Something is horribly wrong with my team management

[Miravlix]

Team: Barcelona

First year: I win everything except a few unimportant matches, Messi and everyone else plays like a dream, got Messi to score something like 50 goals.

Second year: I still manage to win everything and even get Barca B turned around so they get back into 2nd Spanish Liga after getting relegated the first year, but now Messi isn't scoring and the team isn't playing amazing football, sometimes they even struggle.

Third Year: At first everything looks fine, doing well in friendlies and the early games, but I choose not to put my U19 team in the U19 group play, just to find out that the U19 manager doesn't arrange friendlies instead, so I reload back to before season start, only real change is saying yes to the U19 group, but now my team is struggling in the friendlies, I still win a few matches, but the game is not working anymore, no beautiful football being played creating chances, Messi can't hit the empty goal from inside the six yard box. It's like every player has some huge negative factor impacting their performance, the defense is very shaky, offense is horrible.

I play one match without the first team players in attack and take my up and coming players and they play absolutely amazing. Most players get 8+ score. Since my defense was the first team players that was still a bit shaky.

Pique often get nervous and instead of regularly gaining +.1 every few minutes during the match, he is struggling at or below the start rating.

Messi, Naymar, Sanchez, Shaqiri all drop below start rating regularly, unless they score.

I have this match against some Eastern European team in Champs League. 2-0 ahead and bam Javier gets two yellow cards in the first 30 minutes, second red card in my 3 years as manager (appealed the first one against a Wonderkid DC that didn't deserve it and won). Took out my striker, so Busques could take the DM position Javier red card made empty, but now everything is breaking apart, chances happens way to much and I choose max defense to survive until half time. After half time I return to my fluid strategy, moving Messi from AMC to striker and I feel my team talk worked (green markings on players, even Javier damn him), but the defense is shaky and bam they end up winning 3-2.

What have I done wrong to take an amazing team and totally ruin them over two years? Two years where I've won absolutely everything that can be won.

Morale is always Superb for all players, Report Happiness bar is full for most players all the time, no one seems tired. Many of them is gaining me as Favored Personnel. I try to be positive in press conferences and positive/demanding in team talks. I'm not afraid of telling the team they played like crap and they all respond with fired-up.

Training seems rock solid too, the players is in top shape.

What part of management strategy am I missing here?

This is my latest save, I've restarted a few times learning how to play, but it's kinda normal that the team stops gaining form rating in matches, first the attack starts to only gain from goals, with defense starting to winning all the Player of the Match awards and now this year both offense and defense don't gain +.1 regularly, I think they gain a +.1 here and then loss -.1 there, so they don't get horrible 4 or 5 scores, they end with 6 or better score, so I can't use talks to say they are doing bad, until the last year where they now start to get more -.1's than +.1 during a game and I'm starting to see 6.4, 6.5 from players that should get 7+ rating without scoring a goal.

[Rob4590]

Well your management appears Ok (off the field) - so therefore logically there is something in your tactics that used to work well, but now isn't doing so well.

So the questions would be:

1) Have you changed anything in your tactics since year 1?

2) If you have - then maybe change back (At least temporarily) to see if you have tweaked one thing too many and caused yourself problems

or If you haven't - then you need to look at what is actually going wrong in games - are they parking the bus - with you dominating possession, having loads of shots and then getting hit on the counter? If so - maybe drop to a lower mentality and try and persuade them to come out and play a bit more to give you more space.

If something different to that, then you'll need to post your tactics so that people can help

[Miravlix]

Well your management appears Ok (off the field) - so therefore logically there is something in your tactics that used to work well, but now isn't doing so well.

Oh, god I was hoping you wouldn't say that. Because I just can't explain this as a strategy issue.

1) Have you changed anything in your tactics since year 1?

Minor refinements as player changes and stuff, but naah it's a classic 4-3-3 Barca style.

2) If you have - then maybe change back (At least temporarily) to see if you have tweaked one thing too many and caused yourself problems

or If you haven't - then you need to look at what is actually going wrong in games - are they parking the bus - with you dominating possession, having loads of shots and then getting hit on the counter? If so - maybe drop to a lower mentality and try and persuade them to come out and play a bit more to give you more space.

