve Bull

John Richards

Derek Dougan

Peter Boradbent

Thanks, this gives me a great base to work on when I come to do Wolves.

That was fast! Much Appreciated .

[Fenech]

I would significantly boost command of area and leadership, the guy had presence.

Nudge up by 1-2 points the following:

- Handling

- Composure

- Agility

- Balance

- Jumping Reach

Edit: One more thing, he should have very high "Important Matches" as he had his finest hour at the biggest game of all in 1973.

After that you're looking good

[Dcarey2014]

Thanks, this gives me a great base to work on when I come to do Wolves.

That was fast! Much Appreciated .

No Problem! Another name coming out the forums now is Malcolm Finlayson (GK) so that's number 24 sorted. You'll probably need 3 Keepers since although they regard Matt Murray (GK) to be somewhat a legend of the club, his injury proneness will be very high. Iv'e listed Peter Broadbent as ST, since that's where they are all placing him in their top 11 and his goal return for Wolves seems very good, however Wiki says he was a midfielder.

Anyway, I'll wait to see if I get a reply from the older Wolves fan, see what he has to say and I'll keep watching the forums. I'll post any further updates tomorrow.

[Fenech]

No Problem! Another name coming out the forums now is Malcolm Finlayson (GK) so that's number 24 sorted. You'll probably need 3 Keepers since although they regard Matt Murray (GK) to be somewhat a legend of the club, his injury proneness will be very high. Iv'e listed Peter Broadbent as ST, since that's where they are all placing him in their top 11 and his goal return for Wolves seems very good, however Wiki says he was a midfielder.

Anyway, I'll wait to see if I get a reply from the older Wolves fan, see what he has to say and I'll keep watching the forums. I'll post any further updates tomorrow.

Great Stuff! I'm looking forward to the updates. They are definitely coming back! Wright was an amazing player. And Stan Culis too.