If something different to that, then you'll need to post your tactics so that people can help

I added 4-1DM-1-3-1, because of the disappointing second year performance, but using Messi as AMC hasn't helped. I still have my old 4-3-3.

This latest match, nope not parking the bus, they are owning me in possession and constantly running straight through my formerly rock solid defense. Since the game crashed at the end of the match (Wouldn't end it, all I could do was quit game). I replayed with my 4-3-3 match ended 1-1, but again my defense was carved up and it was only by luck I didn't loss, in the other end I got a ton of chances, but even Messi with the ball in the six yard box couldn't hit the goal.

Edit: The after match report also say I should win the matches with more goals than I do and I can only agree this team if the players wasn't broken should win these matches with 5+ goals.

And Do remember I said I used younger players with the strategy and got better performance, like the old guard is jaded with the tactics and doesn't feel like performing.

Also, this is not just one match, it's all matches so far this season, Champ, Varius finals, league. My U19 team is scoring 6+ goals with the same tactics controlled by my U19 manager.

[Miravlix]

Did some more digging checking the latest opponent in the squad depth screen compared to my best players.

The best of them is 2 star players, but most is below two star. I'm not just a little better, I'm 3+ stars better on all positions.

My team has to be performing at more than 50% reduced ability to be the least bit challenged by them.

Edit: They run straight through my defense and score, fooling my world class defenders like they were 15 year old half star regens. In the other end my world class attacker get through their defense and is one on one with the gk and just can't score and it isn't the GK that's the problem, instead they shoot wildly past the goal, some of the shots is more dangerous for my own GK than theirs.

Ohmfg. The guy scoring against me was on a 500+ goal drought. They weren't just bad, they were horrible in every freaking match of the season, except the one against me.

Edit 2 or 3 or something: One of the leagues worst defences, description for the team I got beat 3-2 by and I got my goals from set pieces... Post match press. I'm just going to go sit in a corner and cry a little.

Edit 10: Win Ratio 83% (2+ the beginning of third seasons.) 384 goals, 93 Con. I think tactically I'm really really good, but I seem to have run the team into the ground somehow.

[Rob4590]

I think you need to post your tactics more fully then - cos there has to be something gone wrong somewhere. The only other explanation would be that your team talks are not helping them?

[Miravlix]

4-3-3 barca style, the thread about it is active at the moment.

Jodi Alba CWB/A

Pique BPD/D

Whoever CD/D

Daniel CWB/A

DM Busques DLP/D or DM Javier BWM/D if I feel I need a bone breaker/cleaner for more effective defense.

AP/A DLP/S Inestie, Xavi, Cesc and new faces.

IF/S Naymar IF/A Shaqir

Something/A Messi

Control/Balanced - Retain, Sometimes Shorter Passing, Ball in Box, Play Out Of Defense, Drill Crosses. Allow Naymar and Shaqir to swap (both is either footed), been using stay on feet, since I got 2 yellow cards pr. game without it.

Thats it, nothing fancy. PI is distribute to defender from the keeper. (That doesn't actually work anymore, now the AI harresses my defenders so I can't get my GK to distribute to them, so he hoof's it a lot instead)

I get a ton of 100% chances created, but no one can hit the goal or pass the GK.

They walk/dribble/pass through my defense like it wasn't even there. Just drew a match 3-3 against a 1-2 star team and I was extremely lucky I got my goals from set pieces, they scored by completely and utterly outplaying my world class defense.

The game's calculation expected me to win with 4+ goals at least,, but Messi is a shadow of himself and is performing way way below his skills, constantly passing to opponents feet, unable to pass the GK to score, losing the ball almost every time he attempts to do anything.

[Rob4590]

Have you tried changing the tempo? Control is still a fairly fast, direct attack, and I find that if I have lots of possession / shots without scoring, I can usually sort that out mid way through a game by lowering the tempo. It tends to reduce my possession %, but gives me BETTER chances against a packed defence.

[Miravlix]

The small teams is dominating me, I have less than 50% possession now days, because everyone keep losing the ball.

I also tried Counter, so I have tried to play slower and it makes no difference, as long as my team keep losing the ball it doesn't really matter what speed they pass it around.

Getting completely desperate, so going to put all of my world class players in the freezer and play with B team/U19 players for 2-3 matches, then try the A team players again.

Edit: I don't think any of the players has had a vacation in the 3 years I've managed them, if they aren't playing for me, they are at International games.

[Reedy_1988]

With Barca i feel if you're getting 'found out' or teams are 'parking the bus' you may be best of switching to a less attacking mentality to start the matches, sit further back, pass and move the ball around waiting for the chance to make the killer pass thus goading the other team to break shape in order to win possession then that's your que to attack them at break neck speed.

[Miravlix]

They are not parking the bus, they did that in the early season, but now they are pressing me into the ground.

[ThunderZtormDK]

Your players have won everything and are bored brainless playing regular games. Get some new players into the starting 11, rotate heavily so that they know they're not guaranteed a spot.

How's their body language - complacent, uninterested etc, or proper fired up and motivated?

[Dr. Hook]

They are not parking the bus, they did that in the early season, but now they are pressing me into the ground.

If they are pressing you into the ground, playing slower won't help. You need to keep it moving and away from the closing down. S0, you could try a quick tempo with very short passing and a relatively compact shape. Make the pressers chase the ball. A defensive mentality can be good here. As Barca you have great players, so turn the pitch into a giant piggy in the middle game. I am not saying this will solve problems, but it's worked for me more often than not when faced with high pressing teams (which even until fairly recently gave me all sorts of trouble).

[Miravlix]

Your players have won everything and are bored brainless playing regular games. Get some new players into the starting 11, rotate heavily so that they know they're not guaranteed a spot.

How's their body language - complacent, uninterested etc, or proper fired up and motivated?

Thats what I'm thinking too, but Messi is a world class self motivator, he regularly end with Motivated and even fired-up without me doing anything, but he is still hitting his passes into the opponents (enough that the assman notes it in the report). He is not playing well at all.

Xavi and Iniesta is professionnel so always motivated, rest of the team only has a few trouble spot like Cesc and Javier that can hit complacent if the game is way to easy.

[Miravlix]

I gave everyone a long vacation, but it didn't work.

Champ League game home after I qualified. Won 2-0, but Naymar, Messi and Shaqiri all dropped to 6.4 scores. Only because Naymar made a key pass to Daniel (CWB/A) that allowed him to score did Naymar get better score.

Pique in defense also dropped a few .1's in score against a better team that would have cost me the game most likely, so I choose We won, but you played poorly, since they did and now I have a squad riot on my hands. around 50% was green and 50% red in response to that team talk.

I guess it in game logic isn't a morale/effort issue and I just have to accept they play poorly and say they did good.

I don't know what to do, not much point in starting a new save as I don't know why I've run the team into the ground and all my efforts in making the players play better is not accepted by the games logic, so the players is all getting unhappy because even while they play like crap, it's not recognized by the game.

[Miravlix]

*sigh* I go on a 3-4 match vacation and let my assman do whatever he wants while I'm gone.

And everyone magically stops getting low scores in those matches. The worst score was 6.8. Though Messi didn't score a single goal in those matches.

[Rob4590]

And that kinda proves that it is YOU doing something wrong - most likely IN MATCH. (I'm assuming you set your AM to use your tactic to start with?) If so - then he is either giving much better team talks than you, or he is making better, more logical changes part way through the match if things aren't going as well as they could be.

[Miravlix]

And that kinda proves that it is YOU doing something wrong - most likely IN MATCH. (I'm assuming you set your AM to use your tactic to start with?) If so - then he is either giving much better team talks than you, or he is making better, more logical changes part way through the match if things aren't going as well as they could be.

Uhm, dude, what a weird response, I didn't post in the BUG forum, I posted in the tactics forum, so OF COURSE the post is a QUESTION about how to improve my management. There is no need to weirdly point it out.

Your post is a complete waste of anyones time, uselessly bumping a topic without adding to it.

[llama3]

Uhm, dude, what a weird response, I didn't post in the BUG forum, I posted in the tactics forum, so OF COURSE the post is a QUESTION about how to improve my management. There is no need to weirdly point it out.

Your post is a complete waste of anyones time, uselessly bumping a topic without adding to it.

He has made specific suggestions regarding what choices the AM may be making better than you are. Please watch the tone mate.

[JOSEPH!]

Miravlix, are you able to post some screen shots? Perhaps examples of where your team is being "...run straight through..." and the opposition are "...fooling my world class defenders like they were 15 year old half star regens...".

I appreciate your frustration, especially after a couple of very successful seasons, but fully understanding the problem through text alone is difficult. People invariably put their own 'spin' on what is happening (I find that people, including myself, are naturally defensive of their own tactics at times and inevitably distort factual events to change emphasis of any tactical shortcomings - this is not a personal attack on you rather a general comment).

Screen shots provide anyone willing to help with factual evidence. They show us exactly what is happening and allow us to make our own suggestions and conclusions. When information is reported through someone then it can be difficult to decipher exactly what the problem is.

I guarantee that screen shots, with factual unbiased captions/elaborations on what the problem is will give detailed, helpful and constructive feedback.

[RonnySanchez]

Do you always play Control/Balanced? In every match?

My experience of the game is that you need to be responsive to the on field happenings. If by playing control/balanced style you can’t achieve your primary goal (possession, nice football and victories or whatever) then you need to change it.

If you were good in the first season, and not so good in the second, and even worse in the third, then it is because you failed to adapt/change your tactic according to your primary goal (possession, nice football and victories). But, BUT it also so that you might have got away with it if, IF you were masterful in the art of motivating and man management. In this sub forum "Tactics and training" I think that the majority of the master tacticians as well as the rest of the visitors and contributors to this forum are generally average or below par when it comes to man management and team motivation as problems are often solved by changing and adapting the tactic.

You don't seem to be awful with man management but you do not seem to be masterful either so as your players get overconfident and complacent coupled with the pressure to achieve has obviously led to some kind of vicious cycle where they don't perform as the could and should. For me it is harder to improve my teams performance by some motivational stuff and mind games so when i see that they don't perform as i expect, i tweak the tactic and/or change players.

I never change my personal goals, I always strive to keep my vision but I reevaluate my approach to it from game to game and from season to season and I let my ass man to do the team talks and I offload unhappy players in the very split-second they show that unhappiness to me or the press. Of course I see the players as only instruments for achieving my own success which is not that humanely and it is not how it works (or should work) in real life but this is a game.

[Miravlix]

Each season Messi has been a little worse, 3rd season I got several press messages about his goal drought.

It's now between 3rd and 4th season and Messi is called in for a few national friendlies, but when the South American competition starts Messi is no longer part of the national team.

He is happy, has perfect mood all his visible attributes is fine, he hasn't had a single injury in the 3 seasons, but he plays like complete crap for me and now isn't even good enough for the Argentinian national team.

So can we stop with the silly arguments that it's my ON PITCH tactics that ruins him and try to figure out what's really wrong?

[JOSEPH!]

To do so we need to see your on pitch tactics. Any chance of a screen shot or two?

[llama3]

Each season Messi has been a little worse, 3rd season I got several press messages about his goal drought.

It's now between 3rd and 4th season and Messi is called in for a few national friendlies, but when the South American competition starts Messi is no longer part of the national team.

He is happy, has perfect mood all his visible attributes is fine, he hasn't had a single injury in the 3 seasons, but he plays like complete crap for me and now isn't even good enough for the Argentinian national team.

So can we stop with the silly arguments that it's my ON PITCH tactics that ruins him and try to figure out what's really wrong?

The game does not just break players - post your teams tactics and we can end this charade.

[llama3]

Thread closed.